GolfGTIforum.co.uk
Model specific boards => Golf mk5 => Topic started by: Hurdy on 25 October 2008, 16:49
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Hmmm,
Got my results from the Prosport rolling road day and I think things may be a little suspect.
All seemed to be going well and then a couple of spurious results came up.
I got results of 362bhp and 409lbft :shocked:
Bacillus got (from memory) 319bhp and 366lbft from his K03 engine :shocked:
Then we were all thinking things were correct as Ben (vtec) got 328bhp and 360lbft
But then a real spanner went in the works at the end of the day (after I had left) and was told by Gazbut that Vtec wanted to go back on again and then got over 370bhp and 360lbft.
So pretty much FCUKED the day up really as none of us can now say for sure whether or not we had an accurate result or a spurious one!!
I for one am happy with the 333bhp and 335lbft from my last RR day, which seems to be in line with upgrades like Oettinger etc are selling.
Prosport guys seemed very good and the organisation of the day was top drawer.
Sorry, but have to say this day was good for meeting up with the guys, but pap as far as the results can be validated.
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You boys better get yourselves to Weston Motorsport next Saturday on the DynoDynamics rollers! :wink:
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You boys better get yourselves to Weston Motorsport next Saturday on the DynoDynamics rollers! :wink:
I'd love to, but it means coming back from Blackpool to Weston and then home to sheffield to then go straight on to 11hr nights!!
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You boys better get yourselves to Weston Motorsport next Saturday on the DynoDynamics rollers! :wink:
I'd love to, but it means coming back from Blackpool to Weston and then home to sheffield to then go straight on to 11hr nights!!
:sad: Shame, be good to see you mate...............
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Wow...some amazing numbers there!!! :grin:
I'd like to know more about that K03 turbo'd car that produced MORE than the JKM K04'd Octavia.
Whatever mods/remaps he's done, I think everyone would like to know!
Cheers
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:shocked: i think bens cant be 370bhp and all my power had gone as VW had wiped my ecu :angry: but got 264bhp and 389nm/287ibft so on a stock map but with the mods i have so not all bad :undecided: lucky for me prosport are a revo dealer and the checked my car and said vw have wiped the code :angry: so they put it back on and said give it some time to settle in and get it done again :rolleyes:. the car defo pulls harder now and was a very good day and was good of Gaz to sort it out for us all :smiley:
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Hmmm,
Got my results from the Prosport rolling road day and I think things may be a little suspect.
All seemed to be going well and then a couple of spurious results came up.
I got results of 362bhp and 409lbft :shocked:
Bacillus got (from memory) 319bhp and 366lbft from his K03 engine :shocked:
Then we were all thinking things were correct as Ben (vtec) got 328bhp and 360lbft
But then a real spanner went in the works at the end of the day (after I had left) and was told by Gazbut that Vtec wanted to go back on again and then got over 370bhp and 360lbft.
So pretty much FCUKED the day up really as none of us can now say for sure whether or not we had an accurate result or a spurious one!!
I for one am happy with the 333bhp and 335lbft from my last RR day, which seems to be in line with upgrades like Oettinger etc are selling.
Prosport guys seemed very good and the organisation of the day was top drawer.
Sorry, but have to say this day was good for meeting up with the guys, but pap as far as the results can be validated.
be honest now Hurdy, with yourself aswell, :smiley:, if Ben hadn't got them results at the end would you have claimed your results :smiley:
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Hmmmm. I might have believed Hurdy at 360, but not 370 on a similar car with a stock fuel pump, intake and intercooler.
319 is very high for a K03s as well.
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You boys better get yourselves to Weston Motorsport next Saturday on the DynoDynamics rollers! :wink:
I'd love to, but it means coming back from Blackpool to Weston and then home to sheffield to then go straight on to 11hr nights!!
There is always the day at Awesome next weekend, i'll be running again so we would both have a pretty good reference to go off. :wink: I'm sure Tabs would be happy to have you bolster their numbers. :tongue:
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You boys better get yourselves to Weston Motorsport next Saturday on the DynoDynamics rollers! :wink:
I'd love to, but it means coming back from Blackpool to Weston and then home to sheffield to then go straight on to 11hr nights!!
There is always the day at Awesome next weekend, i'll be running again so we would both have a pretty good reference to go off. :wink: I'm sure Tabs would be happy to have you bolster their numbers. :tongue:
Woah SCN's head honco is posting on here! :grin:
Did you go on the Prosport RR today Mark?? What numbers did yours make?
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Well.. :grin:
I for one had a cracking day and met some more new faces etc all of which a great bunch of chaps.. Weather was a bit brass monkeys and wet, but we got by..
Had my first run about 11ish and last about 3:30pm
Results:-
Run 1..
First run = 325bhp 364lb/ft
Second run = 331bhp (no torque fig as computer spat it's dummy out :sad:)
Now me and Luca are running EXACTLY the same mods (Revo Stage 2, Milltek TBE with 2.75" DP and ITG Panel filter), but we were running different Revo settings (me being B9 T6 F9, Luca B7 T7 F9), so after Luca had run 331bhp, me and him went off for a run in my car and adjusted the settings to the same as his to get a comparison. So after everyone had ran, Pete kindly ran mine again and the results were....er....well....er....MENTAL!
First run = 368bhp 363lb/ft
Second run = 373bhp 362lb/ft :shocked: :shocked: :shocked:
Now my torques are consistant as ever (always have been) and after a nice long run home, the car is definately pulling like a barsteward top end, but 373bhp :huh: I think not! The power curve and torque curve speak for themselves and don't think they could be any better, but can't see how 370+ is possible really...
So as Hurdy said, it has thrown a spanner in the works a bit, as I am lost as to what power mine is actually making. But besides that, I had a thoroughly good day and that's what it's all about really.
I would also like to thank Pete and his crew for putting up with us all and laying on a spot on buffet and Gaz for organising it all.. Good work chaps :wink:
One other bonus is I certatainly happy with my settings at min.. :grin:
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any news on cohiba?
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I actually posted the other day, but the planning thread must of been binned. :huh:
Well if were to believe the figures, mine did 334hp 350ftlbs. Considering its had additional modifications since its run at Prosport earlier in the year of 316hp 335ftlbs its not so outlandish a difference. Though i wasn't sure what to expect today, having the new modifications i did expect to see an increase on last time.
I do tend to agree with Hurdy though, though my mapping is certainly not as aggressive as either the REVO coded cars or the Custom Code cars. I certainly think the figures were a bit incredible in those cases. Especially Ben's which doesn't even run an uprated pump to my knowledge.
Not sure really, those inconsistencies make me doubt the accuracy of the results. But overall a good day and I saw improvement which is what I was looking for.
Next weekend we'll have to see how it translates on the DynoJet at Awesome.
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FUUK,FUUK, FUUK, Nice to meet you all, not a good day for me. Spent a lot of money 2 days ago,mods hpfp, intercooler, dv,apr exhaust, apr re map and reached the dizzy hight of 270 bhp. JUST DRAGGED MY SELF OUT OF THE CANAL, TRIED TO DRAWN MY SELF TWICE BUT COULD NOT DO THAT SUCCESFULY TODAY. :grin:
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You boys better get yourselves to Weston Motorsport next Saturday on the DynoDynamics rollers! :wink:
....That's going to be an interesting day! :afro:
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FUUK,FUUK, FUUK, Nice to meet you all, not a good day for me. Spent a lot of money 2 days ago,mods hpfp, intercooler, dv,apr exhaust, apr re map and reached the dizzy hight of 270 bhp. JUST DRAGGED MY SELF OUT OF THE CANAL, TRIED TO DRAWN MY SELF TWICE BUT COULD NOT DO THAT SUCCESFULY TODAY. :grin:
so what did awesome say fella? i know my ecu had lost its revo code due to vw :angry:
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id be back there claiming a refund!! :angry:, everyone to Weston next week then!.
Shame it was a bit of a washout, especially with those couple of runs at the end to totally blow the Acuracy out the window.
Im really gutted i cant come along to Weston next week to see everyone and will be looking closely at any simularitys to JKM's RR day.
So where's the table of results??? Lets have a chuckle!! :smiley:
I guess Gaz has them??, and how did the S3's run??
Regardless of the results, having a meet up is always good fun and also having a group convoy to/from is Good fun :smiley:
Well done to Gaz for organising.
Anyone take any snaps aswell???
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No one there to help with my problem today, got to see jim monday morning.
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just realised all the cars that made the "interesting figures" were DSG, could this be relevant?, the last run of the day was a punto grande diesel, 130bhp stock, with de-cat it made 140bhp :smiley:
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Could well be gaz, and they are specialised rollers for 4 wheel drive cars wernt they, seems like the rollers are reading 10% over, from what
i heard from Hurdy earlier today and seeing some other results.
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well , where do I start :grin:
Top day as ever , great turnout and made very welcome by Peter and the guys at Prosport.
Even laid on some food [yum]
The weather was as predicted shocking , and darn chilly (Im still trying to warm up even now :shocked:)
Thanks to Gaz for organising , nice car Gaz :tongue:
In general the figures seemed 'within tolerance' / 'believable' :grin: , however of note the heavily modified K03 GTI figures (bacillus?) and Ben (Vtecs) last runs are just a bit more than a stretch throwing it all out of the pram (or does it if its just DSG related?)
What I would say is the runs appeared to be very repeatable (when no settings are changed)
imho the cars running DSG seem to have inflated figures more than manual cars (all the S3's ran without any 'crazy' numbers)
It also found faults without question , Matts car being set back to 'stock' mode and Lucas car being held back by the REVO settings (subsequently well and truly fixed :grin:), so as a diagnostic tool the rollers were working great.
imho I would suggest that the bhp figures should be about 15 hp less.
Time will tell , but ZBoyds car is on at Awesome next weekend.
Another great day , thanks everyone.
[edit : Just realised Im agreeing with Gaz on the DSG issue :grin:]
[edit : forgot to mention the audi-sport folk were very sociable too]
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370??? wtf.. must be amazing...
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Question is, Did ANY stock GTi's pull 200 or 227 Stock Ed30's to prove accuracy of the rollers???
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just realised all the cars that made the "interesting figures" were DSG, could this be relevant?, the last run of the day was a punto grande diesel, 130bhp stock, with de-cat it made 140bhp :smiley:
Could be.. But my torque figure is bang on from other RR's.. Fook knows :huh:. Still enjoyed myself anyway..
Cheers for sorting though mate.. :wink:
Graphs from today.. (haven't got a scanner, sorry :undecided:)
(http://img201.imageshack.us/img201/4316/rrgraphs002pn6.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)
(http://img201.imageshack.us/img201/rrgraphs002pn6.jpg/1/w450.png) (http://g.imageshack.us/img201/rrgraphs002pn6.jpg/1/)
(http://img293.imageshack.us/img293/8261/rrgraphs003xa7.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)
(http://img293.imageshack.us/img293/rrgraphs003xa7.jpg/1/w800.png) (http://g.imageshack.us/img293/rrgraphs003xa7.jpg/1/)
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I would have asked for my cash back with that last set of runs lol! As always its the dyno lottery.
I could belive the 320-330 considering your TBE, REV2, ITF filter.
Hurdy you would have got 390's then lol :shocked: :wink:
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I would have asked for my cash back with that last set of runs lol! As always its the dyno lottery.
I could belive the 320-330 considering your TBE, REV2, ITF filter.
Hurdy you would have got 390's then lol :shocked: :wink:
I think 330bhp would be about right and i'd be more than happy with that..
By the way guys, there's loads of pics to come I think. Saw quite a few peeps with cameras. Including Mr Snaphappy aka Zboyd with a 'proper' camera too.. :wink:
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iirc Peter said that the hp on this dyno is worked out from the torque figure so having two different hp readings from similiar torque figures is baffling.
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any one know of a rollers that mount it to the hubs?
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Think Steve S has had his on one of those..
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Think Steve S has had his on one of those..
i would think that type would be better :undecided:
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By the way guys, there's loads of pics to come I think. Saw quite a few peeps with cameras. Including Mr Snaphappy aka Zboyd with a 'proper' camera too.. :wink:
Working on them right now, should be up in an hour or so, just deleting reg no's etc. :wink:
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iirc Peter said that the hp on this dyno is worked out from the torque figure so having two different hp readings from similiar torque figures is baffling.
horsepower is a result of torque and revs, so if the revs are slightly different then the figures will be, with rolling roads there is always a calculation to give you flywheel hp, this can also lead to variations.
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Wheres a Table of results????? No one noted them down??
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id be back there claiming a refund!! :angry:, everyone to Weston next week then!.
Shame it was a bit of a washout, especially with those couple of runs at the end to totally blow the Acuracy out the window.
Im really gutted i cant come along to Weston next week to see everyone and will be looking closely at any simularitys to JKM's RR day.
So where's the table of results??? Lets have a chuckle!! :smiley:
I guess Gaz has them??, and how did the S3's run??
Regardless of the results, having a meet up is always good fun and also having a group convoy to/from is Good fun :smiley:
Well done to Gaz for organising.
Anyone take any snaps aswell???
Yes, I have the results will be 2morra now before I post them, to busy eatin lamb, drinkin wine and watchin football :laugh:
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Matts car running a 'stock' like REVO map ran 260 bhp , so it was close to my previous numbers at Awesome (255) take from that what you will.
pics removed for now
** MY DYNO ** (http://www.johnoldfield.dsl.pipex.com/images/weblog/prosportrrdayoct2008/prosport_dyno.jpg)
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and like I said the punto did 140bhp with de-cat, 130bhp std
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Matts car running a 'stock' like REVO map ran 260 bhp , so it was close to my previous numbers at Awesome (255) take from that what you will.
i think the s3 ic helped push the stock power up for defo but now the car is pulling fine thanks to prosport checking my car for me :smiley: what a top bunch of guys :smiley:
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(http://img201.imageshack.us/img201/4316/rrgraphs002pn6.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)
maybe i'm missing something here, but if that's the RPM at the bottom.. then why don't the torque and bhp lines cross at 5250rpm?
edit: nvm.. opened my eyes and saw they're in different scales :grin:
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i think the s3 ic helped push the stock power up for defo but now the car is pulling fine thanks to prosport checking my car for me :smiley: what a top bunch of guys :smiley:
Matt your car is pulling better atm as it's not now laden with intercoolers... :smiley:
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(http://img201.imageshack.us/img201/4316/rrgraphs002pn6.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)
maybe i'm missing something here, but if that's the RPM at the bottom.. then why don't the torque and bhp lines cross at 5250rpm?
edit: nvm.. opened my eyes and saw they're in different scales :grin:
was about to post I didn't understand what you were askin :smiley:, then you beat me to it
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(please PM me if you want reg nos removed)
Prefer it if you did the honours and removed it please. :wink:
I would love to PM you, no offence but if i could find it I would. :cool:
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Prefer it if you did the honours and removed it please. :wink:
I would love to PM you, no offence but if i could find it I would. :cool:
You need at least 10 post before you get the PM facility.
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no probs guys , back up again later
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and like I said the punto did 140bhp with de-cat, 130bhp std
seems the More horsepowers on the roallers, the More optimistic those rollers read!., maybe a Mini One might of had 5 bhp over stock if it ran!
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Think Steve S has had his on one of those..
indeed. they were quite against the traditional RRs, they need to be calibrated to wheel/tyre size, air presure makes a difference too... thats all taken out with Dyno test...
Image here (http://gallery.sjssites.co.uk/Golf%20GTI%20ED30/bhp@hub.JPG)
however its pathetic now compaired to you lot!! lol...
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Think Steve S has had his on one of those..
indeed. they were quite against the traditional RRs, they need to be calibrated to wheel/tyre size, air presure makes a difference too... thats all taken out with Dyno test...
--> http://gallery.sjssites.co.uk/Golf%20GTI%20ED30/bhp@hub.JPG
interesting thing steveS, your torque curve is very simular to mine from JKM. has a camels back look to it. Sign of a accurate dyno
(http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s264/philmcavity/100_1425.jpg)
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don't be like that phil :smiley:, I am thinkin its a DSG thing, I'm not for 1 minute suggesting Bens Revo stg2 and milltek made 370ish bhp, but all the manual figures are about what you would expect with the mods they had. Luca's runnin Revo stg2, milltek and ITG I think and it did 330ish thats not far off what you would expect
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Prefer it if you did the honours and removed it please. :wink:
I would love to PM you, no offence but if i could find it I would. :cool:
You need at least 10 post before you get the PM facility.
I figured as much, just like on Cupra.net :wink:
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What is Revo stage 1 on dyno dynamics?? 290bhp, and going stage 2 give you 40bhp more??. If a stock car produced stock figures then i
would agree Gaz, but an automatic shouldnt throw a set of rollers completely bonkers!.
Weston next week may give abit more clarity :smiley:, hopefully
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What i was saying was Ben and Luca are running exactly the same mods, same Revo settings, same car, everything, Ben's does 370, Luca's 330, work it out
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i seeeee.... :lipsrsealed:, doesnt add up does it.
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Gaz out of interest, what numbers did you get with your car?
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Bla bla bla..... :rolleyes:
I enjoyed it anyway and got a present too :smug:
Zbody, you really are turning into - what was it, ah yes - a "dyno whore" :laugh:
Edit: I could kinda agree on the DSG cars theory, sure i heard a gear change during one run - not like it looses boost with DSG. Were any of the S3's stock.. Joesgti pulled around 250 which was about right (manual)
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I enjoyed it anyway and got a present too :smug:
Come on neg, spill... :smiley:
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If its any consolation, another MK2 Leon Cupra with Dbilas, Pump, Full Milltek, S3 Intercooler and Revo stage 2 made 351bhp and 320ft-lbs on a Daztek r/r last weekend - settings B8 T6 F8
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I enjoyed it anyway and got a present too :smug:
Come on neg, spill... :smiley:
Though I mentioned it to you... oh its cold in here :wink:
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I enjoyed it anyway and got a present too :smug:
Come on neg, spill... :smiley:
Though I mentioned it to you... oh its cold in here :wink:
Oh silly me, of course you did. :smiley:
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Wernt there 4-5 s3's?? were they at different stages of tune?
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i seeeee.... :lipsrsealed:, doesnt add up does it.
No it doesn't, I wasn't saying prosports rollers are accurate and they should be read as gospel. :smiley:
Gaz out of interest, what numbers did you get with your car?
:smiley: 328bhp and 341ft/lbs, what you would expect really, some of S3 lads have quoted 340odd for similar mods, maybe with an intake, think it was on Amd's rollers
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I enjoyed it anyway and got a present too :smug:
Come on neg, spill... :smiley:
Though I mentioned it to you... oh its cold in here :wink:
you got another present/freebie too you cheeky monkey :smiley:
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has a camels back look to it. Sign of a accurate dyno
ok Im gonna take the bait Phil :wink:
Irrespective of the numbers derived the variety of ways in which a plot can be drawn can make the same numbers 'look' different.
As well as that , since when is a camels back equate to an accurate dyno! The shape of a curve is dependent on the way the engine delivers , which for every different engine type could be different.....
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you got another present/freebie too you cheeky monkey :smiley:
Ah yes, thank you sir (http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m252/RiverIsMyGoddess/icons/smiley_zzbeer.jpg)
Now realising how heavy there are I might remove them, dont need em do ya :smug: :laugh:
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has a camels back look to it. Sign of a accurate dyno
ok Im gonna take the bait Phil :wink:
Irrespective of the numbers derived the variety of ways in which a plot can be drawn can make the same numbers 'look' different.
As well as that , since when is a camels back equate to an accurate dyno! The shape of a curve is dependent on the way the engine delivers , which for every different engine type could be different.....
Someone on here said the camels back quote, i think it might have been T_T, question his judgement John_o!! :smiley:.
not sure who it was but ive read it somewhere a shape of a torque curve, with a straight and even pull though the rev range.
this is SteveP's and i think this is a really good example of a good running remap, alot better then a stock car
http://www.jkm.org.uk/performance/Misc/Gallery/rollingroaddays/Golf%20GTi%20RR%20Day%202008/Dyno%20Charts/SWP.gif
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I think what John is saying is the way the graph is plotted can change the shape of the curve, as in if the scale along the bottom axis, usually revs is dragged out that would change the shape, in the same way the scale of the vertical axis can change the shape. so the actual shape can be altered
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A few pics - http://www.seatcupra.net/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=30762&g2_navId=x80e406dd (http://www.seatcupra.net/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=30762&g2_navId=x80e406dd)
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Sounds like you all had a good day which to me is the thing I would want out of an RR day :cool:
As shown by PhilMc above my ED30 ran 278bhp on JKM's Dyno Dynamic's rollers and after some reworking of the map by Richter then ran 303bhp on Superchips MAHA LP3000 rollers. (Sorry can remember the torque figures off hand :embarassed:)
I am sure at weston next week I will, at best, see 285bhp on their Dyno Dynamics rollers :undecided:
At the end of the day every company who has invested (a serious amount of money) in a Rolling Road will says theirs is the best and is very accurate.
If your happy with the way the cars feels and drives then why worry about chasing figures than can't be 100% verified without taking your engine out :smiley:
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Shame I couldnt make it, sounds like I would have got about 600bhp :smug:
Those figures are completely bogus, could it be anything to do with the DSG?? Was it only the DSG cars that had the spurious results?
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I would agree Phil , that SteveP's graphs do look good.
I'll get excel out later and see what I can 'create'
Gaz hurry up with the results
ZBOYD nice picks :cool:
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Sounds like you all had a good day which to me is the thing I would want out of an RR day :cool:
As shown by PhilMc above my ED30 ran 278bhp on JKM's Dyno Dynamic's rollers and after some reworking of the map by Richter then ran 303bhp on Superchips MAHA LP3000 rollers. (Sorry can remember the torque figures off hand :embarassed:)
I am sure at weston next week I will, at best, see 285bhp on their Dyno Dynamics rollers :undecided:
At the end of the day every company who has invested (a serious amount of money) in a Rolling Road will says theirs is the best and is very accurate.
If your happy with the way the cars feels and drives then why worry about chasing figures than can't be 100% verified without taking your engine out :smiley:
....I couldn't agree more! :afro:
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Had an excellent day today guys. Was good to meet some new faces and the free food was very good :smiley:.
First run with my car was 275 bhp 348lbft torque :huh:. Didnt understand why the bhp was so low until i saw the graph which was showing the car was pulling timing from 4krpm onwards so making no more power from there.
Peter and a few other suggested the boost was too high so i knocked mine back to boost 7 and did some vag com logs with neg and ben and the car pulled right through the revs with no timing or boost issues :smiley:.
Took the car back and put it on the rollers and the car came out at 330bhp 350lbft torque and another run showed 331bhp 345lbft torque.
Was more than happy with the result and the car feels much better now :smiley:.
The figure i got may be more than it really is but i dont care because the car feels and goes like a rocket and has shown quite a few big cars up :wink:.
A few pics from today
(http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff284/lucachiarelli/DSC00052.jpg)
(http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff284/lucachiarelli/DSC00053.jpg)
(http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff284/lucachiarelli/DSC00058.jpg)
(http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff284/lucachiarelli/DSC00055.jpg)
(http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff284/lucachiarelli/DSC00060.jpg)
(http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff284/lucachiarelli/DSC00061.jpg)
(http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff284/lucachiarelli/DSC00062.jpg)
(http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff284/lucachiarelli/DSC00070.jpg)
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Shame I couldnt make it, sounds like I would have got about 600bhp :smug:
Those figures are completely bogus, could it be anything to do with the DSG?? Was it only the DSG cars that had the spurious results?
yes it was, like I said earlier, vtec and luca are running the same spec 08 ed30's, revo stg2, 2.75" milltek downpipe milltek exhaust, same settings B7 T7 F9, vtec 370bhp luca 330bhp, surely there is something in it. Like I said earlier I'm not saying Prosports rollers are gospel but I think there is something in the gearbox type on their rollers
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Ah sorry didnt see that post, still looks like it was a good turn out on the day and you guys had fun! Which is what its all about :)
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Ben did run a 330bhp before the 370bhp run. I would say mine and bens cars are pretty even performance wise after going out in his. He will have a slightly better acceleration on the move due to the dsg.
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was a great turn out will post results etc 2 morra too full of vino right now :smiley:
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Hello guys.
Good to meet you all today!
Interesting hey... another RR lottery!
With regards the other S3's
My car (the blue one with GIAC) made a best of 314bhp and 305lb/ft however, I'm happier mixing the best power figure and the bets torque figure of my two runs ha ha ha so 314bhp and 327lb/ft. I do have an odd dip in the plot though... need to look in to that
Lee made 299bhp - can't remember the torque on a standard car!!!
Eagle made 291 bhp on just a cat back zorst
Leon made 310 bhp and 337lb/ft on GIAC only
A good day was had, damn cold, but good to meet a few more like minded bod's!
Zboyd - great pic's mate, and thanks for helping me with my list of excuses :grin:
Cheers,
J
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Hello guys.
Good to meet you all today!
Interesting hey... another RR lottery!
With regards the other S3's
My car (the blue one with GIAC) made a best of 314bhp and 305lb/ft however, I'm happier mixing the best power figure and the bets torque figure of my two runs ha ha ha so 314bhp and 327lb/ft. I do have an odd dip in the plot though... need to look in to that
Lee made 299bhp - can't remember the torque on a standard car!!!
Eagle made 291 bhp on just a cat back zorst
Leon made 310 bhp and 337lb/ft on GIAC only
You'll do anything to make yours sound better Jamie!
Mine made 304bhp and 316lbft.
BTW Thanks for having us there guys, it was a great, but freezing cold day!
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Bloomin 'eck
I come back after a night out on the town and find 8 pages to go through on one thread :laugh:
Here are a few bits I can pick out from the day.....*pauses to get brain in gear!*
1. Definitely seems to be something a bit wappy on the bhp side of things for DSG motors
2. Definitely seems that theres something wappy on the lbft side for DSG cars
3. Definitely had a good day out despite the "lovely" Stockport weather.
4. Definitely a good set of blokes at Prosport and well organised
5. Definitely a big up for Gaz
6. Definitely claiming all my figures were spot on :wink: :rolleyes:
If I had been able to stay and see Bens second set of runs, I would have asked to have mine put back on again to see if my figures were repeated or different. As it is now, all I can say is that the RR side of things was a waste of time for me personally. I may as well have just gone along for a chat and given my £40 to charity instead of just the £5.
I will not be putting my car on any more rolling roads again, but would attend if they are nearby/when I can get to them.
My reasoning for the last statement?...........I know my car is fast enough for me and no matter what RR I go on or what results I achieve, there will always be people who say:-
i. You went on a different day and it was colder.
ii. That dyno isn't accurate, it is overreading.
iii. there's no way you can get that figure from those mods
iv. It's DSG, so it's different
v. Mine's manual, so it's different
vi. People can bung the guy a tenner to let him change the settings.
vii. They don't like REVO/CC/APR/GIAC here and so deliberately give lower results to them
On the whole I would also say that even the manuals were a little on the high side.
Regardless of accuracy, the RR day was useful to some people, giving them indicators of their cars not performing as they should. :cool:
If I'm passing Awesome next Saturday, I'll pop in and see how they are going on, but there is no way I'm going on their dyno again especially on a RR day.
Maybe one day I'll change my mind, but until then I'll leave my sig figures as they are :smiley:
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I think you just need to find a reliable set of rollers Hurdy, to satisfy your curiosity and give you a bench mark. It's not a case of who's got the biggest etc but if you take the recent case highlighted by Robin, he thinks/thought his car was running sweet, even after the miserable figure he drove it up the road coming back saying that the butt dyno thought all was well and that according to his boost guage he was still peaking at XXpsi. What has actually emarged is that he does in fact have a problem which he will need to have looked at.
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Seems like a real mixed bag (numbers look high but I know very little about GTI mods!)
As mentioned a few times, R32OC has a rolling road day at Weston Performance on the 1st of Nov. There are a few GTI guys from here already paid up and attending. Anyone else would be most welcome. We have 12 people paid and attending so far. The cost is £45 which is almost half price! All you need to do is sign up on R32OC (as your username is used as verification) and pay Weston direct over the phone. Full details can be found here... http://www.r32oc.com/southern/6730-mkv-meet-weston-performance-rr-day-sat-1st-nov-08-a.html (http://www.r32oc.com/southern/6730-mkv-meet-weston-performance-rr-day-sat-1st-nov-08-a.html)
Some of the GTI’s on here are gorgeous. Hope to maybe see a few more of you guys there!
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thinking about it more , the whole not locking in 5th gear and allowing the car to change up from 5th to 6th may have totally screwed the flywheel correction as thats done by coastdown losses.
We should really have had a chat and got Prosport to do that.
Hurdys right in that , I believe he probably got 333 bhp again at Prosport , so thats a + 30bhp 'correction' required for DSG cars.
In some way that brings Bens car back into line (340bhp) , but that would also mean that his first run he was only at 300 odds (i.e. down on power)
For the manual cars I believe the figures are consistent (but not gospel or absolutely correct numbers)
its all good fun :shocked: I think :grin: :cool:
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I think you just need to find a reliable set of rollers Hurdy, to satisfy your curiosity and give you a bench mark. It's not a case of who's got the biggest etc but if you take the recent case highlighted by Robin, he thinks/thought his car was running sweet, even after the miserable figure he drove it up the road coming back saying that the butt dyno thought all was well and that according to his boost guage he was still peaking at XXpsi. What has actually emarged is that he does in fact have a problem which he will need to have looked at.
....Absolutely spot on, Stu! :afro:
My history on the rollers, all at JKM to give a constant benchmark (or should I say as 'constant' as any rollers are, given all the on-the-day variables etc) : -
- Dyno run to check everything healthy as stock.
- Same day dyno run after Revo Stage1 remap.
- Dyno run a few weeks later to check how Stage1 has settled.
- 'Social' dyno gathering at JKM, essentially to compare Ed30 plots - Confirmed no significant changes for my Stage1.
- Revo installed Stage2 at their HQ, without dyno but checked via laptop on the road.
- 'Social' dyno gathering at JKM but my car plotted no different from when Stage1. So the dyno run proved very valuable (as Stu is suggesting) in revealing a problem.
- Consequently I arranged a further dyno run at JKM specifically to discover the problem. Meanwhile both Milltek and Revo had been very helpful and Milltek even replaced my sportscat before my dyno session. Data logging showed that my turbo was having to work very hard, most likely to overcome a boost leak.
- Another session has been booked at JKM to investigate further and Weston Performance, who also have Dyno-Dynamics rollers, are also keen to help with suggestions.
Regarding DSG cars on rollers, I was under the impression that operators knew how to effectively compensate/cater for DSG. I'm confident that JKM know how.
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If I'm passing Awesome next Saturday, I'll pop in and see how they are going on, but there is no way I'm going on their dyno again especially on a RR day.
Never had a problem with Awesome's RR, very repeatable figures on my last car which was REVO mapped and on this one which of course is APR mapped.
As has been discovered, being somewhat at a disadvantage yesterday on the knowledge of this forums cars and what cars were DSG or not. Prosport seemed to struggle with how to run the DSG's on their road. :undecided:
I've heard of manual TFSi's with the kind of mods Hurdy's has producing pretty incredible figures. So the initial thought was well if they boost has been ramped up then it could be possible though the very high torque figure puzzled me. Ben's earlier figure with his mods satisfied me that it was probably the more accurate of his runs. +- a few hp compared to Luca's car is where it should be really. In fact i think Ben's ran something like that at Awesome earlier in the year too.
My own car ran 334hp 350ftlbs on its first run, and followed it with 2 runs producing 328hp 360ftlbs. It ran 316hp and 335ftlbs in June at Prosport, since then it has had the APR intercooler and Dbilas intake fitted. So there has been a change and it's not so huge a change that its unbelievable.
My car ran 305hp 360ftlbs on Awesome's earlier in the year, with all the stage 2 mods except the IC and Dbilas, it also ran 305hp and 320ftlbs at RSTuning on their DynoDynamics road but didn't have the fuel pump then or the stage 2 code but did have the APR 3" TBE.
At the end of the day a rolling road is a tool, its not the be all and end all. But in my case i've not seen anything outrageous with my figures and as a result tend to believe they are fairly accurate.
I think all the manual cars can rest easy really that they got a fairly good indicator.
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I will not be putting my car on any more rolling roads again, but would attend if they are nearby/when I can get to them.
My reasoning for the last statement?...........I know my car is fast enough for me and no matter what RR I go on or what results I achieve, there will always be people who say:-
i. You went on a different day and it was colder.
ii. That dyno isn't accurate, it is overreading.
iii. there's no way you can get that figure from those mods
iv. It's DSG, so it's different
v. Mine's manual, so it's different
vi. People can bung the guy a tenner to let him change the settings.
vii. They don't like REVO/CC/APR/GIAC here and so deliberately give lower results to them
On the whole I would also say that even the manuals were a little on the high side.
Regardless of accuracy, the RR day was useful to some people, giving them indicators of their cars not performing as they should.
....I have a similar attitude to yourself, but I do think that dyno runs are very useful for checking a car's health (as well as providing an excellent excuse for a meet and a banter).
I'll be attending the Weston session on 1st November but whether I go on the rollers or not will depend on what happens the day before at JKM. Paul Weston understands the reasons for this and is most helpful.
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I for one really want to go on DD rollers to put a end to all the speculation of whether or not other rollers are accurate. But JKM is ruddy miles away and just can't do next week..
Another thing is that AFAIK there isn't a Revo car going to Weston or any of the cars from yesterday either :undecided:. So we are just going to end up with the same sort scenario as JKM's results i'd imagine..
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I'd like to have come along next week but I'm already busy.
Also a point worth noting is that DD rollers aren't infalible if somone wants to see a specific result so you need to be sure the operators are doing so correctly -
http://passionford.com/forum/showthread.php?t=265886
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i. You went on a different day and it was colder.
ii. That dyno isn't accurate, it is overreading.
iii. there's no way you can get that figure from those mods
iv. It's DSG, so it's different
v. Mine's manual, so it's different
vi. People can bung the guy a tenner to let him change the settings.
vii. They don't like REVO/CC/APR/GIAC here and so deliberately give lower results to them
Good list of theories.
i. Temperature can make a difference based on the air density, but in most cases you would get more of an effect of this on the open road than on a RR as the flow of air is faster and more direct. Hot days of course the air temperature can be high to start with so will not cool as effectively on cars with a lesser core of IC. Larger the core more effective the cooling effect, even on cold days.
ii. That's a software issue, they all have different ways of calculating the data. It's still best to compare figures on the same day against a varied selection of cars. As long as the operator is setting it up right of course.
iii. I've heard of TFSi's making over 350hp with the same level of mods that you and I have, they can be mapped to deliver big numbers. The 362 figure initially I could of believed based on the mapping I know CC can be quite peaky, it was the torque figure that went along with it that had me scratching my head.
iv. Well it is different, its a completely different type of gearbox (Clarkson once called it Witchcraft)
Prosport didn't really convince me they had enough experience with it to get it running right. Didn't an S3 do a mad figure because the length of the rolling road was a bit out of balance too?
v. Again it is, but less so because you stick it in a gear and it stays put until someone grabs hold of the gear stick, pushes in the clutch and makes it go some where else. :wink: Is DSG manual mode truly manual? Not sure why they were changing cogs in a run? I've no experience of a DSG box so if i need to be educated then let me know. :huh:
vi. Heard of this, and I'm sure some less unscrupulous places might even entertain it. They must be desperate to do it and it's kind of sad really. :undecided:
vii. Same as above really, just find that kind of sad. Tends to be spread by off cuff comments by tuners though. If they have to do that to push their products above others then their products are not really worth a great deal in my opinion. I've never had an opinion of liking one product over an another and still don't. My last car was REVO'd and was fantastic, this one is APR and equally great fun.
We are all looking for the best figures, in most cases people can't see much further than their 'peak' figures. However I like to compare graphs and see where one car is making its power at what RPM range. To me it's how the power is across the rev band that is of most importance.
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I for one really want to go on DD rollers to put a end to all the speculation of whether or not other rollers are accurate. But JKM is ruddy miles away and just can't do next week..
Another thing is that AFAIK there isn't a Revo car going to Weston or any of the cars from yesterday either :undecided:. So we are just going to end up with the same sort scenario as JKM's results i'd imagine..
RS Tuning in Leeds have a DD road. Used it earlier in the year and was fairly similar to Awesomes and Prosport's in terms of the figures i've seen.
Going back to RS Tuning in November, so will have visited all 3 rolling roads again with the new modifications.
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Another thing is that AFAIK there isn't a Revo car going to Weston or any of the cars from yesterday either :undecided:. So we are just going to end up with the same sort scenario as JKM's results i'd imagine..
....I'm going with my Revo Stage2 GTI (not Ed30) but as explained why earlier, I won't know until the day before if I'll go on Weston's rollers. I'd be stupid to risk stressing my car's turbo while we don't know the exact problem. I'm currently running around in D-mode all the time and taking it easy on the throttle. I'm still pushing 230 bhp.
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Well I don't know if this theory holds up as I don't know enough about RRs.
Seeing that the first ed30 run figures appeared within expected and the discrepency only occured on Ben's second run, is it not possible that Peter@Prosport didn't switch the dyno back from 4wd to 2wd mode after the S3s did their stint?
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Is Gaz still on the Vino??? :laugh: wheres the List of results!! .
In respoce to Robin at JKM, they cant have problems with a Standard GTi with DSG as theyve had too many DSG cars pullin stock bhp.
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they can't have problems with a Standard GTi with DSG as theyve had too many DSG cars pullin stock bhp.
Could all those results be wrong then... :wink:
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they can't have problems with a Standard GTi with DSG as theyve had too many DSG cars pullin stock bhp.
Could all those results be wrong then... :wink:
Yeah mines really pulling 300hp from by Butt Dyno :wink: :grin:
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well i believe mine :smiley: first ever RR i went on i ran 200 after a remap, and found i had a boost leak, 2nd RR i went on i ran 230 and had an issue with my map, last RR i went on @prostort i ran 251 with 282lbs torque, so i believe my dyno to be correct :smiley: :smiley:
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I reckon yours is spot on Joe :smiley:
That is what I expected to see from your car and so you must be chuffed to see them :cool:
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I reckon yours is spot on Joe :smiley:
That is what I expected to see from your car and so you must be chuffed to see them :cool:
yep im chuffed!! :smiley: :afro:
next is the S3 i/c and hpfp to get a bit more UUUUMPHH at the top of my rev range! advise by gaz and hurdy :laugh:
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Another quick update lads :smiley:
Sent the charity money, paid online actually, to Macmillan Cancer Support today, and got this email as a receipt, so thanx again to everyone who came to our Rolling Road day :smiley:
Thank you Gary Butler for making a donation of £100.00 to Macmillan Cancer Support. You're helping to provide medical, emotional and financial support and push for better cancer care.
One in three of us will get cancer. Its something that affects us all. Our goal is to reach everyone affected by cancer that wants and needs us. Together we can make it happen. Thank you so much for your support.
We are all affected by cancer. We can all help. We are Macmillan.
Visit our website: www.macmillan.org.uk
Macmillan Cancer Support, Registered charity number 261017. Isle of Man charity number 604. Isle of Man company number 4694F. A company limited by guarantee.Registered in England and Wales, number 2400969. Registered office: 89 Albert Embankment, London SE1 7UQ
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Another quick update lads :smiley:
Sent the charity money, paid online actually, to Macmillan Cancer Support today, and got this email as a receipt, so thanx again to everyone who came to our Rolling Road day :smiley:
Thank you Gary Butler for making a donation of £100.00 to Macmillan Cancer Support. You're helping to provide medical, emotional and financial support and push for better cancer care.
One in three of us will get cancer. Its something that affects us all. Our goal is to reach everyone affected by cancer that wants and needs us. Together we can make it happen. Thank you so much for your support.
We are all affected by cancer. We can all help. We are Macmillan.
Visit our website: www.macmillan.org.uk
Macmillan Cancer Support, Registered charity number 261017. Isle of Man charity number 604. Isle of Man company number 4694F. A company limited by guarantee.Registered in England and Wales, number 2400969. Registered office: 89 Albert Embankment, London SE1 7UQ
good stuff fella and it will be even better next time if prosport are still going to donate all the funds to charity :smiley:
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Nice One Gaz :cool: thanks again
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cheers gaz :cool:
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Well done Gaz, im a big supporter of Macmillan cancer fund, i donated £2000 to their cause after i lost my dad to his fight with cancer 2
years ago :smiley:
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Well done Gaz, The charity means a lot to me as my mum had cancer, every little bit counts! :smiley:
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me too, my old man has had a couple of brushes with the big C
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Same here too. My dad passed away last year from Lung cancer :cry: