Why is tuned E30 so slow? And other questions (concerning sport cat, etc)

[spencer30]

Do yourself a favour and forget 0-60 times......0-100 is much more of an indicator. 

Forget them both. If you can't maintain corner speed, or get enough acceleration in gear then you will get eaten.

In gear torque figures are much more important than outright power, for good lap times and driveability.

If are talking lap times then in gear torque figures arent as important as you should be in the power band all the time....if you take an Integra Type R for example it has no torque to speak of but its exceptional round a lap, partly due to it's chassis but you can keep it on the boil most of the time. F1 cars also have little torque as do most modern touring cars. You're right about maintaining speed round corners but that's obvious. I was trying to answer the question which referred more to the straight line capability of both cars. I was trying to say that pure 0-60 times can be misleading - If you look at pure 0-60 times something like a Lotus Elise will post a similar time to 60 as a BMW M3...but then by 100mph the M3 has shown its muscle ,just as an example. Its probably why Evo magazine has 0-100 times as well as 0-60 times. 
I do agree though focusing on pure straight line speed is a bit pointless, its the other things that matter to me....

[Hurdy]

Hi, Hurdy! 

Thank you for taking your time with my questions, I really appreciate that! 

1)
Many questions because it is a big thing for me, this Stage 2 tuning (also, very expensive). Moreover, I am so seldom here on the forum, so once I am here I take the opportunity to ask as much as possible! 

2)
I've had the car on the dyno. That happened after I had a small crash (I crashed into a lorry) in November and my water leaked, eventually had to replace the front bumper, the hood, some other parts. After that I went to Oettinger to have the 300/400 soft installed again, but the car did not feel as explosive as before the crash. I had talks with VW garage that fixed the car, I had talks with Oettinger, they talked with each other. I went to Oettinger and they again installed the soft, and then we went on the dyno for race cars that run on slicks (I did not know about that before we went there). The rollers on the dyno were therefore clean, shiny, even metal, and my wheels slipped a bit during the test, so only showed 290hp, and no torque curve (dyno was old, I guess). At least I have 290hp, though I don't know if that means in the engine or on the wheels.
Once I do Stage 2 I'll find real dyno, with rollers good for normal road tyres, and do the test.

3)
Those 1,2,3 points you mention, they will materialize even without sport cat?

4)
I've done above 258 on speedo in France last year, on original 230hp.    But now with lowered and hard KW V2 I am afraid to go above 240 on German autobahns, for fear something will fall off.  You have -30mm as well, don't you? I wonder how you drive.
In fact, I once had 2 passengers, and when turning to the left on a side road, over a smallish curb (maybe 7 centimeters high and with soft edge), my front right wheel touched the arch and bent the metal out, now I have to repaint the whole wing. 

You may be faster than RS, because you have DSG and because you are the ambassador of tuned E30s.  Don't you have 500Nm under the bonnet, LSD, weight reductions, etc? I am not that advanced.

5)
I somehow understand the advantages of bigger bore pipes and clearer cross-section of the cat, but realistically, how do I get those 330/460 WITHOUT the sports cat, while the guys here, who have full Millteks, get the same numbers?
And if I then later put in sports cat I'll see even better throttle response and more power, is that what you are saying?

6)
Can I ask another question? What do you think about only installing rear arb (the car is jiggly at the front as it is, do not want to make it worse with bigger front arb)? Do you know if Eibach is thicker than what is originally put on E30?

Hi again Peskarik.

Points 1,2 and 3 will be there, but will not be as pronounced without the sports cat. I would say that you would be a good 10ps down without it and this would be throughout the rev range. Similarly you will have a slightly reduced torque figure.

I am probably lowered a good 30mm and I drive exactly the same as I did before lowering. Unfortunately here in the UK we aren't allowed to hit those top speeds unless we are on a private runway

Yes I have the DSG, with the DSG map, weight reductions and have over 500nm flowing through the car but don't yet have the Quaife on (soon though )

Installing just an uprated rear ARB is fine as long as it isn't on the stiffest setting (Most ARB's have 3 setting points - soft medium and "OMG I lost my teeth" ) Eibach from memory are 25mm solid bars and the ED30 are smaller (22mm from memory) so it should help things. Bare in mind that the Eibach ARB's are quite a bit heavier than stock - you can get lighter, stiffer ones than OEM.

HTH

[Hurdy]

Do yourself a favour and forget 0-60 times......0-100 is much more of an indicator. 

Forget them both. If you can't maintain corner speed, or get enough acceleration in gear then you will get eaten.

In gear torque figures are much more important than outright power, for good lap times and driveability.

If are talking lap times then in gear torque figures arent that important as you should be in the power band all the time....if you take an Integra Type R for example it has no torque to speak of but its exceptional round a lap. You're right about maintaining speed round corners but that's obvious. I was trying to answer the question which referred more to the straight line capability of both cars. I was trying to say that pure 0-60 times can be misleading - If you look at pure 0-60 times something like a Lotus Elise will post a similar time to 60 as a BMW M3...but then by 100mph the M3 has shown its muscle ,just as an example. Its probably why Evo magazine has 0-100 times as well as 0-60 times. 

The best guideline for outright power is the 30mph to 130mph run. Unfortunately it is rarely done apart from the odd trackday shootouts.

[Peskarik]

Which would be lighter stiffer rear arb?

I thought Eibach was fit-and-forget, with only one setting.
Neuspeed has 3 settings, but then you have to lubricate joints from time to time or something (that is what I heard). Plus it is quite expensive.

Did you mean Neuspeed arb, Hurdy, or something else? If something else, would you direct me to the place where I can buy it?

[Hurdy]

Which would be lighter stiffer rear arb?

I thought Eibach was fit-and-forget, with only one setting.
Neuspeed has 3 settings, but then you have to lubricate joints from time to time or something (that is what I heard). Plus it is quite expensive.

Did you mean Neuspeed arb, Hurdy, or something else? If something else, would you direct me to the place where I can buy it?

I have an Autotech rear ARB which is stiffer and lighter than the OEM version. They aren't cheap!

I have to say that I have had some issues with mine, but they are sorted now (broken brackets) with stronger brackets supplied by Autotech.

[Peskarik]

Which would be lighter stiffer rear arb?

I thought Eibach was fit-and-forget, with only one setting.
Neuspeed has 3 settings, but then you have to lubricate joints from time to time or something (that is what I heard). Plus it is quite expensive.

Did you mean Neuspeed arb, Hurdy, or something else? If something else, would you direct me to the place where I can buy it?

I have an Autotech rear ARB which is stiffer and lighter than the OEM version. They aren't cheap!

I have to say that I have had some issues with mine, but they are sorted now (broken brackets) with stronger brackets supplied by Autotech.

Damn! 
If something goes bust - I am totally lost. In terms of practical, hands-on knowledge, I know next to nothing about cars.  :embarassed:
That is why I thought about Eibach. So it is heavier somewhat, that will not have any significant effect, will it?

[Hurdy]

All weight will have some effect on the car. With the ARB's you are talking about 4kg extra weight over stock and very low down on the car, so it wouldn't make too much difference.

[Peskarik]

All weight will have some effect on the car. With the ARB's you are talking about 4kg extra weight over stock and very low down on the car, so it wouldn't make too much difference.

Muchas gracias, amigo!