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Model specific boards => Golf mk5 => Topic started by: Peskarik on 02 October 2008, 09:07

Title: Dog bone inserts.
Post by: Peskarik on 02 October 2008, 09:07
I am looking at Neuspeed dog bone inserts for my E30.

Those of you who had them put on, do you notice any difference, both positive and negative.
Are these worth the money?
(Neuspeed said increased engine vibration and harsher ride may be expected).

Muchas grazias in advance.
Title: Re: Dog bone inserts.
Post by: topher on 02 October 2008, 09:09
A good, cheap little mod. I think they put that note about vibrations on there just incase anyone complains, but most of the guys I know who've done it have no issues with vibrations at all.
Title: Re: Dog bone inserts.
Post by: Greenouse on 02 October 2008, 09:19
I've bought one and not got round to fitting it as yet. Any feedback welcome as Im unsure too now I've got it!  :smiley:
Title: Re: Dog bone inserts.
Post by: RedRobin on 02 October 2008, 09:49
....

JKM noticed a broken exhaust mount when working on my car and said it wasn't uncommon on remapped cars particularly due to engine 'movement'. I fitted it for that reason alone and can't really feel anything different - Neither negative nor positive. I just have the peace of mind that it's better maintained.

Mine's the Neuspeed red polydoodaa Torque Arm Insert - I don't think it's got an ali 'bone' on it.
Title: Re: Dog bone inserts.
Post by: gazbutmk5gti on 02 October 2008, 09:50
I have had them on my last 2 gti's and will be putting 1 in the S3 on friday. Only positives for me, seems to sharpen the throttle response, put this down to it reducing the intial engine movement, but the main reason for me is they are recommended when you fit an aftermarket downpipe to prevent cracking which has been known to happen :smiley:
Title: Re: Dog bone inserts.
Post by: RedRobin on 02 October 2008, 09:52
^^^^

Gaz - It seems you and I are recommending them for the same reasons :afro:
Title: Re: Dog bone inserts.
Post by: topher on 02 October 2008, 09:53
can't really feel anything different - Neither negative nor positive

Not really noticeable on DSG equipped cars, you're already in the next gear before you might feel any engine lurch.
Title: Re: Dog bone inserts.
Post by: RedRobin on 02 October 2008, 10:06
can't really feel anything different - Neither negative nor positive

Not really noticeable on DSG equipped cars, you're already in the next gear before you might feel any engine lurch.

.... :afro: Cheers :afro: - That explains it.
Title: Re: Dog bone inserts.
Post by: luca on 02 October 2008, 10:15
Im going to be getting one of these. Especiallly when noticing that the bottom engine mount bolt was missing when having the milltek done at awesome :shocked:.
Maybe it came out at pod but it still shouldnt of happened.
Title: Re: Dog bone inserts.
Post by: neg on 02 October 2008, 10:17
I noticed my rubber grommits were split when I fit mine so I fitted anyway which then gave me a rattle from the exhaust when reversing, since changed the bracket which contains the rubber bits (PITA by the way!) and it was ok for a bit but seems to still do it.  I can only put it down to the DB insert which stiffenning it up causes the slight vibration when in reverse.

Was tempted to take it out the other day and cut off 2 of the sections (the round bits) to free it up a little.
Title: Re: Dog bone inserts.
Post by: Bolle on 02 October 2008, 12:49
I would recommend fitting them.

I have the ECS one on my manual non Ed30 GTI with a remap.
The engine movement is reduced quite a bit, you haven't got that feeling of a large lump of metal bucking up and down in the car.
Shifts seem to be a bit smoother as well, and easier to make. Before with spirited driving I noticed I had to be quite precise when shifting. Most noticable for me the 2 - 3 upshift at high revs, just couldn't find 3 quickly and smoothy, not so anymore after the dogbone.
Pick-up of the car is also improved, you haven't got the feeling of the engine 'settlling itself in its mounts' before delivering power to the wheels.

On the negative side, I feel a bit more vibrations through the throttle pedal compared to before, and that is actually the only place I feel it continuously. I don't find that an big irritation or something to put me off, but that can be differen for each individual.
Furthermore you get a bit more vibrations if you balance the car on the clutch biting point with the engine at idle revs. A little revs cures that.

All in all I would recommend it, a great modification for little money.

Install was done (for free!  :smiley:) during a GTI meet at a local dealership. I would suggest you put the car on a bridge to do the install, it is a tight fit and you need some working room under the car to give it some leverage.

Title: Re: Dog bone inserts.
Post by: bacillus on 02 October 2008, 13:01
I would suggest you put the car on a bridge to do the install, it is a tight fit and you need some working room under the car to give it some leverage.
The key here is to lubricate the insert generously before insertion.   :smiley:
Title: Re: Dog bone inserts.
Post by: Egbutt Wash on 02 October 2008, 13:11
£114 to have the dog bone exsert
Title: Re: Dog bone inserts.
Post by: bacillus on 02 October 2008, 13:15
£114 to have the dog bone exsert
Where did you get that figure as the insert, depending on what make you get, will set you back between £23-30.
Title: Re: Dog bone inserts.
Post by: 182_blue on 02 October 2008, 13:44
£114 to have the dog bone exsert
Where did you get that figure as the insert, depending on what make you get, will set you back between £23-30.

Amazingly expensive for undoing and tightning one bolt
Title: Re: Dog bone inserts.
Post by: joesgti on 02 October 2008, 13:54
gonna order one from awesome now, where do they go?? any fitting help?? also what tools??  :smiley:
Title: Re: Dog bone inserts.
Post by: 182_blue on 02 October 2008, 14:00
Guide here http://www.ecstuning.com/stage/edoc/mk5insertinstructions.pdf

its an audi but the same
Title: Re: Dog bone inserts.
Post by: Peskarik on 02 October 2008, 14:02
gonna order one from awesome now, where do they go?? any fitting help?? also what tools??  :smiley:

On Neuspeed webpage there are instructions with pictures.
Title: Re: Dog bone inserts.
Post by: 182_blue on 02 October 2008, 14:06
gonna order one from awesome now, where do they go?? any fitting help?? also what tools??  :smiley:

On Neuspeed webpage there are instructions with pictures.

http://www.neuspeed.com/data/installs/22.10.91.pdf   :wink:
Title: Re: Dog bone inserts.
Post by: joesgti on 02 October 2008, 14:14
thanks alot  :smiley:

looks p!ss easy, shame i dont have a torque wrench  :sad:
Title: Re: Dog bone inserts.
Post by: Egbutt Wash on 02 October 2008, 14:30
£114 to have the dog bone exsert
Where did you get that figure as the insert, depending on what make you get, will set you back between £23-30.

Amazingly expensive for undoing and tightning one bolt

The Vets.

Tess had crunched down too large a chunk of lamb shoulder and it got stuck on the way out.
The vet removed it whilst she was knocked out.
Title: Re: Dog bone inserts.
Post by: Peskarik on 02 October 2008, 15:27
Quote from: Egbert Nosh link=topic=93609.msg776841#msg776841

The Vets.

Tess had crunched down too large a chunk of lamb shoulder and it got stuck on the way out.
The vet removed it whilst she was knocked out.
:grin: :grin:
Title: Re: Dog bone inserts.
Post by: joesgti on 02 October 2008, 15:28
£114 to have the dog bone exsert
Where did you get that figure as the insert, depending on what make you get, will set you back between £23-30.

Amazingly expensive for undoing and tightning one bolt

The Vets.

Tess had crunched down too large a chunk of lamb shoulder and it got stuck on the way out.
The vet removed it whilst she was knocked out.


randomness, but funny  :laugh: :laugh:
Title: Re: Dog bone inserts.
Post by: neg on 02 October 2008, 15:54
Ti best to have room under the car in case you need to use a mallet to get the monkey in, some elbow space ;)
Title: Re: Dog bone inserts.
Post by: MAT ed30 on 02 October 2008, 15:55
spray a small bit of wd40 on it first and will just slide in  :laugh: and then add the bolt and its job done
Title: Re: Dog bone inserts.
Post by: joesgti on 02 October 2008, 15:57
did everyone use a torque wrench?? or is it ok to just make sure its "tight"
Title: Re: Dog bone inserts.
Post by: MAT ed30 on 02 October 2008, 16:03
i used a torque wrench but if you dont have one do it up tight but dont over tighten it
Title: Re: Dog bone inserts.
Post by: candy turbo on 02 October 2008, 16:36
thanks alot  :smiley:

looks p!ss easy, shame i dont have a torque wrench  :sad:
hadno idea it was that easy to fit i m going to order one too :smiley:
Title: Re: Dog bone inserts.
Post by: Hurdy on 02 October 2008, 17:16
I have the APR one, got it for free :smug: from Awesome when the APR gang were developing the stage 3 conversion there. Also got it fitted for free at JBS when they fitted the ARB's :smug:

I must admit that I haven't felt any vibration either, like Toph says it is due to the inherent smoothness of the DSG.

There have been a few warnings over on VWVortex about people who have had them fitted to tuned engines, but not used a strengthened bolt. Damaging both the bolt and the thread. :sick:
Title: Re: Dog bone inserts.
Post by: gazbutmk5gti on 02 October 2008, 17:19
It should come with an uprated bolt
Title: Re: Dog bone inserts.
Post by: RedRobin on 02 October 2008, 17:19
There have been a few warnings over on VWVortex about people who have had them fitted to tuned engines, but not used a strengthened bolt. Damaging both the bolt and the thread. :sick:

....I'm sure my Neuspeed one came with a bolt.
Title: Re: Dog bone inserts.
Post by: Hurdy on 02 October 2008, 17:42
Yes, most kits do come with strengthened bolts.
Title: Re: Dog bone inserts.
Post by: neg on 02 October 2008, 18:33
ECS comes with a bolt and large washer to hold it in.
Title: Re: Dog bone inserts.
Post by: bacillus on 02 October 2008, 19:11

....I'm sure my Neuspeed one came with a bolt.
Unfortunately it didn't and still doesn't...  :smiley:
Title: Re: Dog bone inserts.
Post by: bacillus on 02 October 2008, 19:13
did everyone use a torque wrench?? or is it ok to just make sure its "tight"
Using a torque wrench is highly advisable when installing this.

If your insert didn't come with an inclusive stretch bolt then it is highly advisable get a new one(stretch bolt) before you start your install.
Title: Re: Dog bone inserts.
Post by: Peskarik on 02 October 2008, 19:15

....I'm sure my Neuspeed one came with a bolt.
Unfortunately it didn't and still doesn't...  :smiley:

true
Title: Re: Dog bone inserts.
Post by: Peskarik on 02 October 2008, 19:16
Please, direct me to the web page where it is sold with the strengthened bolt.
Neuspeed is out.
Title: Re: Dog bone inserts.
Post by: bacillus on 02 October 2008, 19:19
Please, direct me to the web page where it is sold with the strengthened bolt.
Neuspeed is out.
You want the ECS Dogbone Mount Insert Kit .  :smiley:
http://www.awesome-gti.co.uk/vw%20golfmk5/transmission.html
Title: Re: Dog bone inserts.
Post by: Peskarik on 02 October 2008, 19:22
Please, direct me to the web page where it is sold with the strengthened bolt.
Neuspeed is out.
You want the ECS Dogbone Mount Insert Kit .  :smiley:
http://www.awesome-gti.co.uk/vw%20golfmk5/transmission.html
with bolt and cheaper than Neuspeed.... what is the world coming to?

Bunch of thanks, BTW!  :smiley:

(Are you sure it is not just the extra regular bolt they supply. These day I doubt nothing and question everything)
Title: Re: Dog bone inserts.
Post by: k4ith on 02 October 2008, 20:03
ECS dog bone insert, fitted at awesome r/r day £58 all in. tensile strengthened bolt or what would be the point otherwise
(http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e170/b44fy/IMG_0244.jpg)

the insert is the bolt in the circle.
Title: Re: Dog bone inserts.
Post by: Greenouse on 02 October 2008, 20:14
Anyone know where I can get a strengthened bolt as I already have the insert?  :wink:

I thank you  :smiley:
Title: Re: Dog bone inserts.
Post by: bacillus on 02 October 2008, 20:18
Anyone know where I can get a strengthened bolt as I already have the insert?  :wink:

I thank you  :smiley:
Just get a new bolt from your VW dealer. It will cost a little over a pound.
Title: Re: Dog bone inserts.
Post by: Greenouse on 02 October 2008, 20:21
Anyone know where I can get a strengthened bolt as I already have the insert?  :wink:

I thank you  :smiley:
Just get a new bolt from your VW dealer. It will cost a little over a pound.

I confuse  :huh: If it's a dealer part whats wrong with the one already on the car?
Title: Re: Dog bone inserts.
Post by: gazbutmk5gti on 02 October 2008, 20:33
Think its a stretch bolt, so when you torque it down it stretches slightly, giving a sort of preload to it. If you then tighten it again the bolt has already been stretched once so the preload won't be the same. Some if not most cylinder head bolts are like this, also we use them on planes for important applications :smiley:
Title: Re: Dog bone inserts.
Post by: candy turbo on 02 October 2008, 20:33
if its a stretch bolt once its been removed from its original tightness the bolt requires replacing !! :wink:
Title: Re: Dog bone inserts.
Post by: gazbutmk5gti on 02 October 2008, 20:40
could do with confirming if it is or not, but I'm pretty sure I read it somewhere :tongue:
Title: Re: Dog bone inserts.
Post by: Greenouse on 02 October 2008, 20:40
Thanks chaps  :wink: got ya now!  :grin:

Anyone know the 'official' name for it or will ''the stretch bolt from the dog mount insert'' do it?  :huh:
Title: Re: Dog bone inserts.
Post by: gazbutmk5gti on 03 October 2008, 18:22
Thanks chaps  :wink: got ya now!  :grin:

Anyone know the 'official' name for it or will ''the stretch bolt from the dog mount insert'' do it?  :huh:

I fitted the ECS dogbone insert today, and looking at the bolt I don't think its a stretch bolt, looks like a standard big bolt :smiley:

There are markings on the head which I think relate to the strength of the bolt. The standard 1 was 8.8, the 1 that came with the ECS insert was 10. something. These aren't the size of the bolt as I measured them and the numbers didn't tie up.
Title: Re: Dog bone inserts.
Post by: bacillus on 03 October 2008, 19:06
Thanks chaps  :wink: got ya now!  :grin:

Anyone know the 'official' name for it or will ''the stretch bolt from the dog mount insert'' do it?  :huh:
It's a 21mm hex bolt with VW part number N105 580 01   :smiley:
Title: Re: Dog bone inserts.
Post by: bacillus on 03 October 2008, 19:09

There are markings on the head which I think relate to the strength of the bolt. The standard 1 was 8.8, the 1 that came with the ECS insert was 10. something. These aren't the size of the bolt as I measured them and the numbers didn't tie up.
The numbers refer to the physical hardness of the bolt. 10 is the hardest.   :smiley:
Title: Re: Dog bone inserts.
Post by: gazbutmk5gti on 03 October 2008, 19:13
thought so, thanx for the confirmation :smiley:
Title: Re: Dog bone inserts.
Post by: luca on 03 October 2008, 19:34
Gaz fitted my ecs one today and the car feels much better. Its hard to explain but the car feels more solid and setting off and changing gear is much nicer.
All for £23.50 you cant go wrong.
Thanks again gaz
Title: Re: Dog bone inserts.
Post by: WhiteGTI on 03 October 2008, 19:37
Is the Powerflex Torque Arm insert the same thing as a dogbone insert????

If so, then these now come with any Miltek exhaust system for the MKV....

See here - http://www.millteksport.com/product.news.read.cfm?articleid=44

Cheers.
Title: Re: Dog bone inserts.
Post by: gazbutmk5gti on 03 October 2008, 19:50
I heard milltek were recommending a dog bone insert with their downpipes to help with the cracking issue, dean at awesome mentioned this a while ago. Without having a look at the link, I guess the powerflex is the same thing :smiley:
Title: Re: Dog bone inserts.
Post by: gazbutmk5gti on 03 October 2008, 19:52
Just looked at the link, which I suppose I should have done first, it is the same :smiley:
Title: Re: Dog bone inserts.
Post by: WhiteGTI on 03 October 2008, 19:57
Thanks Gaz!

Ive always planned to get an ECS insert...does anyone have a Powerflex fitted? If so..is it ok?
Title: Re: Dog bone inserts.
Post by: 182_blue on 04 October 2008, 08:03
Gaz fitted my ecs one today and the car feels much better. Its hard to explain but the car feels more solid and setting off and changing gear is much nicer.
All for £23.50 you cant go wrong.
Thanks again gaz

did he use ramps ?
Title: Re: Dog bone inserts.
Post by: luca on 04 October 2008, 09:45
Car jack and axle stands. He did it in no time :smiley:
Title: Re: Dog bone inserts.
Post by: 182_blue on 04 October 2008, 09:50
Car jack and axle stands. He did it in no time :smiley:
I'm tempted by this but don't have axle stands
Title: Re: Dog bone inserts.
Post by: gazbutmk5gti on 04 October 2008, 09:59
Car jack and axle stands. He did it in no time :smiley:
I'm tempted by this but don't have axle stands

go halfords and get some, there really cheap, and you will get loads of use from them
Title: Re: Dog bone inserts.
Post by: 182_blue on 04 October 2008, 10:07
I reckon we need a dog bone fitting meet LOL   
Title: Re: Dog bone inserts.
Post by: RedRobin on 04 October 2008, 16:54
I reckon we need a dogging meet LOL   

....I hope you don't mean that! :evil:
Title: Re: Dog bone inserts.
Post by: Top Cat on 04 October 2008, 16:57
Its obvious what he meant Red stop being silly.


(http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/mm104/tomashandmilly/thanksgiving_dog_gets_bone.jpg)
Title: Re: Dog bone inserts.
Post by: RedRobin on 04 October 2008, 17:05
^^^^
 
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Shame you weren't there, Top Cat - Be good to meet you one day :afro:

Title: Re: Dog bone inserts.
Post by: Top Cat on 04 October 2008, 17:12
^^^^
 
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Shame you weren't there, Top Cat - Be good to meet you one day :afro:



Yep i to wish i could have been there too, I will make a big effort next time, get a hotel the night before I've got 400,000 holiday inn rewards points to use up so i haven't got any excuses.  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Dog bone inserts.
Post by: dan_apps on 04 October 2008, 17:42

Yep i to wish i could have been there too, I will make a big effort next time, get a hotel the night before I've got 400,000 holiday inn rewards points to use up so i haven't got any excuses.  :rolleyes:


sort it out Tom!!! missed a goodun mate!
Title: Re: Dog bone inserts.
Post by: SteveP on 04 October 2008, 20:06
^^^^
 
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Shame you weren't there, Top Cat - Be good to meet you one day :afro:



Yep i to wish i could have been there too, I will make a big effort next time, get a hotel the night before I've got 400,000 holiday inn rewards points to use up so i haven't got any excuses.  :rolleyes:

As always good work with the pic TC, it made me LOL.  :laugh:

Blimey I have finally found someone with more rewards points than me  :shocked:
Title: Re: Dog bone inserts.
Post by: Top Cat on 04 October 2008, 20:28
Quote
Blimey I have finally found someone with more rewards points than me

 :grin: I have been saving them up to go back to Aruba next year. There is 3 years worth in that total.  :smug:
Title: Re: Dog bone inserts.
Post by: Greenouse on 05 October 2008, 20:15
Thanks chaps  :wink: got ya now!  :grin:

Anyone know the 'official' name for it or will ''the stretch bolt from the dog mount insert'' do it?  :huh:
It's a 21mm hex bolt with VW part number N105 580 01   :smiley:

Thanks bacillus  :wink:
Title: Re: Dog bone inserts.
Post by: bacillus on 05 October 2008, 20:20
NP mate...   :smiley: