GolfGTIforum.co.uk
Model specific boards => Golf mk5 => Topic started by: pridders on 11 September 2008, 13:53
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Hey All,
It is now time to change pads front and back and thought I may as well change the discs at the same time If I could get up rated discs and pads that will work well together.
Any suggestions? I have Revo Stage 1 so they take a bit of a hammering now and then! :laugh:
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Perhaps go for a .:R32 brake kit? They apparently work pretty well.
Or maybe even upgrade to Robins Racing Brakes. AP racing pots or something. Sorry cant remember. Its cold and my brain is slow :nerd:
Porsche do a kit too but its mostly for looks and costs a fair bit :undecided:
I will keep quite now and wait for the boffs to come blow you away with info :lipsrsealed:
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COLD!!!!!! U DONT KNOW WHAT COLD IS!!! :shocked: :shocked: :tongue:
as for the brake pads n discs id be interested in doing this aswell as i cant really be botherd to spend a grand on some brakes,,,,,,not if these standard ones can be good with new pads and discs
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Perhaps go for a .:R32 brake kit? They apparently work pretty well.
Or maybe even upgrade to Robins Racing Brakes. AP racing pots or something. Sorry cant remember. Its cold and my brain is slow :nerd:
Porsche do a kit too but its mostly for looks and costs a fair bit :undecided:
I will keep quite now and wait for the boffs to come blow you away with info :lipsrsealed:
....As posted elsewhere, there are a number of options which range from just changing pads/lines/fluid to discs and a whole big brake kit (BBK).
The most expensive way is the BBK but you do get a complete package which has been professionally tried and tested and is fully supported. I have AP Racing's 4-pot kit which will cost you about £1,700. Without any doubt at all, the AP's are faultless and perfectly matched for the Mk5 GTI for both fast road use and trackdays. Only this morning at about 70 on dual carriageway was I very glad of them when someone who hadn't seen me pulled into my path. I've used them at 130 mph in Germany too and they can be trusted - It's then mostly down to tyres and road surface conditions. The problem with having AP Racing's brakes is the guy behind you!! What I particularly like about them is the pedal response and direct feel.
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Only this morning at about 70 on dual carriageway was I very glad of them when someone who hadn't seen me pulled into my path.
Dont tell me you out the AP Racing brakes on the Yaris?! :laugh:
I assume the wind was blowing pretty hard to get you to that speed :rolleyes:
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Only this morning at about 70 on dual carriageway was I very glad of them when someone who hadn't seen me pulled into my path.
Dont tell me you out the AP Racing brakes on the Yaris?! :laugh:
I assume the wind was blowing pretty hard to get you to that speed :rolleyes:
....Please don't mention that fecking Yaris!! I returned it last night, which involved 30 extra miles as I needed to be back at my dealer's this morning and could have kept the Yaris another night.
I'm gonna write a serious warning review about the Toyota Yaris!
:afro:
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I'm gonna write a serious warning review about the Toyota Yaris!
:afro:
Wifes got an Aygo RR - be carefull :evil:
Cass
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Anyway back to topic. :laugh:
I believe Gaz had the Zerosixty disc's on his moddified ED30 with the standard pads?
I am torn between a set of the these discs with the Ferodo DS2500 pads or the Seat Leon Cupra/R32 bigger brake upgrade for mine in the future :undecided:
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I do not want to spend £1000's on this really as the missus will do her nut and I am wanting to get turbo back milltek by the end of the year! So as mentioned by SteveP and I think by others on previous treads Zerosixy Discs with Ferodo DS2500 pads front and back will be a nice small upgrade to standard, would you all agree? I would imagine this will cost me about £500?
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Yes I did run zero-sixty front and rear on standard pads and there was a deffinate inprovement in bite and feel, be careful not to put to hard a compound pad as they need heat to work effectively so can be a bit dodgy on the road if enough heat isn't built up. I ran some mintex pads a few years ago and they were lethal on cold mornings, had a few heart stoppers :smiley:
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Yes I did run zero-sixty front and rear on standard pads and there was a deffinate inprovement in bite and feel, be careful not to put to hard a compound pad as they need heat to work effectively so can be a bit dodgy on the road if enough heat isn't built up. I ran some mintex pads a few years ago and they were lethal on cold mornings, had a few heart stoppers :smiley:
Thanks for the advice Gazbut, When you say you ran Zerosixty's on standard pads do you mean standard VW pads? Is there a big difference in cost/performance compared to the Ferodo DS2500 pads?
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Yes I did run zero-sixty front and rear on standard pads and there was a deffinate inprovement in bite and feel, be careful not to put to hard a compound pad as they need heat to work effectively so can be a bit dodgy on the road if enough heat isn't built up. I ran some mintex pads a few years ago and they were lethal on cold mornings, had a few heart stoppers :smiley:
....Hence proving how important it is to get it right and match pad to disc appropriately. Best to get some expert advice rather than trial n error! It's simply not worth risking your (and others) safety over saving money on brakes.
T_T may know what's best, I reckon. Though if I recall correctly, he may not have agreed with AP Racing's use of Dot 5.1 fluid for road use.
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I'm due for new discs soon but not interested in the BBK upgrades - maybe some better discs like the zerosixty's, could be temped with an R32 setup but it all comes down to cost - looking to spend a few grand on the house so not much left over for the car :cry:
Did I not read somewhere the R32 setup is quite heavy compared to others?
Gaz, with stock pads I take it was better - as in no cold braking problems.
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....Didn't someone post that the Seat(?) brakes were a much better alternative to the R32. Seat? Skoda? - I don't know the difference.
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Yes, the Cupra brakes - which I thought were the same as the R32 anyway but I could be wrong.
£555 delivered - http://www.seatcupra.net/forums/showthread.php?t=186468&highlight=cupra+brake
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Yes, the Cupra brakes - which I thought were the same as the R32 anyway but I could be wrong.
£555 delivered - http://www.seatcupra.net/forums/showthread.php?t=186468&highlight=cupra+brake
Thats what I understood too, the seat version are just already painted red insteed of the R32 blue and are a little cheaper as well. :smiley:
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The standard pads worked great with the zerosixtys, If I was doing it again I would use standard again as I know they work :smiley:, could always look at a different manufacturer when the standard 1's are worn out
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I do not want to spend £1000's on this really as the missus will do her nut and I am wanting to get turbo back milltek by the end of the year! So as mentioned by SteveP and I think by others on previous treads Zerosixy Discs with Ferodo DS2500 pads front and back will be a nice small upgrade to standard, would you all agree? I would imagine this will cost me about £500?
Do not underestimate the advantages of a good brake set-up. Realistically you don't need anything like mine (10 pot TAROX GT - see sig), but a brake upgrade IMHO is much better than a Milltek TBE as a mod. Sure, a TBE will give you a better sound and a few more horsies, but a BBK will undoubtably make you safer AND faster from A to B. If you were thinking of spending up to £500 and added in the TBE then you have £1600 to play with and that will get you a much better set-up. :nerd:
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I think (unless something comes up) I wil be going zerosixty's and standard pads - which are made by ATE. In fact ATE also do some grooved discs for the GTI - similar design to brembo discs
(http://www.tirerack.com/images/brakes/search/large/ate_premiumOne_rotor.jpg)
(http://www.awesome-gti.co.uk/store/shopimages/products/normal/zerosixty.jpg)
ZeroSixty front discs - £125 + vat
ZeroSixty Rear disc - £100 + vat
just then need pads which I dont think are that much so talking around the 300 smackers mark I expect.
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Yes I did run zero-sixty front and rear on standard pads and there was a deffinate inprovement in bite and feel, be careful not to put to hard a compound pad as they need heat to work effectively so can be a bit dodgy on the road if enough heat isn't built up. I ran some mintex pads a few years ago and they were lethal on cold mornings, had a few heart stoppers :smiley:
....Hence proving how important it is to get it right and match pad to disc appropriately.
Hmmmm. Strictly staying with conventional iron discs, and not ceramic or composite brakes, then discs are much of a much-ness. They are all made of cast iron, irrespective of weather they may be "Black diamond" or whatever. Therefore, if you keep identical disc sizes, different makes of disc (of the same size) will not give any improvement. The only real disc improvement is drilling, as this can hugely reduce brake fade. However, if you have never had brake fade, then drilled discs wont be of help. A potential problem with many of the cheaper aftermarket drilled discs, is that the drilled holes are not chamfered, and can crack from the holes.
Different pads, though, even with OEM discs can provide notable improvements - though if you do suffer from brake fade, then drilled and/or larger discs would be strongly recommended.
Best to get some expert advice rather than trial n error! It's simply not worth risking your (and others) safety over saving money on brakes.
I agree that advice is always a good idea, however, some of the so-called "specialists", such as BBT and DT really should not be relied on as the last word.
T_T may know what's best, I reckon. Though if I recall correctly, he may not have agreed with AP Racing's use of Dot 5.1 fluid for road use.
I think I previously stated (though it probably got lost when the forum went down) that virtually all DOT5.1 fluids are snake oil, and are completely un-necessary on a road car. Furthermore, from model year 2008, ANY brake fluid which does not meet VW 501.14 spec will invalidate the VW warranty.
Lets take the specific AP Racing 5.1 - it has a wet boiling point of 187°C, whereas the genuine VW brake fluid has a wet boiling point of 172°C - so not much difference. Furthermore, the VW fluid is a specific "low viscosity" brake fluid, for use in ABS and ESP systems. The AP 5.1 is not, therefore will make the ABS/ESP slower reacting. Both the AP 5.1 and the genuine VW fluids have a normal service life of two years, but the real killer is the cost. AP 5.1 costs about £40 per litre, whereas the VW stuff retails for £7 per litre, with 10-15% discount just for asking. :rolleyes:
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....Didn't someone post that the Seat(?) brakes were a much better alternative to the R32. Seat? Skoda? - I don't know the difference.
The Seat Leon Cupra, the R32, the Audi S3, the TT quattro, amongst others, all use the same 345mm disc and caliper. The only difference is the colour of paint which fritz has on his brush! :grin:
Regarding weight, then the OEM 345mm setup will be slightly heavier than the OEM 312mm GTIs, but this will be outweighed by much better performance.
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I think (unless something comes up) I wil be going zerosixty's and standard pads - which are made by ATE. In fact ATE also do some grooved discs for the GTI - similar design to brembo discs
(http://www.tirerack.com/images/brakes/search/large/ate_premiumOne_rotor.jpg)
(http://www.awesome-gti.co.uk/store/shopimages/products/normal/zerosixty.jpg)
ZeroSixty front discs - £125 + vat
Is that for a pair? Anyway, still expensive. :shocked:
If these zero sixtys are the same dimensions as OEM, then forget them. They will not give any improvement in braking performance. Stick with OEM discs at £33.88 each plus vat, and instead go for some quality uprated pads.
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T_T may know what's best, I reckon. Though if I recall correctly, he may not have agreed with AP Racing's use of Dot 5.1 fluid for road use.
I think I previously stated (though it probably got lost when the forum went down) that virtually all DOT5.1 fluids are snake oil, and are completely un-necessary on a road car. Furthermore, from model year 2008, ANY brake fluid which does not meet VW 501.14 spec will invalidate the VW warranty.
Lets take the specific AP Racing 5.1 - it has a wet boiling point of 187°C, whereas the genuine VW brake fluid has a wet boiling point of 172°C - so not much difference. Furthermore, the VW fluid is a specific "low viscosity" brake fluid, for use in ABS and ESP systems. The AP 5.1 is not, therefore will make the ABS/ESP slower reacting. Both the AP 5.1 and the genuine VW fluids have a normal service life of two years, but the real killer is the cost. AP 5.1 costs about £40 per litre, whereas the VW stuff retails for £7 per litre, with 10-15% discount just for asking. :rolleyes:
....TT - Then, would you advise me to use (genuine) VW fluid instead of the Dot 5.1 when I next service my AP brakes?
Quite honestly I am not prepared to sacrifice/compromise any safety for the sake of cost [Not said in anyway contradicting your post].
I had experienced brake fade on my stock brakes and was lucky that the truck took avoiding action! It's what prompted me to take up AP Racing's generous offer.
AP said to me exactly what you have said about drilling and how there are companies out there that take advantage of a market where Jo Bloggs simply fancies the cool look on his discs and he doesn't have a clue.
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I can only go by my own experience T T, I know when I fitted the zerosixty discs to the ED30 there was a deffinate inprovement. Its my understanding that the grooves and dimples can help release gases that are built up between the pad and disc when things are getting hot and can also help prevent the pad becomeing glazed with heat by cleaning them every time the brakes are apllied more so than a standard disc because it is then just polished surface against polished surface
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Its my understanding that the grooves and dimples can help release gases that are built up between the pad and disc when things are getting hot and can also help prevent the pad becomeing glazed with heat by cleaning them every time the brakes are apllied more so than a standard disc because it is then just polished surface against polished surface
....That's also my understanding. Plus that grooves help to disperse brake dust.
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T_T may know what's best, I reckon. Though if I recall correctly, he may not have agreed with AP Racing's use of Dot 5.1 fluid for road use.
I think I previously stated (though it probably got lost when the forum went down) that virtually all DOT5.1 fluids are snake oil, and are completely un-necessary on a road car. Furthermore, from model year 2008, ANY brake fluid which does not meet VW 501.14 spec will invalidate the VW warranty.
Lets take the specific AP Racing 5.1 - it has a wet boiling point of 187°C, whereas the genuine VW brake fluid has a wet boiling point of 172°C - so not much difference. Furthermore, the VW fluid is a specific "low viscosity" brake fluid, for use in ABS and ESP systems. The AP 5.1 is not, therefore will make the ABS/ESP slower reacting. Both the AP 5.1 and the genuine VW fluids have a normal service life of two years, but the real killer is the cost. AP 5.1 costs about £40 per litre, whereas the VW stuff retails for £7 per litre, with 10-15% discount just for asking. :rolleyes:
....TT - Then, would you advise me to use (genuine) VW fluid instead of the Dot 5.1 when I next service my AP brakes?
If AP Racing, or indeed anyone else brings out an "ESP" rated DOT5.1, and you are out of warranty, and you must have a 5.1 fluid, then go for it. But as far as I have researched, no 5.1 fluid is ESP rated, so I would recommend using the VW fluid.
Quite honestly I am not prepared to sacrifice/compromise any safety for the sake of cost [Not said in anyway contradicting your post].
Absolutely. And I didn't take as a contradiction - just an honest and friendly question. :smiley:
I had experienced brake fade on my stock brakes and was lucky that the truck took avoiding action! It's what prompted me to take up AP Racing's generous offer.
But brake fade has nothing to do with brake fluid. Brake fade is when the friction lining on the pad overheats - this then gives off a "gas" (which is why drilled discs are good at preventing genuine brake fade). This brake fade then makes the brake pedal feel very unresponsive. Sometimes the pedal can feel quite "hard", but travel a long way (sometimes nearly to the floor), and other times, the brake pedal feels very "wooden".
So brake fade is a result of not being able to get rid of the heat quick enough. Did you have your open fog grilles then?
Regarding brake fluids, and the different "boiling points" - well that is the fundamental issue - between the obsolete DOT3, the current DOT4 - and the so called high performance aftermarket DOT5 (nasty, evil shyte) and DOT5.1. However, the ONLY reason to "upgrade" to a 5.1 fluid is if you can boil your exisiting, and fresh DOT4. Boiling brake fluid creates air bubbles in the system. If you have a basic understanding of hydraulics, you will know that all liquids (ie brake fluid) can not be compressed, whereas gasses (ie the air in brake fluid) can be compressed. Boiling brake fluid is sometimes referred to as "vapour lock" - but basically, if you get air in the brake hydraulics (from either boiled fluid, or simply letting the level drop too far in the master cylinder resevoir) - then the actual brake pedal will feel very "spongy". The pedal may, or may not go all the way to the floor, but the actual braking efficiency of the wheel brakes will not be altered (providing there is enough pedal to pressure the system).
A very simple way to determine between brake fade (overheated pads) and vapour lock (air in the fluid) - is to repeatedly "pump" the brake pedal. If you are able to pump the pedal back upto a normal height, then it is air in the system. With brake fade, you can pump away like a cherry boy in a brothel, but the pedal will not change.
AP said to me exactly what you have said about drilling and how there are companies out there that take advantage of a market where Jo Bloggs simply fancies the cool look on his discs and he doesn't have a clue.
Absolutely. But don't forget, many peeps do mods purely for looks, and not any improvement in function! I think you sit on both sides of the fence in that. :wink: :smiley: :smiley:
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I can only go by my own experience T T, I know when I fitted the zerosixty discs to the ED30 there was a deffinate inprovement.
But is that down to "placebo" effect.
If these ZeroSixty discs really were an improvement, why then do quattro GmbH not fit them to the monstrous leviathon which is the Audi RS6 V10, or why don't AMG use them.
And how can you dismiss the fact that you had just stripped down, cleaned, and probably put some fresh copaslip on the brakes when you had fitted them. This can have a big effect, even simply stripping down and refitting existing brake pads.
Its my understanding that the grooves and dimples can help release gases that are built up between the pad and disc when things are getting hot
Sorry, but groves and dimples are purely cosmetic, and for the "fashion-consious". The claim that grooves release the gases is pure fairy-tale physics, and simply marketing hype. Dimples must be the worst thing going, because they dont actually do anything, yet reduce the mass of the disc, which then reduces the ability of the disc to absorb the heat from the pad.
and can also help prevent the pad becomeing glazed with heat by cleaning them every time the brakes are apllied more so than a standard disc because it is then just polished surface against polished surface
And what, exactly, is "pad glazing"? :rolleyes: I know, but grooves, dimples, or otherwise wont clear glazing. :smug:
Sorry, but the "grooves" on a disc surface do absolutely nothing. If they did, then why arn't F1, or DTM, or MotoGP, or LeMans cars using groved discs? Why doesnt the Audi Q7 V12 TDI, or the RS6, or the Bugatti Veyron use groved discs? Thay all don't use grooved discs because they do not provide any increase in brake performance. :smug:
The only reason grooved discs sell is simply because they look good. :cool:
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Its my understanding that the grooves and dimples can help release gases that are built up between the pad and disc when things are getting hot and can also help prevent the pad becomeing glazed with heat by cleaning them every time the brakes are apllied more so than a standard disc because it is then just polished surface against polished surface
....That's also my understanding. Plus that grooves help to disperse brake dust.
Nope, the normal rotation of any conventional disc, along with airflow over the disc/pad/caliper area from normal vehicle motion is what clears pad dust.
In fact, grooved discs have actually been found to cause excessive and aggravated pad wear.
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....Yep, I'm out of warranty. I have the Dot 5.1 fluid because it's what AP supply with their BBK. I am on very good terms with them and will ask their opinion too on the 'ESP-rated' VW fluid being used in their kit. Having spent time with them I am naturally inclined to trust and take their advice, but also I always take notice of your advice.
....Did I have my open fog grills when I experienced brake fade? - No I definitely didn't - They were still closed versions - I have checked my photo dates and I converted to open grills 9th Sept 2006 and it was earlier in that Summer I had brake fade because AP installed my BBK the day before I drove to Berlin in early November. I just had to spend some serious time looking that all up but it's useful to know.
....Do I sit on the fence? In life I have been accused of that, but it's only because I always endeavour to see both sides of an opinion. Regarding modding, yes, some of my mods are purely cosmetic (wing mirror skins for example), some are cosmetic but have the bonus of some small/tiny advantage, others are purely performance. And some, such as open fog grills, have very debatable benefits and there are those who say they are a definite disadvantage :grin: :wink:
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Ok I think from what Teutonic has mentioned (wow, wealth of knowledge there pal :cool:) I will now look at getting normal stock Discs and maybe look at an up rated pad for front and back. Any recommendations for a pad of should I just stick with stock all round?
Normally you lot make me spend spend but I think in this instance I will have saved myself some $$$ Right what I have just saved what shall I spend it on now! :laugh:
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....Yep, I'm out of warranty. I have the Dot 5.1 fluid because it's what AP supply with their BBK.
I think that is the standard practice for all BBKs, be they from AP, Brembo, Alcon, or whoever.
I am on very good terms with them and will ask their opinion too on the 'ESP-rated' VW fluid being used in their kit. Having spent time with them I am naturally inclined to trust and take their advice, but also I always take notice of your advice.
I fully understand your high regard of AP, and respect that. However, I would be slightly cautious of their reply. AP are undoubtedly experts with brake calipers, and will no doubt state that any "DOT" fluid will be fine, in their calipers. But the real concern is how the fluid behaves in the really tiny passages in ABS/ESP modulators - and I personally doubt AP have any real concrete expertise. So looking purely at the behaviour of the ABS/ESP, I would be inclined, in this specific instance to listen to the actual car manufacturers.
Again, I could use one of my "longstanding" questions/comments - is 5.1 needed in the massive RS6, or the Veyron? No, the genuine VW fluid is perfectly acceptable.
....Did I have my open fog grills when I experienced brake fade? - No I definitely didn't - They were still closed versions - I have checked my photo dates and I converted to open grills 9th Sept 2006 and it was earlier in that Summer I had brake fade because AP installed my BBK the day before I drove to Berlin in early November. I just had to spend some serious time looking that all up but it's useful to know.
Oh, right. Thanks for looking anyway. :smiley:
....Do I sit on the fence? In life I have been accused of that, but it's only because I always endeavour to see both sides of an opinion. Regarding modding, yes, some of my mods are purely cosmetic (wing mirror skins for example), some are cosmetic but have the bonus of some small/tiny advantage, others are purely performance. And some, such as open fog grills, have very debatable benefits and there are those who say they are a definite disadvantage :grin: :wink:
Sorry, I think you may have misunderstood me. I was actually trying to state that you stand on "both" sides of the fence - some of your mods are purely cosmetic, whereas others are purely for performance. I didn't mean to imply that you "sat on the fence", ie, are indecisive. :smiley:
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Think I would be interested to know also...I wont be remapping the ED30 anytime soon so standard discs plus uprated pads should do nicely. I dont take it on any track days, so it will meet my requirements.
What size discs are they on the GTI ED30's just out of interest?
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What size discs are they on the GTI ED30's just out of interest?
Same as standard GTI.
Fronts 312x25mm, and rear 286x12mm. :smiley:
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Maybe the DS2500's ??
Anyone have experience of the DS2500's - any noisier? produce more dust ?
I would be open to other suggestions too, also what other drilled discs are available for the GTI stock setup -anyone know?
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I am on very good terms with them and will ask their opinion too on the 'ESP-rated' VW fluid being used in their kit. Having spent time with them I am naturally inclined to trust and take their advice, but also I always take notice of your advice.
I fully understand your high regard of AP, and respect that. However, I would be slightly cautious of their reply. AP are undoubtedly experts with brake calipers, and will no doubt state that any "DOT" fluid will be fine, in their calipers. But the real concern is how the fluid behaves in the really tiny passages in ABS/ESP modulators - and I personally doubt AP have any real concrete expertise. So looking purely at the behaviour of the ABS/ESP, I would be inclined, in this specific instance to listen to the actual car manufacturers.
Again, I could use one of my "longstanding" questions/comments - is 5.1 needed in the massive RS6, or the Veyron? No, the genuine VW fluid is perfectly acceptable.
....In conclusion (if such a thing exists!), I would deduce that whereas Dot 5.1 is perfectly acceptable in BBK's, VW's 'ABS/ESP-friendly' fluid would perform better. I assume that there wouldn't be any detrimental effect in using VW fluid with a Big Brake Kit on the Mk5 GTI. << Sorry I see that you have already answered this!
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I am on very good terms with them and will ask their opinion too on the 'ESP-rated' VW fluid being used in their kit. Having spent time with them I am naturally inclined to trust and take their advice, but also I always take notice of your advice.
I fully understand your high regard of AP, and respect that. However, I would be slightly cautious of their reply. AP are undoubtedly experts with brake calipers, and will no doubt state that any "DOT" fluid will be fine, in their calipers. But the real concern is how the fluid behaves in the really tiny passages in ABS/ESP modulators - and I personally doubt AP have any real concrete expertise. So looking purely at the behaviour of the ABS/ESP, I would be inclined, in this specific instance to listen to the actual car manufacturers.
Again, I could use one of my "longstanding" questions/comments - is 5.1 needed in the massive RS6, or the Veyron? No, the genuine VW fluid is perfectly acceptable.
....In conclusion (if such a thing exists!), I would deduce that whereas Dot 5.1 is perfectly acceptable in BBK's, VW's 'ABS/ESP-friendly' fluid would perform better. I assume that there wouldn't be any detrimental effect in using VW fluid with a Big Brake Kit on the Mk5 GTI. << Sorry I see that you have already answered this!
Got it! :wink: :smiley:
Basically, the DOT5.1 is best left to specialist racing cars, which have had the ABS/ESP removed - such as BTCC race cars, or track prepared specials.
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fwiw I use ATE Super Blue Racing Fluid in my car that is a DOT 4 grade brake fluid!
It has a high dry boiling point (280 deg C) and a high wet boiling point (198 deg C) but without being excessively hygroscopic.
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fwiw I use ATE Super Blue Racing Fluid in my car that is a DOT 4 grade brake fluid!
But is a low viscosity formula for ABS/ESP systems? And does it meet VW501.14?
It has a high dry boiling point (280 deg C) and a high wet boiling point (198 deg C) but without being excessively hygroscopic.
That is only 26degC higher than the VW stuff!
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I don't actually know the answer to your query but the specs of the ATE Super Blue Racing Fluid are FMVSS No. 116 - DOT4 and DOT3*, SAE J1703 and DIN/ISO 4925.
The VW manual only specifies that the fluid should be US standard FMVSS 116 DOT 4.
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I don't actually know the answer to your query but the specs of the ATE Super Blue Racing Fluid are FMVSS No. 116 - DOT4 and DOT3*, SAE J1703 and DIN/ISO 4925.
They are all standard specs for brake fluid.
The VW manual only specifies that the fluid should be US standard FMVSS 116 DOT 4.
But if you read the small print, it will say sommat like "the specification of engine oils and other fluids listed in this manual were correct when printed. Oils and fluids are constanly evolving and being improved, therefore contact your local VW stealer for the latest up to date specifications" :nerd: :smug:
Furthermore, if you look at the brakes manuals in my sticky thread, is specifically states in those of the VW brake fluid spec, and the 2008m/y requirements. So if your car is still in warranty, and the ATE brake fluid don't have the VW standard on it, and your ESP modulator goes t!ts up, you'll be looking at the best part of a £grand for a new one - and for what - £25 brake fluid with an extra 26degC higher boiling point. :wink: :smiley:
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....Just a thought, TT, but could having Dot 5.1 upset my ESP modulator to cause the 'snatching' as discussed in that Assymetric/Directional tyres thread?
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....Just a thought, TT, but could having Dot 5.1 upset my ESP modulator to cause the 'snatching' as discussed in that Assymetric/Directional tyres thread?
Oddly, I had also thought about that issue earlier, but got carried away! :embarassed:
Anyhow . . . hmmmm . . . . errrr . . . . .
Right, the 5.1, being slightly "thicker" than the genuine VW brew, may cause the ESP to be a little more sluggish or slow in its operation - but the dodgy fluid (if it is dodgy :wink:) shouldn't actually cause the ESP to "initiate" in the first place. Something other is triggering the need for ESP intervention - however, the "slower reacting" fluid might be causing the ESP to "work" for longer, and therefore making the driver more alert to its operation.
The correct fluid may allow the ESP to work much quicker - so quick that the driver can't actually feel it. But this would be too close to call, in all honesty.
My turn to straddle the fence! :rolleyes: I really couldn't say for definate, one way or the other. However, if I was pushed into a corner, I'd say change back to OEM, and see if it makes any difference.
Looking at if from another angle, others here must be using non genuine fluid! What about Hurdy with his Tarox setup, is he using 5.1? Who made his 5.1 brew? And are all those with 5.1 also suffering with ESP probs? And what about the others who had Goodyears, and also gave feedback with ESP - was it R32UK? Does he have standard or 5.1?
Anyway, time for kip!
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
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Just found this - made me laugh! What a great url (the actual website is a bit shyte though)!
www.F-inBigBrakes.co.uk (http://www.F-inBigBrakes.co.uk)
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Has anybody seen these, they have just done a kit for the 8P S3, so they should fit the mk5 to. I like the look of them very OEM plus
http://www.thettshop.co.uk/performance.asp?cat=3060&product=600521
Think you need 19's though :cool:
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Has anybody seen these, they have just done a kit for the 8P S3, so they should fit the mk5 to. I like the look of them very OEM plus
http://www.thettshop.co.uk/performance.asp?cat=3060&product=600521
Think you need 19's though :cool:
ummmm they look great :cool:
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Has anybody seen these, they have just done a kit for the 8P S3, so they should fit the mk5 to. I like the look of them very OEM plus
http://www.thettshop.co.uk/performance.asp?cat=3060&product=600521
Think you need 19's though :cool:
....I'm up there at TTSroadsport/TTshop first thing Monday morning - I'll ask if you like :afro:
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They have developed a kit using one of the lads over on ASN car, it looks very impressive and he gave it a test run in the alps and reckons there brilliant.
Don't tempt me, monies a bit tight at the minute, with buying the S3 and we've just put a consevatory on the house :smiley:
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just put a consevatory on the house :smiley:
The conservatory money pit - just looking at getting one too, including an extension aswell. Did you go for anything fancy? been looking into underfloor heating and where the plasma will fit ;)
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just put a consevatory on the house :smiley:
The conservatory money pit - just looking at getting one too, including an extension aswell. Did you go for anything fancy? been looking into underfloor heating and where the plasma will fit ;)
....Are you going to put stainless steel braided hoses on the underfloor heating system? S3 or stock intercooler radiators? Slatted carbonfibre window blinds? :evil:
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CF blinds, roof fan, bbs with a perspex cover as a side table ... this could get expensive :laugh: Although I do have some spare Monza II's :undecided:
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....And surely for the adjoining guest toilet : -
(http://www.blavish.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/06/Royal%20Flush.jpg)
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just put a consevatory on the house :smiley:
The conservatory money pit - just looking at getting one too, including an extension aswell. Did you go for anything fancy? been looking into underfloor heating and where the plasma will fit ;)
Did the underfloor heating pal, its the future, in fact its keeping my tootsies warm right now :laugh:
It depends what floor your thinking of having, I found a company that does a system designed for laminate and its brilliant, you get a digital programmable display and everything else you need, you just tell them the size of the room and they send you a box :smiley:
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just put a consevatory on the house :smiley:
The conservatory money pit - just looking at getting one too, including an extension aswell. Did you go for anything fancy? been looking into underfloor heating and where the plasma will fit ;)
....Are you going to put stainless steel braided hoses on the underfloor heating system? S3 or stock intercooler radiators? Slatted carbonfibre window blinds? :evil:
LOL - for a change, RedRobin is trying to drag a thread back on topic! :tongue: :evil:
Staying with the conservatory, you'll need Ceramic brakes to rein in your KKK04 window openers! :laugh:
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....And surely for the adjoining guest toilet : -
(http://www.blavish.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/06/Royal%20Flush.jpg)
Did anyone see Top Trumps on five? The racing yacht did actually have a CF bog! :cool:
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....And surely for the adjoining guest toilet : -
(http://www.blavish.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/06/Royal%20Flush.jpg)
Did anyone see Top Trumps on five? The racing yacht did actually have a CF bog! :cool:
Yup, I saw that. It was called a "Wallypower" yacht :grin:
http://www.wally.com/templates/popUpImgCenter.asp?ProdId=37&idImg=546&idType=1
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So what's the best option, had a spirited drive today and tried to slow then realized just how bad the brakes are LOL , especially coming from 6 pot ap's on the old car
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So what's the best option,
How deep are your pockets? That really needs to be the first question to be answered. For around £300, upgraded pads should see a big improvement. And at the other extreme, £2k will get you a nice set of 10-pot Tarox calipers and discs.
had a spirited drive today and tried to slow then realized just how bad the brakes are LOL , especially coming from 6 pot ap's on the old car
What car was that on?