Author Topic: Odd idle/stalls when ISV oil breather connected/disconnected?!  (Read 5080 times)

Offline mookie

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Prior to today, my valver was running just fine. I have had a stalling issue that I seemed to cure by adjusting the idle screw on the throttle body and bringing the idle from around 900/950 to probably around 1050 - been driving and starting pretty much trouble free for a couple of weeks now. However I thought it felt a little sluggish and so decided to get the idle and CO set properly using my gastester.

I reduced the idle speed from approx 1100rpm to around 980/1000 rpm (according to the MFA secret function). I stuck the gastester on the tailpipe and found my CO was at almost dead on 1% and so increased it to 2% (give or take 0.01%). At this stage the idle was pretty solid (some very slight movement on the needle, but blink and you'd miss it), engine sounded smooth and healthy etc.

When the car is hot, and at normal running temp, however after reconnecting the coil spade connector and the breather pipe from the ISV, back to the air intake pipe, I get a whole variety of weird things.

At idle, my revs can seem to rapidly twitch between approx 850 and 1100 rpm - as if someone was very delicately feathering the accelerator. If you tap the throttle pedal, the revs will rise and then drop just past idle before climbing back to normal. If you rev it beyond say 3000rpm then it fall to around 500rpm before recovering - do it really hard and the car will come very close to stalling (once or twice it did stall when revved hard to 5000rpm ish). Lastly, I noticed at very low revs, with the clutch on/around the bite point, it will really struggle not to stall, and when reverse parking I stalled it 3 or 4 times when usually I would be able to edge the car backwards. It really feels like it's struggling with reverse gear. I've also noticed that the revs drop very slightly at idle when I switch the headlights on or when the fan kicks in. The wobbly idle (twitch between approx 850 and 1100 rpm) is loads worse with the fan running too.

However! If I disconnect the breather pipe from the ISV and plug up the airbox side, it seems fine. Rev's at idle aren't totally solid, there is still that slight movement on the needle, but reverse and hard revs don't seem to make it want to stall.

ISV seems the target, no? It is buzzing when ignition is turned to position 1, and I have cleaned it out thoroughly with carb cleaner. But the problem persists.

Any clues? If the breather pipe is just routing back to let the engine breath etc, why should it have such an effect when connected to the ISV?

I'm now wondering whether the fact I used the idle screw to keep idle slightly higher than 1000rpm might have disguised the fact the old problem hadn't gone away, and the idle screw was compensating in some way?

Just tried the car again, this time from stone cold.

With the breather pipe disconnected and the airbox plugged, it wouldn't even maintain idle from a start. It would be hesitant to start, get to idle and gradually drop off to around 500rpm before stalling. Did it a couple of times.

I reconnected the breather pipe and the car started and idled OK, but a moderately aggressive rev of the engine and it died. Drove off fine if I didn't rev its tits off, and as an experiment half way up the road I dipped the clutch when the car was revving around 3.5k rpm and the engine stalled again. Continued driving, and I suspect as the engine warmed up by this point the stall issue disappeared. Drove around loads, some of it quite 'enthusiastic', no issues to speak of. Dipping the clutch even at say 5k rpm and the revs drop to just above 1000rpm before settling. Got it home, sat with the car idling, and the slight change in idle speed is noticable - can't be more than a 100 rpm difference but you can see the needle move ever so slightly and the engine noise increases and decreases in pitch. One thing, revving again causes the revs to slightly dip below idle as they fall before recovering. As I say, it only seems to do this at idle not whilst driving (see above for the 5k example).

Is the ISV shafted? It has the part number 037 906 457c.
« Last Edit: 11 January 2009, 19:56 by mookie »

Offline rubjonny

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Re: Odd idle/stalls when ISV oil breather connected/disconnected?!
« Reply #1 on: 12 January 2009, 11:12 »
1st thing, is the idle switch clicking?  also do the problems go away if you leave the isv plumbed in properly but disconnect the red/black wire up by the coil?  Did you 1st disconnect the red/black wire before you fiddled with the idle?
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Offline mookie

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Re: Odd idle/stalls when ISV oil breather connected/disconnected?!
« Reply #2 on: 12 January 2009, 21:23 »
Lookee lookee...

This is what mine looks like - part number 037 906 457c:



As far as I can tell from looking on eBay and google, this is what a KR ISV should look like - part number 035 133 455F:



Mine is off an 8v PB engine, and as such totally unsuitable for a KR. Hopefully explains ALOT!

Offline rubjonny

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Re: Odd idle/stalls when ISV oil breather connected/disconnected?!
« Reply #3 on: 14 January 2009, 09:48 »
i cant see it being that much different though, but if you can get a KR one then it cant hurt to try!  the MK3 ABF one is also suitable, I have one in mine and its listed to fit very late passat KR engines :)
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Offline DAVEMARX

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Re: Odd idle/stalls when ISV oil breather connected/disconnected?!
« Reply #4 on: 14 January 2009, 11:14 »
i had the same problem on my old 8v and got a used 1 from the scrappy of an audi 80...there the same except on the isv label the code ends with c on a golf and a d on an audi.

just cleaned it with carb cleaner and also all the intake pipes and throttle housing my m8 alan came round with a gas tester that measures co as the car seemed a little rich and reset it to run at 1.8
set the idle at 900
 after that the car was friggin awsome the engine note was pure music, the idle was spot on and it went like never before and i managed to upset a fiesta 16v rs turbo with it...well only upto 4th gear as the top end power just goes then on a 8v but i was impressed to say the least.

are fiesta rs's really that sh!t or did i just get a good start. keeps up with a 250 apprilla aswell witch aint to bad.

Offline Conker

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Re: Odd idle/stalls when ISV oil breather connected/disconnected?!
« Reply #5 on: 14 January 2009, 22:44 »
When you say you "disconnected the ISV breather pipe" when setting up the idle, do you mean the actual pipe coming off the ISV itself?  I always thought it was the crankcase breather pipe you disconnected, not the ISV pipe?!?!?  The ISV pipe doesn't go into the airbox, it goes into the air intake pipe. Perhaps someone can confirm, as maybe the initial setup is being done incorrectly?

If we ignore that for now, when my 16v had this problem, I hadn't quite got the sweet-spot of CO2 vs idle screw. After a lot of fiddling, I eventually sorted it out. It sounds like you might have over-leaned it by relying on the gas tester which can be notriously unreliable outside of an MOT station.


Offline Conker

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Re: Odd idle/stalls when ISV oil breather connected/disconnected?!
« Reply #6 on: 20 January 2009, 21:19 »
Any update on this one - I'd be interested in a conclusion to which breather hose you need to disconnect??

Offline danny_p

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Re: Odd idle/stalls when ISV oil breather connected/disconnected?!
« Reply #7 on: 21 January 2009, 01:42 »
 not all isv's are the same some are very diffrent. 

i picked up a random one thinking they would all be close enough  and put it on my ex abf,    it promtly started hunting like hell  put abf one back on and it stoped. 
all the VW's have gone bar 1.

Offline rubjonny

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Re: Odd idle/stalls when ISV oil breather connected/disconnected?!
« Reply #8 on: 22 January 2009, 11:11 »
you disconnect the hose from the front of the block, and point it somewhere it only sucks in clean air.  as for isvs as danny said they arn't all the same but with a bit of trial & error you can find one that works properly.  With some ETKA digging I found that ABF isv will work on a KR 16v, I tried it and yep it works fine :)  This would also mean that in theory a KR one will work on an ABF, but I havent tried this.

I also read somewhere that someone adjusted an ISV they fitted to their ABF by turning a small allen screw in one end.  I've seen the screw mentioned but I've not tried fiddling, if it aint broke dont fix it :)
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Offline Conker

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Re: Odd idle/stalls when ISV oil breather connected/disconnected?!
« Reply #9 on: 22 January 2009, 21:44 »
you disconnect the hose from the front of the block, and point it somewhere it only sucks in clean air. 


Thought so! Glad I've been doing it right. Mookie, by the sounds of it your disconnecting the wrong hose.