GolfGTIforum.co.uk
Model specific boards => Golf mk5 => Topic started by: ub7rm on 04 October 2008, 19:09
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Now I've read the other threads and see that some people use next to no oil between services and some use about a litre per 5k miles. In the last week I've had the check oil level warning message come on twice, first time it was pretty low and the second time I'd say it was about half way between min and max. So the level sensor it not exactly consistent but thats not really my worry. About a month ago (say 1000 miles ago) I topped up by about half a litre so all in all it looks like I'm using about a litre per 2000 miles. This seems a little excessive though I believe its within the allowable spec...
What I'm concerned about is two warnings in a week.....and my warranty runs out at the end of the month. Obviously I'll be monitoring this closely over the next couple of weeks but I was wondering if anyone has any resolution from VW on high oil consumption? I've seen some tenuous connections on other sites to a failed PCV? Anyone had any experience on this?
As a bit of a side note, how sooty are your tail pipes ? :huh: I cleaned the car last weekend including the 'lip' of the tailpipes and they are pretty sooty already. I see some other cars that don't look that well looked after and their tail pipes are realatively clean. I'm wondering if there is a connection....
Hopefully worrying over nothing.
33k miles on the clock btw
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http://www.golfgtiforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=87235.0
have you read that post ?, also my pipes get pretty sooty and its fairly new so thats not particularly an issue imo
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I did have a look at that post (even contributed to it at the time!).
Its the fact that the warning has gone off twice in the space of a week thats got me a little spooked. I think the sensor is being a little erratic but its still relatively new to me and coming from a 1.8T that didn't need oil from one service to the next its got my paranoia going.
I walked past an A3 2.0T and noticed his tailpipes were pretty sooty too so between that and you I think that issues been put to bed.
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I'm sure VW and Audi state that a consumption of up to 1/2 litre/1000 miles is within the tolerence of the engine. This seems high to me but some engines do use oil and others don't.
My own car used about 1/2 litre in the first 1000 miles and hasn't gulped a drop since (now 2 years and 11000+).
Also my exhaust also looks very black and sooty, even after a good run. Job for Solvol Autosol for the pipes :wink:
Cass
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In the last week I've had the check oil level warning message come on twice, first time it was pretty low and the second time I'd say it was about half way between min and max. So the level sensor it not exactly consistent but thats not really my worry.
Is'nt it a low oil pressure warning (i.e not the level of oil) ?. If you're getting the warning when your oil level is actually OK, I think I'd get it checked out asap.
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Its the yellow oil light that comes on with the message to check the oil level. Definately not the oil pressure light.
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Now I've read the other threads and see that some people use next to no oil between services and some use about a litre per 5k miles. In the last week I've had the check oil level warning message come on twice, first time it was pretty low and the second time I'd say it was about half way between min and max. So the level sensor it not exactly consistent but thats not really my worry. About a month ago (say 1000 miles ago) I topped up by about half a litre so all in all it looks like I'm using about a litre per 2000 miles. This seems a little excessive though I believe its within the allowable spec...
It is within spec. As detailed in an earlier thread, the official guidlines for oil consumption are upto 1 litre of oil per 1,000 kilometres, which is about 600 miles - so by using a litre of oil per 2000 miles, you are well within the spec, by some considerable margin. :smug:
Your sensor does sound fcuked though! :rolleyes:
What I'm concerned about is two warnings in a week.....and my warranty runs out at the end of the month.
Ahhhh . . . the crucial issue here is - after the first warning, did you make sure you absolutely topped it up to the max level on the dipstick. Then how many miles was it before the 2nd warning occured, AND, by how much oil did it need to top it back up to the max level. These really need to be answered as accurately as possible.
Your concern about warranty expiry - get it checked out ASAP. Even if the stealer finds "no fault" :rolleyes: at your first visit, make sure they log your concerns on the VWUK computer thingy - becauase that will ensure that your warranty "concern" gets officially "logged" before your actuall warranty period expires. If subsequent assessments then go beyond the expiry of the warranty, because you had previously logged the complaint, and it was left "unresolved", then the warranty for that specific complaint will still be honoured even after the warranty period.
Obviously I'll be monitoring this closely over the next couple of weeks but I was wondering if anyone has any resolution from VW on high oil consumption?
Based on your reported oil consumption of 1 litre of oil per 2000 miles, I strongly suspect if you wander into the stealers complaining of excessive oil consumption, they will probably swiftly tell you to do an abrupt "U-turn" and ask you to make a rapid exit. Your oil consumption is NOT excessive.
I've seen some tenuous connections on other sites to a failed PCV? Anyone had any experience on this?
There was also a recent thread on this site. Though I suspect if your PCV valve has gone, then you could be using considerably more oil than what you are reporting.
Just to clarify, what brand, and type of oil are you using? And are you correctly topping it up to the max each time - not over or under filling it?
As a bit of a side note, how sooty are your tail pipes ? :huh: I cleaned the car last weekend including the 'lip' of the tailpipes and they are pretty sooty already. I see some other cars that don't look that well looked after and their tail pipes are realatively clean. I'm wondering if there is a connection....
Firstly, all FSI engines seem to suffer from sooty tips, explanation in a mo.
For your specific concern, if your car was burning oil, then when you rub your finger inside the pipes in the soot, there will be a definate feeling of oil - it will definately feel "slippery", and if you wipe your finger enough, and then press your finger onto some white kitchen towel, you can sometimes see the "oil" kind of "spread" or wick outwards from the black sooty "solids". If it is merely overfueling, then the soot will feel quite dry, and sometimes rather rough, like fine wet and dry paper - and there will be no wicking on the paper towel.
Now, specifically onto the FSI engines. They all overfuel when cold. This is to bring the exhaust catalysts rapidly up to temperature, for minimising emissions. Basically, the "main" fuel dose is injected on the compression stroke, and is fully burnt in the combustion chamber, forcing the piston down on its power stroke. Then, as the piston rises again on its exhaust stroke with the exhaust valves open, the ECU instructs a "secondary" injection into the very hot exhaust gasses. This second dose of fuel basically self-ignites in the catalysts, which brings them rapidly up to temperatures. Unfortunately, the actuall efficiency of the combustion process is not very good in the cats (they arn't specifically designed to do this), hence the black soot from incomplete combustion. My RS4 also suffers with this, but having the "black optic pack" which includes black painted tips, doesn't bother me! :tongue:
HTH
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I'm sure VW and Audi state that a consumption of up to 1/2 litre/1000 miles is within the tolerence of the engine. This seems high to me but some engines do use oil and others don't.
Upto 1 litre of oil per 1,000 kms (600-ish miles). :nerd:
My own car used about 1/2 litre in the first 1000 miles and hasn't gulped a drop since (now 2 years and 11000+).
You must have run it in properly then! :wink:
Also my exhaust also looks very black and sooty, even after a good run. Job for Solvol Autosol for the pipes :wink:
Just don't leave the tube on the garage floor, then stand up to admire your handy work, and then stand on the Autosol - a common premature ending to many an Autosol tube! :embarassed:
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In the last week I've had the check oil level warning message come on twice, first time it was pretty low and the second time I'd say it was about half way between min and max. So the level sensor it not exactly consistent but thats not really my worry.
Is'nt it a low oil pressure warning (i.e not the level of oil) ?. If you're getting the warning when your oil level is actually OK, I think I'd get it checked out asap.
Low oil pressure = red warning,
Low oil level = amber warning. :wink: :smug: :nerd:
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Wow, firstly thanks for taking the time for such a detailed reply.
Am I sure I topped the oil up to the max? Not exactly no, both times the light came on when I was in a hurry and as I was aware that it takes a while for all the oil to fall back into the sump I didn't want to inadvertantly overfill. I reckon the first time I must have put in about 200-300mls (synta gold btw). Second time round I probably put the same again in. And yesterday I probably put the same in again to take it to the max with the engine warm and having sat for half an hour before checking the dipstick.
Between the first and second time the light came on I did about 50 miles. Best case scenario the sensor is fecked, worst case I used 200-300 mls in 50 miles! Problem is I was in a hurry both times but I'm sure the first time the dipstick was around the min and the second time around the half so this ties in with the fecked sensor theory.
I'm going to monitor this carefully over the next couple of weeks and see what happens.
What kind of driving would be most conducive to higher oil consumption? My journey to work takes about 15 minutes of town driving then about 5 mins of dual carriageway, on the way home I'm hitting the dual carriageway with a cold engine. I suspect its not the best kind of journey for engine health?
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Wow, firstly thanks for taking the time for such a detailed reply.
Glad to help. Giving such detailed and helpful replies is what marks this forum as the best UK site for the Mk5 Golf. :wink: :smiley:
Am I sure I topped the oil up to the max? Not exactly no, both times the light came on when I was in a hurry and as I was aware that it takes a while for all the oil to fall back into the sump I didn't want to inadvertantly overfill.
OK, fairy nuff. But it would be really helpful if you could get it spot on.
Maybe find time over a weekend, when you arn't busy with work and the likes. Take it for a run to get your morning paper, fags or what ever, but make sure the coolant (and ideally oil) is up to normal operating temperatures. Then as soon as you get back home, pop the bonnet, whip out the dipstick, and wipe it clean, but do NOT immediately insert it again - instead, wait for five minutes before re-inserting dipstick and checking level (top up your screenwash, empty your ashtrays, or whatever in those five minutes). Removing the dipstick, and keeping it out for five minutes allows the oil in the actual dipstick tube to properly equalise. Doing this on a hot engine means the oil will quickly find the correct level - whereas pulling a dipstick on a cold engine can actually "pull" some oil up the dipstick tube, and immediately re-inserting it can sometimes give a false reading. Furthermore, on cold engines, the oil in the dipstick tube, along with any oil you pour into the top of the engine through the oil filler, will flow much more slowly, and if you "hurry" then you can get false readings. As a guage of how low the oil is, car manufacturers have "standardised" dipsticks, so that from minimum to maximum on the dipstick, should be 1 litre of oil.
I reckon the first time I must have put in about 200-300mls (synta gold btw).
Eeeek. Synta Gold really isn't the best oil for the modern GTI engine. Whilst it is 502.00 rated, and is fully synthetic, it is quite an old skool formulation. It may be fine for turbos, but certainly hasn't been developed for direct petrol engines (FSI), and has no HTHS ratings, which any of the VW "LongLife" brews have. Furthermore Synta Gold is NOT suitable if you are on LongLife servicing regime.
Best case scenario the sensor is fecked, worst case I used 200-300 mls in 50 miles! Problem is I was in a hurry both times but I'm sure the first time the dipstick was around the min and the second time around the half so this ties in with the fecked sensor theory.
I reckon that the sensor is the guilty culprit. They are known to be unreliable - not common, but they do go. I had one replaced on my last S4.
I'm going to monitor this carefully over the next couple of weeks and see what happens.
Good. Keep us informed. :smiley:
What kind of driving would be most conducive to higher oil consumption? My journey to work takes about 15 minutes of town driving then about 5 mins of dual carriageway, on the way home I'm hitting the dual carriageway with a cold engine. I suspect its not the best kind of journey for engine health?
High oil consumption can be caused by many things:
- leaks
- incorrect "running in"
- over filling
- consistently running near the minimum
- thrashing from cold
- high engine loads, such as towing or having fun in mountainous hairpins or track days
- wrong specification of oil
- blocked or incorrect operation of Positive Crankase Ventilation systems
- broken heat exchanger (but then you would find oil in your coolant)
There are probably some that I have missed. However, your particular journey on the way home is a potential problem. Try to keep the engine revs below 3,000rpm, and less than half throttle - until the engine (coolant and oil) reaches normal operating temps. High revs or high engine loads when cold is a real oil burner, and a killer for engines in general.
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Well thanks again!
I took my time on Saturday to make sure she was topped up to the max. Good advise there on leaving the dipstick out for a while - didn't know that!
Interesting about the oil, I just went to the dealer and asked for the most suitable oil for the car (which is on T&D) and assumed they would give me the right oil. Looks they made an ass out of me and them alright.... I've noticed threads in the past on the best oil so I'll dig those out and invest in some when it come to service time.
I'll keep y'all updated, many thanks.
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Is the oil temperature available on the climatronics display?
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Is the oil temperature available on the climatronics display?
yes it is. :smiley:
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That's good 15.0
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Good advise there on leaving the dipstick out for a while - didn't know that!
I'm full of useless info like that! :wink: :evil:
Interesting about the oil, I just went to the dealer and asked for the most suitable oil for the car (which is on T&D) and assumed they would give me the right oil. Looks they made an ass out of me and them alright.... I've noticed threads in the past on the best oil so I'll dig those out and invest in some when it come to service time.
I hope you didn't mis-understand me. Synta Gold is acceptable for use in the GTI on T&D - but is just that - merely just "OK", if you get my drift. But the newer technology LongLife oils (LongLife2 - 503.00/503.01 and LongLife3 - 504.00) are much better for use in the GTI - and are much better suited to the specific "hardware" technologies used in the FSI engines. :smiley:
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Is the oil temperature available on the climatronics display?
yes it is. :smiley:
Is there a definative online web page of exactly what all the hidden climate readings are for? :huh: