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Model specific boards => Golf mk2 => Topic started by: oakgreengolf on 24 November 2008, 19:42

Title: got myself an abf :-)
Post by: oakgreengolf on 24 November 2008, 19:42
Going to be running it for a month or two while I get the golf ready.  The low down torque is great its also nice to have a car starting on the button and running smoothly

(http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w313/richjc4/6396_11.jpg)
Title: Re: got myself an abf :-)
Post by: Diamond Hell on 24 November 2008, 19:49
Class.

Enjoy it in it's original home.

You've also got 280mm front brakes and a cable-change gearbox set up there.  All you need to do is de-integrate the loom and you're laughing.  No immobiliser nonsense, either.

Was that off Autotrader?  I was 'browsing' a couple of days ago and saw a couple of peachy looking ones, ripe for conversion.  :grin:
Title: Re: got myself an abf :-)
Post by: oakgreengolf on 24 November 2008, 20:07
Managed to get it off ebay. No immobiliser that makes things a little easier i guess. I appolagise in advance as i will probably asking a few questions. Is there a guide on here anywhere on what to keep and change?. 280mm have I got these on my valver already?
Title: Re: got myself an abf :-)
Post by: Khare on 24 November 2008, 20:14
no, 16v will have 256mm units.
Title: Re: got myself an abf :-)
Post by: Conker on 24 November 2008, 20:15
Good find.  How much did you pay (unless its a secret!)  ?
Title: Re: got myself an abf :-)
Post by: oakgreengolf on 24 November 2008, 20:18
no secret i dont mind telling  :undecided:

hopfully its a good price

£450 tax and moted
Title: Re: got myself an abf :-)
Post by: Jay on 24 November 2008, 20:23
£450 for a FULL donor car, that's pretty good inc tax and MOT imo.

At least you can use everything and won't have to go hunting around much.

You're current valver probably has 256mm unless it's had the 280mm G60 brakes fitted previously. Maybe some late 16v runout models came with 280mm ?  :huh:
Title: Re: got myself an abf :-)
Post by: oakgreengolf on 24 November 2008, 20:27
Presuming ive the 256mm fitted. I can swap the discs, carriers and calipers over and hey presto 280mm
Title: Re: got myself an abf :-)
Post by: Jay on 24 November 2008, 20:39
Then give me the 256mm setup once you've swapped it over :rolleyes: :tongue:
Title: Re: got myself an abf :-)
Post by: oakgreengolf on 24 November 2008, 20:44
Sounds good ill give you a shout when i'm taking the engine out :laugh: :tongue:
Title: Re: got myself an abf :-)
Post by: Diamond Hell on 24 November 2008, 21:00
even the calipers stay - just the rotors and carriers.

May as well just drop out the subframe and stick the whole lot under the Golf - it's the same part!
Title: Re: got myself an abf :-)
Post by: oakgreengolf on 24 November 2008, 21:10
 :shocked: can i use the steering rack too then as mine leaks. The hubs have 4 studs then  :undecided:
Title: Re: got myself an abf :-)
Post by: Jay on 24 November 2008, 22:05
4? Did you mean 5? :huh:
Title: Re: got myself an abf :-)
Post by: oakgreengolf on 24 November 2008, 22:09
keep my hubs then  :undecided:
Title: Re: got myself an abf :-)
Post by: Mew on 24 November 2008, 22:23
I'm confused, as you 2 seem to be too!

Toledo and golf mk2 hubs are the same, as are the subframes and the wishbones, hence DH saying you may as well drop the whole lot out of the Toledo and whack it in the golf :wink:
Title: Re: got myself an abf :-)
Post by: Diamond Hell on 24 November 2008, 22:25
I'm not confused.

Mew's right - it's ALL Golf2 stuff.

4 stud hubs

Steering rack etc

It 'just bolts right up'.
Title: Re: got myself an abf :-)
Post by: Jay on 24 November 2008, 22:28
I am a bit confused, or at least was.
The hubs have 4 studs then.
I thought he meant 5 stud, unless he's already changed to 5 stud hubs... oh I give up, I'm only going to confuse myself even more  :grin:

Title: Re: got myself an abf :-)
Post by: Rodriguez on 24 November 2008, 22:36
I'm confused, as you 2 seem to be too!

Toledo and golf mk2 hubs are the same, as are the subframes and the wishbones, hence DH saying you may as well drop the whole lot out of the Toledo and whack it in the golf :wink:


Is it really that simple???

Anyone got a link to an ABF conv parts list?  What else would I need on top of a toledo donor??
Title: Re: got myself an abf :-)
Post by: danny_p on 24 November 2008, 23:31
actually it's not so easy. you really want a 9A
Title: Re: got myself an abf :-)
Post by: Diamond Hell on 25 November 2008, 00:10
Is it really that simple???

Anyone got a link to an ABF conv parts list?  What else would I need on top of a toledo donor??

I think Danny and I are changing our line on this.

Fitting an ABF is very very hard.

You should not try it.

You should not buy cars with ABFs in them.

You should not try to fit an ABF into your Golf.

Just leave the ABFs alone, OK.

In all seriousness, you need some smarts and wiring diagrams, in addition to a Toledo.

I can offer neither of these items.

OakGreenGolf - I'll offer you £100 for the wheels if they're straight when you're done....
Title: Re: got myself an abf :-)
Post by: oakgreengolf on 25 November 2008, 05:42
I'm glad thats all cleared up then. My toledo has 4 studs, jays fault he confused me  :laugh:. You say very very hard to do. Can you go into a bit more detail of what i'm getting my self into pleassseee. I see its a cable change box for starters. Ive got ample time to get it done, although 3-4 months would be good. 
Title: Re: got myself an abf :-)
Post by: rubjonny on 25 November 2008, 09:52
280 calipers are thicker than 256, as the 280 disc is thicker. 256 ones will fit 280 carriers but with some pad/disc combos the 256 caliper wont fit over the 280 disc.  You can grind down the slider pins a touch, or use part-worn pads to get around this.
Title: Re: got myself an abf :-)
Post by: Jay on 25 November 2008, 15:15
DH, want to explain why you're changing your mind about ABF's?
Title: Re: got myself an abf :-)
Post by: Mew on 25 November 2008, 15:22
I'm guessing because a fair few people are buying them to put into their golfs, meaning there are less around for him to have a play with. That's how i read it anyway!
Title: Re: got myself an abf :-)
Post by: Diamond Hell on 25 November 2008, 17:17
I'm guessing because a fair few people are buying them to put into their golfs, meaning there are less around for him to have a play with. That's how i read it anyway!

The guy's a mind-reader.

Now leave the engines alone - Danny needs spares and I will in due course!
Title: Re: got myself an abf :-)
Post by: Jay on 25 November 2008, 17:35
and there I was thinking that he would have a technical reason, not a selfish reason  :tongue:
Title: Re: got myself an abf :-)
Post by: sharpie on 25 November 2008, 17:40
funny i was just saying this
Title: Re: got myself an abf :-)
Post by: oakgreengolf on 25 November 2008, 21:06
ok i'm going to start looking for bits for the conversion. Ive got a 4-1 manifold at the mo with a miltec exhaust. I take it i will have clearence issues with this. Having read some previous threads the g60 down pipe is my best as it has the lamba in it.
Title: Re: got myself an abf :-)
Post by: Diamond Hell on 25 November 2008, 21:09
Don't over-intellectualise the metal bits of the conversion - the biggest challenge is the wiring.

Your current exhaust can have a lambda boss welded in - cut out an appropriate boss from another system and weld it into your exhaust, maybe on a cross piece between your secondaries.

Or you can pay some monkey firm to do it for you, if you lack basic mechanic skills, like the ability to weld.
Title: Re: got myself an abf :-)
Post by: oakgreengolf on 25 November 2008, 21:20
welding is not a problem. just read somewhere on here about clearence issues.
Title: Re: got myself an abf :-)
Post by: Conker on 25 November 2008, 22:05
Or you can pay some monkey firm to do it for you, if you lack basic mechanic skills, like the ability to weld.


Do you mean radweld.  I can use radweld.

 :grin:
Title: Re: got myself an abf :-)
Post by: rubjonny on 26 November 2008, 08:33
clearance can be an issue if you have a 4 branch, some seem to fit ok with the tall block, some do not!  You can get round this sometimes with a bit of ultra violence directed at the bulkhead :)
If you can find one the G60 downpipe and cat bypass are a direct fit to a 16v manifold and exhaust system, but if you can weld there is no need to go out of your way to get one.  The 16v downpipe is a bit of a pain though as it has the resonator which means the rack has to be taken off to fit and/or subframe dropped.  But then again if you can weld you could chop it out!
Title: Re: got myself an abf :-)
Post by: ghimph on 26 November 2008, 11:54
So if you wanted to carry over the speedo head possibly A/C etc can you swap the toledo dash including plumbing and loom into the MK2?
Title: Re: got myself an abf :-)
Post by: Diamond Hell on 26 November 2008, 12:29
Probably - not something I've got any interest in - you're starting to remove the Golf2-ness and add far too much weight to the car in that situation.

The standard speedo drives right on the cable-change box, although IIRC you'll need an early 90's Passat speedo cable to drive it.  I've probably got the part number somewhere.
Title: Re: got myself an abf :-)
Post by: ghimph on 26 November 2008, 12:50
Aye, but I was thinking about retaining the ABF management for diagnostic ability etc.
Title: Re: got myself an abf :-)
Post by: Diamond Hell on 26 November 2008, 12:54
Absolutely.

The standard ABF management is as good as it gets.  As I've said on various occasions on this thread, doing the wiring is the tough part, especially from a Toledo, as the loom is all integrated together - it needs to be stripped out.

This requires you to be very methodical and work very carefully.

But you'll get the most benefit and easiest, most reliable power.

About the only nice thing on the Toledo is that there's a big multi-plug on the engine, which means the whole loom can be disconnected from the sensors et al - Golf3 might have this and on Golf3 the loom is a separate unit, too - better get yer ABFs out of Golf3s - they need to die anyway.
Title: Re: got myself an abf :-)
Post by: ghimph on 26 November 2008, 13:17
In the main I don't like the idea of donor cars yet Toledos leave me cold plus I can take up to 10 years off the steering, suspension, brakes etc.
Title: Re: got myself an abf :-)
Post by: oakgreengolf on 26 November 2008, 17:59
Im starting to get a bit concerned about the wiring now its been mentioned a few times  :sad:. Is it plug and play or do the wires literally need to be moved about/ cut etc?.
Title: Re: got myself an abf :-)
Post by: danny_p on 26 November 2008, 18:31
wireing is only hard when you don't have diagrams or pinouts and have to do magor adjustments.   anyway i posted up ALL the infomation required for the abf's enigne loom some time ago.

TBH chances are you don't have to do any wireing all your doing is stripping the lighting loom out. all you need is logic patience and loom tape ,  enjoy
Title: Re: got myself an abf :-)
Post by: Diamond Hell on 27 November 2008, 01:12
Wiring.

M'mmmmm, wiring.

Wiring will be the death of us all.

Except DannyP.  It'll be the Peroxide that gets him.
Title: Re: got myself an abf :-)
Post by: danny_p on 27 November 2008, 02:04
It'll be the Peroxide that gets him.

alto it's tempting there are no plans to play with that stuff again  for a while at least
Title: Re: got myself an abf :-)
Post by: rubjonny on 27 November 2008, 10:14
As said its not too bad, especially since your car is 90spec already.  The lighting part is totally seperate from the engine harness so you just leave the MK2 one in there.  On the engine harness you have plugs F, G1, G2 and S.

S is for the wiper which IIRC has the same plug as the MK2 one, though it might not be quite the right length, worst case chop/splice the MK2 end on there, its only 5 wires and colours are the same. G2 is just MFA/engine sensors, no worries there, F & G1 are for ECU, starter, reverse switch and coil so nothing too much to worry about there either.

You'll have a few extra spare plugs that you wont need, carbon canister, speedo sensor and a few other bits n bobs.  Can just leave em hanging or chop/tape em up if you prefer.

Basically it should just plug in without any messign about, wire lengths are all pretty spot on :)

Main issue is the rev counter, the MK3 gets the signal from the ECU which wont work with the MK2 clocks.  If you want to keep the MK2 clocks you have 2 options, splice in the MK2 coil & TCI setup, or open the MK3 coil and add a wire.  Both of these are in dannys thread :)

I like using the MK2 Coil & TCI as the MK3 coils are a bit of a weak spot, since I decided to completly unwrap the MK3 loom to rip out everything that wasnt required and add MK2 bay loom wiring in to make it a bit neater in regards to wire lengths that option was quite easy for me.

If you want to just plug n play your loom, the mk3 coil mod is probably easier. you can pinch one of the unused wires and use that, or add another wire alongside the MK3 loom.  Plenty of holes in the bulkhead for stuff like this :)

Dont forget to get all the diagnostics wiring from behind the dash, its dead easy to wire in just a live, earth and your diagnostic wire from pin 43 on the ECU.  If your loom has an imobilisor that goes between the ecu diagmostic wire and the plug, the control box also requires an ign live feed from somewhere.

Nick all the junction boxes from above the fusebox, one is for the diagnostics and the others are handy for accessory circuits.