GolfGTIforum.co.uk
Model specific boards => Golf mk5 => Topic started by: WhiteGTI on 25 October 2008, 13:40
-
Well, I guess it is due that I report on my recent modding activities! Apologies for the essay…..in essence I had mods fitted, and they are great!
Last week my plans were finally put into action and I went ahead with the following:
- Revo Stage 2
- APR RSC 3.0†TBE
- Forge DV
- Carbonio intake
- ECS Dogbone Insert
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3166/2971068927_25f81ac022.jpg)
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3033/2971067519_dc2548ddb1.jpg)
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3041/2971906864_ed5371b76d.jpg)
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3157/2971062793_a48268e5fa.jpg)
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3138/2971061327_0b8b904aa7.jpg)
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3052/2971058463_d52f0f02b8.jpg)
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3148/2971055867_3816e5ff31.jpg)
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3158/2971054215_923feeaa00.jpg)
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3041/2971895670_72898968c8.jpg)
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3247/2971894370_2fc923a8a9.jpg)
On Monday I had the RSC exhaust, Forge DV, ECS insert and Carbonio fitted at Tuningwerkes in South Croydon. Tuningwerkes are an APR dealer – hence why I did not get the remap done at the same time. Overall, I was very impressed. The exhaust note is amazing and even better than I was expecting. It seemed much louder on my car than the Tuningwerkes demo car that I was taken out in (both MK5 GTi’s). Everyone comments that it is not a stereotypical sound of a Golf, but that it is a very nice sound. Inside the cabin there is NO drone at all. It is quiet when you want it to be, but under WOT it absolutely screams! I could instantly feel the improved throttle response from all of the modifications, and the car really did feel like it was breathing better. Although the exhaust is a 3.0â€, I did not notice a reduction in low end torque, which I kind of expected due to the greater air mass that needed to be moved, combined with not having a map to suit. The car also held onto the torque at the high end revs a little better.
Wednesday came, and it was time to go to JKM for the Revo stage 2. I spoke to Keith the previous week to discuss my plans, and he said that without a high pressure fuel pump (HPFP) the car would not be able to perform to the optimum. He said that the stage 2 software is a much smoother map than stage 1, and is a lot more progressive. But the greater torque figures in the mid range mean that if the car is loaded (i.e. flooring it in 4th/5th on a motorway) then the standard fuel pump cannot cope with the increased fuelling, and the result is misfires and fuel cuts as fuel pressure becomes lower. He said that to combat this, he would have to turn the boost down accordingly so that the fuel pressure did not drop too much. I accepted this as he assured me that the Stage 2 map is so much more driveable and would fully complement the TBE and intake that I had fitted. Keith also said that the Carbonio that I had fitted is much better in terms of reducing potential fuel cut issues than a full CAI and induction system that would require the engine cover being taken off. He said that those systems are the best to go for, but as they bring in so much more air than the Carbonio, they accentuate the fuel pump issues (with a standard pump).
Anyway…got to JKM and Keith took my keys and was out for just over an hour with the car. Before he took the car he said how much he was looking forward to hearing the RSC exhaust – as he had never seen one in real life before. When he came back, his face gave off quite a surprised expression! His first words were something along the lines of:
“You had better be very careful when you get back into your car – it has taken very well to the map and it is a seriously quick car now!â€
He also commented that my choice of exhaust was “spot onâ€, and that he was “extremely impressed by both the sound quality and complete lack of droneâ€. He commented that the Milteks often sound quite boomy, and that the APR was perfect. He also said that the noise produced is very unorthodox for the TFSI engine, but is a really nice sound. Quite an interesting set of comments considering how highly JKM rate the Miltek exhausts!!
His look of surprise regarding the performance of the car shocked me because I thought he did things like this day in day out and my car would be pretty average to him! But upon questioning him, he described how he has only seen very few other GTI’s that have taken to the map as well, and that the result was that the car has been completely transformed.
My verdict: Oh my God. The car is a completely different car to how it was before the map. The pull is incredible in every gear. Ive driven some very fast cars in the past, but the GTI is right up there with the best of them (something that I was not expecting at all).
Traction is a serious problem however. It simply cannot get the power down in 1st and 2nd. In 3rd it torque steers a bit too, but traction is okish on a smooth road but still not perfect. I guess it’s a case of me getting used to it and modulating the throttle, but I wasn’t expecting it to be as bad as it was!
My final Revo settings were : Boost 6, Timing 6, Fuel 8.
I would love to have a ride in an ED30 with over 300hp from a map – after driving my GTI, I cant imagine how fast an ED30 must be. But surely you guys have major traction problems?!?!?
I think I’ll book a rolling road session at JKM within the next month to see how the car is performing after the map!
The Carbonio intake looks lovely, and Tuningwerkes and JKM have nothing but praise for much it is meant to improve airflow over the OEM intake.
The forge DV is of MUCH superior quality to the OEM valve – definitely recommended to all.
I can’t feel any difference from the ECS dogbone insert, but I trust that it is doing it’s job well – based upon others that have experience of using it.
I have to give full credit to Tuningwerkes (Reuben) and JKM Portsmouth (Keith) for doing such an excellent job. I would definitely recommend both. Also to Paul at APR UK for putting up with my endless telephone calls!!
Just out of interest…what other MK5 GTI’s (not ED30) are running stage 2 software at the moment? Off the top of my head the only person that I can think of is Red Robin?
Thanks for reading, and I hope that I can be of help to anyone that is currently considering any of the modifications that I have had fitted.
Chris.
-
spot on chris. happy for you fella. i just need to take the step of a stage1 and then cat back. like the sound of the apr. :wink:
-
excellent set of mods, enough to change the car completely
were and how much was the Forge DV if you dont mind me asking?
-
The valve at the bottom right is what you need
http://www.jkm.org.uk/performance/divertervalves.htm
I got mine from Tuningwerkes, for the same price as JKM offer in the link above :)
-
1. What do dogbones do?
2. Please get a recording of your exhaust. I wanna hear!
-
Sounds good mate, what about some pics of this exhaust?
-
Yeah good call K4ith. Pics are on their way now!!
Stealthwolf - here is the video posted on YouTube by someone from APR HQ in the USA.
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=8hzg2igCGOI
Fastforward to 1:32, I think thats the best representation of it. Or alternatively, if you are ever in the Surrey/Berkshire/Hampsire area then we can organise to meet up so that you can hear it! I fully understand the difficulties of trying to evaluate the sound of an exhaust through an internet video - hence why I would be more than happy to show you in real life! Alternatively Awesome GTI and Tuningwerkes are the only two dealers in the country that currently have this exhaust fitted to a MK5 GTi!
Thanks for the comments all :)
-
i've got an ed 30 with bluefin and carbonio. i've just had some vredestien sessantas put on all round, £93 per corner. it used to wheelspin all the way through 1st and 2nd and into third unless you were a bit gentler with the throttle, when it was on the original dunlop sh!tmax. it doesn't wheelspin half as much into second now and not at all in third, traction is way way better. might be worth thinking about some better hoops as your nxt upgrade.(dont know what your running at the moment). i think i'll have to look into another exhaust as well after reading your write up. enjoy :smiley:
-
get the car on some rollers and lets see what numbers its producing! :wink:
-
....
Yep, I'm running Stage2 but currently have a suspected boost leak which is keeping my power down to Stage1 levels.
My settings are B:7 / T:5 / F:9
Good to hear some good words about the Carbonio - Too many people just judge the cost of the carbonfibre and not it's efficiency. Do you have the Pipercross filter or another one?
You'll have to return my favour one day and take me out for a ride to hear your APR in real life.
Enjoy! :afro:
-
get the car on some rollers and lets see what numbers its producing! :wink:
....He's going to but he needs to let the remap and everything settle first.
-
currently mulling over the JKM K04 route or going Stage 2 you see.
£3k difference in cost out lay. Which gives better VFM????
-
currently mulling over the JKM K04 route or going Stage 2 you see.
£3k difference in cost out lay. Which gives better VFM????
Chop in the GTI for an Edition 30 would be less than £3k difference, surely?
-
currently mulling over the JKM K04 route or going Stage 2 you see.
£3k difference in cost out lay. Which gives better VFM????
Chop in the GTI for an Edition 30 would be less than £3k difference, surely?
+ at the end of the day you have a special edition motor :wink:
-
You'll have to return my favour one day and take me out for a ride to hear your APR in real life.
Enjoy! :afro:
Of course! They fitted the Pipercross filter for the time being, but I plan to wipe the filter oil off my ITG and put that back in :)
-
^^^^
That's a tricky choice, chungster. I think your answer would be in considering what additional mods you would spend the £3k difference on, so you can then decide based on which mods for the same money. Also the factor of how long you intend keeping the car.
-
lol.
My £3k diff calc is between going Stage 2 and doing the K04 conversion for my car.
Currently this is £2.5k vs £5.5k = £3k diff.
Is the difference between Stage 2 and K04 worth it?
Problem is I won't get much for my car (£12k-£13k) and probably need to pay more than £5k to get a 1 year old ED30 with the options i want. That makes modding and keeping the car a better choice.
-
They fitted the Pipercross filter for the time being, but I plan to wipe the filter oil off my ITG and put that back in :)
....The ITG is reputed to be the best you can get, but backing that up with hard scientific fact is quite another matter!
-
lol.
My £3k diff calc is between going Stage 2 and doing the K04 conversion for my car.
Currently this is £2.5k vs £5.5k = £3k diff.
Is the difference between Stage 2 and K04 worth it?
Problem is I won't get much for my car (£12k-£13k) and probably need to pay more than £5k to get a 1 year old ED30 with the options i want. That makes modding and keeping the car a better choice.
....Well, I think I'm right in saying that a modded Stage2 K03 GTI will 'outperform' a stock K04 Ed30. For example my Stage1 K03 GTI was plotting 230 bhp (same as stock Ed30). Personally, I'd be concerned about how to reduce traction issues if remapping/modding a K04 car - An additional £1.5k for a Quaife ATB, for example?
The quest for power must surely always be tempered by driveability and getting that power delivered.
-
But the ED30 will obviously need to be Revo'd lol.
true about traction...and is the extra grunt worth the extra £3k.
i can handle the £2.5k (already spent £2k which i can't believe lol ooops!) so total £4.5k on mods for Stage 2.
I dunno...this modding bug sucks!!!
-
I dunno...this modding bug sucks!!!
....If I recall correctly, you were just like Phil is now - Highly resistant to any modding! I'd take your time over any big decisions but it does make better financial sense to keep and mod your car - As long as it suits your lifestyle and you love it.
-
Whitegti, you need to let us know what your new figures are when you have gone back to JKM, standard GTi now stage 2 and APR exhaust.
should be interesting comparing those other Modded Normal GTi's.
Its Hard to keep it Standard, but a Catback System will make it sound lovelly. But the question is which now, Milltek or APR now listening to
WhiteGTi's system. :undecided:
-
Whitegti, you need to let us know what your new figures are when you have gone back to JKM, standard GTi now stage 2 and APR exhaust.
should be interesting comparing those other Modded Normal GTi's.
Its Hard to keep it Standard, but a Catback System will make it sound lovelly. But the question is which now, Milltek or APR now listening to
WhiteGTi's system. :undecided:
As I said to Stealthwolf, if your ever in the area Steve, then just give me a shout, and you can hear it in real life! There may be sound differences between a cat back and turbo back, but I think you will get the idea of the kind of sound that the APR makes, and you can certainly compare it to the Miltek which you have already heard. The RSC technology that eliminates the drone is all in the cat back - so you will still get the advantage of this :)
-
So what BHP do you think she's now pulling 240??
-
Hmm not really sure! From my research I found that most Revo Stage 2 TFSI engines were getting around 240-250. Then, those with a HPFP were getting around 255-265.
So I would hope to get 240 minimum :smiley: :smiley:
Will post graphs on here when I go back to JKM for a rolling road - will probably be late November!
-
Im sure Robins when fixed will pull between 240-250, his torque was up the 1st run a few months back on his 236bhp run. Im sure he's 10
ponnies short. Its just a question of time to find them
And yes would be good to hear yours to help me decide later for which zorst. I wonder if theres much diff in price between the systems for a
cat back only.
-
The APR RSC catback is around £300 more expensive than the Miltek. I guess that is because of the RSC technology.
I think it balances out when you go for a full turbo back system as the APR downpipe and sport cat is around £200 cheaper than the Miltek turboback :smiley:
-
I can officially confirm and ratify what Chris has said about his car! He took me out in it last week and although the roads weren't suitable to experience the power it felt v fast from what we did achieve. My main lust is for the exhaust, its simply amazing! I haven't heard a Milltek myself but im already smitten with the APR setup! its joyous to see so many people turn their heads when they hear it, and with the windows down it is frankly biblical!
I said before i got mine that I wouldn't be doing any serious mods but now ... I can hear APR whispering my name along with a remap, intake and forge DV! hahaha f**king forum! :evil: :smiley: that will have to wait until iv got a years no claims and its time to renew my insurance but I WILL be doing it, it just seems rude not to!
-
I can officially confirm and ratify what Chris has said about his car! He took me out in it last week and although the roads weren't suitable to experience the power it felt v fast from what we did achieve. My main lust is for the exhaust, its simply amazing! I haven't heard a Milltek myself but im already smitten with the APR setup! its joyous to see so many people turn their heads when they hear it, and with the windows down it is frankly biblical!
I said before i got mine that I wouldn't be doing any serious mods but now ... I can hear APR whispering my name along with a remap, intake and forge DV! hahaha f**king forum! :evil: :smiley: that will have to wait until iv got a years no claims and its time to renew my insurance but I WILL be doing it, it just seems rude not to!
Haha good lad!!!!!!!
-
I can officially confirm and ratify what Chris has said about his car! He took me out in it last week and although the roads weren't suitable to experience the power it felt v fast from what we did achieve. My main lust is for the exhaust, its simply amazing! I haven't heard a Milltek myself but im already smitten with the APR setup! its joyous to see so many people turn their heads when they hear it, and with the windows down it is frankly biblical!
I said before i got mine that I wouldn't be doing any serious mods but now ... I can hear APR whispering my name along with a remap, intake and forge DV! hahaha f**king forum! :evil: :smiley: that will have to wait until iv got a years no claims and its time to renew my insurance but I WILL be doing it, it just seems rude not to!
Haha good lad!!!!!!!
Thanks for the kind words. We'll give the car a better run next week.
Will definitely also sort out your modifications too, otherwise I think that Joesgti and TopCat are going to literally start crying hahaha :) :) :)
-
I can officially confirm and ratify what Chris has said about his car! He took me out in it last week and although the roads weren't suitable to experience the power it felt v fast from what we did achieve. My main lust is for the exhaust, its simply amazing! I haven't heard a Milltek myself but im already smitten with the APR setup! its joyous to see so many people turn their heads when they hear it, and with the windows down it is frankly biblical!
I said before i got mine that I wouldn't be doing any serious mods but now ... I can hear APR whispering my name along with a remap, intake and forge DV! hahaha f**king forum! :evil: :smiley: that will have to wait until iv got a years no claims and its time to renew my insurance but I WILL be doing it, it just seems rude not to!
Haha good lad!!!!!!!
Thanks for the kind words. We'll give the car a better run next week.
Will definitely also sort out your modifications too, otherwise I think that Joesgti and TopCat are going to literally start crying hahaha :) :) :)
should be interesting :grin:
-
1. What do dogbones do?
2. Please get a recording of your exhaust. I wanna hear!
Stealth - have a look at this thread, it may answer your question :)
http://www.golfgtiforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=93609.0
Chris.