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Model specific boards => Golf mk2 => Topic started by: drivebycar on 22 October 2008, 12:47
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I am doing an engine conversion this weekend, from my pb digi mk2 gti 8v, to a pb+AGG.
Basically the new engine is all ready build, I just need to take mine out, swap all the ancilliaries across, and put the new one in.
Ive got a good idea of what to do, just wondering whether there were anythings to look out for so I can be prepared!!
thanks :smiley:
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main thing to check is if it has the right dizzy, later 2.0 has a single window dizzy that wont work. if the block has a crank sensor then its the wrong type. Though wasnt it you I said this to already, and the block was out of a running MK2?
if you havent bought any, get new engine mounts, particualrly the rear engine one. get a 16v/g60 rear engine one as its nice n beefy plus the cheepy bonded rubber front & box mounts.
Check your steering rack closely for ripped boots and damaged track rod ends, engine out is the best time to do any rack repairs as access is much improved plus check the rack -> bulkhead UJ boot. Make sure you put in a new clutch kit, put the flywheel on the right way (check TDC mark is at the top when engine at TDC) and check the gearbox pushrod is ok, make sure its not mushroomed out.
Engine out is a good time to fit a bigger anti roll bar too!
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Yeah it was me you said it to!
It should have the dizzy and everything with it, plus I got a new dizzy cap and rotor arm for it.
Wheres the best place to get engine mounts from?
I dont really have that much money or time to get stuck in with all the other bits, as its my daily I need to get it all done in 2 days max.
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gsf will do for mounts, you can get away with just rear and do others later, they're easy to swap wi engine in. deffo check the rack over though, especially passenger side end and boot if ita a manual one as track rod has to be replaced as a complete unit which is very hard to do with engine in! (manual rack has fixed passenger rod & end)
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right o. :smiley:
With regard to the actual conversion, whats the best way to go about it?
Manifold/Downpipe Bolts, driveshaft/gearbox bolts, engine+gearbox mounts, wires and pipes ...
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what i do is this:
1. take off all the front end down, slam panel, rad, bumper, lower valance, radiator etc. Leave the front subframe where the front engine mount is bolted to for now.
2. Unplug all the wiring loom from engine, tuck out the way, and the accellerator and clutch cables, plus brake servo hose to inlet.
3. Undo the heater matrix hoses from side of head and metal pipe, and if you have good access take off the thermostat flange from waterpump, this drains last of the coolant from the block, remove header tank & pipes.
4. If you plan on replacing gearbox oil, drain it now, same with engine oil as it make everything that little bit lighter plus stops fluids leaking out when you shift things about, engine oil not that necessary but if the engine falls over it can come out
5. If car is on level surface, pop off handbrake and loosen off the driveshaft bolts (spline head, cantr recall size) push the car backwards as you go, till all 6 both sides undone. I did this without jacking up car, and thats with it lowered 40mm+
6. Take out speedo cable, take care with this as you dont want to drop the gear in, whatever you do dont pull hard! Wiggle gently and it should pop out easily, stuff a rag in the hole to stop anything falling in.
7. Disconnect the link rods from gearbox, and remove the top lever from the relay shaft as it gives a bit of room.
8. 3 choices here, do which you feel is easiest. I always go with a, never failed me yet:
a) Remove the inlet manifold bolts, they're allen head and you need a deep reach bit hammer fully home so you dont round, then remove 8 manifold nuts, last bolt is a pain need a ring spanner. Mole grips help too, there IS room to get them on the tricky bolt, just need patience and harsh language!
b) Remove 6 bolts from zaust mani/dp flange, leave both inlets on
c) disconnect downpipe from front silencer, leave both manifolds + dp attached to engine
9. Engine removal time! Undo 3 bolts from rear engine mount, top bolt from gearbox mount and top nut from front mount. Attach crane and lift it slowly till you see the front engine mount bracket lift off mount, rethread nut loosely. Undo both 17mm nuts holding front subframe on, front mount nut holds the subframe up makign this an easy job for 1 person, remove nut and front subframe.
10. Pull out the engine!
Refitting is reverse of removal, though I would fit the manifold/downpipe to car before refitting if you went with option c above as trying to get it to go down tunnel whilst on crane would be tricky! If you feel up to it though you could fit all to engine 1st, your call.
As you fit engine to car, pull the driveshafts forward and get them in the flange cups before you fit the engine in fully, sometimes theres no room to get them in later! I try to get 1 bolt threaded in a little to keep the shafts in place while I move the engine.
I did a complete ABF engine swap into my 16v MK2 by myself in 10 hours, and that included a bit of tinkering on the abf and replacement gearbox, just to give you hope that it IS possible to do it in a weekend! Trick is to be prepared and do as much as you possibly can to replacement engine before you even start tearing the car down.
edit: oh and get 8 copper manifold nuts, you'll thank yourself the next time you take the engine out!
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LEGEND!!!
Thanks for your help mate, is it still ok to give you a quick buzz if I hit any snags?
Cheers
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yeah no bother! I have to add the 10hour conversion was a basic block swap, I kept all zaust and managmnet. converting it to KR 16v spec from digi 8v took considerably longer, about 4 days hard graft :grin:
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Haha fk that!
Well I should be able to keep all my loom and everythign so im hoping it will be as simple as possible, otherwise I wouldnt be tackling it myself!
Bought loads of bits to give the new engine a good service before I put it in, so should be all good!
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one other thing, has the lump been sat with a sumpfull of oil or has it been drained? if its been drained the oil pump may need to be re-primed!
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Its been drained. how do you go about priming a fuel pump then? :laugh:
Also, how do you swap the gearbox over from the old block to the new one?
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oil pump ;)
you gotta take the sump off and then the oil pump, clean out the oil pickup then submerge the pickup in oil (I normally half fill the sump with fresh oil to do this) then pour oil in the top of the pump and spin the pump shaft till it flows out the top of the pump. quickly bolt the pump back on then the sump with the oil still in it!
do this with the engine in place as trying to do it while the engine is hanging off a crane will result in oil everywhere, as it wont be hanging straight. Learnt that the hard way :grin:
Course you could try filling it with oil and turning it over on the starter motor for up to a minute, you never know it might be ok. If oil light doesnt go out sump off time!
Gearbox you simply turn engine over to TDC, bolt on a new clutch, fit yopur old flywheel so TDC punch mark is at the top, bolt on box, job done.
I'd recommend you replace the input shaft seal, pushrod bush and the pushrod seal on the gearbox though, or at least check the pushrod for play. Pushrod is the metal thing that sticks out of the splined bit in middle of gearbox belhousing when you lift clutch lever ;)
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You do NOT need to take the sump off and etc etc to prime an oil pump.
Just remove the dizzi and find the right size socket that goes over the oil pump drive shaft that the dizzi fits down on.
Get a socket extension bar and put that in the chuck of a drill or drill-driver. If the chuck's not big enough grind down the extension so it fits. Now spin the pump over until it picks up the oil and primes. You'll know when it primes because it'll pretty much stall the drill.
Now refit the dizzi and praise the lord that you've not wasted ages messing about taking the sump off.
In fairness when I asked the question about priming an oil pump of a guy I know who does a lot of TDI conversions on T25s he said 'I never bother - just fire them up, if they don't prime up then there's something wrong with the pump and I've never had one not prime on start up'.
You could waste a lot of time trying to get a pump to prime on the starter - the engine might well not be spinning fast enough to prime a dry pump.
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I have tried priming atotally dry pump before, I found it never picks up any oil as the gears just spin without enough suction. Though this was me trying it out by hand on a brand new out of the box pump in a sump of oil, just to see what would happen.
I guess if it was spun fast enough it could work, that plus if it was bolted up more suction could occur? Certainly worth a go before stripping the sump off, good tip!
I did the starter trick on my girlfriends polo but that was without a head on so it span over a lot quicker, wreeeeee splooge, oil everywhere :grin:
As I said, if its spun for more than a minute on starter with no result, its not gonna happen.
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Best of luck with the conversion buddy!
Currently doing the same in my car! :cool: (but im doing it in a bit more than a weekend! :grin:)
Cant wait to read about how it all goes?! and how different it is to drive?!
cheers
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i'm collecting info at the mo for my conversion :)
let me know how it goes / what too look out for
can i use my disy from my PB motor into the 2.0 bottom end ???
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i'm collecting info at the mo for my conversion :)
let me know how it goes / what too look out for
can i use my disy from my PB motor into the 2.0 bottom end ???
Theres an adapter ring available.. though i iamgine you can find a 2E dizzy easy enough? must be early type, late type only have 1 window not 4 for spark so will not do it :smiley:
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would just fitting a 2e motor not work ?? there is one on marktplaats( dutch type of ebay ) for 300 euro's but i think i could get it for 200 :)
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when i did mine i had engine out the hard way (split from box and all front end left on it was a laff but then you learn) swapped heads fit new clutch and back in in one day then on day 2 it was all plumbed in and wired up then wouldnt start so retimed engine then heard a metallic noise and engine stopped turning so thought valve contact so head back off all ok so head back on wouldnt start it tried fire but wouldnt (if only i had known i needed a 2e dizzy)
got 2e dizzy and it fired straight away
not a bad job to do once you know whats needed i just went about it the hard way
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easier to start with a 2e, but if you get a later block as said bin the dizzy and fit a 2e one, the only other difference you have to worry about is the crank sensor, but just leave it in and chop the wires off!
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those wires are most usefull if want to install megasqyirt at a later date
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ok cool what date / age of engine did the dissy change ??
can you tell if this is an early or later engine ??
http://link.marktplaats.nl/201791051 (http://link.marktplaats.nl/201791051)
plus this has a multi rib belt with no pas so will my front pulley bolt on ?? and can i still fit my pas pump to the block ?
thank's phil
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Best of luck with the conversion buddy!
Currently doing the same in my car! :cool: (but im doing it in a bit more than a weekend! :grin:)
Cant wait to read about how it all goes?! and how different it is to drive?!
cheers
i'm collecting info at the mo for my conversion :)
let me know how it goes / what too look out for
can i use my disy from my PB motor into the 2.0 bottom end ???
Yeah I might be trying it this weekend or maybe next weekend now, but I will definately let everyone know how I get on! Got to collect up a few more bits first :drool:
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those wires are most usefull if want to install megasqyirt at a later date
yeah but dan, you wouldnt recommend to use a 10 year old+ crank sensor with megasquirt would you? ;)
ok cool what date / age of engine did the dissy change ??
can you tell if this is an early or later engine ??
http://link.marktplaats.nl/201791051 (http://link.marktplaats.nl/201791051)
plus this has a multi rib belt with no pas so will my front pulley bolt on ?? and can i still fit my pas pump to the block ?
thank's phil
That looks liek a 2e motor to me, your old pas pump setup wont bolt to it unless you also remove all the 2e alternator etc and put your old ones on, which I wouldnt recommend! Go out and find any 1.8+ MK3 Golf with PAS and steal all the pas brackets and pullets from it, they'll boltright up to that block plus its a much better setup than the MK2 system!
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and my pump bolt's to the mk3 bracket's ?? what about the balt ?? do you swap the pulley off the mk3 onto my mk2 pump ? or just use the mk3 pump
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no you need all the mk3 pas pump, belts, brackets and pulleys :)
There is 2 brackets on the bottom of the block, plus an extra one with the pas pump inside, take these plus all the bolts that hold them on. Alos there is an extra pulley bolted to the crank pulley, I would just pull both crank pulleys straight off the car.
P.S. the ABF pulley is no good to you should you happen to stumble across one, but I'm sure you know if you did find an ABF pulley you would want to take the whole engine not just a pulley ;)
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does this apply to my conversion? my digi PAS wont fit on the agg block?
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it will if you use all the old digi alternator & pulley setup as well, but as I said to sidecarphil, if you can keep the MK3 setup its much better! The MK2 lines fit straight on the MK3 pump if thats what you were worried about, thisis what I had on my old 2e block and also on my ABF :)
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So it will fit as it is. Just a mk3 setup would work better.
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indeed! if you've ever done a pas belt on a MK2, then done it on a MK3 you'll know exactly why I always recommend the MK3 setup ;)
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:tongue: Cant say I have, but ill be replacing that before I put it all back together!
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trust me on this, get mk3 ;)
i could do 3 mk3 belts in the time it takes to do a mk2 belt :grin:
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Its just more things to buy though and my budget is getting pretty stretched. Im going to do the clutch as well now and im running out of pennies! :laugh:
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fair enough,at least you'll get a good idea of how it all works once you get it unbolted :)
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Thats the plan! I figure once I start taking bits apart I will know how it works.
Learnt quite alot putting a new HG and Head on with a mate, so engine conversion is the next step :laugh:
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so an ABF motor is better than a 2E motor ??
what was the abf in and is there a big visual differance between them ????
whist doing the conversion i take it you upgrade the camshaft , so do you still use a 1.8 gti cam or use one for a 2.0 ??
which is the best cam to use ? i have had a set of newman cam's in my old calibra turbo and they were fabulous :)
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ABF is the 2.0 16v fitted to the MK3 and some SEAT modesl :)
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one of them
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v643/dannyp1595/16v%20stuff/ABFengine.jpg)
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ok so do you keep it as a 16v or change the head to the 8v ??
cheers for the info i'm just searching for knowlege
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keep the engine complete!
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now i am confused :undecided: :undecided:
so put a 16v in an 8v car using 8v managment :huh: :huh:
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no, use the abf managment. if you find an abf that is.