GolfGTIforum.co.uk
General => General discussion => Topic started by: marcus123 on 04 June 2004, 09:46
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sup yall,
this thread has probabaly be done before ???
but im just wandering wat you all thought the best vw golf gti is and a reason why you think its the best?
i own a mk2 16valver, obviously i think this is the best gti that vw have and ever will produce.
my reasons:
*classic looks
*sparkling performance
*great handling
*reliable (well most vws are ;))
i dont think there is another gti that comes close in class apart from maybe the mk1. :-\
what do u lot think? ???
this isnt a thread to cause arguements! >:(
just a nice civilised debate! :D
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The best one i've driven is a MK3 16v. Having said that it's only competition has been a Mk3 8v ::)
I think looks wise the MK2 big bumper 16v is the best, but overall i suppose Golf GTis are all about the legacy of the Mk1. The MK1 GTI pioneered a whole new sector in motoring and was the best in that sector throughout it's life.
I think the mk3 and 4s were better golfs, the mk1 and 2s were better GTIs
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^ my new friend :)
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i think mine is the best :P
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The best one i've driven is a MK3 16v. Having said that it's only competition has been a Mk3 8v ::)
I think looks wise the MK2 big bumper 16v is the best, but overall i suppose Golf GTis are all about the legacy of the Mk1. The MK1 GTI pioneered a whole new sector in motoring and was the best in that sector throughout it's life.
I think the mk3 and 4s were better golfs, the mk1 and 2s were better GTIs
interesting point about mk3's and 4's being better golfs.
but i really think vw lost it when they produce the mk3,
apart from the vr6 i think they are poor, thats where golfs started to lose the essence of really being a gti.
vr6 is a beast tho, very nice :o
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the mark 1 is the best gti - the mark 2 imo comes a close second :)
why?? because they look damn good , their light, their quick and most important their fun.
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well said Vix.
Vw definetely lost the plot with later Golfs..
Too many compromises .
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I don't think vw lost it with the mk3, it was easily the best small hatch available, it's only competition was the 306. It was head and shoulders above escorts and astras etc of the time.
But you're right, mk3 GTIs were a whole different thing to the original concept. I think peoples perception that a mk3 GTI is a poor handling car is exagerated. They are still good cars to drive.
I really must get in a mk2 soon!
The VR6 is an odd car really. I'm not quite sure who it was aimed at or why it was even built. I'm glad it was though.
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i think the vr6 exists for 2 maybe 3 versions.
1.. to make up for the mk3 8v :D
2.. to make a performance car that can keep up. although the mk2 and mk3 16v aren't leagues apart in power other cars had moved on.
3.. to put a v6 out on the road. I'm unsure as to when vw's first v6 was put out in a production car. but it appears as though all the top end models these days are v6 if not v8. (v6 esp. from vw)
I (of course) think the mk3 16v is an underestimated car. Perhaps dogged by the wimpy 8v.
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::)
yeh true they are odd,
but f**kin good cars! :D
back to the debate,
mk2 for president gti, 8)
eventhought the mk1 started the ball rolling you can quite happily say that the mk2 is more refined and a much better option.
the mk2 is everyting that they wanted the mk1 to be :D
the mk3 is everything that we didnt want it to be :D :D
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Good points.
I suppose VW got a bit jeleous of BMW with their v6 3 series 325 ec and wanted a piece of the pie.
MK3 16vs could have been made much faster.
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My favourite GTi is the mk1, I especially love the mk1 cabs (good job really eh !). When I started driving *ahem *cough a good few years ago I really wanted a mk1 golf, not even a GTi just a mk1. I can't even explain why I liked it, I just did. For me the mk1 was the start of the whole GTi/hot hatch phenomenon and the original in anything is more often than not seen as the best, not because of its speed or refinement but just for the reason that it was the first.
Don't get me wrong, I like the whole golf range but big bumper 16v mk2s (in oak green) would be my second choice. One point I will make about the mk3 though is that is was produced in an era when the hot hatch was not a viable option, insurance was high, they got nicked, so VW produced a car that was not to be seen as a hot hatch but would fit into the car market at that time.
Just to finish off, don't forget the mk1 GTi was produced for nearly 20 years :P I rest my case ;D
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MK3 16vs could have been made much faster.
well they already bumped the engine up to 2.0 from 1.8..
i've seen people claim the mk3 16v as detuned so as to not compete too much with the performance of the vr6.. how much truth there is in that i dont know.
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the mk1 is definately the coolest golf , its just a shame there so old now :'( and to get it like a mk2 16v is a fair bit of work i would have thought.
i still want one tho ;D
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i cant live without mod cons.. i've been too spoiled with the cars i've owned i guess..
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I'd have to say the MK1 1.6 GTi in its rawest form. It launched a new era in car history. Everyone jumped on the band wagon. The choices then -
Fiesta Supersport - Looked ok and had a tuned 1300cc lump
XR2 - As above but 1600cc lump
Pugs 205GTi - Took time to compete, but the 1900cc was quick! (dash board fell to bits over bumps!)
As for the MK1 Golf - Classy, fun, fast and sexy. And still is in my eyes.
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I think the MK2 GTi's because MK1 Golfs are gettng rare by the day and parts are getting expensive for these MK1's. :(
MK2 GTi's for me because they aint too expensive, reliable (like all V-dubz) and the cabin space. I can get 3 people in the back without problems and lots of leg room :)
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to be honest i think the mk1 will always have the cult status as being the original Gti. but from the performance and handling aspect the mk2 16v has it all.
a well turned out late 16v will always turns heads in the street
also, its surprising the amount of cars that will move over when they see a mk2 16v sitting behind them on the motorway.
apart from corsa & paxo drivers who dont understand exactly as to what is behind them.
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Good points.
I suppose VW got a bit jeleous of BMW with their v6 3 series 325 ec and wanted a piece of the pie.
MK3 16vs could have been made much faster.
325's were a straight 6 where they not when the Vr came out??
mk3 16v's where de-tuned as they where too close to Vr6 bhp
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A subject very close to my heart ;D
In my personal opinion the best will always be the original - whatever follows on from that will always share its 'motoring DNA' with the original, and it will always only ever be a continual evolution of the car that broke the mold.
The mk1 will offer the most thrills (for the right and wrong reasons), as its the least dilluted car in the range. We all know that as they've got older, the Golf has got bigger, heavier and softer.
Many see this as a bad thing, and slate VW for loosing the plot, but in my opinion, this is not true.
VW were (and still are) very aware that the original 'recipe' of the mark 1 was bang on. If they had their way, they would still be producing a very similar car, and selling millions of them. But the motoring industry has several factors that will drive a products' evolution beyond what the customer simply wants. As many people have said, insurance and safety laws have shaped the way the golf, and every other mass produced car, has evolved.
A lot of people slate the mk 3, which again, in my opinion, is unfair. The Mk3 GTi was a result of VW's desire to coupe a bigger, more comfortable car than the MK2, but under the pressures of making it less desireable to thieves (so that people could actually insure the thing and therefore buy one!) as well as incorporating safety features such as traction control, ABS, side impact bars, airbags etc, and the creature comforts from larger luxury cars such as air con etc, to try and capture sales from people downsizing from luxury cars.
The phrase 'which is the best GTi?' is always going to be an emotional one, as 'best' is subjective - best at what? In terms of driving thrills, its going to be the Mk1. But the Mk1 has awful brakes, and is very old. Best at effortless cruising (undoubtedly a GT benchmark)? A 6 speed Mk4. but they handle like jelly.
Every one has its strengths and weaknesses, and people will always ignore certain aspects of a car to rant on about the good bits!
I'll finish my essay with one final point. Last year Autocar took a Mk 1 (1.8) a Mk2 8v a Mk3 16v and a Mk4 1.8T to a track, to see which was faster.
The result? Lets just say evolution works - The least quick of the day was the Mk1, followed by the Mk2, then the Mk3 with the Mk4 the quickest of the day.
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mk3 16v's where de-tuned as they where too close to Vr6 bhp
there it is again :)
how do you un-de-tune a mk3 16v? :D
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A fair report there.
When people say Golf GTi, the first that comes to my mind is a MK1 Golf. It is the basis of the most successful GTi ever. I think performance is irrelevent in this subject simple because development has gone along way since the first 1.6 GTi (as you mentioned). You now have diesel GTis on the road which will kick my MK2 16v ass. But, when you sit inside one, what do you want? Luxury or enjoyment? I don't think I could hand on heart say that a MK4 Golf would give me that little smile everytime I see another flashing back at me (like when I am in the MK2), a new car is simply to common and to boring.
As I said before it was a easy choice for me to leave my newish Audi 'Grown Up Golf' A3 to take my MK2 16v. I don't regret that. I can change my performance on my MK2 to meet todays demands or I could just leave her alone............
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Good points.
I suppose VW got a bit jeleous of BMW with their v6 3 series 325 etc and wanted a piece of the pie.
MK3 16vs could have been made much faster.
325's were a straight 6 where they not when the Vr came out??
They were indeed. However, you got the idea.
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mk3 16v's where de-tuned as they where too close to Vr6 bhp
there it is again :)
how do you un-de-tune a mk3 16v? :D
here what is again? that you dont think 16v's were toned down before being released?
how come a mk3 16v block and mk2 16v head will make more power than a mk3 16v block and head???
happens all the time. go check out the vauxhall pre-ecotec corsa GSI it had to be toned down also due to the fact that it was far to close performance wise, to the 2.0 16v, when it came back from lotus developement
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ive got to say that autocars test abour the golfs performance over the years was absolutly stupid and pointless. >:(
whats the point testing an 8vmk2 against a mk3 16v?
y not test both 16 valve versions,
then the mk2 would have won!
it would of beaten the mk4 1.8t as well!
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A fair report there.
You now have diesel GTis on the road which will kick my MK2 16v ass. But, when you sit inside one, what do you want? Luxury or enjoyment? I don't think I could hand on heart say that a MK4 Golf would give me that little smile everytime I see another flashing back at me (like when I am in the MK2), a new car is simply to common and to boring.
I know exactly what you mean,(as I have one of those diesel GTi's!) and a lot of the time (more-so at the weekends) when I want a hack down some country lanes I get frustrated with how the thing leans in the bends and how its not tremendously exciting (even if it is pretty damn quick!! and I think to myself, "I wish I was in a Mk1 or Mk2 16v".
But then equally there's times when I'm sat in central london in traffic , or crawling home on the A1 after a 14 hour day and I can appreciate how much more comfortable and quiet and relaxing my car is, with impressive grunt in reserve if the dawdlers move out of the way! There are times when you want to waft along with the air con on, without the car making a sound or feeling every fag butt on the road.
Based on the miles I do, I need to try and strike a comprimise, to try and fullfill both of those situations adequatley. I'm hoping the Mk5 GTi, when it gets here, will offer the thrills on the back lanes, as well as the comforts of the Mk4 when they're needed.
However, the idea of a project Mk1 running a 16v lump for weekend and track use grows stronger every day, as I think that its the only method to truly satisfy all of my requirements.
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I use my car for work and I do understand the comfort thing. But we have a Passat 130 TDi Estate too (the misses company car). So I have the best of both worlds. Also the misses hates driving my Golf, and I don't let my chocolate labrador in it either. Result! ;D
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i suppose Golf GTis are all about the legacy of the Mk1. The MK1 GTI pioneered a whole new sector in motoring and was the best in that sector throughout it's life.
Well said... Nothing compares having your bones shaken as you overtake all the MK2's, MK3's and the MK4's ;)
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I gotta say the mk1 here, the original classic! whooped everything else around in its time