GolfGTIforum.co.uk
Model specific boards => Golf mk2 => Topic started by: bigman_10 on 18 September 2008, 13:21
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Right then guys almost finished respraying, i've put a fair bit of time into this car now and i want to make it better and better, so i came to the idea of a roll caged (yes it is a 1.3 :grin:)! I'm going to gradually kit the car out with uprated brakes etc so i can eventually stick a valver in when insurance comes down a bit.
I'd like to try and build a custom 4 point with my mate who's an apprentice at his dads steel works firm, he said we'd be able to use all the equipment to bend weld and bash one up! probem is i dont know where to start? i've had a look at off the shelf 4 points and they seem to have the front section behind the seats bent into a U shape and then diagonal supports going down to the rear turrets or just below is this right?
has any body got pictures of thiers fitted? i'm looking around for ideas and patterns at the moment as i need to do a more research before taking the plunge. also would it need to be approved if its only going to be used on the road?
cheers guys
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There's a lot of science and thought goes into proper cages and you'll never find a proper 4-point cage and it's simply not worth it - you're not protecting the driver and passenger much with a simple rear hoop.
If you're only going to be running a 1.3 then you're just putting more tat in your car to haul around. Just get it on the road and start learning to drive it as it is. If you do that without a cage it might give you less of a false sense of security and encourage you to drive better, rather than thinking you'll be protected if you bin your car.
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Harsh but fair !
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I'm going to gradually kit the car out with uprated brakes etc so i can eventually stick a valver in when insurance comes down a bit.
you'll have to declare the rollcage as a mod, plus buying a standard valver instead of converting your 1.3 will be cheaper on insurance anyway :)
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rear cages are just nasty anyway, if your going to cadge a car do it properly 6+ ponit cadge with doorbars but the moment you do that practicality goes out window and its a bit heavy for a 1.3. also your cadge wouln't be msa approved witch means if you wanted to do anything that required a cagde you'd have to rip it out and get another one
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come on guys so grindin every slap of paint off and going for the rat look is fine but putting a bit of a show cage in is stupid! :grin:
come on i want to try building one and see what it entails! rome wasn't built in a day dont forget! :tongue:
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yeah but roll cages are functional, they arent for looks!
if you want a cage buy one that has been developed to work properly or its just weighing the car down for no reason.
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come on guys so grindin every slap of paint off and going for the rat look is fine but putting a bit of a show cage in is stupid!
No, rat looking a car is pretty much as stupid as putting a BS 'show cage' in.
Don't be an idiot.
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hi all
i have just signed up to this forum, and so far im not very impressed!!!!!!
i looked at topic entitled " roll cage " to look for advice and comments on fitting one!
why would anyone want to ask for advice on a forum where frequent users, who apparantly "live here", are only happy to slate peaple asking for help?
ash
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hi all
i have just signed up to this forum, and so far im not very impressed!!!!!!
i looked at topic entitled " roll cage " to look for advice and comments on fitting one!
why would anyone want to ask for advice on a forum where frequent users, who apparantly "live here", are only happy to slate peaple asking for help?
ash
They were not slating him. They were being straight with him. A home made cage vs a proper cage, I know what I'd go for... and having a cage in a 1.3 is going to make it even slower because they're fooking heavy. If you're going to fit anything, fit an ARB and strut braces.
Oh and if you think we're bad? Visit Edition38, they're bastards over there.
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ok here goes
you be wanting 2.5" 3mm wall CDS seemless tube. the hoop itself must be one pieice, go bend this right will take some skill and practice, as the tube will spring back a fair bit when reliesed, onec the hoop is done you'll be wanting some spreder plates these want to be at least 3mm plate these get welded to the bottom of the hoop then welded or bolted to the floor, next a diagonal bar goes in from the corner of the hoop behing the drivers head diagonaly down to the other side of the hoop just above the spreader plate. ( as the msa insist you have something to bang your head on ) then you go then two bars go from the top of the hoop ether side digaonaly towards the back of the car idealy as far back as possible but strut tops are a convinient place spreader plates are also required here, at theos point you may as well shove a tube in between the strut tops.
to do a proper job a harness bar now needs adding and a frount hoop is realy needed thisj is then attached to the raer hoop ether side, then door bars from rear hoop to base of frount hoop. the frount hoop should be braced behing the dash then may as well have legs welded on to the frount stuts. and the hole lots should be tagged to the body shell at evey avalible oppotunity this will now give proper protection and seriously stiffen shell. but proper bucket seats and harnesses are advised also a crash hat . aas the shell is now serioysly stiff so won't crumpel much in crash so more force on you 3 piont belts will do damage to back the bat hat is because there is now rather a lot of steel tube to beat your head on and that has the potential to hurt you lots.
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Wot he said.
But bought from OMP, or Custom Cages or fabbed up for you by a professional cage builder like Paul Botch Venners.
It's safety.
It's not for 'trying out' things to see if you can do it. It's for professionals and proper kits that are designed to protect you.
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diamond i see where your coming from, but i'm not using it for saftey and wouldn't put saftey a cage in a road car anyway as thats just asking for trouble if you're going to those sort of extremes.
So from the point of view of extra weight and slowing an already slow car down, yeah it is stupid but what is the point in being 18 if you cant be stupid once in a while! A while back i'd of shared the same view as you but i'm a practical learner and love to try new things given the oppertunity. Lets face its not the most expensive of cars in the world but my firends dad has plenty of experince with metal work as he made his own business employing 12 engineers, he'd be able to show us how to fab it and make it safe (purly for the reason if i did crash it would cause injury or damage, if it bent or came loose! not adding structural integrity) so i've seen this oppertunity and thought why not!
another example is why do people stretch rubber and slam the car so low the wheels wont turn? thats about as practical as a home made cage? :huh:
As for the stuff about dropping a valver in, yes it would be far cheaper in the long run to buy a gti but what do you learn buying it already done for you money at the end of the day is what you have to earn in order to enjoy yourself.
theres my view on it anyway but i can also see what you mean and why i shouldn't do it.
thanks for the info. danny_P you seemed reluctant but what you said is what i'm after, this may sound stupid but can you get cold drawn stainless steel, i read on club gti about the aerospace grade stuff aswell but theres not much point for my use. i asked my friend and he has some 60mm diameter 5mm think overordered and its taking up space at the moment?? (nice and chunky :grin:)
also where abouts is it best to put the two slpoing rear legs that go into the back? off the shelf stuff seems to vary?
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diamond i see where your coming from, but i'm not using it for saftey and wouldn't put saftey a cage in a road car anyway as thats just asking for trouble if you're going to those sort of extremes.
If you're not using it for safety then don't bother putting a cage in. If it's not there for safety then it's just something for you to smash your head against in an accident.
If you want proper specs on how to build a proper functional cage then find a copy of the MSA Blue Book, which describes how to build proper cages that conform to real regulations and will deliver a real safety benefit.
yeah it is stupid but what is the point in being 18 if you cant be stupid once in a while!
That's why you have the problem with your insurance costs. Try and avoid the stupidity, rather than embracing it.
another example is why do people stretch rubber and slam the car so low the wheels wont turn? thats about as practical as a home made cage?
Two stupid modifications don't make a right modification. Just because other people make dumb-assed modifications to their car, doesn't mean you have to.
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have no idea on tube specks for stainless steel, 60 x 5mm is going to be heavy, aas for the diagonals most head for the rear struts, they should go for the reart most practical point, but if you mount them right at the back of the boot and you get rear ended there going to push the hoop forward whitch ain't good so the rear struts make a lot of sense.
TBH i personaly dont think what your plannng is the best idea but if your going to do it do it properly, if you do go ahead with it please wrap it around where you and your passinges heads or any other limbs will be, use the proper wrap it's more expensive than pipe insuation but for a reason it's much denser and will actualy provide protection worth haveing it you wack it hard. also cadges arn't as easy as they look, ive cadged 2 landrover trials motors before and there were bastards to get right and thats easy compared to cadgeing a car as there will be some bastartd tight spots to weld in. as for the planned enigne change whatever you put in will be classed as a magor modifcation so make it worth it and use an abf when you do it.
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fact is a bad cage is less safe than no cage, but obviously its up to you.
I think it's FIA article 253 that has pretty clear guidance on what type of tubing to use, maybe I'll check in the morning if I can be arsed!
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try hving a lil punt on this:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/polished-vw-mk2-golf-roll-cage-rallye_W0QQitemZ300259745740QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item300259745740&_trkparms=72%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C240%3A1318&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14
may save the hassle of designing and making your own.
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This is what you want:
http://www.xsportracing.com/news.php?viewarticle&id=12
Biased as I work there but our cages are very good :smiley:
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ummm tasty how much will you do me one for ?
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Between £800 and £2k!
Paul.
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pm me a phone number then please would like more info
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01256 819065
Cheers
Paul.