GolfGTIforum.co.uk
Model specific boards => Golf mk5 => Topic started by: NewGolf on 05 October 2008, 17:37
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Ok, so some of you know I'm in the market for a new car for the missus. She is currently using my 7 year old 1.4 Golf MK4 (which has never missed a beat). She was going to order a new MB SLK 350 which we have test driven many many times, but just as we were about to order it this weekend, she no longer wants one! RESULT!
Maybe it was the small boot that put her off, or maybe it was me chipping away time after time that the guys on here dont like them, they are classed as "hairdressers cars", etc etc! Ok so now we are back on the market for a decent car and would appreciate your help!
I was pointing her towards VAG cars, with the following as a wish list! It has to be close to the width of the GTI as thats the perfect size for the island we live on. It has to come in either silver, or close to Tornado Red (she likes Philyss :wink:). It has to be German build quality, look good and go well!
These are her comments before you lot moan at me.
I was guiding her towards the TT or TT-S which we test drove = Too Wide.
We went to look at the ED30, test drove one they have locally, = FWD too much wheelspin so she reckons. Plus it looks the same as my GTI. Didnt like the interior either.
A3 Cab, = Yuk, scuttle shake, looks awful from the rear and crap with the hood down.
A3 S Line = Now, this is a bit better, love the interior and it looks ok. It should go a bit better and have 4WD (we used to own an S4)!
S3, = now you are talking! They dont have one over here to test drive, but the extra oomph, 4WD and those silver wing mirrors (give me strength!) as from a brochure,I'd like that one! The only down side is that Audi dont do one with DSG, unless I'm mistaken?
So, this leaves a few questions before we go and take the plunge. Is there an RS3 on the horizon? We can wait until March next year, if ones close by it may be worth the extra wait, anyone heard anything?
A compromise would be the A3 S Line Quattro. Does this have the K04 Turbo to be able to be remapped as its slower than my GTI as standard? Its available with S Tronic (DSG Really!) 4WD but really needs more power.
GTI Mk6 4WD version. Is this really going to be manufactured? If so, with it having an interior upgrade (Audis have soooo much plusher interiors) extra power and the ability to put it down with 4WD, I reckon I could persuade her to wait!?!
Appreciate your thought chaps, and at least the SLK is out the window at last!!! :wink:
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(http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/mm104/tomashandmilly/Daft%20stuff/1072.gif) my thoughts
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^^^^LOL TC. :laugh:
NewGolf, I may have missed it in your question but why aren't you considering the S3 (which is now available with DSG and does have the K04 turbo) rather than the A3 S Line??
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^^^^LOL TC. :laugh:
NewGolf, I may have missed it in your question but why aren't you considering the S3 (which is now available with DSG and does have the K04 turbo) rather than the A3 S Line??
Thats the main question! She liked the S3 but not in manual! its not available on the Audi website with DSG, how do you know its available? Even our local dealer said its only in manual, from an old brochure dated June 2008 :sad:
Nice work SteveP thats a beer I owe you if its available with DSG :wink:
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^^^^LOL TC. :laugh:
NewGolf, I may have missed it in your question but why aren't you considering the S3 (which is now available with DSG and does have the K04 turbo) rather than the A3 S Line??
Thats the main question! She liked the S3 but not in manual! its not available on the Audi website with DSG, how do you know its available? Even our local dealer said its only in manual, from an old brochure dated June 2008 :sad:
Nice work SteveP thats a beer I owe you if its available with DSG :wink:
One beer please :grin:
http://www.autoblog.com/2008/09/29/audi-s3-gets-7-speed-dsg/
Was taking about this with RedRobin yesterday :smiley:
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S3 only available with DSG as sportback as far as I know
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im waiting for the 4 door S3's to come down in price :cool:
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what about an r 32 , dsg , recaro upgrade ??????
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I agree about an R32 DSG. The S3 s-tronic was supposed to be arriving as a 3 dr AFAIK too.
Now, to be a little controversial how about a 135i Coupe :rolleyes:
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get her sumthin like an eos Newgolf!
good build quality, VW + not better than your current motor which will annoy you if you buy her an R32 or ED30!
or is that the idea so you can nick it and give her your golf? :evil:
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girl.......s3........am i missing something :grin: :grin:
my girlfriend reaaaaaally wants a lupo gti, :drool: :drool: :drool:
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S3 :cool:
Get her one NOW........................................... before she changes her mind :grin:
Cass
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If I bought my misses an S3..............which I never would, even if I could afford it, it would be wrapped around a lampost in an hour, she is bad enough in her 1.0 Ka never mind a 260BHP A3!!!
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In the Audi range the S3 is a girls car.
It's the RS4 that's the mans car.
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If I bought my misses an S3..............which I never would, even if I could afford it, it would be wrapped around a lampost in an hour, she is bad enough in her 1.0 Ka never mind a 260BHP A3!!!
Ditto, mine has struggle with the power increase from 75bhp in her old Polo to 80bhp in her new Polo :laugh: :laugh:
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In the Audi range the S3 is a girls car.
It's the RS4 that's the mans car.
And you need a mans wedge to buy one of those :shocked:
Cass
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In the Audi range the S3 is a girls car.
It's the RS4 that's the mans car.
I can't wait for Gaz to see this post :rolleyes: :grin:
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what abouuuuuuut a new 3 series convertible? not really my scene but its a decent all rounder and with that new hardtop seems a nice motor?
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what abouuuuuuut a new 3 series convertible? not really my scene but its a decent all rounder and with that new hardtop seems a nice motor?
Newgolf said he wanted something relatively small :wink:
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In the Audi range the S3 is a girls car.
It's the RS4 that's the mans car.
soz nosh...........do not agree!!! although i know where your coming from! :smiley:
have you seen the blue one round the corner from your house!!! thats lush!! :drool: :drool:
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My dogs loose on Twemlow somewhere.
If you spot the mutt tell her to get home.
It's all Audi A3s that look small, rounded and cute to me.
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Whatever
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^^^
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
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At the risk of getting some serious flaming for my suggestion - what about the Corsa VXR? :wink:
www.Vauxhall.co.uk/vxr
Not much smaller than a Golf or TT, but still roomy, and great as a 2nd car. A mad 192PS from a 1.6 litre 4-pot turbo, 140mph, 0-60 in 6.8s, 308mm front anchors, tasty blue calipers, 17 or 18 inch alloys . . .
And before anyone slates me - Vauxhalls are identical to Opels, and Opels are German, and built by Adam Opel GmbH. Vauxhall/Opels are on a par with other German cars with regard to structural strength (unlike Fords!), and usually get 5 stars in EuroNCAP crash tests. I sence some "badge snobbery" may be an issue though.
If I were in the market for a small pocket rocket, then the Corsa VXR would be very high on my shopping list - afterall, what equivalents to VW have? And no, I would never take a Seat. The only comparable (decent) VAG car is the Å koda Fabia vRS - a real cracker, but they don't make em anymore!
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. . .
Vauxhall/Opels are on a par with other German cars with regard to structural strength (unlike Fords!), and usually get 5 stars in EuroNCAP crash tests.
Interesting to see you don't rate the body integrity of Henry's finest?
From someone that works in body Construction in a Ford derived plant that uses Ford designed Underbodies (and a multitude of other BIW parts) as bases for its product, I can tell you that this comment confuses me somewhat!
Are you talking about products of old?
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At the risk of getting some serious flaming for my suggestion - what about the Corsa VXR? :wink:
www.Vauxhall.co.uk/vxr
Not much smaller than a Golf or TT, but still roomy, and great as a 2nd car. A mad 192PS from a 1.6 litre 4-pot turbo, 140mph, 0-60 in 6.8s, 308mm front anchors, tasty blue calipers, 17 or 18 inch alloys . . .
And before anyone slates me - Vauxhalls are identical to Opels, and Opels are German, and built by Adam Opel GmbH. Vauxhall/Opels are on a par with other German cars with regard to structural strength (unlike Fords!), and usually get 5 stars in EuroNCAP crash tests. I sence some "badge snobbery" may be an issue though.
If I were in the market for a small pocket rocket, then the Corsa VXR would be very high on my shopping list - afterall, what equivalents to VW have? And no, I would never take a Seat. The only comparable (decent) VAG car is the Å koda Fabia vRS - a real cracker, but they don't make em anymore!
TT either your on a wind up or you dont know Newgolf.
I guarantee he will spit his coffee all over puter when he sees that recommendation :grin:
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T_T has finally gone nuts!! Must be a brain overload or he has simply plugged the wrong information/manufacturer file into his disk drive :grin: :grin:
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I gotta agree with T_T. I dont mind Corsa VXR's. If I was in the market for that sort of car I would probably go for that over its competitors. If you can get over the 'chav' side of them they aint to bad and I bet they are a right hoot to drive!! :smiley:
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At the risk of getting some serious flaming for my suggestion - what about the Corsa VXR? :wink:
www.Vauxhall.co.uk/vxr
Not much smaller than a Golf or TT, but still roomy, and great as a 2nd car. A mad 192PS from a 1.6 litre 4-pot turbo, 140mph, 0-60 in 6.8s, 308mm front anchors, tasty blue calipers, 17 or 18 inch alloys . . .
And before anyone slates me - Vauxhalls are identical to Opels, and Opels are German, and built by Adam Opel GmbH. Vauxhall/Opels are on a par with other German cars with regard to structural strength (unlike Fords!), and usually get 5 stars in EuroNCAP crash tests. I sence some "badge snobbery" may be an issue though.
If I were in the market for a small pocket rocket, then the Corsa VXR would be very high on my shopping list - afterall, what equivalents to VW have? And no, I would never take a Seat. The only comparable (decent) VAG car is the Å koda Fabia vRS - a real cracker, but they don't make em anymore!
TT either your on a wind up or you dont know Newgolf.
I guarantee he will spit his coffee all over puter when he sees that recommendation :grin:
TC, you know me too well mate! I nearly dropped my glass of wine!
T_T , I enjoyed your threads and thought you were a man of great knowledge and I respected that :smiley: Now I'm not so sure. Recommending a poxhall on here, are you nuts? :sad: I'd rather cut my knob off than drive a Vauxhall, call it badge snobbery or whatever you like, they just give me the creeps. I'm entitled to my opinion, and its that they are cr@p, I've test driven them so I can honestly say that. The wife wouldn't even test drive them, she would never live it down if she was seen in one!
Egbert, RS4 is too wide, too thirsty and too expensive to run and live with mate.
T88OMM and SteveP, her last car was a B7 S4, so the powers not an issue trust me! She used to regularly blast past me on the way to work in the mornings!
My cunning plan is to "borrow" it as often as I can, as I'd love the S3 as our second car, and would remap it as fast as possible.... :wink:
Gaz any comments as you have come from the ED30 to the S3, I'd appreciate your thoughts bud :smiley:
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. . .
Vauxhall/Opels are on a par with other German cars with regard to structural strength (unlike Fords!), and usually get 5 stars in EuroNCAP crash tests.
Interesting to see you don't rate the body integrity of Henry's finest?
From someone that works in body Construction in a Ford derived plant that uses Ford designed Underbodies (and a multitude of other BIW parts) as bases for its product, I can tell you that this comment confuses me somewhat!
Are you talking about products of old?
Nope. Even the latest Fords are no match for Vauxhall/Opel, Renault, VW, and the likes. Ford never quite cut in EuroNCAP tests. OK, they may sometimes hit 5 stars, but the devil is in the detail.
And how may Fords use continuous seam or butt laser welding - none. They still use 1960s spot welding technology.
What about full three-section sills - the most crucial part of the structure. For still don't use a full three section, yet Vauxhall, VW and Audi use four section, and some parts are 5-section sills.
Bottom line though is to ask any "established" Police accident investigator - and Fords will always be at the bottom of their own transport requirements. :rolleyes:
Even Volvos are not the "tanks" they once were, before Ford got their grubby mitts on ownership of that well-known "tough" brand.
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TC, you know me too well mate! I nearly dropped my glass of wine!
Good save! :grin:
T_T , I enjoyed your threads and thought you were a man of great knowledge and I respected that :smiley: Now I'm not so sure. Recommending a poxhall on here, are you nuts? :sad: I'd rather cut my knob off than drive a Vauxhall, call it badge snobbery or whatever you like, they just give me the creeps. I'm entitled to my opinion, and its that they are cr@p, I've test driven them so I can honestly say that. The wife wouldn't even test drive them, she would never live it down if she was seen in one!
My nomex suit is coping well! :tongue:
Egbert, RS4 is too wide, too thirsty and too expensive to run and live with mate.
Agreed on the "wide" bit, but they are actually more economical than the V8 S4, when driven on a par. My RS4 is actually a fair bit more economical than a Mk5 R32 too! :shocked:
T88OMM and SteveP, her last car was a B7 S4, so the powers not an issue trust me! She used to regularly blast past me on the way to work in the mornings!
Yebut - power is nothing without control, as the old saying goes. Good job yr SWMBO ditched the hairdressers SLK. But in all seriousnous, if she really utilised the abilities of her S4, partcularly the four wheel drive aspects, then a move to Haldex 4wd will disapoint.
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My RS4 is actually a fair bit more economical than a Mk5 R32 too! :shocked:
Was your R32 DSG? The general feeling over on the R32OC is that the manuals seem to average 5 - 6 mpg more than the lazy shifters.
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T88OMM and SteveP, her last car was a B7 S4, so the powers not an issue trust me! She used to regularly blast past me on the way to work in the mornings!
Yebut - power is nothing without control, as the old saying goes. Good job yr SWMBO ditched the hairdressers SLK. But in all seriousnous, if she really utilised the abilities of her S4, partcularly the four wheel drive aspects, then a move to Haldex 4wd will disapoint.
Its getting off the line in the wet she struggles with, as before in the S4 it was just foot down on the loud pedal, wet or dry, and it would launch like a scalded cat. You cant do that in the GTI, nor in the SLK as she recently found out! Even thought its (the latest) Haldex, in the S3, it should stop "off the line" wheelspin shouldn't it?
Another question for you, if you dont mind? How come the ED30 can be remapped from 230 to 306 BHP (ish..) but the S3 can only go from 260 to 300 BHP, according to SC and Revo? I imagined it could produce around 320 -340 if the same gains as the Ed30 were achievable?
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the S3 is already at a higher state of tune, whereas the ed30 can be modded more as its at a lower state!. S3 has the same engine but is coupled to the haldex, hense why there seems to be less power after mapping with its transmission it has to turn.
Thats my theory :smiley: (whether thats correct is up for debate Newgolf)
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My RS4 is actually a fair bit more economical than a Mk5 R32 too! :shocked:
Was your R32 DSG? The general feeling over on the R32OC is that the manuals seem to average 5 - 6 mpg more than the lazy shifters.
The 32 wasn't mine, but yes, it was DSG. But no matter weather I left it in "lazy mode", or in Tip mode, I still thought it was a very thirsty thing, especially compared to my seriously heavyweight RS4! :shocked:
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T88OMM and SteveP, her last car was a B7 S4, so the powers not an issue trust me! She used to regularly blast past me on the way to work in the mornings!
Yebut - power is nothing without control, as the old saying goes. Good job yr SWMBO ditched the hairdressers SLK. But in all seriousnous, if she really utilised the abilities of her S4, partcularly the four wheel drive aspects, then a move to Haldex 4wd will disapoint.
Its getting off the line in the wet she struggles with, as before in the S4 it was just foot down on the loud pedal, wet or dry, and it would launch like a scalded cat. You cant do that in the GTI, nor in the SLK as she recently found out! Even thought its (the latest) Haldex, in the S3, it should stop "off the line" wheelspin shouldn't it?
Haldex will stop "off the line" wheelspin, and does a very good job, especially in a straight line. However, the Haldex 4wd is not as "refined" as the truely "stepless" Torsen system.
And hard acceleration whilst cornering with a Haldex is very, very different to a Torsen. Think "slip-grip-slip-grip-slip-grip" - and you can actually feel that through the seat of your pants, and it also makes the handling twitchy on the limit. If you can get used to the weak points of Haldex, then it is an OK system. But the big issue for me, is once you have driven a Torsen on the limit, with Haldex, you are always wanting more.
Another question for you, if you dont mind? How come the ED30 can be remapped from 230 to 306 BHP (ish..) but the S3 can only go from 260 to 300 BHP, according to SC and Revo? I imagined it could produce around 320 -340 if the same gains as the Ed30 were achievable?
DSG !!! :wink: It is torque limited to protect the clutches. A manual S3, and you can safely get it up to 450PS no probs. :drool:
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the S3 is already at a higher state of tune, whereas the ed30 can be modded more as its at a lower state!.
Not really. The S3 engine can cope with considerably higher figures than the Ed30/Cupra lump.
S3 has the same engine
Nope. The S3 does NOT share its engine with any other VAG car, including the Ed30 and the Cupra. The S3 has an exclusive cylinder block/crankcase, and made from a stronger more durable alloy, and also has a strengthend crank bed plate. These are NOT shared with the Ed30 or Cupra! :rolleyes:
but is coupled to the haldex, hense why there seems to be less power after mapping with its transmission it has to turn.
And that is the crucial problem of wheel or hub rolling roads. They can never correctly calculate the real flywheel power, and this is particularly difficult for the "part time" four wheel drive systems such as Haldex.
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. . .
Vauxhall/Opels are on a par with other German cars with regard to structural strength (unlike Fords!), and usually get 5 stars in EuroNCAP crash tests.
Interesting to see you don't rate the body integrity of Henry's finest?
From someone that works in body Construction in a Ford derived plant that uses Ford designed Underbodies (and a multitude of other BIW parts) as bases for its product, I can tell you that this comment confuses me somewhat!
Are you talking about products of old?
Nope. Even the latest Fords are no match for Vauxhall/Opel, Renault, VW, and the likes. Ford never quite cut in EuroNCAP tests. OK, they may sometimes hit 5 stars, but the devil is in the detail.
And how may Fords use continuous seam or butt laser welding - none. They still use 1960s spot welding technology.
What about full three-section sills - the most crucial part of the structure. For still don't use a full three section, yet Vauxhall, VW and Audi use four section, and some parts are 5-section sills.
Bottom line though is to ask any "established" Police accident investigator - and Fords will always be at the bottom of their own transport requirements. :rolleyes:
Even Volvos are not the "tanks" they once were, before Ford got their grubby mitts on ownership of that well-known "tough" brand.
So the 1300 odd spot welds used on the mk 5 Golf are not counted or invisible then?
Spot (resistance) welding has been around a lot longer than the 60's and most manufacturers still use them, including the ones mentioned in your above post.
I could post up various links to videos of spot welders in current action at various car plants across the world.
Re: Laser welding, this is used to some degree on long runs that are easily accessible for the robot heads for instance the roof seams, and does away with the need to seal up the joints with Terostat or the like afterwards due to the 100% integrity.
Laser welding is also used to save wastage on sheet metal , for example the door skin inners in the plant where I work are made in 2 pieces and joined with laser welding, wheras otherwise there would be a lot of wasted raw material if they were pressed out in one piece. Of course Aluminium shells still have to be laser welded (or increasingly bonded) as spot welding doesn't work.
I work closely with a guy at work who is an ABB employee, he is a seasoned traveller to BIW plants around the world, and guess what he is a specialist in? yep ABB resistance welding robots.
The strength of a bodyshell is not totally reliant on the sill section anymore, any modern floorpan will have reinforcing running lengthways along the x axis, (usually the underbody and door opening panel - DOP) and tied up with specific re-inforcing panels to spread the load of any impact (deformation) as you know cars are designed to absorb impact and spread the force of throughout the body, so multi-skinned sill sections, although once necessary, aren't used to such an extent anymore. Manufacturers do things in different ways thats all!
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. . .
Vauxhall/Opels are on a par with other German cars with regard to structural strength (unlike Fords!), and usually get 5 stars in EuroNCAP crash tests.
Interesting to see you don't rate the body integrity of Henry's finest?
From someone that works in body Construction in a Ford derived plant that uses Ford designed Underbodies (and a multitude of other BIW parts) as bases for its product, I can tell you that this comment confuses me somewhat!
Are you talking about products of old?
Nope. Even the latest Fords are no match for Vauxhall/Opel, Renault, VW, and the likes. Ford never quite cut in EuroNCAP tests. OK, they may sometimes hit 5 stars, but the devil is in the detail.
And how may Fords use continuous seam or butt laser welding - none. They still use 1960s spot welding technology.
What about full three-section sills - the most crucial part of the structure. For still don't use a full three section, yet Vauxhall, VW and Audi use four section, and some parts are 5-section sills.
Bottom line though is to ask any "established" Police accident investigator - and Fords will always be at the bottom of their own transport requirements. :rolleyes:
Even Volvos are not the "tanks" they once were, before Ford got their grubby mitts on ownership of that well-known "tough" brand.
So the 1300 odd spot welds used on the mk 5 Golf are not counted or invisible then?
Spot (resistance) welding has been around a lot longer than the 60's and most manufacturers still use them, including the ones mentioned in your above post.
I could post up various links to videos of spot welders in current action at various car plants across the world.
Re: Laser welding, this is used to some degree on long runs that are easily accessible for the robot heads for instance the roof seams, and does away with the need to seal up the joints with Terostat or the like afterwards due to the 100% integrity.
Laser welding is also used to save wastage on sheet metal , for example the door skin inners in the plant where I work are made in 2 pieces and joined with laser welding, wheras otherwise there would be a lot of wasted raw material if they were pressed out in one piece. Of course Aluminium shells still have to be laser welded (or increasingly bonded) as spot welding doesn't work.
I work closely with a guy at work who is an ABB employee, he is a seasoned traveller to BIW plants around the world, and guess what he is a specialist in? yep ABB resistance welding robots.
The strength of a bodyshell is not totally reliant on the sill section anymore, any modern floorpan will have reinforcing running lengthways along the x axis, (usually the underbody and door opening panel - DOP) and tied up with specific re-inforcing panels to spread the load of any impact (deformation) as you know cars are designed to absorb impact and spread the force of throughout the body, so multi-skinned sill sections, although once necessary, aren't used to such an extent anymore. Manufacturers do things in different ways thats all!
Thanks for that Sixpot :undecided:
Ok T_T you are back in "VAG" mode, phew! Thanks for the advise. So you'd recommend the S3 then, in manual as opposed to DSG? Once its bedded in and I get my grubby paws on it, REMAP here we come !!!
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(http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/mm104/tomashandmilly/Daft%20stuff/1072.gif) my thoughts
:grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin:
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. . .
Vauxhall/Opels are on a par with other German cars with regard to structural strength (unlike Fords!), and usually get 5 stars in EuroNCAP crash tests.
Interesting to see you don't rate the body integrity of Henry's finest?
From someone that works in body Construction in a Ford derived plant that uses Ford designed Underbodies (and a multitude of other BIW parts) as bases for its product, I can tell you that this comment confuses me somewhat!
Are you talking about products of old?
Nope. Even the latest Fords are no match for Vauxhall/Opel, Renault, VW, and the likes. Ford never quite cut in EuroNCAP tests. OK, they may sometimes hit 5 stars, but the devil is in the detail.
And how may Fords use continuous seam or butt laser welding - none. They still use 1960s spot welding technology.
What about full three-section sills - the most crucial part of the structure. For still don't use a full three section, yet Vauxhall, VW and Audi use four section, and some parts are 5-section sills.
Bottom line though is to ask any "established" Police accident investigator - and Fords will always be at the bottom of their own transport requirements. :rolleyes:
Even Volvos are not the "tanks" they once were, before Ford got their grubby mitts on ownership of that well-known "tough" brand.
So the 1300 odd spot welds used on the mk 5 Golf are not counted or invisible then?
Spot (resistance) welding has been around a lot longer than the 60's and most manufacturers still use them, including the ones mentioned in your above post.
But that isnt the issue. The simple fact is that Ford have not moved on, and complimented spot welding with the far more advanced, stronger, and accurate method of laser welding. And it is the strength of the laser welding which has massive advantages in the overall structural strength of the monocoque. What about when Malcolm Wilsons rally company gets the Focus body shells - they then have to re-weld every spot weld with a seam welder. Spot welding may be "OK", but it has limitations, and the Volkswagen Group manufacturing plants have made a positive step in structural strength with laser welding in critical areas.
I could post up various links to videos of spot welders in current action at various car plants across the world.
I don't doubt you. And I would also expect to see dub factories too. But how many other manufacturers will have vids of continuous laser welds? :rolleyes:
Re: Laser welding, this is used to some degree on long runs that are easily accessible for the robot heads for instance the roof seams, and does away with the need to seal up the joints with Terostat or the like afterwards due to the 100% integrity.
Laser welding is also used to save wastage on sheet metal , for example the door skin inners in the plant where I work are made in 2 pieces and joined with laser welding, wheras otherwise there would be a lot of wasted raw material if they were pressed out in one piece.
Agreed. But two simple issues. It is a proven fact that continous laser welding is far stronger than spot welding. And why don't Ford use lasers on the roof seams? Their monocoque construction designs are no different to a dub? :smug: The simple answer is that spot welding is hugely cheaper than laser welding - and Ford are widely known, within the industry, to be the most agressive at "penny pinching" in their manufacturing processes.
Of course Aluminium shells still have to be laser welded (or increasingly bonded) as spot welding doesn't work.
Chalk and cheese though. Volkswagen nor Ford make aluminium cars. :rolleyes: But Audi and Vauxhall do. (Well Vauxhall used to in their VX200 :tongue:). :nerd:
I work closely with a guy at work who is an ABB employee, he is a seasoned traveller to BIW plants around the world, and guess what he is a specialist in? yep ABB resistance welding robots.
And . . . ?
The strength of a bodyshell is not totally reliant on the sill section anymore, any modern floorpan will have reinforcing running lengthways along the x axis, (usually the underbody and door opening panel - DOP) and tied up with specific re-inforcing panels to spread the load of any impact (deformation) as you know cars are designed to absorb impact and spread the force of throughout the body, so multi-skinned sill sections, although once necessary, aren't used to such an extent anymore. Manufacturers do things in different ways thats all!
Erm, the sill section is still a massive part of the overall structural rigidity of a monocoque. And the monocoque is not really designed to be the primary component of deformation at all. Of course the sill isn't the only structural component, but for the actual "survival cell" of the passenger compartment, in frontal and rear impacts, the sill strength is the deciding factor. Of course there are the "crumple zones", which generally include everything infront of the firewall and "A" pillar, and the best designs will not only dissipate collision energy in the actual crumple zones, but also along the roof too - thus fully protecting the sill as the primary structural component. There is a crucial reason why the sill is, or should be the stongest part - because it forms part of the floor pan - and it is to the floor pan which all the occupant supporting structures are bolted to. :nerd:
Anyway, I was gonna post a link to a similar discussion on another forum, but the lieing little tw@t who owns it has let it crash yet again! Anyone have any ideas on how to link or post "mht" documents? :undecided:
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Ok T_T you are back in "VAG" mode, phew!
I can stray again, especially if provoked! :evil: :evil:
Thanks for the advise. So you'd recommend the S3 then, in manual as opposed to DSG? Once its bedded in and I get my grubby paws on it, REMAP here we come !!!
The S3 is a beautifully built and finished car, and like all Audis, are easily on a par with Stuttgarts finest for overall quality. As you already know, it has a fine handling chassis, and superb engine. :smug:
However, a crucial issue for me would be the Haldex. Like I touched on in an earlier post, if you are used to Torsen, then you really need to actually decide if you are able to live with the limitations of Haldex. If you merely went from a front wheel drive Golf, then it wont be an issue, but being as your mrs has a Torsen quattro, then she still might notice the difference. Ask your stealer to borrow one for the day - or if they don't have an S3 on demo, try a TT quattro or A3 quattro, or even an R32.
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Thanks T_T, I do appreciate, and value your advice. :smiley: