GolfGTIforum.co.uk
Model specific boards => Golf mk5 => Topic started by: RedRobin on 26 September 2008, 17:59
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Like most mods, you don't actually need any of them, but........You could apply the same way of thinking and say you only need a Toyota Yaris (Sorry, but driving one of those is enough to destroy your will to live!). At first, my perception of a limited slip diff was that it was pointless unless you did trackdays but talking to one or two people with experience of them and also driving my good friend Jason's Mk5 GTI with a VWR Quaife convinced me otherwise. The fact that VW have now included a LSD, albeit electronic, in the GTI Mk6 acknowledges that traction can be a problem in certain conditions.
It's been a long time coming but worth the wait.
The down side of working with VW Racing is that plans and timeframes keep changing because of their priorities (this was made clear from the start and I have no problem whatsoever with this). The overwhelming up side is their expertise and high standards backed up by their ability through their contacts to solve any problems which may arise - and this was put to the test. They are dedicated VW specialists and I don't believe my GTI could be in better hands.
The first problem encountered was that Quaife delivered the wrong diff in the right packaging and further compounded by Quaife's delay in sending it! They are famous for their products but are a very typical British engineering company that doesn't always respond to customers as efficiently and quickly as they should do. It's a bit like the difference between the UK and USA postal services. The Quaife ATB diff installed is the one developed with VWR and is designed to respond more quickly to the physical inputs. It's quite a lump and weighs 10 lbs - Good job I saved weight with that carbonfibre bonnet isn't it!
VW Racing are over 3 hours drive away and so we arranged that I deliver my car on a Monday afternoon and they would start work the next day. Working on the DSG box of tricks requires a high standard of skill and, following an introduction to VWR, I chose them because of their experience and expertise. They choose their mechanics/technicians very carefully. All was going well until I got a phone call in the evening to say that they were changing the bearings - It was okay and good for many more miles but 53,000 miles of wear meant it didn't match as perfectly as they would like with the new cogs of the Quaife. But it's a VW part and not something hanging around on a shelf in stock in the UK. No problem! One was sent overnight from Germany.
At this stage I'm sat here with one eye outside, expecting to see my beloved red GTI arrive any moment as I need her tomorrow and there wasn't time for me to drive up to VWR to collect.
I'll keep you posted.
:afro:
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sounds interesting, whats the likely cost of such a mod fitted
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sounds interesting, whats the likely cost of such a mod fitted
....As quoted £1,457 including installation and vat. Just £30 more than two other quotes I asked for.
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let us know what its like then, will be interesting
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subscribed :smiley:
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let us know what its like then, will be interesting
....You bet!
It'll take time to explore it safely and a real test will be when the weather deteriorates. They're going to treat me to a session at Bruntingthorpe to 'educate' me about it.
I've only driven Jason's in the dry but his plots 290 bhp and the same limited DSG torque as mine and so I'm not totally unfamiliar.
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About time too RR :cool:
I can feel the need, the need for Quaife and Clutch plates :rolleyes:
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I can feel the need, the need for Quaife and Clutch plates :rolleyes:
Me too, does anyone know if VWR do such a mod?
I have what I suspect is clutch slip on my DSG when the remap is on, and it would make sense to do both the clutch and Diff' at the same time. :-)
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I can feel the need, the need for Quaife and Clutch plates :rolleyes:
Me too, does anyone know if VWR do such a mod?
I have what I suspect is clutch slip on my DSG when the remap is on, and it would make sense to do both the clutch and Diff' at the same time. :-)
You have the same problem as Hurdy has with his highly modded ed30
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Keep us posted RR, really interested in this :smiley:
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I can feel the need, the need for Quaife and Clutch plates :rolleyes:
Me too, does anyone know if VWR do such a mod?
I have what I suspect is clutch slip on my DSG when the remap is on, and it would make sense to do both the clutch and Diff' at the same time. :-)
....Mark (Head Tech) from VWR has just left here and I mentioned that a few of the Ed30 lads were having these problems. Also I had earlier given him all of Hurdy's details. His instant response was that unfortunately it's down to putting too much power through the DSG. The DSG box is absolutely identical on both Mk5 GTI and Ed30. I don't yet understand this because nearly all tuners limit the torque on DSG cars. I'm at max Revo recommended torque and have no clutch issues. I thought it was the torque rather than bhp which the DSG needed to have limited in order to avoid clutch problems.
VWR don't have clutch packs yet but yes it would make a lot of sense to do that at the same time as a diff.
Also my understanding is that VWR don't believe that the aftermarket fuel pumps are a good idea in the long term. Various experts can sometimes tell you quite different things and it's sometimes difficult to know who's right.
I've already introduced Hurdy to VWR so it's best I drop out of that detailed discussion now. I don't want to inadvertantly mislead anyone.
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I seen a Peloquin Dif the other week there and it was a real work of art, that and a clutch kit for me when finances allow.
Keep up the good write up Robin :cool:
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The wear I mentioned on my DSG bearings was 'engineering' signs of wear and not wearing out or wearing in such a way to give concern. I guess it's because of them working on race cars where everything must be 'perfect' that caused them to prefer to replace the bearings.
My DSG oil and filter gave nothing to be concerned about either.
P.S.- I forgot to add that the 'engineering wear' would be exactly the same on a manual transmission of about 50k miles - It wasn't a DSG specific observation.
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Mark (Head Tech at VWR) drove my GTI about 180 miles to my home tonight after installing the Quaife diff and said the only issue he found was that my front end suspension is a bit bouncy but thought it was the wrong spring loadings rather than the Koni FSD's. Earlier chat I had with Ed at APS suggested that the diff might effect how my suspension felt. I don't fully understand this yet but will be looking into it.
I haven't driven her yet! Can't wait until tomorrow.
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I seen a Peloquin Dif the other week there and it was a real work of art, that and a clutch kit for me when finances allow.
Keep up the good write up Robin :cool:
....Just so you know, VWR will only supply and install parts which they have used and thoroughly tested (mostly on track) and so they will only offer their own Quaife version diff.
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Awesome to hear Robin ! looking forward to read your review on how the car feels !!
out of intrest how much were the bearings ?
Also is this a VWR qauife Diff or the same qauife diff ?
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Also my understanding is that VWR don't believe that the aftermarket fuel pumps are a good idea in the long term. Various experts can sometimes tell you quite different things and it's sometimes difficult to know who's right.
Do you know the reasoning behing this Robin? Sorry if this has been explained elsewhere and I've missed it.
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....Mark (Head Tech) from VWR has just left here and I mentioned that a few of the Ed30 lads were having these problems. Also I had earlier given him all of Hurdy's details. His instant response was that unfortunately it's down to putting too much power through the DSG. The DSG box is absolutely identical on both Mk5 GTI and Ed30. I don't yet understand this because nearly all tuners limit the torque on DSG cars. I'm at max Revo recommended torque and have no clutch issues. I thought it was the torque rather than bhp which the DSG needed to have limited in order to avoid clutch problems.
VWR don't have clutch packs yet but yes it would make a lot of sense to do that at the same time as a diff.
Also my understanding is that VWR don't believe that the aftermarket fuel pumps are a good idea in the long term. Various experts can sometimes tell you quite different things and it's sometimes difficult to know who's right.
I've already introduced Hurdy to VWR so it's best I drop out of that detailed discussion now. I don't want to inadvertantly mislead anyone.
Thanks for the advice, my car is a standard GTi not a Ed30 - so the clutch is weak in comparison to allot of you guys. Also surprised that the ED30 DSG gearbox is the same unit as in the, assuming that the clutch comes in the same package, due to the differing power/torque the Ed30 puts out.
Now get out and test that LSD!
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I thought that robin about your bouncy front suspention when i followed you to Bruntingthorpe at inters. I remember chatting to you about the way it looks like it glides over dips in the road.
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I thought that robin about your bouncy front suspention when i followed you to Bruntingthorpe at inters. I remember chatting to you about the way it looks like it glides over dips in the road.
....I remember you saying so now. I'm in good hands with VWR - They obviously know how to set up cars! I'll be discussing the way forward with them next week.
:afro:
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Awesome to hear Robin ! looking forward to read your review on how the car feels !!
out of intrest how much were the bearings ?
Also is this a VWR qauife Diff or the same qauife diff ?
....Haven't tested them enough yet for a meaningful review - But so far, so very good!!
....Dunno bearings costs.
....It's a Quaife diff modified to VWR's design and manufactured by Quaife exclusively for VWR.
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Also my understanding is that VWR don't believe that the aftermarket fuel pumps are a good idea in the long term. Various experts can sometimes tell you quite different things and it's sometimes difficult to know who's right.
Do you know the reasoning behing this Robin? Sorry if this has been explained elsewhere and I've missed it.
....I'm going to have to come back to you on that one - I really don't want to misinform you and want to be sure of my facts (as VWR see it) first. I'm sure that not everyone in the industry is going to agree! Especially APR and Autotech.
So don't shoot the messenger, guys!
:afro:
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Also my understanding is that VWR don't believe that the aftermarket fuel pumps are a good idea in the long term. Various experts can sometimes tell you quite different things and it's sometimes difficult to know who's right.
Do you know the reasoning behing this Robin? Sorry if this has been explained elsewhere and I've missed it.
....I'm going to have to come back to you on that one - I really don't want to misinform you and want to be sure of my facts (as VWR see it) first. I'm sure that not everyone in the industry is going to agree! Especially APR and Autotech.
So don't shoot the messenger, guys!
:afro:
Oh no not at all! It would just be good to hear a respected tuning company such as VWR's opinion on the matter :smiley:
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....Mark (Head Tech) from VWR has just left here and I mentioned that a few of the Ed30 lads were having these problems. Also I had earlier given him all of Hurdy's details. His instant response was that unfortunately it's down to putting too much power through the DSG. The DSG box is absolutely identical on both Mk5 GTI and Ed30. I don't yet understand this because nearly all tuners limit the torque on DSG cars. I'm at max Revo recommended torque and have no clutch issues. I thought it was the torque rather than bhp which the DSG needed to have limited in order to avoid clutch problems.
VWR don't have clutch packs yet but yes it would make a lot of sense to do that at the same time as a diff.
Also my understanding is that VWR don't believe that the aftermarket fuel pumps are a good idea in the long term. Various experts can sometimes tell you quite different things and it's sometimes difficult to know who's right.
I've already introduced Hurdy to VWR so it's best I drop out of that detailed discussion now. I don't want to inadvertantly mislead anyone.
Thanks for the advice, my car is a standard GTi not a Ed30 - so the clutch is weak in comparison to allot of you guys. Also surprised that the ED30 DSG gearbox is the same unit as in the, assuming that the clutch comes in the same package, due to the differing power/torque the Ed30 puts out.
Now get out and test that LSD!
....Illogical isn't it! But the built-in and designed 'headroom' tolerances of the GTI DSG box of tricks for the 200 bhp (approx) GTI is obviously considered totally adequate by VW for the 230 bhp (approx) Ed30 - The DSG box is identical for both Mk5 GTI and Ed30 - I am confident about that.
....Definitely looking for every opportunity but also wanting my diff 'education' at Bruntingthorpe under my belt before risking a mouthful of hedge! Will post a small update later - Gotta go out soon for a short while - Commitment to teenage daughter and her friends.
:afro:
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I did a 180 mile trip to Plymouth Uni today with my daughter but the route is mostly fast dual carriageway not B-road twisties and no roundabouts.
The A38 dual carriageway is potentially very fast - Quite capable of safely taking a constant 120 mph if little traffic, but it's the UK, so no opportunity. There's some sweeping fast bends on it which would have been ideal for some high speed testing. One stretch was good - Dual carriageway with tight but smooth bends with an advised speed of 40 but 70 was absolutely no problem - The diff makes the car feel totally unphased and rock steady. Obviously I built up to it slowly rather than go steaming in.
On another short stretch of dual carriageway nearer to home, the road dips and bends and rises bending right then left and swooping down and with cambers which usually threaten to unsettle the car but today with the diff I could simply blast right through it. It feels almost as if my car is no longer front wheel drive.
Overall, the car feels as if the suspension has changed - It feels more settled and planted - But I'm very aware of the dangers of the placebo effect.
I need some twisty B-roads and roundabouts.
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You also need to update your sig RR... :smiley:
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You also need to update your sig RR... :smiley:
....My sig's list of mods went out of date a while ago! But thanks for the reminder - I'll do so soon.
I'm now off out to find some twisties! :evil: Back home in time for the F1 on telly :smiley:
:afro:
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I'm now off out to find some twisties! :evil:
Do you mean these RR? :grin:
(http://www.gtp.com.au/aussiefoods/largeimages/TWST.jpg)
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Planned the twistiest route I know locally and did 45 miles this fine Sunday morning. I had to keep stopping to let the traffic get clear ahead - A few wretched caravanners around and trains of slow drivers braking for every single bend when they weren't going fast enough to warrant doing so - You all know the sort!
The diff is soooo smooooth! I've only just started to explore it for myself and, as I've said before, need Mark to demonstrate it to me fully. Compared with some of the same bends without the diff, it feels much better planted but it's seamless - You only know it's working because of the better traction/handling. Not a cheap mod at about £1,550 but it transforms the car - It feels like a higher performance car. I had ESP on as I usually do.
I'm very very curious to learn how the Mk6 GTI's electronic diff feels, and indeed how it works.
:afro: Big thumbs up so far!! :afro:
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A diff in a powerful front wheel drive car does tranform the car - I know a guy with a modified Leon Cupra R and when he has a diff fitted it was like he had 4 wheel drive, the power and grip he could put down coming out of corners was amazing compared to before. Like you say though an expensive mod - def interested in how the mk6 will handle it.
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Excellent reports Robin.
Im very close to commiting now to a diff, slightly cheaper than yours though being the manual version. :)
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Excellent reports Robin.
Im very close to commiting now to a diff, slightly cheaper than yours though being the manual version. :)
....VW Racing do their own Quiafe version diff for manual too. I can't recommend VWR strongly enough!
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The Quaife ATB diff installed is the one developed with VWR and is designed to respond more quickly to the physical inputs.
I can not see that a major engineering specialist will allow any further development by a third party of their already highly regarded exisiting product. A Quaife ATB will be a Quaife ATB, irrespective of weather it is fitted by VWR or whoever else!
It's quite a lump and weighs 10 lbs - Good job I saved weight with that carbonfibre bonnet isn't it!
But being as the Quaife is merely a replacement for the similar weight standard VW diff, then there should be an extremely minor difference of the total mass of the DSG box. :nerd:
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....It's a Quaife diff modified to VWR's design and manufactured by Quaife exclusively for VWR.
Sorry, but that just does not ring true at all. The Quaife diff in your car as fitted by VWR is exactly the same as any other Quaife (Mk5 GTI DSG) diff - supplied and/or fitted by anyone else. For VWR to "claim" that the one they fit is somehow exclusive to them is very misleading, and probably breaches some UK law!
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....Mark (Head Tech) from VWR has just left here and I mentioned that a few of the Ed30 lads were having these problems. Also I had earlier given him all of Hurdy's details. His instant response was that unfortunately it's down to putting too much power through the DSG. The DSG box is absolutely identical on both Mk5 GTI and Ed30. I don't yet understand this because nearly all tuners limit the torque on DSG cars. I'm at max Revo recommended torque and have no clutch issues. I thought it was the torque rather than bhp which the DSG needed to have limited in order to avoid clutch problems.
VWR don't have clutch packs yet but yes it would make a lot of sense to do that at the same time as a diff.
Also my understanding is that VWR don't believe that the aftermarket fuel pumps are a good idea in the long term. Various experts can sometimes tell you quite different things and it's sometimes difficult to know who's right.
I've already introduced Hurdy to VWR so it's best I drop out of that detailed discussion now. I don't want to inadvertantly mislead anyone.
Thanks for the advice, my car is a standard GTi not a Ed30 - so the clutch is weak in comparison to allot of you guys. Also surprised that the ED30 DSG gearbox is the same unit as in the, assuming that the clutch comes in the same package, due to the differing power/torque the Ed30 puts out.
Now get out and test that LSD!
....Illogical isn't it! But the built-in and designed 'headroom' tolerances of the GTI DSG box of tricks for the 200 bhp (approx) GTI is obviously considered totally adequate by VW for the 230 bhp (approx) Ed30 - The DSG box is identical for both Mk5 GTI and Ed30 - I am confident about that.
Not true again. VWR seem to be giving very misleading information. There are 20 different DSG boxes, just for front wheel drive cars, with a further three for 4wd cars. Now specifically looking at just a 2007 model year GTI, and excluding the Ed30, there are 3 different DSG boxes fitted! :rolleyes:
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....It's a Quaife diff modified to VWR's design and manufactured by Quaife exclusively for VWR.
Sorry, but that just does not ring true at all. The Quaife diff in your car as fitted by VWR is exactly the same as any other Quaife (Mk5 GTI DSG) diff - supplied and/or fitted by anyone else. For VWR to "claim" that the one they fit is somehow exclusive to them is very misleading, and probably breaches some UK law!
....Well, all I can possibly do is report/post information which is always to the best of my knowledge and VWR's Technical Manager has stated to me in more than one conversation that the version of the Quaife which VWR offer is exclusively for them and has resulted from their (VWR) design suggestions based on usage in their race cars.
I best double check that I somehow haven't misunderstood what I've been told.
Whichever Quaife is hiding in my DSG box, it's a fecking good 'un!!
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Another decent long drive today - 180 miles round trip to have lunch in a Harvester pub (I recommend the Caribbean Curry) with my accountant and close friend - He's just got the latest Saab Estate but never uses the paddles!
Roads were wet after raining last night and so a good test although they quickly dried off. B-roads, A-roads, and M-way. I'm slowly getting more confident and pushing harder to see how well the Quaife performs. She finds the grip/traction very quickly, even being undisturbed by a large wet manhole cover. Sometimes, if going very hard on the throttle for an overtake, she'll imperceptibly snake under acceleration - It really is very subtle and over very quickly and it's probably only a centimetre in side movement - absolutely nothing to worry about and the ESP doesn't cut in. The Quaife feels gentle and not in the slightest bit harsh when it comes in - You have to concentrate to catch its action.
I'm not experiencing that nasty random snatching anymore either - We thought it may have been due to mixing directional with assymetric tyres but VWR also cleaned up the wheelspeed sensors when installing the diff, so who knows.
It's not a cheap mod but really transforms a remapped FWD Mk5 GTI by contributing so much to getting the power down. I have to be careful that it doesn't lull me into being over confident!
Instead of feeling pessimistic about roundabouts in wintry wet conditions, I'm strangely looking forward to it.
:afro:
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:cool: or in the words of my boss: "Fantastic! Sensational!"
1500 quid is not THAT expensive.
Get this - my Oettinger remap was 1100 quid! :shocked:
So even though I'd love to have Quaiffe, it'll cost me twice what you pay, most likely. :lipsrsealed:
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:cool: or in the words of my boss: "Fantastic! Sensational!"
1500 quid is not THAT expensive.
Get this - my Oettinger remap was 1100 quid! :shocked:
So even though I'd love to have Quaiffe, it'll cost me twice what you pay, most likely. :lipsrsealed:
your kidding ?, the Revo remaps are £500 ish, so the Oettinger is disgusting
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:cool: or in the words of my boss: "Fantastic! Sensational!"
1500 quid is not THAT expensive.
Get this - my Oettinger remap was 1100 quid! :shocked:
So even though I'd love to have Quaiffe, it'll cost me twice what you pay, most likely. :lipsrsealed:
your kidding ?, the Revo remaps are £500 ish, so the Oettinger is disgusting
Switzerland, dude.... YOu should see the prices ABT charges :shocked: :sick: And they don't even offer bigger intercoolers or TBEs (hell, they only offer back-box!)
Be happy you live in car enthusiast (the right way) country like Britain!
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:cool: or in the words of my boss: "Fantastic! Sensational!"
1500 quid is not THAT expensive.
Get this - my Oettinger remap was 1100 quid! :shocked:
So even though I'd love to have Quaiffe, it'll cost me twice what you pay, most likely. :lipsrsealed:
your kidding ?, the Revo remaps are £500 ish, so the Oettinger is disgusting
Switzerland, dude.... YOu should see the prices ABT charges :shocked: :sick: And they don't even offer bigger intercoolers or TBEs (hell, they only offer back-box!)
Be happy you live in car enthusiast (the right way) country like Britain!
tbh i wouldnt pay that, i would just get a Bluefin shipped over and pay £450 + £20 post :cool:
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:cool: or in the words of my boss: "Fantastic! Sensational!"
1500 quid is not THAT expensive.
Get this - my Oettinger remap was 1100 quid! :shocked:
So even though I'd love to have Quaiffe, it'll cost me twice what you pay, most likely. :lipsrsealed:
your kidding ?, the Revo remaps are £500 ish, so the Oettinger is disgusting
Switzerland, dude.... YOu should see the prices ABT charges :shocked: :sick: And they don't even offer bigger intercoolers or TBEs (hell, they only offer back-box!)
Be happy you live in car enthusiast (the right way) country like Britain!
tbh i wouldnt pay that, i would just get a Bluefin shipped over and pay £450 + £20 post :cool:
50 years of experience with VW engines are worth 500 quid to me
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maybe, but £1100 is plain silly for just a remap
i would say Revo but they cant be installed by yourself (that i know of)
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maybe, but £1100 is plain silly for just a remap
i would say Revo but they cant be installed by yourself (that i know of)
I'd take REVO too, with that handheld toy you get to play with your settings.
Unfortunately, REVO is not represented in Switzerland.
1100 quid... I haven't regretted it yet!
THinking of coilovers, ARBs, and dogbone inserts. Don't ask me the price. :lipsrsealed: But that is the maximum I'd do on my E30.
To get a TBE from Oettinger (ABT does not offer any, like I said) would cost over 2000 quid.
Oettinger Stage 2 (intercooler, carbonio, exhaust from cat, and 330hp/460Nm) costs over 2500 quid. (at the current exchange rate).
And living in Switzerland does not automatically mean you are millionaire.
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Robin was wondering where you've been !! :undecided:
take it the Qauife diff is very good judging by the drop in posts !! !!! :grin:
How do you feel after nearly a week Robin ?
by your last review a few posts ago it seems it has transformed the car into an even better car, maybe better than a Integra Type R or a CLio Trophy !!
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Robin was wondering where you've been !! :undecided:
take it the Qauife diff is very good judging by the drop in posts !! !!! :grin:
How do you feel after nearly a week Robin ?
by your last review a few posts ago it seems it has transformed the car into an even better car, maybe better than a Integra Type R or a CLio Trophy !!
Integra is unbeatable
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maybe, but £1100 is plain silly for just a remap
i would say Revo but they cant be installed by yourself (that i know of)
Surely a nice drive over to the UK and a visit to revo would have been cheaper and more rewarding??? COuld have joined one of the meets too!! :cool:
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dont get me wrong, im not having a go, just think the price is madness, and there ripping you off just because they can, it did my head in when Revo tried to charge people nearly £900 for a remap over here, they have sensibly dropped the price down to a more respectable £500 ish now
maybe, but £1100 is plain silly for just a remap
i would say Revo but they cant be installed by yourself (that i know of)
I'd take REVO too, with that handheld toy you get to play with your settings.
Unfortunately, REVO is not represented in Switzerland.
1100 quid... I haven't regretted it yet!
THinking of coilovers, ARBs, and dogbone inserts. Don't ask me the price. :lipsrsealed: But that is the maximum I'd do on my E30.
To get a TBE from Oettinger (ABT does not offer any, like I said) would cost over 2000 quid.
Oettinger Stage 2 (intercooler, carbonio, exhaust from cat, and 330hp/460Nm) costs over 2500 quid. (at the current exchange rate).
And living in Switzerland does not automatically mean you are millionaire.
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Robin was wondering where you've been !! :undecided:
take it the Qauife diff is very good judging by the drop in posts !! !!! :grin:
How do you feel after nearly a week Robin ?
by your last review a few posts ago it seems it has transformed the car into an even better car, maybe better than a Integra Type R or a CLio Trophy !!
....Hi :afro:
I haven't driven her every day but I'm now beginning to get a feel for the Quaife. As posted earlier, my session with VWR at Bruntingthorpe will teach me more than anything I dare experiment with on the roads. We're now going to combine that with sorting out my suspension.
I haven't driven an Integra Type R or a Clio Trophy but would suggest that the Mk5 GTI is a lot more comfortable as a ride than the Clio and isn't the Honda more of a 2-seater?
As we all know, the Mk5 GTI is such a great allrounder and that's something most rivals simply don't have. Modified, especially the Ed30, the Golf becomes awesome! At least it does in its category.
:afro:
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Sorry, RR, to highjack your thread like that. Oettinger remap is over 1000 euro in Germany. I can't do anything but bend over and take is up the tail pipe. :lipsrsealed: Anyway, I did not regret spending the money as E30 flies now.
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Sorry, RR, to highjack your thread like that.
....Don't worry - It is the nature of conversations :afro:
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Sounds good RR, my car is screaming out for one of these. If I keep here I will defo be looking into this in the future! :smiley:
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Sounds good RR, my car is screaming out for one of these. If I keep here I will defo be looking into this in the future! :smiley:
It was screaming out for 1 on Sunday night Tom:laugh:
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Sounds good RR, my car is screaming out for one of these. If I keep here I will defo be looking into this in the future! :smiley:
It was screaming out for 1 on Sunday night Tom:laugh:
Very true I was screaming with it to :grin: :laugh:
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Thanks for the demo of the Milltek and Diff in action today RR :smiley:
The way your car gripped on these roundabouts near JKM was very impressive :shocked:
However I think my SWMBO is going to put a contract out on you now as when I got home I put in a request for some additional spend which was quickly rejected (for now) :cry:
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Thanks for the demo of the Milltek and Diff in action today RR :smiley:
The way your car gripped on these roundabouts near JKM was very impressive :shocked:
However I think my SWMBO is going to put a contract out on you now as when I got home I put in a request for some additional spend which was quickly rejected (for now) :cry:
....My pleasure, mate :afro:
You better send me a pic of your SWMBO so I can keep an eye out for her! :evil:
I'm sure that the diff has even more to deliver once I've had my Bruntingthorpe 'education'. That last little roundabout was quite a good test as it was tight and wet and we went all the way round it.
My SWMBO (17yo daughter) is now asking for dinner. :smiley:
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RR is it true you now a stage 2 guy?
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Thanks for the demo of the Milltek and Diff in action today RR :smiley:
The way your car gripped on these roundabouts near JKM was very impressive :shocked:
However I think my SWMBO is going to put a contract out on you now as when I got home I put in a request for some additional spend which was quickly rejected (for now) :cry:
....My pleasure, mate :afro:
You better send me a pic of your SWMBO so I can keep an eye out for her! :evil:
I'm sure that the diff has even more to deliver once I've had my Bruntingthorpe 'education'. That last little roundabout was quite a good test as it was tight and wet and we went all the way round it.
My SWMBO (17yo daughter) is now asking for dinner. :smiley:
With the mood she's in now you wouldn't be able to miss her :wink: :evil:
(http://cafecrem.files.wordpress.com/2008/02/angry-woman.jpg)
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With the mood she's in now you wouldn't be able to miss her :wink: :evil:
....Scary!!!!
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RR is it true you now a stage 2 guy?
....Yep :smiley:
Timing 5 / Boost 7 / Fuelling 9, as tweaked by Revo HQ.
I don't know yet what my problem on the rollers was today - I had left her ticking over for at least 15 minutes! But Jim reckoned my loss wasn't due to that. She drives fine and my boost gauge flicks up to 20+ no problem. I'm in good hands with Revo so not worried.
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Thanks for the demo of the Milltek and Diff in action today RR :smiley:
The way your car gripped on these roundabouts near JKM was very impressive :shocked:
However I think my SWMBO is going to put a contract out on you now as when I got home I put in a request for some additional spend which was quickly rejected (for now) :cry:
....My pleasure, mate :afro:
You better send me a pic of your SWMBO so I can keep an eye out for her! :evil:
I'm sure that the diff has even more to deliver once I've had my Bruntingthorpe 'education'. That last little roundabout was quite a good test as it was tight and wet and we went all the way round it.
My SWMBO (17yo daughter) is now asking for dinner. :smiley:
With the mood she's in now you wouldn't be able to miss her :wink: :evil:
(http://cafecrem.files.wordpress.com/2008/02/angry-woman.jpg)
Steve PG i think i've got a thing for your MRS, :laugh:
If she say's your doing the dishes then your doing the dishes. :drool:
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^^^ Oh yes, you have to do exactly what she tells you or you get a beating. :grin:
PS - If your online dear :kiss:
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RR is it true you now a stage 2 guy?
....Yep :smiley:
Timing 5 / Boost 7 / Fuelling 9, as tweaked by Revo HQ.
I don't know yet what my problem on the rollers was today - I had left her ticking over for at least 15 minutes! But Jim reckoned my loss wasn't due to that. She drives fine and my boost gauge flicks up to 20+ no problem. I'm in good hands with Revo so not worried.
do you have a copy of your AFR graph? wondering if it could be down to something as trivial as a bad batch of petrol
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....
Good thinking, topher :afro:
The AFR plot is almost identical (just drops faster at the start) to my last session on JKM's rollers in July. In fact the whole plot is similar.
In having my Quaife diff installed the battery would have been disconnected I expect (I can check with VWR) but she's obviously not stock.
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Perhaps since your battery was disconnected for some time you should consider getting your throttle body re-aligned using VCDS.
http://wiki.ross-tech.com/index.php/Throttle_Body_Alignment_%28TBA%29
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....
Too much gobblygook for me! But thanks for the suggestion - It's appreciated. Surely my VW dealer can do this? (He's the nearest and quickest option).
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....
Too much gobblygook for me! But thanks for the suggestion - It's appreciated. Surely my VW dealer can do this? (He's the nearest and quickest option).
If VCDS has the capability to do a TBA then I dare say your VW dealer should be able to do it as well.
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....
Further thoughts regarding the diff:
The Mk5 GTI has TC as part of ESP. The ESP can be switched off via a button in front of the gear stick. The ESP always defaults to being On whenever the ignition is switched on. On the road I always drive with ESP On - Imo it's not a matter of proving you're a man by switching it Off! But different cars behave differently.
Don't ask me about the exact structure regarding TC and ESP on the Mk5 - It gets complicated! But the TC icon in the speedo lights up every time the wheels are losing traction and signifies the ESP coming to the rescue.
One result of having a mechanical diff like the Quaife is that the TC sensor system is less frequently called upon to instruct the ESP (or however it works). In other words, the ESP follows the Quaife's physical responses rather than rely on electronic sensors which can either go wrong or get dirty like my Wheel Speed Sensors did and which probably then fooled my ESP into action which caused wheel snatching in compensation - Not confidence inspiring!!
Someone who knows more than I do may post that I'm talking bollox but I offer this as being to the best of my knowledge.
Having spent as much as £1,500 on any mod, the placebo effect naturally comes into play - You say to yourself (or your SWMBO) "Of course it works well - I spent all that money on it and of course I make the best decisions". However, the Quaife is something which has such a physical result that it's not simply your butt-dyno. Whether spending the money is worth it to you or not can only be your decision but I have no regrets and everybody who has either done the same or owned a FWD car with LSD already installed, has nothing but good to say about it - It's an often overlooked mod.
If your ownership of a Mk5 GTI doesn't occasionally involve spirited driving (as appropriate) then it's not really worth it. Installation involves open heart surgery (by someone who really knows what they are doing on DSG) and you will not see any money back - You ain't gonna be removing it come sale time! But I love driving and am enjoying the benefits and have no plans to sell my GTI - It's too good an allrounder - Fun and very practical.
If you love track days (I haven't driven any) I'd say that the Quaife and a big brake kit like AP's are a must!! £3-grand for those two mods though.
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....It's a Quaife diff modified to VWR's design and manufactured by Quaife exclusively for VWR.
Sorry, but that just does not ring true at all. The Quaife diff in your car as fitted by VWR is exactly the same as any other Quaife (Mk5 GTI DSG) diff - supplied and/or fitted by anyone else. For VWR to "claim" that the one they fit is somehow exclusive to them is very misleading, and probably breaches some UK law!
....Well, all I can possibly do is report/post information which is always to the best of my knowledge and VWR's Technical Manager has stated to me in more than one conversation that the version of the Quaife which VWR offer is exclusively for them and has resulted from their (VWR) design suggestions based on usage in their race cars.
I best double check that I somehow haven't misunderstood what I've been told.
Did you get any further with this? :huh: :smiley:
Whichever Quaife is hiding in my DSG box, it's a fecking good 'un!!
Wit that sentiment - I wholeheartedly agree! :wink: :smiley: :afro:
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Nice to see the quaife is fixed RR and glad that you are enjoying it :evil: Defo one of the mods on the list when i get round to it :rolleyes:
Was the "quaife training day" at bruntingthorpe part of the package given by VWR?
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....
Another decent long drive today - 180 miles round trip to have lunch in a Harvester pub (I recommend the Caribbean Curry) with my accountant and close friend - He's just got the latest Saab Estate but never uses the paddles!
Feck - a long way just for lunch! I hope the accountant paid? :evil:
And why does he want to drive a Vauxhall Vectra in "drag" - which is what Saabs are? :evil:
Sometimes, if going very hard on the throttle for an overtake, she'll imperceptibly snake under acceleration - It really is very subtle and over very quickly and it's probably only a centimetre in side movement - absolutely nothing to worry about and the ESP doesn't cut in.
I reckon that is a limitation in your tyres? Because accelerating in a straight line shouldn't really cause any sidways slip. :nerd:
The Quaife feels gentle and not in the slightest bit harsh when it comes in - You have to concentrate to catch its action.
You really shouldn't actually be able to "feel" the Quaife working. Just like a Torsen, the Quaife should automatically aportion torque completely steplessly and seamlessly. What you may actually be doing - is actually "waiting" for one wheel to loose traction as on your former diff, but with it not actually happening, maybe the ole grey matter is processing the seat of the pants info in a different way? :undecided:
I'm not experiencing that nasty random snatching anymore either - We thought it may have been due to mixing directional with assymetric tyres but VWR also cleaned up the wheelspeed sensors when installing the diff, so who knows.
Well that is a bonus. How many miles have you now done on the newest pair of boots? They may just at long last be properly "scrubbed in".
It's not a cheap mod but really transforms a remapped FWD Mk5 GTI by contributing so much to getting the power down. I have to be careful that it doesn't lull me into being over confident!
It really shouldn't actually "bite" you though. If anything, it will simply tighten up turns during hard acceleration.
Instead of feeling pessimistic about roundabouts in wintry wet conditions, I'm strangely looking forward to it.
:afro:
That is the same reason why I love my RS4, or indeed, any Torsen-based quattro Audi. Nothing can touch it in the wet. :smug:
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:cool: or in the words of my boss: "Fantastic! Sensational!"
1500 quid is not THAT expensive.
Get this - my Oettinger remap was 1100 quid! :shocked:
So even though I'd love to have Quaiffe, it'll cost me twice what you pay, most likely. :lipsrsealed:
Come over to Blighty for a holiday then, and get the Quaife done whilst you are over here! :wink: :tongue: :smiley:
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....It's a Quaife diff modified to VWR's design and manufactured by Quaife exclusively for VWR.
Sorry, but that just does not ring true at all. The Quaife diff in your car as fitted by VWR is exactly the same as any other Quaife (Mk5 GTI DSG) diff - supplied and/or fitted by anyone else. For VWR to "claim" that the one they fit is somehow exclusive to them is very misleading, and probably breaches some UK law!
....Well, all I can possibly do is report/post information which is always to the best of my knowledge and VWR's Technical Manager has stated to me in more than one conversation that the version of the Quaife which VWR offer is exclusively for them and has resulted from their (VWR) design suggestions based on usage in their race cars.
I best double check that I somehow haven't misunderstood what I've been told.
Did you get any further with this? :huh: :smiley:
....Had more important things to discuss when we spoke last week but am speaking to them in next few days and I haven't forgotten. :smiley:
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Was the "quaife training day" at bruntingthorpe part of the package given by VWR?
....No, not part of the package. :cool:
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....
Another decent long drive today - 180 miles round trip to have lunch in a Harvester pub (I recommend the Caribbean Curry) with my accountant and close friend - He's just got the latest Saab Estate but never uses the paddles!
Feck - a long way just for lunch! I hope the accountant paid? :evil:
And why does he want to drive a Vauxhall Vectra in "drag" - which is what Saabs are? :evil:
....He always does pay. Last year he flew me just for lunch to Geneva. We go back a long way - He's been my accountant and close friend for 30 years - We've always helped each other out.
He didn't have to pay for his Saab - Don't ask!!
I frequently do such journeys - If I didn't, my GTI would only do about 30 miles a week and that would be tragic misuse!
:afro:
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The Mk5 GTI has TC as part of ESP. The ESP can be switched off via a button in front of the gear stick.
Actually, it is just the traction control and EDL which you can switch off, even though the button says ESP. When you press the button, and the warning light stays on, what actually happens is the TC and EDL elements are completely disabled, but the yaw correction of the ESP is still active. Even "hot" Dubs are subjected to "nanny state" rules. However, dont forget that the GTI already has a more aggressive "sports bias" to the basic ESP settings, so you really need to be going like an utter tool to get the ESP working with the button pressed. :nerd:
In the VAG range, only Audi RS models have a fully "turn off-able" ESP, and it can only be done when the car is stationary. :nerd:
The ESP always defaults to being On whenever the ignition is switched on. On the road I always drive with ESP On - Imo it's not a matter of proving you're a man by switching it Off! But different cars behave differently.
To an extent, I agree, particularly with demonstrating the size of your cahonies! However, the Golf 5, even the poverty spec models, have such a neutral and well-balanced chassis, that pressing the ESP button really doesn't create any dramas. The only real Golf 5 which needs the ESP on all the time is the GT TDI 170.
Don't ask me about the exact structure regarding TC and ESP on the Mk5 - It gets complicated! But the TC icon in the speedo lights up every time the wheels are losing traction and signifies the ESP coming to the rescue.
The yellow light will flash for both (or either :huh:) ESP, EDL, or traction control. So it isn't really very easy to determine which part of the ESP/ASR/ABS/EDL system is working.
One result of having a mechanical diff like the Quaife is that the TC sensor system is less frequently called upon to instruct the ESP (or however it works). In other words, the ESP follows the Quaife's physical responses rather than rely on electronic sensors which can either go wrong or get dirty like my Wheel Speed Sensors did and which probably then fooled my ESP into action which caused wheel snatching in compensation - Not confidence inspiring!!
Someone who knows more than I do may post that I'm talking bollox but I offer this as being to the best of my knowledge.
Yup. You pretty much nailed it there. :cool:
The only thing I can really add is that the Quaife is more "proactive", in that it prevents things getting out of shape in the first place. Whereas the ESP/EDL/ASR systems are more "reactive", in that they attempt to pull things back in line only after things have gone a little pear shaped. The whole ESP system is mighty quick though - you would need to be seriously talented to try and "beat" its reactions. :smug: :cool:
Having spent as much as £1,500 on any mod, the placebo effect naturally comes into play - You say to yourself (or your SWMBO) "Of course it works well - I spent all that money on it and of course I make the best decisions". However, the Quaife is something which has such a physical result that it's not simply your butt-dyno. Whether spending the money is worth it to you or not can only be your decision but I have no regrets and everybody who has either done the same or owned a FWD car with LSD already installed, has nothing but good to say about it - It's an often overlooked mod.
I agree it is a superb mod, but very pricy.
And just to be slightly pedant again, the Quaife isnt actually a "limited slip" diff, but actually an "automatic torque bias-ing" diff. The two work very different, and give very different results. An ATB diff is far superior to an LSD. :wink: :smiley:
If your ownership of a Mk5 GTI doesn't occasionally involve spirited driving (as appropriate) then it's not really worth it. Installation involves open heart surgery (by someone who really knows what they are doing on DSG) and you will not see any money back - You ain't gonna be removing it come sale time! But I love driving and am enjoying the benefits and have no plans to sell my GTI - It's too good an allrounder - Fun and very practical.
If you love track days (I haven't driven any) I'd say that the Quaife and a big brake kit like AP's are a must!! £3-grand for those two mods though.
Serious wonga, but then serious rewards, especially for the "all-weather" advantages that the diff can give. :smiley:
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Sometimes, if going very hard on the throttle for an overtake, she'll imperceptibly snake under acceleration - It really is very subtle and over very quickly and it's probably only a centimetre in side movement - absolutely nothing to worry about and the ESP doesn't cut in.
I reckon that is a limitation in your tyres? Because accelerating in a straight line shouldn't really cause any sidways slip. :nerd:
....Has only happened on a greasy surface, country road.
The Quaife feels gentle and not in the slightest bit harsh when it comes in - You have to concentrate to catch its action.
You really shouldn't actually be able to "feel" the Quaife working. Just like a Torsen, the Quaife should automatically aportion torque completely steplessly and seamlessly. What you may actually be doing - is actually "waiting" for one wheel to loose traction as on your former diff, but with it not actually happening, maybe the ole grey matter is processing the seat of the pants info in a different way? :undecided:
....You're right. I didn't express it very well - You can't feel the Quaife actually working but your brain processes the pleasing results in that you notice what happened pre-ATB didn't happen! It's exactly as you say.
I'm not experiencing that nasty random snatching anymore either - We thought it may have been due to mixing directional with assymetric tyres but VWR also cleaned up the wheelspeed sensors when installing the diff, so who knows.
Well that is a bonus. How many miles have you now done on the newest pair of boots? They may just at long last be properly "scrubbed in".
....Approx 600 miles on newest assym pair (on rear axle).
It's not a cheap mod but really transforms a remapped FWD Mk5 GTI by contributing so much to getting the power down. I have to be careful that it doesn't lull me into being over confident!
It really shouldn't actually "bite" you though. If anything, it will simply tighten up turns during hard acceleration.
....Thanks - Good to know. I'm looking forward to more education at Bruntingthorpe.
:afro: Thanks!
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The Mk5 GTI has TC as part of ESP. The ESP can be switched off via a button in front of the gear stick.
Actually, it is just the traction control and EDL which you can switch off, even though the button says ESP. When you press the button, and the warning light stays on, what actually happens is the TC and EDL elements are completely disabled, but the yaw correction of the ESP is still active. Even "hot" Dubs are subjected to "nanny state" rules. However, dont forget that the GTI already has a more aggressive "sports bias" to the basic ESP settings, so you really need to be going like an utter tool to get the ESP working with the button pressed. :nerd:
In the VAG range, only Audi RS models have a fully "turn off-able" ESP, and it can only be done when the car is stationary. :nerd:
The ESP always defaults to being On whenever the ignition is switched on. On the road I always drive with ESP On - Imo it's not a matter of proving you're a man by switching it Off! But different cars behave differently.
To an extent, I agree, particularly with demonstrating the size of your cahonies! However, the Golf 5, even the poverty spec models, have such a neutral and well-balanced chassis, that pressing the ESP button really doesn't create any dramas. The only real Golf 5 which needs the ESP on all the time is the GT TDI 170.
Don't ask me about the exact structure regarding TC and ESP on the Mk5 - It gets complicated! But the TC icon in the speedo lights up every time the wheels are losing traction and signifies the ESP coming to the rescue.
The yellow light will flash for both (or either :huh:) ESP, EDL, or traction control. So it isn't really very easy to determine which part of the ESP/ASR/ABS/EDL system is working.
One result of having a mechanical diff like the Quaife is that the TC sensor system is less frequently called upon to instruct the ESP (or however it works). In other words, the ESP follows the Quaife's physical responses rather than rely on electronic sensors which can either go wrong or get dirty like my Wheel Speed Sensors did and which probably then fooled my ESP into action which caused wheel snatching in compensation - Not confidence inspiring!!
Someone who knows more than I do may post that I'm talking bollox but I offer this as being to the best of my knowledge.
Yup. You pretty much nailed it there. :cool:
The only thing I can really add is that the Quaife is more "proactive", in that it prevents things getting out of shape in the first place. Whereas the ESP/EDL/ASR systems are more "reactive", in that they attempt to pull things back in line only after things have gone a little pear shaped. The whole ESP system is mighty quick though - you would need to be seriously talented to try and "beat" its reactions. :smug: :cool:
Having spent as much as £1,500 on any mod, the placebo effect naturally comes into play - You say to yourself (or your SWMBO) "Of course it works well - I spent all that money on it and of course I make the best decisions". However, the Quaife is something which has such a physical result that it's not simply your butt-dyno. Whether spending the money is worth it to you or not can only be your decision but I have no regrets and everybody who has either done the same or owned a FWD car with LSD already installed, has nothing but good to say about it - It's an often overlooked mod.
I agree it is a superb mod, but very pricy.
And just to be slightly pedant again, the Quaife isnt actually a "limited slip" diff, but actually an "automatic torque bias-ing" diff. The two work very different, and give very different results. An ATB diff is far superior to an LSD. :wink: :smiley:
If your ownership of a Mk5 GTI doesn't occasionally involve spirited driving (as appropriate) then it's not really worth it. Installation involves open heart surgery (by someone who really knows what they are doing on DSG) and you will not see any money back - You ain't gonna be removing it come sale time! But I love driving and am enjoying the benefits and have no plans to sell my GTI - It's too good an allrounder - Fun and very practical.
If you love track days (I haven't driven any) I'd say that the Quaife and a big brake kit like AP's are a must!! £3-grand for those two mods though.
Serious wonga, but then serious rewards, especially for the "all-weather" advantages that the diff can give. :smiley:
....Great info as usual, Sean :afro:
No regrets about the serious wonga - It transforms the car :smiley: :smiley: :smiley: :smiley:
Next stage is to fit KW's plus Whiteline AntiLift kit and do the adjustments at Bruntingthorpe. One day I'll eventually get around to powdercoating-out the white worm on my Monzas. Meanwhile, a friend has made me some carbonfibre wheel centre caps.
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Very interesting read RR... who is sorting your set-up at Bruntingthorpe?
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Very interesting read RR... who is sorting your set-up at Bruntingthorpe?
....VWR are doing my suspension in their workshop and then we'll go to Bruntingthorpe and test their setup and make any adjustments accordingly. And then back for alignment. No date fixed yet - It's always very moveable with them :cool:
They'll be showing me the limits of my Quaife as well, no doubt!!