GolfGTIforum.co.uk
Model specific boards => Golf mk2 => Topic started by: Diluxe on 20 October 2008, 12:58
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Hi All,
I only drive my golf one day a week to work 15 miles to keep it turning over, today i noticed it struugled to turnover, and would keep misfiring, the moment i took my foot of the accelerator, it would just die, kept my foot on the accelerator and got it going again but there was blue smoke everywhere, held it at about 2k revs until the misfiring , (smoke dissappeared about same time) disappeared and it idled on its own around 1k.
Drove to work no smoke no isuues , no high temps, any ideas whats causing the misfire & heavy blue smoke?
cheers
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blue smoke would suggest it's burning oil. missfire could be something to do with the timing, did you check it when you done the conversion?
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yeah timings all good, went through MOT about 2 months ago, had the CO adjust then , and its been ok, not mad powerful, but started everytime no problem, if its burning oil, does that mean major money spend?
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depends how much oil it's using. if only a wee bit it might be stem seals, or more could be piston rings. did you get it compression tested at any point? might be worth a shout.
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yeah a couple of months ago, everything seemed fine.
I did replace the stem seals, and change the headgasket,,,, could something have gone wrong there?
It hasnt done alot of miles since conversion, 500 hundred tops
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how long has the fuel been in there? pop off the dizzy cap and make sure its not full of oil, take off the fei & tci plugs check for corrosion etc. worth running it at night too, check if you can see anything arcing anywhere.
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i only ever put in a tenner in at time, and it lasts me 2 weeks, whats efi & Tci plugs mate?
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fully electronic ignition = basically what people call the 'ecu' even though it isnt technically!
transistorized coil ignition = the wee metal 7 pin thing screwed to the bracket above the fei :)
fuel should be ok, had a prob with my mates car due to old fuel! worth checkin the in-tank lift pump works, pull the plug off the main pump and turn the key 1 click, lifty pump should be heard to prime
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ah those two :grin:
yeah checked the lifter pump at lunch time today, pulled the plug of the main pump, it buzzes not very loud , but can be heard
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that'll be reet then, perhaps you have leaky injectors and/or 5th injector, fillin a cyly up wi fuel
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When you did the compression test, did you test dry and 'wet' after a squirt of oil into the cylinders?
If there's a difference it could be that the rings are shot.
Has the metering head had a knock at all? They're such sensitive little petals that it might have taken against you because of something that happened to it.
From your description it points at the fifth injector or something else to do with the cold-start circuit - it maybe spraying/dribbling too much and trying to flood the car.
What was it converted from and to?
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they only dry tested, all had similair results i believe.
okay i can understand leaky injectors make it difficult to start, but would they also lead to the heavy blue smoke, which clears up after about 3 minutes?
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Mine does a milder version of what yours is doing, and I reckon its stem seals (mainly due to the colour of the smoke), although I am yet to do a compression test to check. Apparently if your valve guides are worn, the new stem seals can be ruined in less than a week, so even though you've had them replaced, it might need the guides doing too.
Post up any progress you make.
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havent had a chance to look over the car since last post, started it up yesterday & it wasnt smoking at all, apart from some condensation build up but definitely no blue smoke, the only thing i did do was unplug the throttle switch before starting up.
The difference this made was amazing, it idled far better, and before when i feathered the throttle the car would want to stutter and die immediately until it had built up some heat.
is the switch faulty or something linked to it?
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Which switch did you disconnect?
Picture for avoidance of doubt, please.
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the black box thing bottom right of picture
http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d96/diluxe/IMAGE_056.jpg
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hmm, the idle switch sends power to the metal vacuum switch round the back of the metering head off idle, worth having a look at it. At idle it sends 12v to the idle control unit, so that could also suggest theres summat up with that or some of the idle control gubbins. Check all your vac lines for damage too.
If the vac unit wires were shorting out it'll be sending 12v constantly to the 5th injector till the thermoswitch on the side of the head switches off, whenever the throttle is off idle.
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do you mean that flying saucer like thing that sits at the rear of the airbox on the left? what does it actually do?
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its for enriching the fuel mixture a tad when cold, when you put a load on the engine off idle. i.e. floor it to pull away, it makes the 5th inj chuck a bit more fuel in.
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I've never been able to figure out how these things work that only have two wires going into them, :laugh:
I wonder how it gives a reading to what ever its connected too fire the 5th injector?
I've fired the car over on a cold day with the 5th injector out and it definitely did not fire, but I read somewhere that it never gets cold enough in this country for the 5th injector ever to be used?
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the idle switch gets 12v from the ignition, and when the throttle is off the stop it creates a circuit to the white wire, sending 12v to the vacuum switch. Then when the vacuum switch 'sees' the correct vacuum condition it closes and sends 12v to pin 15a on the starter motor which is also where the 5th inj is plugged in (hence why this pin has 2 wires to it) therefore sending 12v to the 5th injector. This then earths thru the coolant sensor on the side of the block :)
The temp sensor on the side of the head switches at 30degreees C, so it will always fire when stone cold, though the heater inside it will soon shut it off if its warm out and residual heat after sutting off the engien will keep it off for a while. That being said it doesnt get cold enough that often for the engine to actually need it to fire in order to start ;)
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the idle switch gets 12v from the ignition, and when the throttle is off the stop it creates a circuit to the white wire, sending 12v to the vacuum switch. Then when the vacuum switch 'sees' the correct vacuum condition it closes and sends 12v to pin 15a on the starter motor which is also where the 5th inj is plugged in (hence why this pin has 2 wires to it) therefore sending 12v to the 5th injector. This then earths thru the coolant sensor on the side of the block :)
The temp sensor on the side of the head switches at 30degreees C, so it will always fire when stone cold, though the heater inside it will soon shut it off if its warm out and residual heat after sutting off the engien will keep it off for a while. That being said it doesnt get cold enough that often for the engine to actually need it to fire in order to start ;)
Apologies, can I briefly divert the topic...
Jonny, what would happen if the electrical connector on the starter motor wasn't connected - i.e. I the connector that leads to the 5th injector. Does this meant the 5th injector would never-ever "fire"??
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this would stop it firing when you start the car when cold, but it wouldn't disable the cold fuel load enrichment from the vaccum switch :)
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this would stop it firing when you start the car when cold, but it wouldn't disable the cold fuel load enrichment from the vaccum switch :)
Ta!
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the idle switch gets 12v from the ignition, and when the throttle is off the stop it creates a circuit to the white wire, sending 12v to the vacuum switch. Then when the vacuum switch 'sees' the correct vacuum condition it closes and sends 12v to pin 15a on the starter motor which is also where the 5th inj is plugged in (hence why this pin has 2 wires to it) therefore sending 12v to the 5th injector. This then earths thru the coolant sensor on the side of the block :)
The temp sensor on the side of the head switches at 30degreees C, so it will always fire when stone cold, though the heater inside it will soon shut it off if its warm out and residual heat after sutting off the engien will keep it off for a while. That being said it doesnt get cold enough that often for the engine to actually need it to fire in order to start ;)
cheers that helps alot , so I should be able to see 12V at the flying saucer like thing, if i take the leaver of the switch?, also what is this pin15a on the starter motor, i'm pretty sure my starter motor only has 2 wires going to it, and one piggy backing from the alternator on itys way to the battery, so i'm not sure if my 5th injector is powered up.............
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yeah you should get 12v at the white wire on the saucer with the throttle open, 15a is the 2nd spade terminal on the starter motor, which generally only k-jet motors have. If you only have 1 spade on the starter then you dont have a 16v starter motor, though all this means is you wont get any fuel spray from the 5th injector when turning it over on the starter stone cold. I had my 5th injector unplugged for ages and it didnt seem to make any difference, I dont think it gets cold ienough in the UK for the 5th injector to be needed really.
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its for enriching the fuel mixture a tad when cold, when you put a load on the engine off idle. i.e. floor it to pull away, it makes the 5th inj chuck a bit more fuel in.
does it only add extra fuel when your floor it from cold or all the time?
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its for enriching the fuel mixture a tad when cold, when you put a load on the engine off idle. i.e. floor it to pull away, it makes the 5th inj chuck a bit more fuel in.
does it only add extra fuel when your floor it from cold or all the time?
The K-Jet page says as its controlled by the thermotime switch, then yes, only when cold:
15.1.11 The Cold Start Injector
To aid the starting of the engine an additional injector is located into the inlet manifold, this sprays fuel into the engine at systems pressure when the engine temperature is cold and the starter motor is activated. The length of time that this additional injector sprays is determined by the engine's temperature, seen by the thermo time switch.
The thermo time switch provides the earth path for the cold start injector via a heated bi-metalic strip, this heater is activated by a voltage from the starter motor. As the strip heats, over a period of approximately 8 to 10 seconds (when cranking only), the legs on the bi-metalic strip separate and the earth path is lost.
A warm engine will perhaps only require 2 seconds before the circuit is broken and a hot engine will already show open circuit. This simple circuit is to avoid the engine being flooded when cranking and the additional enrichment only given when essential, see illustration below.
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I'm not so sure? I bench tested 3 of these things, and from what I could see the earth path was only interupted when voltage was applied to the heater pin. I had em all in boiling water for ages to no effect, but as soon as I rigged up the heater pole to a battery the earth path was lost.
If they are supposed to work like that then that would suggest when cranking for a few seconds the earth path is lost, but at all times when you boot it some fuel enrichment is supplied.
However I might have a load of bust ones though, I need to do some on-car testing I think :undecided:
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Have you tested it yet?
How about now?
Now?
Come'on Mr RJ!!! Really want to know the answer to this as mine is currently unplugged and could be loosing me a few BHP!! :smiley:
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the 5th injector is electrically powered right? so if it does give more enrichment on WOT something must control it other than the connection through the thermotime switch :undecided:
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yes, the ide switch as I posted earlier ;)
the thermotime switch only provides the earth path, the live path is provided either by the feed from the starter motor, or the 'throttle open' feed from the throttle switch.
when turning over on the starter the thermotime switch also gets 12v which switches on an internal heater and cuts the earth path after a few seconds. My last post I mentioned that under testing it seemed like the earth path would only be interupted when the heater wire is getting 12v which would result ina bit of throttle enrichmnet at all times. However it could be all my thermo switches are bust or I was missing something when testing...