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Model specific boards => Golf mk5 => Topic started by: Saint Steve on 01 November 2008, 17:05
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From a phone conversation today with Hurdy as he attented the Seat v Ukmkiv's Rolling road day.
Awesome's 375bhp GTi was retested and produced 357bhp!, whilst other stock Cars produced Stock figures!!...... at last it seems there is a rolling road with believeable figures.
Hurdy re-tested his aswell to the tune of 324bhp and 360Ibs ft of torque.
Awesome say that all previous runs to take off approx 20bhp from your previous results from them to give your corrected RR results. ,ie 250 K03 GTi's will be at 230bhp, which makes there results near on identical to results from JKM.
Mystery solved :smiley:
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interesting.
for how long has their rollers been over reading then?
shouldn't the rollers be re-calibrated a bit more frequently? I mean their "375bhp" GTI has been in that spec for quite some time I believe.
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interesting.
for how long has their rollers been over reading then?
shouldn't the rollers be re-calibrated a bit more frequently? I mean their "375bhp" GTI has been in that spec for quite some time I believe.
Just because they have 'RE-CALIBRATED' there rollers, doesn't mean that 20bhp should be taken off existing RR results across the board.. Hardly accurate..
Plus, John (Hurdy) got 315bhp last time he went on them in the same tune, so how do you explain that? Also Zboyd apparently got 333bhp from his Cupra today, that's about 25-30bhp UP on before and the same as Prosport last week..
I'll let you tidy up the mystery.. :wink:
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LOL. I think this Dyno Lottery mystery will never get resolved in that case!
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i will let Hurdy answer that then , (he was there after all). Standard cupra's were doing 240 bhp he mentioned. 325 seems the limit for Ed30's, after seeing greenouse's doing the same figures today on DD's rollers .
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Went on the rollers for free this morning,they wanted to to get a fresh reading. The dynojet guys were recalibrating.Max clutch power 331 Max torque 360.
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i will let Hurdy answer that then , (he was there after all). Standard cupra's were doing 240 bhp he mentioned. 325 seems the limit for Ed30's, after seeing greenouse's doing the same figures today on DD's rollers .
I wouldn't say Bluefin and TBE is the limit Steve, would you? Plenty of other mods to go from there.. HPFP, Decent Intake, FMIC etc etc..
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interesting.
for how long has their rollers been over reading then?
shouldn't the rollers be re-calibrated a bit more frequently? I mean their "375bhp" GTI has been in that spec for quite some time I believe.
Just because they have 'RE-CALIBRATED' there rollers, doesn't mean that 20bhp should be taken off existing RR results across the board.. Hardly accurate..
Plus, John (Hurdy) got 315bhp last time he went on them in the same tune, so how do you explain that? Also Zboyd apparently got 333bhp from his Cupra today, that's about 25-30bhp UP on before and the same as Prosport last week..
I'll let you tidy up the mystery.. :wink:
approx 20bhp , didnt mention gospel!!
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i will let Hurdy answer that then , (he was there after all). Standard cupra's were doing 240 bhp he mentioned. 325 seems the limit for Ed30's, after seeing greenouse's doing the same figures today on DD's rollers .
I wouldn't say Bluefin and TBE is the limit Steve, would you? Plenty of other mods to go from there.. HPFP, Decent Intake, FMIC etc etc..
Stage 2 tune i ment ben approx
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interesting.
for how long has their rollers been over reading then?
shouldn't the rollers be re-calibrated a bit more frequently? I mean their "375bhp" GTI has been in that spec for quite some time I believe.
Just because they have 'RE-CALIBRATED' there rollers, doesn't mean that 20bhp should be taken off existing RR results across the board.. Hardly accurate..
Plus, John (Hurdy) got 315bhp last time he went on them in the same tune, so how do you explain that? Also Zboyd apparently got 333bhp from his Cupra today, that's about 25-30bhp UP on before and the same as Prosport last week..
I'll let you tidy up the mystery.. :wink:
Had a few additional mods though since it ran 305hp, after which it also ran 316hp at Prosport. Since gaining its IC and Dbilas intake its got upto 333hp (Awesome) & 334hp (Prosport).
So make of that what you will, but looking at my Awesome graphs and Prosport graphs they are more or less bob on to each other.
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Yours seem to be the ONLY case of matched Runs on a corrected dyno at awesome and prosport. If Awesome are saying the rollers were wrong, then everyones previously would read differently now, as per some stock cars today at awesome which was notorious for high Stock readings before. :huh:
Has Cupranet got any listing of full results yet ZBOYD?? , can you link it if you know matie :smiley:
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well looking at the results on SCN, 2 bog standard Mk2 Leon Cupra's did 260bhp. So that's not "stock numbers" is it.
But then again, many have seen 260bhp on those cars on different RR's, straight out of the box.
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Is it me but Phil would appear to cast doubt on any dyno results that wasn't done on a DD rolling road...
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From a phone conversation today with Hurdy as he attented the Seat v Ukmkiv's Rolling road day.
Awesome's 375bhp GTi was retested and produced 357bhp!, whilst other stock Cars produced Stock figures!!...... at last it seems there is a rolling road with believeable figures.
Hurdy re-tested his aswell to the tune of 324bhp and 360Ibs ft of torque.
Awesome say that all previous runs to take off approx 20bhp from your previous results from them to give your corrected RR results. ,ie 250 K03 GTi's will be at 230bhp, which makes there results near on identical to results from JKM.
Mystery solved :smiley:
Nearly right Steve :wink:
20bhp less over 375bhp = 4.8% adjustment.
Mine did 324bhp and 381.7lbft<<< :shocked: DSG must now be in pain!
Dynojet guys were there all day making sure the rollers were as accurate as possible. I don't know how the Awesome Demo car figures went down with Awesome, but it must have been a bit of a surprise.
Very good day, with over 26 cars going on the rollers and many more turning up just to have a chat.
Awesome's arrangements with the run order of cars were excellent and the organisation of the day was superb (thanks to Awesome, Tabs and Zboyd :cool:)
Mark (Zboyd) did 333bhp and 365lbft on the day (with his new Dbilas in tow). He seemed quite chuffed :smiley:
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Is it me but Phil would appear to cast doubt on any dyno results that wasn't done on a DD rolling road...
i do Bacillus, because if a set of rollers dont produce Stock Figures, then no if or buts, Manufactures dont just pluck these figures just cus.They are
true Horsepower outputs give or take a couple of horsepower.
Its good news to see FINALLY awesomes rollers reading abit more accurately, the Rolling road at was it that Greenouse and SteveP, and topher
(even though lower then expected), DD rollers are not as accurate for 4 wheel drive motors as they have a tendancy to under read.Ive not seen the
full list of results from either Rolling road.
Sorry hurdy i thought you said on the blower 360lbs ft, appoligies matie :wink:, and also i thought that a stock leon cupra was 240bhp not 260 as
someone has mentioned???.
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well looking at the results on SCN, 2 bog standard Mk2 Leon Cupra's did 260bhp. So that's not "stock numbers" is it.
But then again, many have seen 260bhp on those cars on different RR's, straight out of the box.
link please......... :smiley:
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http://www.seatcupra.net/forums/showthread.php?t=184544&page=20
Post 385 has the SCN results.
no results list from the uk-mkivs side of things yet.
and on the stock leon cupra thing, yes they are 240bhp but plenty have produced 260bhp straight out of the box, on various rollers. I was merely referring to your original post where you stated stock cupras produced stock numbers on the re-cal'd rollers today, but they didn't.
i think your comment on manufacturers stated numbers as "TRUE" bhp is a bit misjudged. Plenty of cars out there come out of the factory with more than the manufacturers claims.
i.e. Japanese high performance cars were prime example of this. 276bhp "gentlemans agreement" yet many cars came out with over 300bhp in stock form (Impreza's, Evo's, GTR's etc)
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chungster, with your answer to the 260bhp cupra's. Just remember those are CLUTCH readings not wheel horse power. :smiley:
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chungster, with your answer to the 260bhp cupra's. Just remember those are CLUTCH readings not wheel horse power. :smiley:
Yes I know that, but I hope you're not saying the manufacturers stated power output of 240bhp, is at the WHEELS, are you?
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no im not chungster. :smiley:
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Just looked at the Cupranet results. :embarassed:
Looks like stock Cupras are still higher than I thought. Three went on and all got over 260bhp!!
Jury is still out!!
I doubt if anyone will get all of us together on one day for an accurate "zero mistakes" day.
Hmmm, dyno's prices start at £20K :grin:
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How's this then, this will really chuck a spanner in your logic. :)
My Cupra when it was brand spanking new last year with 200 miles on the clock, engine tight as hell ran 240hp book figure.
1 month later with just under 1000 miles on it, ran 260hp give or take. Both figures at clutch and taken at Awesome.
Now I could of discounted that except the car physically felt like it loosened up in that first month on the road.
So much so did i notice this butt dyno change I wanted to see how the figures were reflected on the RR hence why I took the opportunity to re-run it a month later.
Many others with Cupra's have reported similar experiences on their new cars, also claiming they felt them loosen up after 800 miles or so. I've seen and heard of so many of these cars running all round the country producing similar stock figures on varying RR's it's hard to dismiss totally.
Just figures at the end of the day though bit of pub banter. :wink:
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.. HPFP,
What's one of these then??? :cool:
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Horse Power Fiddling Procedure :tongue:
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Were those Cupra's Manual Gearbox?? do they have DSG Seat's??? :huh:
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Were those Cupra's Manual Gearbox?? do they have DSG Seat's??? :huh:
They do but DSG is not available on the Cupra at the mo.
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my ed30 did 265bhp at prosport on stock map but with the s3 ic on so 260 stock i would think is right
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2.0T FR's can be bought with DSG (200hp) Golf GTi basically. Cupra isn't available with DSG. They are revising the Cupra (along with all the Leon range) next Spring, face lift and spec change so you never know.
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the manager of vw dovercourt who i spoke to when i picked up said wait till you have done 1500 miles it will loosen up and will notice a significant difference so is understandable..
on the rr side of things is good to see greenouse ed30 with milltek and bluefin st 2 matching and out performing revo's st1/2 with fuel pumps and s3/apr intercoolers etc, comparing greenouse to last week results, especially after all the bad reports they have received,
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the manager of vw dovercourt who i spoke to when i picked up said wait till you have done 1500 miles it will loosen up and will notice a significant difference so is understandable..
on the rr side of things is good to see greenouse ed30 with milltek and bluefin st 2 matching and out performing revo's st1/2 with fuel pumps and s3/apr intercoolers etc, comparing greenouse to last week results, especially after all the bad reports they have received,
Here here! I was starting to believe all the negativity myself! I feel Superchips must be listening to the customers :huh:
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Horse Power Fiddling Procedure :tongue:
:grin: :grin:
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on the rr side of things is good to see greenouse ed30 with milltek and bluefin st 2 matching and out performing revo's st1/2 with fuel pumps and s3/apr intercoolers etc, comparing greenouse to last week results, especially after all the bad reports they have received,
Not sure how you can say that Bluefin have 'OUT PERFORMED' Revo and APR when there wasn't a Revo or APR mapped car (with same mods) on the same rollers that day..? :huh: :huh: :huh:
But it is spot on to see a Bluefinned car giving out some proper good figures, as they should have been. Nice one Greenouse.. :wink:
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It would have been nice to see some REVO representation, but maybe next time :wink:
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Call me sceptical or someit, but what settings are Superchips using to out perform mechanical enhancements like uprated fuel pumps & intercoolers? those figures you could argue would then be higher if you then added them to the car too? thus trumping us all??
way back when i was GIAC'd the ran the car on the r/r it came out @ 302, then some months later it went on Awesomes r/r and got 305.
The pursuit of numbers/figures is a lottery.
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Call me sceptical or someit, but what settings are Superchips using to out perform mechanical enhancements like uprated fuel pumps & intercoolers? those figures you could argue would then be higher if you then added them to the car too? thus trumping us all??
way back when i was GIAC'd the ran the car on the r/r it came out @ 302, then some months later it went on Awesomes r/r and got 305.
The pursuit of numbers/figures is a lottery.
To be honest the difference between 302 and 305 is 3hp, they are not the be all and end all of accuracy and I tend to work on the premise that +- 5hp or so each way is a relatively similar result to be seeing from one road to another.
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popped down on saturday for 5 mins, just to get a short shifter and ecs insert :smiley:
saw john for 5 mins, was going to run it but didnt have time as SWMBO was with me and wanted to go to the trafford center,
then luca called me saying hes just seen my car parked at the trafford center :laugh: :laugh: