GolfGTIforum.co.uk
Model specific boards => Golf mk2 => Topic started by: benga on 25 September 2008, 21:01
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Hi,
Be gentle - new boy in class :)
I'm considering replacing my current motor with a GTI 8v. I keep swinging from 'Wow - genius idea' to 'Are you mad?' so after I found this forum and spent most of yesterday reading it instead of working I thought would sign up and ask your collective opinions.
So - the situation is I drive about 300 miles a week, probably 3rd city, 3rd fast dual carriage way and 3rd country roads, as my daily commute so if I get a new car its got to be up to that and be reliable.
From what I've read on the forums the 8v is the one to go for if you want economy so thats what I was thinking of. From the figures I've seen on here I should be able to get better mpg out of a 8v than my current '98 Seat Arosa as its an auto and damn thirsty - best I ever had out of it has been 38mpg and that was driving like a saint! Usually around 35/36mpg in normal everyday driving (there is no point in trying to go fast really - its not going to).
So it makes sense from a economy point of view and the cars don't seem to be that expensive to pick up plus I've always liked them and I real want to drive something interesting again. Thats the 'Wow - genius idea' bit. I've convinced my self that I wouldn't miss the aircon :) and if I get one later enough it will have central locking too.
The 'Are you mad bit' is because I'd be buying a car that could possibly be 10 years older than I have now with probably more than twice the milage on it than the Arosa, plus you never know what problems you might run into with a car that age.
Any thoughts on my ramblings would be much appreciated. Am I mad? Or is it a genius idea with absolutely no drawbacks at all? :)
I realise that you lot might be a little bias ;)
Cheers.
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hey,
i have been doing a similar trip everyday for 4 months and doing about another 150-200 miles at the weekend :laugh: have not had on single problem except last night my blue sender leaked, got a new o ring so fingers crossed.
thats the great thing about the golf just pick up a new bit and onward. i replaced my 55 plate ka with the golf and boy oh boy its fantastic smiles per gallon is what its all about dude :cool:
go for it
mines a 1990 8v gti :wink:
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I do about 400 miles a week in my 8v for about £45. country roads, heavy traffic and duel carriage.
The MFA reads 27mpg at its best. Thats without a fine tune and a service along with odd tyre pressures.
Be careful with vw's though. Carry a well equipt tool box on long journeys and make sure the spare tyre has air in it :angry:
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To cover off the fuel economy bit, you'll be wanting the 8v DIGIFANT which will get at least 40mpg, prob even better if you take it easy. Note that some 8v's are on K-Jet injection which is (IIRC) a bit faster, but worse on MPG.
As for reliability etc. I do 150 miles a week in a 16v and would thoroughly recommend it. It also sometimes does 300+ miles in a single weekend if I visit my folks in Derbyshire, and handles the journey admirably, to the point where I love the long drive! When I first got my 16v I used to stop half-way to Derbyshire to "give it a rest", but now I don't even bother doing that.
Things frequently do go wrong with an 17 year old car, ranging from silly little things like an electric window motor giving up, to big things like the head gasket. But... Even brand new cars go wrong and let you down, and to be honest I know of LOADS of people that own modern cars that have all sorts of weird electrical gremlins (because modern cars are so complicated) that even the dealership can't be bothered to trace/fix the problem.
I miss aircon but then you'll get a sunroof and windows, and hey, you'll be saving the planet.
In summary...
1) More things will go wrong, but there easier/cheaper to fix. Plus without depreciation, you'll have more money to spend on garage bills.
2) I wouldn't buy one unless you intend to do SOME of the work yourself, otherwise it would get expensive.
3) Buy one as a second car for a while and iron out the kinks/see if you like it before getting rid of your other car and being dependant on it.
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I was doing 400miles+ a week in my 8v gti at one point, i went to my gti from a 2002 pug 106
I then knocked it down to around 200miles a week by car sharing and then i moved job and probably do around 70miles a week now, sometimes even less
Didnt really have any major problems apart from a few coolant leaks, an oil leak and a clutch cable snapping
Its not that bad really considering my car has done 170k and didnt have any service history
they are not hard to work on so get yourself some tools and a haynes manual and get stuck in
My main advice when buying a mk2 though is buy the best one you can find and afford, dont worry about mechanicals too much as that is easily sorted, buy them on the condition of the body
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NO WAY
ur a sensible person as this is what i have as a daily
its had a new engine in as the original one had done 194k and still workd but abit worse for wear
im running it in and through everyday traffic and 70 is a peace of cake
i got 36mpg other day on motorway so it isnt too far off the arosa
if you buy one give it a good service and you should be fine
hope u buy one and enjoy
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On the one hand, remember that this was a fairly expensive car back in the day, generally fairly well put together, so why not?
On the other, people get used to cars 'just working'. This will be an old car. If you totally rely on it, it may well break down.
Buy in at the right price, run it for a while, worst outcome the drive makes you smile but you can't put up with it and you sell for what you paid. Not too many cars you can do that with :)
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ive got a digi and drive 15 miles each way through twistys and 2 villages, i normally manage about 28mpg, however if i take it easy i can get 42mpg on the same journey. motorways, again looking at low 40s.
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ok some facts:
my GTI has coverered 242,000 miles - its no spring chicken.
the engine has never been rebuilt, but i keep up with maintenance.
until recently i was commuting 50 miles a day and it never failed on me. average MPG was about 38-40 calculated off actual fuel usage, not the MFA.
over the week i was doing approx 300 to 350 miles which cost me around £50 in fuel.
perfectly good enough for daily use. :smiley:
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I do approx 300 motorway miles a week (over the last year in my 16v) ....
MFA reads between 30 and 35 depending on how i drive :wink:
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no u arent mad. i do the same and its never failed me in 2yrs so far! :smiley:
ive f**ked it now though for saying this!!!!!!!!!!
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Get a 16V.
I recently did a round trip to leicester from home, around 400 miles and I used nearly a full tank of tesco 99 premium, about £50, much cheaper than a train :smiley:
Granted it was mostly motorway but i was avgeraging 80 mph, not prob's at all.
Its a 1991 J plate 16v and I just put it through the Mot and it only needed a new rear brake caliper (common fault, the sieze ) and handbrake cable. Very relaible car.
As Conkler points out it may be an old car but you can fix it with a toolkit as opposed to new cars which require an laptop and a degree in electronic engineering! :nerd:
Old VW's are built to last, modern cars have built in obsolescence so you upgrade to their new model in 5 years like sheep.
Plus It's an iconic shape and you'll stand out from the crowd of homogenous Euro Ncap designed cars.
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Yep, i do a 60 mile commute every day in my '87 8v and it's never missed a beat. Like the guy says, you have to be prepared for things to need fixed now and again, but in general most things are either easy to do yourself (and i'm a complete novice) or not too expensive to get done by a garage (when compared to modern car repair costs). As an example, i got the timing belt and alternator belt (plus tensioners) changed, plus a full service, for £140 at my local garage. Parts are cheap and labour costs tend to be low due to easy access to (most but not all) components.
MPG isn't brilliant - I get about 280 miles out of £34 of petrol, but i tend to rev it harder than is strictly necessary so i can hear the Jetex roar. Plus i suspect my fuel level sender is on the blink - filling up the car to the brim only raises the guage to 3/4 full.
Forget the MPG though, it's all about the fun. You'll be driving a car which any petrolhead knows it an absolute classic, but it'll only cost you buttons. You get huge enjoyment out of driving it cos the handling is great and it has real character, so you don't bother about the fact that it's not actually fast. I've got a three month old Focus ST sitting on the drive which i've pretty much given to my wife cos i don't drive it. Sure i can go very fast in it, but 90mph in my Mk2 feels waaay faster than 140mph in the ST.
Do it. But bear in mind what one of the previous posters said - buy it based on the condition of the bodywork. Engines and mechanicals can be swapped much more cheaply than paintwork can be fixed.
Enjoy.
p.s. Small bumper 8v's are best - proper classic car look. :smiley:
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I use a 1990 Mk2 Scirocco as a daily driver, same engine etc. as GTI. Cost me £350 two and half years ago, needed a new rad., and some brake lines. That's got to be cheap (and enjoyable) motoring!
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Good Points
Good Fun to drive,
Stone cold classic,
Easy to Fix
Bad Points
Old
Noisy
Little in the way of 'comforts'
No Airbag
No ABS
Not all have PAS
Some might say the above three are actually good points.
I've had my daily for about 3 years now and replaced alot of parts!!
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JUST FOOKIN GET ONE YOU KNOW YOU WANNA! :grin:
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I used my G2 Syncro as a daily until a couple of years ago. If I hadn't had kids I still would be using it as a daily.
They are not a lot more complicated than a mecanno set when you get to know them and are excellent, durable transport, as they were built to be.
Old VW's are built to last, modern cars have built in obsolescence so you upgrade to their new model in 5 years like sheep.
Unfortunately there is an EU accord that says manufacturers only have to provide support for vehicles for 15 years after they stop making them. VW stick to this. Although a lot of the G2 parts can be found on later models you do still run the risk of bumping into the odd part you won't be able to get hold of. This is likely to get worse in the coming years, too.
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People don't buy new genuine parts from VW anyway, they pay twice as much for 2nd hand on ebay :tongue:
Such mass produced cars that parts are never going to be that hard to find and most likely a whole industry will appear to support them a-la beetles/campers etc
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some wild variations on mpg here, I'll throw mine in for good measure.
1986 GTi on K-jet
£45 will fill to the brim with Sainsbury's super
310-20 if I run it into the red and take it pretty steady, so in 5th as soon as poss and keep it below 65 mph on the motorway
I get good mpg until I hit Mansfield area and then its traffic lights every 1/4 mile, the computer suggests a good 38-40 mpg, but this drops to low 30s when I hit the Mansfield.
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People don't buy new genuine parts from VW anyway, they pay twice as much for 2nd hand on ebay :tongue:
you mean edition?
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the bias you will get asking this question on this forum means that most the replies can be totally disregarded.
mind that you will have to get your hands dirty from time to time. you can't buy an old car and expect it to behave itself like a new one.
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I suppose it comes down to pounds shillings and pence at the end of the day, paticularly in credit crunch land. You could buy a diesel and arrive at your destination with a warm feeling inside knowing how much money you saved on the journey.
Or you could buy a 16v GTi and arrive at your destination with a big smile on your face, counting down the hours until you can get back in the GTi and make the return journey. If you view cars simply as a ways and means of getting from A to B then get any old thing. But if you subscrible to the theory that the journey is far more fun than the arrival, then get the GTi.
Life is short, use every opportunity to enjoy it.
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the bias you will get asking this question on this forum means that most the replies can be totally disregarded.
mind that you will have to get your hands dirty from time to time. you can't buy an old car and expect it to behave itself like a new one.
very true. although the golf has proven itself much more reliable than the newer (and lower milage) rover i had before it.
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Not mad its a great idea. I let go off my beloved 1990 8V GTI (200000 miles on clock) 4 years ago for a lovely 3 year old TDI. Thought that £7000 would buy me a car that would be low on maintinance costs compared to what i thought was an expensive old mk II gti.
How wrong was i, the TDI only a little better fuel economy but repair bills really cost so much money compared to my old GTI.
It never let me down appart from the odd head gasket and gearbox but neither of those cost that much to sort out. I think they are one of the nicest golfs to drive. Had a 1.8 T gti for a while, that just didn't have the feel of the old mk ii. I never drove a mk 1 though. Go for it, but get one with the best body work possible with a nice tight gearbox and suspension. Think a 16V would be really nice but i beleive the 8 v are a little less problematic. Mechanically they are fairly simple and built to last.
I'm toying with the idea myself.
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hey there mines a 1991 8v (digifant)with comprehensive fsh,ive seen it deliver 50 mpg on a steady run over 80 miles,there might be a few niggles need ironing out when you buy it but i would highly reccomend one mate just for the respect you get when driving,theres not many journeys when someone doesnt flash ya,good luck dude
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a good GTI will stomp those miles out without a worry. but i wouls suggest if it has to be ultamtaly relaibale buy a run out speck car if you can and then some preventive matance. i would be very tempeted to put LPG on it as the engines take it well ok you loose a bit of power so get a 16v to make up for it.
would suggest going over the car like hawk tho and rplace any mecanical parts that look like there about to go. top on my list would be wishbones, metal water pipe, oil cooler , water pipe from pump to metal water pipe, rad, thin braded pipe from rad to top bottel, top bottel cap ,heataer matrix (if not had one / feeling keen) water pump if looking makyey and a new set of belts, plkugs and leads. that wouodl be the most common reasons for seeing a gti stranded removed.
may look like thats all colling system stuff nearly, but it seems that a lot of parts ve used in the cooling system were good for about 20 yrs hence atm it becomeing more common to have cooling issues at least there easy to fix
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Wow - loads to read! Thank you all for taking the time to share your feedback and opinions, I really appreciated it. Sorry its taken me a while to get back on the forum - I've had one of those weeks.
It looks like as long as I get a 8v Digifant in decent condition and look after it I'm good for fuel economy and reliability. How much do you think I'd need to pay for a 3 door GTI 8v in reasonable condition? Happy to do a bit of work but it would have to be my daily whilst I did any work on it. I think I'd like a run out edition if possible to get the extra toys in Oak Green, or black, or blue, or Grey, or maybe white... :)
I guess the next steps are to test drive one, start saving and figure out how much the tax and insurance will sting me for.
Anyone fancy swapping my Mk1 Arosa auto for a mk2 Golf GTI? 2 careful owners. Well - it was worth a go ;)
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How much do you think I'd need to pay for a 3 door GTI 8v in reasonable condition?
(http://skugg.files.wordpress.com/2007/06/can-of-worms.jpg)
The formula is as follows:
Cost of a Mk2 GTI = Quality Expectations - (Level of Patience x Luck)
In other words, people have found decent GTI's for £500, while others have spent £3000+. IMO, £1000 will get you a good runner, £2000 will get you something lovely.
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IMO, £1000 will get you a good runner, £2000 will get you something lovely.
you will get a mk2 8v for £500 no problems. for a grand i'd be expecting something special, or with 8 more valves
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IMO, £1000 will get you a good runner, £2000 will get you something lovely.
you will get a mk2 8v for £500 no problems. for a grand i'd be expecting something special, or with 8 more valves
Like I said... A can'o'worms.
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NO WAY
ur a sensible person as this is what i have as a daily
its had a new engine in as the original one had done 194k and still workd but abit worse for wear
im running it in and through everyday traffic and 70 is a peace of cake
i got 36mpg other day on motorway so it isnt too far off the arosa
if you buy one give it a good service and you should be fine
hope u buy one and enjoy
36mpg...my 16v is returning 45mpg after a motorway run and sometimes more if frugal with the right foot! And yes me MFA is reading correct cos i did a full journey and did the maths at the end to check :cool:
I'd consider it for usre and just be patient and view a few before delving in...thats where you can then judge for yourself if you look at the varying price ranges and then go for what you are happy with
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i got a golf GTi 8v digifant and i drive it every day and i love it :)
fairly good fuel economy and quick enough for the high speeds
mine cost 650 euro , have spent a few euros making it better but i think it owes me about 1000 euro now
cheep reliable and good to look at , what more could you want ???
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Regularly get over 40mpg outta mine. Well chuffed.
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No I have a digi 8v and we drive it to and from work - about 20, 22 miles a day of country roads/duals and heavy city traffic.
I was getting about 35 to 40mpg, but I have since had the timing and CO2 set up (it was out) so need to work out new figures.
On the motorway the economy can be tremendous if you drive nicely as well.
They are a comfy car, not too big but still plenty of boot space, and a bit of fun too!
Don't spend megabucks on a low mileage car or one advertised on a 'sceney' forum, have a look in the locals/AT and you might find something that's every bit as good (or better as it won't have been stood or have alsorts of crappy tat stuck to it).
Mine's on 162K and going strong :smiley:
[edit] forgot to say how NICE a drive a mk2 8v is, you can be totally lazy with it round town as it's got just enough balls. The PAS isn't too light and wooley but is nice to have, especially if you've got twig arms like mine hahaha. It handles very nicely too, and the brakes are decent (if they aren't shot lol but that's not too expensive to sort out)
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Nope. I've got an 8v digi on a H-plate which I used to commute from Chester to Skelmersdale for a good year and a half, and now over to Salford. Mixed conditions and roads but surpasses expectations as it's fun, cheap and different to the £10-15k cars doing the same journey. Also seems to get a lot of attention, often getting 'thumbs up' from other drivers.
Just remember to service regularly, expect the odd 'issue' and don't thrash the life out of it and you'll be rewarded with a fun, cheap and reliable journey to work :)
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Hi - I just realised (4 months later!) that I didn't reply to this thread - How rude of me. Sorry!
Thanks again for all the feedback. The GTI is still real possibility but I've had so much on I've not even had the chance to find one locally to test drive. Yup, I've been rubbish! I'll report back when I find one near (or in) Birmingham I can test drive.
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ive got a digi and drive 15 miles each way through twistys and 2 villages, i normally manage about 28mpg, however if i take it easy i can get 42mpg on the same journey. motorways, again looking at low 40s.
EXACTLY the same milage, road, and fuel consumption. bout 28mpg if i go normla and bout 40mpg if i keep it under 2k rpm.
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If you don't even have enough time to look for an old car then there is no way you have enough time to keep it on the road for the daily grind.
I suggest a few year old Japanese car with FSH. This should be nice and reliable for you.
HTH
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My 1989 8v is the 9th car i've owned and by far the best.
Be prepared to search high and low if you want a good one though, mine has only just cleared 78k and is incredible fun to drive. It still brings a smile to my face when I drive it.
I live in Portsmouth and my parents live in Norfolk, when I occasionally do the 200+ mile drive I can average 45mpg on the MFA (have worked it out on paper as well and is correct).
MK2's can return shocking mpg, i got that mpg from gradual acceleration and going no faster than 80mph.
Around town with stop starts and constant gear changes I get high 20s, they do perform better on the open road.
I'd definitely say it's a worthy everyday car, still gets a lot of attention and is different to the bubble shaped cars that are on the road.
It doesn't even bother me that I have no PAS, e/w or c/l, I own one of the best cars ever made!
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My Golfs have all been reliable enough. I have had as many problems with them as with any other newish cars I've owned (including japanese).
But with mk2's you've got a fighting chance of putting it right simply and cheaply. You just gotta remember that its over 15 years old. :smiley: