GolfGTIforum.co.uk
Model specific boards => Golf mk5 => Topic started by: Hurdy on 07 October 2008, 04:13
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So everyone,
I've been reading the GOLF+ feature on the 2.0 TFSI engine and the various upgrades that are available with the stock K04 on the ED30 and the upgrades from the standard GTI to a K04. Most say that they are only tuning into the early 300+bhp, but what exactly is the limit of the ED30 in terms of power and bhp without changing the turbo, but changing all the other bits that count (remap, zorst, HPFP, I/C etc).
Tuners all seem to be quoting between 300 to 340bhp :undecided: and up to 335lbft.
I already know Vtec has managed over 360lbft and I have had 333bhp, so surely these must be approaching the upper limits?
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Why is it an ed30 with a wrong bore exhaust (2.75'' instead of Correct 3'' has this super high 360Lbs ft of torque??? , How can that be, surely thats gonna have a prefound effect on the Engines potential torque??.Isnt that just like putting a Cat back system on instead of a Full System???.
Im Bemused??.
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Why is it an ed30 with a wrong bore exhaust (2.75'' instead of Correct 3'' has this super high 360Lbs ft of torque??? , How can that be, surely thats gonna have a prefound effect on the Engines potential torque??.Isnt that just like putting a Cat back system on instead of a Full System???.
Im Bemused??.
I was a little suprised that it made the torque it did to be honest. But it did it on 6 different runs on 2 different days. Would still like to see what it makes on other rollers to compare though..
As for the DP, fook knows. Might have something to do with the back pressure.. :huh: TT? I know DJ Horace said he wished he had gone with the 2.75" now instead of the 3".. :huh:
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Phil my comments
It seems to be a strong std car
Its on APR rollers (which may read high)
Its on that style of dyno (dynamic) with various correction factors
REVO hits very quickly at low rpm (very noticeable in Hurdys prev graph comparisons) , so maybe this combined with the way its measured skews the 'measured' torque peak
We would need a before/graph for vtecs car on the same dyno/same day (pre and post mods)
I'd be interested to see Vtecs EGR readings under full load tbh
as for the exhaust, I think the milltek still removes some of the other restrictions.
Small bore can be better in terms of flow at lower rates.
This in theory could help the very quick spool/torque peak seen in vtecs car
What we dont see though is the higher rpm 'limits' that supposedly tuners say we need a 3 inch bore for!
In theory vtecs car should perform better at lower rpm then flatline at say 6500rpm ?
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Why is it an ed30 with a wrong bore exhaust (2.75'' instead of Correct 3'' has this super high 360Lbs ft of torque??? , How can that be, surely thats gonna have a prefound effect on the Engines potential torque??.Isnt that just like putting a Cat back system on instead of a Full System???.
Im Bemused??.
I was a little suprised that it made the torque it did to be honest. But it did it on 6 different runs on 2 different days. Would still like to see what it makes on other rollers to compare though..
As for the DP, fook knows. Might have something to do with the back pressure.. :huh: TT? I know DJ Horace said he wished he had gone with the 2.75" now instead of the 3".. :huh:
i have an idea i will put my stock dp back on the car for the rr day and then me and ben will be running the same but me on stock dp and ben tell us what revo settings your running and i will run the same and then we will see what happens.
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Is the stock DP 2.75"??? :shocked:
At the end of the day guys, I don't see mine being anymore powerfull than other ED30 with the same mods. K4iths ED30 ran only anout 10bhp short of mine on the same day, but he only had the Map and intake, no TBE.
Mat's will be a good test, as he also has Revo and Milltek, plus a few other little bits. So on the same rollers should make for interesting results. Only thing is, what rollers, Prosport or Weston's? :undecided: As if us guys at Prosport get good results, then I can just see the same arguments coming up again about whether they're as good as DD rollers..
What to do eh.. :sad:
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Oh crap (doh!), Mat don't forget i'm Stage 2 now.. What difference it'll make I don't know, a little bit I hope.. :wink:
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Oh crap (doh!), Mat don't forget i'm Stage 2 now.. What difference it'll make I don't know, a little bit I hope.. :wink:
thats ok fella i have a mate who is a revo dealer in halifax so might get it put on :wink: but keep stock dp just to see how it goes.
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Oh crap (doh!), Mat don't forget i'm Stage 2 now.. What difference it'll make I don't know, a little bit I hope.. :wink:
thats ok fella i have a mate who is a revo dealer in halifax so might get it put on :wink: but keep stock dp just to see how it goes.
Only £50 sheets mate, so may as well..
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you are stage 2 not stage 2 + as you dont have a pump
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you are stage 2 not stage 2 + as you dont have a pump
Yes mate, Stage 2 (not +)..
You coming sat or what? :grin:
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you are stage 2 not stage 2 + as you dont have a pump
Yes mate, Stage 2 (not +)..
You coming sat or what? :grin:
not sure yet will have too see as the wife has a long weekend off so will know at the weekend. mmmm revo stage 2 or pod :undecided:
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I will have the same dp as ben on friday along with stage 2 so our mods will be identical. So we will see at the rr day if the 2.75 dowpipe is whats making the torque. Im sure the one me and ben have is 3" reducing to 2.75 and the one for the ed30/leon cupra/s3 is 3" all the way?
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this will be very interesting to see, Looking foward to hearing your results to see if any comparisons can be found. :smiley:
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I will have the same dp as ben on friday along with stage 2 so our mods will be identical. So we will see at the rr day if the 2.75 dowpipe is whats making the torque. Im sure the one me and ben have is 3" reducing to 2.75 and the one for the ed30/leon cupra/s3 is 3" all the way?
Where you getting it done Luca?
EDIT... Cancel that, just seen your other post.. Doh! :grin:
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should i get stage 2 put on but put stock dp on just to see what it does as i have the filter and dv and stage 1 and then do the rr day just to see what figures i get?
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should i get stage 2 put on but put stock dp on just to see what it does as i have the filter and dv and stage 1 and then do the rr day just to see what figures i get?
Can do mate. So long as it's not to much of a pain n the ass to do..
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should i get stage 2 put on but put stock dp on just to see what it does as i have the filter and dv and stage 1 and then do the rr day just to see what figures i get?
Can do mate. So long as it's not to much of a pain n the ass to do..
no probs for me at all i do my own work and fit my own stuff :tongue:
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should i get stage 2 put on but put stock dp on just to see what it does as i have the filter and dv and stage 1 and then do the rr day just to see what figures i get?
Can do mate. So long as it's not to much of a pain n the ass to do..
no probs for me at all i do my own work and fit my own stuff :tongue:
May as well then mate.. I take it this is @ Prosport RR day yeah?
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i will get the dp off this week and then go to redline racing who is revo dealer and get stage 2 put on and then see how she goes for the rr day at stockport at the end of the month
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i will get the dp off this week and then go to redline racing who is revo dealer and get stage 2 put on and then see how she goes for the rr day at stockport at the end of the month
Mat is the standard DP the same as the Milltek GTI DP??? :huh:
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i will get the dp off this week and then go to redline racing who is revo dealer and get stage 2 put on and then see how she goes for the rr day at stockport at the end of the month
Mat is the standard DP the same as the Milltek GTI DP??? :huh:
there is not much in it but the milltek has the hight flow cat, it will be good to see if the back pressure helps with the stock dp and stage 2
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Only one way to find out.. :wink:
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Only one way to find out.. :wink:
it will be done this week then
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Bugger!! :sad:
Just logged on and saw 23 posts to this thread and then found 20 posts about swapping exhausts for the RR day :lipsrsealed:
Come on you guys, stop spamming and going off topic and get with the thread!
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all in the aid of research fella
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I think 330 BHP is attainable in the ED30 without spending too much money. I would expect my car to be pulling that figure and I think all in all I have spent about 2k on engine mods which is a small price to pay for such incredible performance. I guess there is no limits with tuning of the ED30 if you have got the money to spend, 400BHP plus has been done already with an ED30 as proved in a recent thread, but obviously a bigger turbo has been added and the internals of the engine have been uprated. If you have no concerns about risking the life of the engine and spending silly amounts of money you can set your own limits!! :laugh: :smiley:
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515bhp :evil: i know big turbo but i think 350ish is prob about right from ko4
http://www.vag-tuner.com/acatalog/Regal_Autosport_Project_Golf_GTi_MK5_2.0T_FSi.html
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what about injectors being changed :undecided:
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515bhp :evil: i know big turbo but i think 350ish is prob about right from ko4
http://www.vag-tuner.com/acatalog/Regal_Autosport_Project_Golf_GTi_MK5_2.0T_FSi.html
another dodgy set of rollers :evil: :laugh:
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515bhp :evil: i know big turbo but i think 350ish is prob about right from ko4
http://www.vag-tuner.com/acatalog/Regal_Autosport_Project_Golf_GTi_MK5_2.0T_FSi.html
nuts
"Why?!"
"Because I can!"
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what about injectors being changed :undecided:
JBS added larger injectors to mine when they added the HPFP, but it was agreed that they would remove them if they didn't see a worthwhile increase in performance.......They took them off! :wink:
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i always thought it was strange as i had a cupra r (225bhp) they are a K04 turbo, stage 2 apr mapped and the gain was about 50bhp over stock so the 2.0t is getting 100bhp it does seem a bit mad but i am happy with it :evil:
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what about injectors being changed :undecided:
JBS added larger injectors to mine when they added the HPFP, but it was agreed that they would remove them if they didn't see a worthwhile increase in performance.......They took them off! :wink:
so the stock injectors are good for the fuel so it needs the pump to give it more grunt, what about a port and polish of the head ?
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i always thought it was strange as i had a cupra r (225bhp) they are a K04 turbo, stage 2 apr mapped and the gain was about 50bhp over stock so the 2.0t is getting 100bhp it does seem a bit mad but i am happy with it :evil:
until the black swan appears, that is, until the engine packs up..
Really,
I have NOTHING but a 305/410Nm map, no uprated IC, no wider exhaust... and I like to step on it, too (last speeding ticket - 90 GBP, thank God not the licence!). But sometimes I wonder how long my engine will stay healthy, and not pack up one way or the other (turbo gone, dp gone, oil leaks, or something like that). We know that E30 engine is not S3 engine, for one thing...
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i always thought it was strange as i had a cupra r (225bhp) they are a K04 turbo, stage 2 apr mapped and the gain was about 50bhp over stock so the 2.0t is getting 100bhp it does seem a bit mad but i am happy with it :evil:
until the black swan appears, that is, until the engine packs up..
Really,
I have NOTHING but a 305/410Nm map, no uprated IC, no wider exhaust... and I like to step on it, too (last speeding ticket - 90 GBP, thank God not the licence!). But sometimes I wonder how long my engine will stay healthy, and not pack up one way or the other (turbo gone, dp gone, oil leaks, or something like that). We know that E30 engine is not S3 engine, for one thing...
i know the guy that owns my old car and its still going strong with only one prob and it was a fooked coilpack
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Time will tell with the modded ed30 engines. I can see them lasting a long time if looked after. As long as good oil is used, car is warmed up properly, turbo cooled down properly etc then there should be no problems. Adding a bigger downpipe and intercooler will probably help the engine life as the intercooler will keep the inlet temps down and the hot gases from the exhaust will escape quicker with the bigger downpipe.
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what about injectors being changed :undecided:
JBS added larger injectors to mine when they added the HPFP, but it was agreed that they would remove them if they didn't see a worthwhile increase in performance.......They took them off! :wink:
so the stock injectors are good for the fuel so it needs the pump to give it more grunt, what about a port and polish of the head ?
Yup, went through that one too. The stock heads are already very well designed and the cost of having a port and polish wouldn't be worth the investment.
Thought about high lift cams though, schrick do 2.0TFSi ones, but I haven't got around to asking if they are the same as the ED30 ones :undecided:
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i dont think they would be worth the outlay if you ask me, time to put them in and then having it mapped to suit. i would get the diff done as it will put the power down better so would be best thing to do.
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Definately a diff would be more worthwhile than a cam. Although schrick make very good cams :smiley:.
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or if you are feeling brave
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/AUDI-RS4-B7-4-2-V8-FSI-ENGINE-LOOM-GEARBOX-ECU-COMPLETE_W0QQitemZ270282880356QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item270282880356&_trkparms=72%3A1350|39%3A1|66%3A2|65%3A12|240%3A1318&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14
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Definately a diff would be more worthwhile than a cam. Although schrick make very good cams :smiley:.
they do as a mate of mine has them in his r32 golf and loves them
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Why is it an ed30 with a wrong bore exhaust (2.75'' instead of Correct 3'' has this super high 360Lbs ft of torque??? , How can that be, surely thats gonna have a prefound effect on the Engines potential torque??.Isnt that just like putting a Cat back system on instead of a Full System???.
Im Bemused??.
I was a little suprised that it made the torque it did to be honest. But it did it on 6 different runs on 2 different days. Would still like to see what it makes on other rollers to compare though..
As for the DP, fook knows. Might have something to do with the back pressure.. :huh: TT? I know DJ Horace said he wished he had gone with the 2.75" now instead of the 3".. :huh:
What was the question? :huh: :undecided:
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i will get the dp off this week and then go to redline racing who is revo dealer and get stage 2 put on and then see how she goes for the rr day at stockport at the end of the month
Mat is the standard DP the same as the Milltek GTI DP??? :huh:
there is not much in it but the milltek has the hight flow cat, it will be good to see if the back pressure helps with the stock dp and stage 2
Isn't tha downpipe and cat 1 piece on the milltek?
And don't you need said downpipe and sports cat to go to stage 2?
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Time will tell with the modded ed30 engines. I can see them lasting a long time if looked after. As long as good oil is used, car is warmed up properly, turbo cooled down properly etc then there should be no problems.
But pushing any engine to its upper limits is more likely to do more serious damage to the major internals. A fooked turbo will be the least of your worries - conrods will be the items which are most likely to let go!
Adding a bigger downpipe and intercooler will probably help the engine life as the intercooler will keep the inlet temps down and the hot gases from the exhaust will escape quicker with the bigger downpipe.
Not really. IATs wont have any effect on engine longevity.
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Definately a diff would be more worthwhile than a cam. Although schrick make very good cams :smiley:.
But the diff is in the gearbox! Isn't this thread discussing the options and limitations of the engine? :wink:
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Definately a diff would be more worthwhile than a cam. Although schrick make very good cams :smiley:.
But the diff is in the gearbox! Isn't this thread discussing the options and limitations of the engine? :wink:
Think he was just saying if he was going to spend that sort of money on a mod it would be a diff rather than cams
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or if you are feeling brave
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/AUDI-RS4-B7-4-2-V8-FSI-ENGINE-LOOM-GEARBOX-ECU-COMPLETE_W0QQitemZ270282880356QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item270282880356&_trkparms=72%3A1350|39%3A1|66%3A2|65%3A12|240%3A1318&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14
I already have one of them! :tongue: :tongue: :tongue: :tongue:
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i will get the dp off this week and then go to redline racing who is revo dealer and get stage 2 put on and then see how she goes for the rr day at stockport at the end of the month
Mat is the standard DP the same as the Milltek GTI DP??? :huh:
there is not much in it but the milltek has the hight flow cat, it will be good to see if the back pressure helps with the stock dp and stage 2
Isn't tha downpipe and cat 1 piece on the milltek?
And don't you need said downpipe and sports cat to go to stage 2?
have a look at stock exhaust
http://www.golfmkv.net/blog/archives/20
milltek is in 4 parts
(http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d122/mat138l/MIltekgolfgtifullsystem.jpg)
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Yeah but what Gaz is saying Mat (and I didn't realise it till now) is that the downpipe and sports cat are as one. So if you're on about putting the original downpipe back on, surely you'll be putting the original cat back on with it, which will certainly affect your RR figures and won't allow stage 2.. :undecided:
Or am I wrong? Not a mechanic.. :huh:
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thats exactly what I was saying Ben, the downpipe and cat are 1 piece, the next part milltek call the connecting pipe, then you have the rear section resonated or non-res. I'm sure you need the downpipe and sports cat for stage 2 :smiley:
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If you are wanting to put more than 300bhp in the ED30 imo you need to look at the engine mounts being uprated, very least the dog bone.If you trackday, 1/4 mile then i would uprate the others too the best scenario adding a quaffe/pelq dif then i think you can handle the 330bhp.
Tuners can add silly amounts of bhp to their cars as they are advertising cars, parts cheap and when it goes wrong they can fix it at a better price than joe public could.They keep them for a while then sell them on.When the mk6 comes out the likes of regal, awesome will be first in the Q.
when the 2.0 tfsi first came out tuners advised no need to go upto 3" system the 2.75" was adequate enough. Now its the reverse.
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thats exactly what I was saying Ben, the downpipe and cat are 1 piece, the next part milltek call the connecting pipe, then you have the rear section resonated or non-res. I'm sure you need the downpipe and sports cat for stage 2 :smiley:
yes i know i would be putting stock cat back on thats the point i am not convinced and would like to know what the change will be against Ben and Luca with stage 2 maps. its me being curious thats all as to if you do need the pipe or not and what is the differance in torque and bhp or does it only help when you have a fule pump done :smiley:
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thats exactly what I was saying Ben, the downpipe and cat are 1 piece, the next part milltek call the connecting pipe, then you have the rear section resonated or non-res. I'm sure you need the downpipe and sports cat for stage 2 :smiley:
yes i know i would be putting stock cat back on thats the point i am not convinced and would like to know what the change will be against Ben and Luca with stage 2 maps. its me being curious thats all as to if you do need the pipe or not and what is the differance in torque and bhp or does it only help when you have a fule pump done :smiley:
I wouldn't advise putting a stage 2 map on your car mate without the DP and sports cat, really wouldn't..
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thats exactly what I was saying Ben, the downpipe and cat are 1 piece, the next part milltek call the connecting pipe, then you have the rear section resonated or non-res. I'm sure you need the downpipe and sports cat for stage 2 :smiley:
yes i know i would be putting stock cat back on thats the point i am not convinced and would like to know what the change will be against Ben and Luca with stage 2 maps. its me being curious thats all as to if you do need the pipe or not and what is the differance in torque and bhp or does it only help when you have a fule pump done :smiley:
Did you have the map and the exhaust at the same time?, cos if you didn't surely you would have noticed the difference when you put the exhaust on, or did you thinkin about it put the exhaust on first?
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i think i am going to have a look with my mate who is a revo dealer and do a few logs of the car with dp and stage 2 and then stage 2 and stock dp as its defo worth a look.i had map done first and then i put exhaust on after and the car does feel better/crisper/louder
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I've always thought on my last 2 gti's and the S3 the downpipe/sports cat have made a difference, think I put it as its like takin the spud from up the exhaust :laugh:
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I've always thought on my last 2 gti's and the S3 the downpipe/sports cat have made a difference, think I put it as its like takin the spud from up the exhaust :laugh:
:laugh: true it was the same on my leon cupra r with high flow cat and dp done. i am going to get out with the car and do some vag com logs this week and see what its doing and then over the weekend change the dp and do some more logs i think as i am just interested but thats just how i am and have been working on cars for years so its no big thing.also i can put the car on a exhaust gas analizer just to see what the change there is
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I admire your curiosity pal, them downpipes can be pain in the hole to change :smiley:, there even worse on the 4wd cars cos the driveshafts in the way
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I admire your curiosity pal, them downpipes can be pain in the hole to change :smiley:, there even worse on the 4wd cars cos the driveshafts in the way
:laugh: :laugh: i know i was going to do it on my golf r32 and was going to do the manifolds on that and talk about not cheap :shocked:
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I've always wondered about that DP on Bens car and his impressive power/torque figures, but when coming to buy 1 I've always gone for the larger bore because I only want buy once and you never know what mods you may get up to in the future :smiley:
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I strongly suspect that if you use the standard DP with a stage 2 map your EGTs will be sky high and may damage the cat.
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I think I am only going to keep it on stage 1 any way for now while I have a play with revo and doing some vag com logs.
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I would prefer not to find out the limits of the K04 TFSi engine myself, but I have yet to hear of a car with most of the add ons and Revo get tested ie Fuel Pump, Dbilas, TBE, Intercooler, Revo Stage 2.
I do however know of such a car with these mods and it is being tested on Saturday. Not sure what the settings will be yet with regard to Boost Fuel and Timing. Same car with just Revo, Carbonio and Full TBE made 321bhp and 295ft-lbs with settings 6 Boost 6 Timing and 9 Fuel earlier this year.
8 Boost, 6 Timing and 8 Fuelling or 7 Boost, 6 Timing and 9 Fuelling may be used so as not to get an appalling spike of torque and massive drop off thereafter. Peak figures are not really relevent when they are at the top of a big spike - a lower figure on a piece of flat would be better :smiley: