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Model specific boards => Golf mk5 => Topic started by: 08micsta on 11 September 2008, 12:32
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Hello guys
I have been arguing with a friend of mine who is four years younger than me (That says it all really) :laugh: about four wheel drive and all wheel drive.
He states:
Four wheel drive is restricted to 4x4's only and not cars and is not available in any car. He also states that vehicles like an Audi Quattro are not 4 wheel drive but are simply just "all wheel drive".
I state:
That four wheel drive and all wheel drive is in fact the same thing. I also explained how the Haldex system works and stated to him that Haldex is neither four wheel wheel drive or all wheel drive.
So for the techies out there. Is there even a difference between all wheel drive and 4 wheel drive? What I am trying to explain to him is that for example an Audi A4 Quattro is the same as a standard Mitsubishi Pajero. This is true if you dont take things like low range and diff locks into consideration.
Please discuss. As I am desperate to prove my little buddy wrong.
I know its not completely related to the MK5 but if I posted this in the nonsense section TT would not be able to reply as he never goes there :evil: :kiss:
And it does sort of relate to the .:R32 I guess.
Let the discussion begin :evil:
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i thought that 4wd was the same as all wheel drive aswell to be honest :cool:
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Wikipedia says:
The term four-wheel drive describes truck-like vehicles that require the driver to manually switch between two-wheel drive mode for streets and four-wheel drive mode for low traction conditions such as ice, mud, snow, slippery surfaces, or loose gravel. All-wheel drive (AWD) is often used to describe a "full time" 4WD that may be used on dry pavement without destroying the drivetrain, although the term may be abused when marketing a vehicle. AWD can be used on dry pavement because it employs a center differential, which allows each tire to rotate at a different speed. ("Full-Time" 4WD can be disengaged and the center differential can be locked, essentially turning it into regular 4WD. On the other hand, AWD cannot be disengaged and the center differential cannot be locked.[2][3]) This eliminates driveline binding, wheel hop, and other driveline issues associated with the use of 4WD on dry pavement. With vehicles with more than four wheels, AWD means all wheels drive the vehicle, to varying degrees of engagement, while 4WD means only four of the wheels drive the vehicle continuously.
Identical drivetrain systems are commonly marketed under different names for upmarket and downmarket branding and, conversely, different drivetrain systems are commonly marketed under the same name for brand uniformity. Audi's quattro, DaimlerChrysler's 4Matic used on Mercedes-Benz products, BMW with the xDrive, and Volkswagen's 4motion, for example, can mean either an automatically-engaging "on-demand" system with a Haldex Traction clutch, or a continuously-operating permanent 4WD system with a Torsen (torque-sensing) differential.
There is often confusion as to the difference between 4x4s and SUVs. This leads to criticisms of 4x4 vehicles in the media that should actually be directed at SUVs
Nick
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Hello guys
I have been arguing with a friend of mine who is four years younger than me (That says it all really) :laugh: about four wheel drive and all wheel drive.
Easy tiger! :evil: :evil:
He states:
Four wheel drive is restricted to 4x4's only and not cars and is not available in any car. He also states that vehicles like an Audi Quattro are not 4 wheel drive but are simply just "all wheel drive".
Nope. "Four wheel drive" refers to ANY vehicle, be that car, SUV, truck, lawn mower, earth mover, electric vehicle - or whatever - which have four driven road wheels.
With specific regard to the "quattro" - I suggest you mate looks in a dictionary. Quattro is Italian for "four", and orginatates from the earlier Latin language. Lower case "q" means "quarter - a derivative of four. Even in modern day medcine, doctors still prescribe in Latin, and if "q.d.s." is written on the prescription, it means "quater die sumendus", or "to be taken four times daily". Other similar Latin prescribing terms are "q.d." - "quater die" or simply "four times daily", and "q.q.h." - "quarta quaque hora" or "every four hours. So, Audi uses quattro to specifically describe "four wheel drive", not all wheel drive. :nerd: :smug:
I state:
That four wheel drive and all wheel drive is in fact the same thing.
Correct. The "all wheel drive" is just a Yank term! :sick:
I also explained how the Haldex system works and stated to him that Haldex is neither four wheel wheel drive or all wheel drive.
Not quite correct. The Haldex system is an "on-demand" automated four wheel drive.
So for the techies out there. Is there even a difference between all wheel drive and 4 wheel drive? What I am trying to explain to him is that for example an Audi A4 Quattro is the same as a standard Mitsubishi Pajero. This is true if you dont take things like low range and diff locks into consideration.
There are differences in the actual mechanics of how you get drive to the four wheels, but irrespective of how the drive is achieved, if four wheels are driven, then it is classed as a "four wheel drive", and can correctly be abbreviated to 4x4. The Yanks will still use "all wheel drive" or "AWD", though this is not supported in any automotive text books. Get down to your library and read "Hillier's Fundamentals of Motor Vehicle Technology". :wink: :smiley:
I know its not completely related to the MK5 but if I posted this in the nonsense section TT would not be able to reply as he never goes there :evil: :kiss:
I can only just remember where I placed my white stick in the Mk5 section, drag me outta here, and I'll never find my way back! :laugh: :laugh:
And it does sort of relate to the .:R32 I guess.
:wink: :wink: :wink: :wink:
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Horney, Wikipedia is VERY wrong in this respect. Read any automotive text book, and there is a clear difference in what ArsePedia states. What they are describing is what we here in GB and Europe describe as "off road vehicles", and this is also supported by EuroNCAP.
As usual the Yanks, via Wikipedia are trying to force their very own narrow-minded approach onto the rest of the world. Just remember that, when you are trundling along in your "veeee-hick-ul", on the road to "eye-rack" (Iraq, for those ), and fill up the fuel tank with "gas", drinking your "kowwwwfeee" with "half-and-half" (semi-skimmed milk), as you admire the beautiful "sick" "color", before resuming your "vacation" along the "pavement", passing an "RV" (camper van). :sick:
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I actually read that Wikepedia article about two weeks ago (Yes its been going on for that long) and it made no sense to me and Marius (Loving the Afrikaans names) just gave me a blank look too.
Easy tiger!
Whats this about tigers?? I live in a boys hostel. Its normal to be friends with guys half your age where Im from. :grin:
Nope. "Four wheel drive" refers to ANY vehicle, be that car, SUV, truck, lawn mower, earth mover, electric vehicle - or whatever - which have four driven road wheels.
With specific regard to the "quattro" - I suggest you mate looks in a dictionary. Quattro is Italian for "four", and orginatates from the earlier Latin language. Lower case "q" means "quarter - a derivative of four. Even in modern day medcine, doctors still prescribe in Latin, and if "q.d.s." is written on the prescription, it means "quater die sumendus", or "to be taken four times daily". Other similar Latin prescribing terms are "q.d." - "quater die" or simply "four times daily", and "q.q.h." - "quarta quaque hora" or "every four hours. So, Audi uses quattro to specifically describe "four wheel drive", not all wheel drive.
My mate is a huge off road fan. His dad has a Pajero like ours and it is pretty well kitted out. Hence why he believes that anything other than a Pajero (Show me a car that has won the Dakar more than the Pajero) is the ultimate in four wheel drive.
Correct. The "all wheel drive" is just a Yank term!
Interesting you should say yank as its mostly on the jap cars that I see the word AWD. So basically they just say all wheel drive to make the car sound different? Interesting...
Not quite correct. The Haldex system is an "on-demand" automated four wheel drive.
Yeah.. I didnt really pay a lot of attention in that thread... My bad.
There are differences in the actual mechanics of how you get drive to the four wheels, but irrespective of how the drive is achieved, if four wheels are driven, then it is classed as a "four wheel drive", and can correctly be abbreviated to 4x4. The Yanks will still use "all wheel drive" or "AWD", though this is not supported in any automotive text books. Get down to your library and read "Hillier's Fundamentals of Motor Vehicle Technology".
I win :grin: And I will take a look for that book. Maybe force my dad to order it :tongue:
Thanks for the reply. I will be honest I dont always trust what I read. An example. Before I created this thread my little farmer friend did a google image search for "All Wheel Drive" and then "Four wheel drive" and the same pictures came up for both searches. I always take Wikepedia with a pinch of salt.
Mike
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I wasn't posting arsepedia as fact just as something that adds a description be that right or wrong.
Interesting stuff all this :-)
Nick
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And so he contiues to argue...
Lets be specific now. HE says that because a Quattro Audi cannot scale mountains and go through mud it is therefore not a 4 wheel drive... Like a Pajero for example....(Listen to this Tosh)
I say that irrespective of it climbing mountains or exploring the titannic under a ton of mud both cars have the exact same systems and are still FOUR WHEEL DRIVE.
So. We all know that a Audi Quattro wont do to well in the rough stuff as its not meant to be a 4x4, and the Pajero will do it with ease.
So is it just me or does there seem to be a major miscommunication about what words to use?
So is a Quattro or .:R32 seen as inferior because it cannot scale mountains? What a misconseption.
Whats the opinion on this?
Mike
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I reckon if you jacked up the ride height and fitted knobbly tyres a quattro or R32 wouldn't be half bad off road and could probably climb a mountain.
Your mate is just being a knob jockey and won't except his wrong. Tell him to phone a local rally prep team and tell them that there cars aren't 4 wheel drive, sit back watch and laugh.
Nick
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Get down to your library and read "Hillier's Fundamentals of Motor Vehicle Technology". :wink: :smiley:
....I read that as "Hitler's Fundamentals of Motor Vehicle Technology"! :shocked:
A very good friend of mine's father (the family is proudly Bavarian) was one of Mr Hitler's drivers. He had been a racing driver and mechanic and knew the 'Ring very well. There's a few stories I could tell but I've already gone off topic.
(http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b308/RedRobin_05/VW_UberAlles.jpg)
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Correct. The "all wheel drive" is just a Yank term!
Interesting you should say yank as its mostly on the jap cars that I see the word AWD. So basically they just say all wheel drive to make the car sound different? Interesting...
True, the Japs do use "AWD", but then think about it - with particular reference to WW2. After WW2 ended, particularly afer VJ, the yanks moved into a lot of the Jap army and air bases, as part of the cease-fire agreement, and the yanks still have a very large presence in Japan today. The "American" culture therefore infultrated <sp?> a lot into Japanese society, particularly with educating the Japs in the English Language - which explains why the Japs follow the yanks when using "English" phrases.
Not quite correct. The Haldex system is an "on-demand" automated four wheel drive.
Yeah.. I didnt really pay a lot of attention in that thread... My bad.
Go and stand at the back of the classroom facing the wall! :evil: :evil:
There are differences in the actual mechanics of how you get drive to the four wheels, but irrespective of how the drive is achieved, if four wheels are driven, then it is classed as a "four wheel drive", and can correctly be abbreviated to 4x4. The Yanks will still use "all wheel drive" or "AWD", though this is not supported in any automotive text books. Get down to your library and read "Hillier's Fundamentals of Motor Vehicle Technology".
I win :grin: And I will take a look for that book. Maybe force my dad to order it :tongue:
ISBN 0-7487-8082-3
It's on Amazon. Order book 2 as well, as it has DSG info. :wink:
Thanks for the reply. I will be honest I dont always trust what I read. An example. Before I created this thread my little farmer friend did a google image search for "All Wheel Drive" and then "Four wheel drive" and the same pictures came up for both searches. I always take Wikepedia with a pinch of salt.
Mike
That's the crucial thing with Wikipedia - use it only as a starting point for info, and never take it as "gospel" truth, because many of their items are blatantly wrong! :rolleyes:
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I wasn't posting arsepedia as fact just as something that adds a description be that right or wrong.
Interesting stuff all this :-)
Nick
OK, no worries. :smiley: