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Model specific boards => Golf mk5 => Topic started by: stealthwolf on 08 September 2008, 23:05
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Manual ED30.
Sat in a mate's DSG ED30. That car accelerates so fast and so smoothly, I could barely catch the change in revs and didn't feel any of the gear changes. Since then, I've been moping about not having gone for DSG (I love manual too much) but still try to accelerate as quickly and as smoothly as the DSG did. Without success!
My gear changes are crap. I know it'll take practise but are there any hints and tips about improving my gear changes? It takes something like three seconds for me to change gear! That's three seconds that could have been spent accelerating.
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a short shifter may help. :smiley:
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Join our group buy, lol!!!!
http://www.golfgtiforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=90844.0
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Manual ED30.
Sat in a mate's DSG ED30. That car accelerates so fast and so smoothly, I could barely catch the change in revs and didn't feel any of the gear changes. Since then, I've been moping about not having gone for DSG (I love manual too much) but still try to accelerate as quickly and as smoothly as the DSG did. Without success!
My gear changes are crap. I know it'll take practise but are there any hints and tips about improving my gear changes? It takes something like three seconds for me to change gear! That's three seconds that could have been spent accelerating.
....You're going to love this vid!! : -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmMNRQ1GJ3o (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmMNRQ1GJ3o)
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Manual ED30.
Sat in a mate's DSG ED30. That car accelerates so fast and so smoothly, I could barely catch the change in revs and didn't feel any of the gear changes. Since then, I've been moping about not having gone for DSG (I love manual too much) but still try to accelerate as quickly and as smoothly as the DSG did. Without success!
My gear changes are crap. I know it'll take practise but are there any hints and tips about improving my gear changes? It takes something like three seconds for me to change gear! That's three seconds that could have been spent accelerating.
....You're going to love this vid!! : -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmMNRQ1GJ3o (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmMNRQ1GJ3o)
That vid really makes me think that i should have gone for DSG..... :sad:
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....You're going to love this vid!! : -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmMNRQ1GJ3o (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmMNRQ1GJ3o)
Way to rub it in Robin.. :grin:
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....You're going to love this vid!! : -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmMNRQ1GJ3o (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmMNRQ1GJ3o)
Way to rub it in Robin.. :grin:
....Sorry, Max - I truly wasn't trying to rub it in - I just think that vid is wonderfully funny and works so well in the Japanese language - Great couple of Jap dudes :cool:
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3 seconds to change a gear - are you narcoleptic or something? :shocked: :laugh:
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3 seconds to change a gear - are you narcoleptic or something? :shocked: :laugh:
....I just had to look up the meaning of "narcoleptic" having never heard the word before.
Narcoleptic = A condition characterised by an extreme tendency to fall asleep whenever in relaxing surroundings.
Methinks it must be related to the word "narcotics". Get stoned and chill, man!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=067FMmyrXmQ&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=067FMmyrXmQ&feature=related)
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Hurdy is right tho, 3 seconds !!!? What are you doing?
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should take f00k all time to throw the gears in, i think your doin somethin wrong :huh:
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Are you only interested in going up through the box or down as well?
Going up through the box, I am to be as smooth as possible. From doing a number of advanced driving + track driving courses, slower is smoother and at speed, better because the car doesn't jerk about as much. Stability is the key here and nothing is worse than watching a car lurch forward on every gear change. I aim to change gear so that the passenger can't feel it but still allowing for me to get sustained and powerful acceleration.
Coming back down through the box, I use rev matching to smooth out the gear change again. This can be achieved by blipping the throttle to match the higher revs as the gear is engaged, or sustaining the revs.
On the track, I generally use the Heel and Toe technique to brake and blip on the down change. In cars like Porsches, it's very easy to lock up the rear diff and spin the car out if you're too aggressive :)
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Agreed - more practice and some advanced driving tuition :evil:
Don't rush the action - be smooth and progressive or you'll break something :wink:
Cass
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I've got a manual and changes up from 2nd to 3rd on onwards are smooth (and satisfying when you bang through them, I really can't imagine a DSG box being as satisfying), but 1st to 2nd is a different story, and I very rarely go through it quickly without a bit of a jolt when releasing the clutch.
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Agreed - more practice and some advanced driving tuition :evil:
x2
Don't rush the action - be smooth and progressive or you'll break something :wink:
Now where have I heard that before? :embarassed: :grin:
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....You're going to love this vid!! : -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmMNRQ1GJ3o (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmMNRQ1GJ3o)
Big deal, who cares
I am not as fast as a robot, but at least I do not have a robot to do my changes for me. Perfect shifts... boring
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....You're going to love this vid!! : -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmMNRQ1GJ3o (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmMNRQ1GJ3o)
Big deal, who cares
I am not as fast as a robot, but at least I do not have a robot to do my changes for me. Perfect shifts... boring
....I didn't post the vid to claim any superiority between the manual and DSG but only because it's a very amusing vid and a joy to watch.
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....You're going to love this vid!! : -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmMNRQ1GJ3o (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmMNRQ1GJ3o)
Big deal, who cares
I am not as fast as a robot, but at least I do not have a robot to do my changes for me. Perfect shifts... boring
....I didn't post the vid to claim any superiority between the manual and DSG but only because it's a very amusing vid and a joy to watch.
it most certainly is an interesting video. I've seen it many times. I saw it before I went to buy my manual E30.
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....You're going to love this vid!! : -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmMNRQ1GJ3o (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmMNRQ1GJ3o)
Big deal, who cares
I am not as fast as a robot, but at least I do not have a robot to do my changes for me. Perfect shifts... boring
....I didn't post the vid to claim any superiority between the manual and DSG but only because it's a very amusing vid and a joy to watch.
it most certainly is an interesting video. I've seen it many times. I saw it before I went to buy my manual E30.
That figures lol! :wink:
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That figures lol! :wink:
I did.
Being a little faster does not mean that much to me, when it comes to automatic. (OK, ok, DSG is "manual" :rolleyes: )
The only problem I have with manual is sitting in a queue that goes uphill and moving 10 inches at a time. I really cry for the clutch. In fact when I move and then depress the clutch I hear a clunking sound, I wonder what it is... :sad:
I want 335i with manual, as well.
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....Each To Their Own (ETTO), Pesk :afro:
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robin you are soooo naughty posting that link!! but its soooo true that video. i heard from the somewhere, that the speed in dsg gearchanges will be equivelent to having approx 30 xtra horsepower approx in 0-60 run (if its straight line speed comparison you after)
I guess it all to do with your motion and technique, start off slow, dont push her too hard or she gets put off, ease her gently, untill shes opened up and warmed up nicely.Getting a good feel when it the wet is always best, and try not to do it whilst trying new manouvers. If it pops out, can hirt if you catch it wrong.
HTH your style, hope you get as slick as the rest of us :wink:
Phil :smiley:
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3 seconds to change a gear - are you narcoleptic or something? :shocked: :laugh:
Lol it's not actually three seconds but it bloody well feels like it, especially compared to DSG. It's more like
- clutch to floor
- change gear (probably takes bout as long as any of you guys)
- clutch to biting point quickly, and a little more slowly to full raise
Are you only interested in going up through the box or down as well?
Both.
Coming back down through the box, I use rev matching to smooth out the gear change again. This can be achieved by blipping the throttle to match the higher revs as the gear is engaged, or sustaining the revs.
What is blipping and how do I do it? I've tried heel-toeing before without success. Managed to kinda figure it out in the fiesta but wasn't very good at it.
1st to 2nd is a different story, and I very rarely go through it quickly without a bit of a jolt when releasing the clutch.
That happens to me and it looks to others like I can't control the car.
If y'all recommend advanced driving tuition, who'd be the best people to go to?
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....Advanced driving tuition tends to be more about roadcraft than such things as gearshift techniques. It usually assumes you have already mastered such things.
A course such as CarLimits may be of some use - You basically explore the absolute limits of your own car under tuition and on North Weald airfield where you can't hit anything. Be prepared for a full day of very severe tyre wear and 11 mpg!!
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Advanced Driving:
I - Information (road conditions/hazard/signs/traffic etc)
P - Position (of your car on the road)
S - Speed (correct speed relative to the hazard)
G - Gear (correct gear for the manoeuver)
A - Acceleration (through the hazard)
Cass
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....Advanced driving tuition tends to be more about roadcraft than such things as gearshift techniques. It usually assumes you have already mastered such things.
A course such as CarLimits may be of some use - You basically explore the absolute limits of your own car under tuition and on North Weald airfield where you can't hit anything. Be prepared for a full day of very severe tyre wear and 11 mpg!!
I’d have to disagree with that comment Red to a certain degree. IAM and RoADA do focus on Roadcraft and the IPSGA system (Information, Position, Speed, Gear and Acceleration). However, you do focus on elements such as smooth gear changing as I’d say about 99% of people who have passed the DSA test cannot gear change properly. This is the sort of gear changing that is still quick but that you cannot feel in the car. My old instructor used to say “imagine there is a pot of paint sitting in the passenger footwell and you don’t want to spill itâ€. The real art is actually making more progress than you did before, but without “spilling the paint†by smooth gear changes.
There is a lot to learn from advanced driving and I think there is a stigma sometimes attached to it. Some people seem to think that it’s a bunch of flat capped old men moaning about speed limits. In my experience, the likes of IAM can be a little bit like this, however once you start doing courses such as the RoADA test and move up to look at entry into the HPC (High Performance Club), you realise that in fact, it’s full of petrol heads!
To give you an idea, I went out with one of the former gatekeepers of the HPC (the guys that decide if you can get into the club). This guy had a standard Golf TDI and we followed him onto the track at Bruntingthorpe to go over to our area where we were doing our activities. I was in a Caterham R300 (300 bhp per tonne) and the other guy was in an M3 (previous version). I kid you not, we could not keep up with this guy in the Golf because on the corners, he was just leaving us for dead. It was a little bit damp but neither of us could keep up. Why? Because he was applying all of the techniques (albeit at a high level) that you learn.
The sort of techniques that you pick up in the higher level RoADA and entry level HPC training are things such as…
Rev matching - You can use techniques such as Heel and Toe (see here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JliPGde8jMM) which basically allows you to brake and match the revs at the same time. This stops the rear end of the car (diff) locking up. You may have heard that the drifters use diff locking to get the car into a slide and the back end out to drift it around the corner. This happens when you lift off the clutch sharply which snaps when the gear is re-engaged. Therefore heel and toe stops this happening.
You can also “blip†the throttle to rev match and that can be achieved by doing the following. You’re in third gear, approaching a bend, on the brakes to reduce the speed, off the brakes, engage the clutch, select second gear, before you lift the clutch to the biting point you blip the throttle to bring the revs up to match the revs needed when the clutch is engaged. For example, if you’re doing 3000rpm in third gear at 50mph and select second gear, you might then be at 5000rpm. So what you’d do is blip the throttle to 5000rpm and then lift the clutch to engage second gear. This basically stops the jolting in the car and makes for a smooth gear change. If you listen to the DSG box, it blips on the down-change :)
There are a number of other techniques taught in advanced driving and I’ll not go into all of them, otherwise I’ll by typing all day but a few are:
1. Balancing the car on the throttle. There is a lot of work you can do on the weight shift of a car. Again, going into a corner, a lot of people will brake and make their gear change going in, stay off the power until the apex and then stamp the throttle down again. The faster way is to brake, heel and toe gear change and then come back on the throttle (very lightly though) to balance the car through the bend.
This light throttle balances the weight of the car evenly and sets it up better (especially at higher speeds). If you go in braking and changing gear, all of the weight is on the front of the car which means the rear of the car can be light. If this happens when you turn in, you can put the car into a spin. At low speeds, you’ll not notice it, but once you get to higher speeds, it makes all the difference. Basically the same happens when you lift off on a bend. The weight shifts to the front and you get “lift-off oversteerâ€. Great fun on the track, but not something you want to be doing on the way home from work in rush hour :grin:
People also steer too much. You can get away with a lot less steering than you think and actually drive the car on the throttle. Again it's all about balance and application and not something I can really explain very well by typing it.
2. Ever heard the phrase “you must never brake on a bendâ€? Yep me too until one of the advanced instructors said to me “yeah unless you’re using trail brakingâ€. What’s this I hear you ask? Well I’ll not go into it (google it) but it basically allows you to enter and exit a corner on full throttle.
Basically there is tons to learn and I took the decision a while ago that it doesn’t matter how fast my car is, it’s only as good as the driver in it. It’s humbling when you see a guy in a TDI MKIV Golf leaving a guy in his 345bhp M3 in his dust just because he’s an amazing driver!!
I’m no expert, but from what I’ve seen, there is a lot to be gained from learning this stuff. Oh and many benefits as well. Only a couple of weeks ago the HPC invited me and a number of others to go to Millbrook with them. It was un-restricted access to drive around the facility. I went on the High Speed Bowl, wet skid pan, outer handling circuit and the famous Alpine Route.
It was a fantastic day but there were two highlights. The first was getting taken out as a passenger in a 350k Porsche Carrera GT! But the best bit was watching one of the top HPC drivers in my car, chasing the Carrera GT on its hot lap around the Alpine Circuit and the Carrera could not shake us of his tail!! Yeah my car is quick but it’s not THAT quick! There’s no way I could have kept up, but it just goes to show you what a good driver can do!
Anyway, I’ll stop babbling now :)
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....Great post, Chris - I'm glad I made my comment if only because it prompted yours so very fully :afro:
I think I know who that guy in the Golf TDI is - I've heard of that happening before.
I wasn't given much input on my actual gearshifts on my Drivetrain course, possibly because of having DSG, but I was encouraged to use the gears to optimum effect much more - To be in the appropriate gear at all times.
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....Great post, Chris - I'm glad I made my comment if only because it prompted yours so very fully :afro:
I think I know who that guy in the Golf TDI is - I've heard of that happening before.
I wasn't given much input on my actual gearshifts on my Drivetrain course, possibly because of having DSG, but I was encouraged to use the gears to optimum effect much more - To be in the appropriate gear at all times.
Thanks Red :afro:
I try not to put many posts up on advanced level driving because I don't want to be seen to be preaching, but there is just so much out there to learn.
I always hold back when someone posts up a thread like "how can I make my car faster" and everyone comes back about lowering the car, remapping it etc. Sure, these sorts of mods do make a car more fun, but you can't transfer it car to car. Hell, I've put on a sports exhaust, sports cat and performance airbox on my car, but only because I like the sound and improved throttle response, so I'm not saying people shouldn't mod. I mean I only have to look at your car to think how good it looks now compared to the standard GTI!
However, with improving your driving, you really can exploit the most out of the car. The guy in the TDI is called Don Palmer and he is the limit handling god! He took my car out at Millbrook and we were lapping 450bhp Porsche Turbos! LAPPING THEM!! I went around and I could keep up with them, but I wasn't getting anywhere near lapping them. He was sideways on most corners and trail braking into nearly every single one. At times I thought "there is no possible way on this earth that we're going to make that corner...I would have braked about 20 seconds ago" and low and behold, we go through the corner and I'm sitting there thinking "...how....how is that possible?!?!". I mean I know what he's doing but I can't replicate it haha! I've been out with this guy sliding around a corner in a Caterham at 120mph and this was quicker than I was managing on the straights!
It just puts it all into perspective really. As much as I love cars, I love my driving just as much and the more I learn to improve it, the more fun I get out of my car!
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Agree - cracking post Chris :smug:
Cass
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Thanks Cass :afro: From your posts I can see that you've had training yourself. What sort of things have you done so far?
Red - If it's limit handling you're interested in, then I agree, the CarLimits days are fantastic value for money. Their activity days are only £38 for the day and I know through the Lotus forums, you can get the same day for £20!
However, what I'd recommend to anyone interested in this is go out and get some training first (a limit handling day with Don Palmer is a good place to start). Then when you go to the track, you can work on and apply the techniques learnt.
Whenever someone from the Lotus forums has a spin on the road and posts about it, everyone always posts the same thing - Activity day at CarLimits. Whereas this is undoubtedly the right thing to do (i.e. go to a track and mess about with the car safely), I can't help but think that they'll go there only to do the same things badly but at higher speeds. There is no learning in that. It's best to get some training and go and practice it, otherwise when you do finally get some training, it's harder to undo the years of doing something wrong.
I think the hardest part for most people is that they worry about someone criticising their driving. It's very much a macho thing and when I'm out with mates, I'll never say to them "oh I wouldn't have lifted off there" or "I wouldn't have used that gear". It's not my place to say so. However, I guarantee all it would take is one hot lap around a track with someone like Don for them to realise that actually, as good as they think they are, they're not even on the scale of what can be achieved with a bit of work.
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....Yep, Don Palmer is the one I thought you were referring to :afro:
You never ever stop learning and the ever changing dynamics of circumstances while driving forms so much of the reason why I love driving so much. Although the Jelly Mould Toyota Yaris loaner I've got for a couple of days doesn't exactly make you feel you can't wait to go out for a drive! However, I did notice this morning when I automatically held back an appropriate distance from the back of a truck and positioned myself for an overtake from there that the Jelly Mould simply wouldn't have the power and so I hung back even more and to the left side to allow others in higher performance cars to make their progress. The trouble is that your average Jelly Mould driver has never had any performance car training nor experience and just tucks up dangerously and blindly slipstreaming and forming a train of cars behind.
Only yesterday I witnessed a very close miss of what would have been a very nasty and possibly fatal head-on. The small Fiat three cars ahead of me was tucked up close behind an artic (A35) and kept popping out to overtake but had to very sharply keep popping back in due to oncoming traffic on what is a fast stretch. I could see that he/she was becoming more and more impatient and I decided to hold back even further but position myself defensively to discourage anyone overtaking me into the gap I created. As I feared, the Fiat decided to go for it with a blind bend ahead - From that location I wouldn't even have done that in my car! Sure enough, a Saab appeared, but the Fiat because it had been following the artic so closely had completely failed to see that not only was there another truck ahead but there were two more cars sandwiched in the gap between trucks! The Fiat had nowhere to go and the Saab had to go over the white lined verge to avoid a head-on collision. At that moment I wished I was a Police car because I'm sure it would have been my duty to chase that Fiat driver down after this event. Needless to say, on the dual carriageway a mile further on I was doing no more than about 75 and that Fiat was hammering away into the distance much faster. What's the betting he didn't slow down enough for the 30 through the next village.
Remapping your brain (as well as your car) is something I'm often advising others to do.
Am I wrong in thinking that Don Palmer's courses are more track than road orientated?
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I totally agree with lots of whats said here!
On a basic level, since i have not mastered heel-toe myself, i tend to really try to think about the line in which i enter and exit the corner. In addition, one of the biggest things I think sets someone apart from more novice drivers is the amount someone brakes. Really if you're paying attention to the road you should be able to control the engine and car speed by changing down (as everyone knows) so that there isn't actually any need to brake before the corner itself, this allows full control through the corner and the ability to accelerate out of it afterwards. Obviously if your driving at silly speeds then your going to need to brake but anything upto 60 is usually controlled like this. Im sure we've all been stuck behind that annoying driver who travels about 47mph on a 60mph A-road, and brakes noticably at the slightest hint of a bend. Terribly frustrating!
So for anyone like me who can't do fancy heel-toe, thinking about speed, gear choice and corning line can make a huge impact on your journey. The only thing i sometimes find is it does take a lot more thought and concentration and so sometimes if i am feeling lazy or not in the mood ill be a little more 'relaxed' but its nice to know i have it in the locker as and when! Dunno if anyone else does this too! :smiley:
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Ahh.. overtaking…there is a bit of an art to it :)
Well advanced driving is about planning, and never more so when you’re talking about overtaking. A lot of drivers don’t actually position very well for an overtake and from the sounds of things, you were doing exactly the right thing. Holding back, opening the view up and making a decision if it was clear to go or not.
The correct advanced driving method for an overtake is as follows:
The overtaking postion should be entered into...which on a NSL road depends really on the speed of the vehicle in front....however, it's closer than a normal 'following position'...Then you need to move over the white lines and (if safe to do so)...sit in the opposite lane looking down the offside of the road and down the line of cars...
Here's the secret; DON'T ACCELERATE ..instead keep at the same speed as the car you are following....then if you see an oncoming vehicle in the distance....you can simply move back across onto your side of the road and your braking distance from the vehicle in front hasn't changed. When the oncoming car has passed by, repeat the action, back onto the opposite side of the road...for another look. Imagine it like water skiing....where the bloke on the skis never gains or drops back from the boat..the length of the road remains the same...
This will allow you a full view of the road ahead, the cars in the line and also for any other dangers; lay-bys, junctions etc and allow you to decide if the overtake is ON or OFF.
The associate problems with this are two fold. One...oncoming cars in the distance might assume that you're overtaking...(when you're not)....and the car that you were following might assume the same and slow down....
You have to be mindful of this and adapt accordingly.
Overtaking can be one of the most satisfying aspects of advanced driving, but at the same time has the potential to be the most dangerous. It's all about planning, anticipation and restraint....
Anyway, when you mentioned the Toyota Yaris, it did make me think about another comment Mr Palmer made about one of his courses. The particular course costs £1500 for two days so it isn’t cheap, but one of the guys I know who went on it stated the following:
With the course costing £1,500 plus VAT for the two days, you’d be forgiven for expecting to be able to drive some fairly fancy cars. So it is good that Don and Mark prepared us in advance for the fact that we would be driving a BMW 325i (E90) and a Toyota Avensis! Their rationale is simple – you want to be driving a car where it is easier to feel the response of the vehicle and tyres to a given input, and that means not having a fire breathing, ultra grippy monster! As it turned out, we pretty much all preferred driving the Avensis once we realised how much harder it was to master (the BMW was just so competent), proving Don and Mark entirely right! As I understand it, Rob Wilson, who trains a number of Formula 1 drivers at Bruntingthorpe, adopts the same philosophy and can generally be found tooling around in a VW Passat.
Interesting :)
You are also right that Don’s courses are more track than road orientated nowadays and there’s a reason for this. Don is a limit handling guru and as such, he cannot really teach or apply this on the road. His view is that is that, whereas 20 years ago you could get away with it, these days it’s socially unacceptable to do the sorts of speeds he’d need to do to achieve his goals. These days, modern cars have so much grip that you need to be going pretty damn quickly to actually get anything to happen…well in the dry anyway! Therefore his focus is on the track with the emphasis to improve a drivers “on the limit†ability. It’s all about car sympathy, feeling and the understanding of what the car is doing at the limit.
For me personally, I find it fascinating to learn about limit handling, but I combine this with decent road driver training which can be achieved through following the IAM, RoADA and HPC route. Technically speaking, the use of trial braking, heel and toe, etc don’t actually need to be used on the road because you rarely get the chance to utilise this level of performance. Especially with all the numpties that roam the roads lol!!
The IAM would never endorse the use of techniques such as Heel and Toe, but the feeling within the HPC seems to be that this is a very naïve view to take. A good road driver doesn’t make a good track driver and visa versa. However, I like to have “all the tools in the box†and for someone who has a real interest in cars and driving, that’s why I strive to learn it :grin:
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...The only thing i sometimes find is it does take a lot more thought and concentration and so sometimes if i am feeling lazy or not in the mood ill be a little more 'relaxed' but its nice to know i have it in the locker as and when! Dunno if anyone else does this too! :smiley:
It does take more concentration to start with, but if you do it all the time, it becomes second nature and you'll start to do it without thinking. When I first started my training, I'd get home totally knackered! Now, I don't feel tired at all. It's like anything, if you practice at it, it becomes second nature to you after a while.
Also, don't get me wrong, I'm not saying you should use Heel and Toe on the roads because like you quite rightly point out, preparing for a bend is more about getting the right speed and gear before getting to the corner. So many people I follow seem to be doing all of the work right on the bend, leaving it to the last minute. When I get to a bend all I want to do is steer! Heel and Toe is useful if you get it a bit late and need to break and gear change. Again it's a useful tool to have in the box.
When you next go out and drive, try this:
- Get yourself set up for the bend (you're technique sounds spot on), in terms of speed and gear.
- When you're on the bend, apply a tiny amount of throttle. Not so that you're on the power and pulling out of the corner, but just a touch so that you're still applying a bit of gas.
What will happen is that the car will all of a sudden feel planted. There will be less roll and lean in the car and you'll feel as if you're cornering really flat. :afro:
I also know that following the types of drivers who brake on every corner or when another car passes them (I had one of those the other day) can be really annoying, but you've got to tell yourself that they probably haven't had any other form of instruction or tried to learn about improving their driving since they passed their test.
I generally hold back from them, wait for the right moment and just bimble past them. I've had people flash me in the past as I've trundled by, probably because they don't like being overtaken or because they think it's dangerous. Problem is, they're just not looking ahead. If you can catch a good cross view on a road and you know it's clear, it's very easy to overtake and you don't even need a fast car to do it. Like I said before, it's the drivers whose vision ends at the end of their bonnets who are the real dangers on the road!
Finally I always drive with my lights on. I find that people are more aware when they see be coming up behind them and this normally works in my advantage because once they know I'm there, they don't get a surprise when I nip past them :)
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...The only thing i sometimes find is it does take a lot more thought and concentration and so sometimes if i am feeling lazy or not in the mood ill be a little more 'relaxed' but its nice to know i have it in the locker as and when! Dunno if anyone else does this too! :smiley:
It does take more concentration to start with, but if you do it all the time, it becomes second nature and you'll start to do it without thinking. When I first started my training, I'd get home totally knackered! Now, I don't feel tired at all. It's like anything, if you practice at it, it becomes second nature to you after a while.
Also, don't get me wrong, I'm not saying you should use Heel and Toe on the roads because like you quite rightly point out, preparing for a bend is more about getting the right speed and gear before getting to the corner. So many people I follow seem to be doing all of the work right on the bend, leaving it to the last minute. When I get to a bend all I want to do is steer! Heel and Toe is useful if you get it a bit late and need to break and gear change. Again it's a useful tool to have in the box.
When you next go out and drive, try this:
- Get yourself set up for the bend (you're technique sounds spot on), in terms of speed and gear.
- When you're on the bend, apply a tiny amount of throttle. Not so that you're on the power and pulling out of the corner, but just a touch so that you're still applying a bit of gas.
What will happen is that the car will all of a sudden feel planted. There will be less roll and lean in the car and you'll feel as if you're cornering really flat. :afro:
I also know that following the types of drivers who brake on every corner or when another car passes them (I had one of those the other day) can be really annoying, but you've got to tell yourself that they probably haven't had any other form of instruction or tried to learn about improving their driving since they passed their test.
I generally hold back from them, wait for the right moment and just bimble past them. I've had people flash me in the past as I've trundled by, probably because they don't like being overtaken or because they think it's dangerous. Problem is, they're just not looking ahead. If you can catch a good cross view on a road and you know it's clear, it's very easy to overtake and you don't even need a fast car to do it. Like I said before, it's the drivers whose vision ends at the end of their bonnets who are the real dangers on the road!
Finally I always drive with my lights on. I find that people are more aware when they see be coming up behind them and this normally works in my advantage because once they know I'm there, they don't get a surprise when I nip past them :)
Yeh totally! Thing is i will wait until my GTI arrives, since I use my mums mk4 1.4 and it understeers more than anything and has about 15hp so it makes little difference trying to drive like that all the time since the car isn't really capable. But in a couple of weeks when iv actually got a car that is up for it i intend to be doing lots and lots of practice! :smiley:
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The correct advanced driving method for an overtake is as follows:
The overtaking postion should be entered into...which on a NSL road depends really on the speed of the vehicle in front....however, it's closer than a normal 'following position'...Then you need to move over the white lines and (if safe to do so)...sit in the opposite lane looking down the offside of the road and down the line of cars...
Here's the secret; DON'T ACCELERATE ..instead keep at the same speed as the car you are following....then if you see an oncoming vehicle in the distance....you can simply move back across onto your side of the road and your braking distance from the vehicle in front hasn't changed. When the oncoming car has passed by, repeat the action, back onto the opposite side of the road...for another look. Imagine it like water skiing....where the bloke on the skis never gains or drops back from the boat..the length of the road remains the same...
This will allow you a full view of the road ahead, the cars in the line and also for any other dangers; lay-bys, junctions etc and allow you to decide if the overtake is ON or OFF.
The associate problems with this are two fold. One...oncoming cars in the distance might assume that you're overtaking...(when you're not)....and the car that you were following might assume the same and slow down....
You have to be mindful of this and adapt accordingly.
....That's exactly what I've been taught to do (when safe and practical). I have noticed that most drivers behind me usually drop waaaay back when I cruise in the opposite lane to have a better look before making a decision. It's almost as if they are expecting to see a major head-on incident!!
Having my aftermarket SatNav display in the upper DIN is also useful for extra info about side roads ahead. Many drivers restrict themselves to only checking out their side of the road and not the whole road environment, especially when exiting laybys.
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Finally I always drive with my lights on. I find that people are more aware when they see be coming up behind them and this normally works in my advantage because once they know I'm there, they don't get a surprise when I nip past them :)
....Ah!! You won't believe the amount of flak I've had on another car forum (a bit too 'grown-up') about my LED Daylight Running Lights!! I discovered how they contributed to awareness while travelling at +100mph speeds on the German autobahns with faster Audi RS6 Avants etc bearing down on me at much higher speeds.
Hella Germany helped me out and I've substituted them for my fogs according to Euro rulings, so they are automatically on with the ignition, and off when other lights are switched on. Every bit helps!
(http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b308/RedRobin_05/RED_DRLsPortchester.jpg)
^I'm the passenger in this pic!
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supreme thread guys :cool:
may I also interject that reducing engine movement (ECS dog bone mount) and other factors may also improve feel/speed.
I have always felt that the excessive engine movement (imho) and long gear lever movement contributes vastly to a poor change.
John
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They look great Red :afro: :grin:
It's surprising the difference it makes when you have your lights on isn't it! My Elise is black and being so low, most drivers just don't see me. That's why I always pop my lights on now because then they don't get a shock when I nip past.
The people giving you flack for the driving lights obviously don't see them as a safety feature but more as another mod. Not only are they a good idea though, but they do look the business!! :afro:
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supreme thread guys :cool:
may I also interject that reducing engine movement (ECS dog bone mount) and other factors may also improve feel/speed.
I have always felt that the excessive engine movement (imho) and long gear lever movement contributes vastly to a poor change.
John
Absolutely agree :D
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RR I like those running lights. Is there a link you could reply with that would point me in a similar direction!
Also, I too like to drive with lights on, having chosen Xenons this will improve my visibility to others no end. Do you ever get the Police stopping you about your running lights thinking that your fogs are on? How do you prove the difference?
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RR I like those running lights. Is there a link you could reply with that would point me in a similar direction!
Also, I too like to drive with lights on, having chosen Xenons this will improve my visibility to others no end. Do you ever get the Police stopping you about your running lights thinking that your fogs are on? How do you prove the difference?
....I'll see if I can find it (if it wasn't lost in the 'Great Tempest' which befell the forum) and start a new thread rather than hijack this one. Actually what I'll do (easier for me) is post a new Review on my home site (Biali Motorsport) but open a thread here for discussion so that I'm not taking people away from here but just having my review as an external reference link as I did with the paddleshift extensions and new Scirocco test drive.
Incidentally, I have already posted a link and encouraging words on Biali for visitors to check out this GolfGTI.co.uk site.
:afro:
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Excellent, ill look out for said thread! Thanks!
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- When you're on the bend, apply a tiny amount of throttle. Not so that you're on the power and pulling out of the corner, but just a touch so that you're still applying a bit of gas.
I used to notice something similar in my fiesta, mainly at large roundabouts where my exit was past the 12 o'clock mark. If I had too much gas, the car felt more like it was gonna tip over.
Does anyone have info on what rpms the DSG shifts gears at? Is it the same each time eg 5000rpm? Or is it different depending on gear? Coz that'd help with optimising gear changes.
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This thread is getting very interesting - wonder if we should have a dedicated Driving Technique section :huh:
Cass
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Thanks Cass :afro: From your posts I can see that you've had training yourself. What sort of things have you done so far?
Chris - My Advanced Driver Training was a 4 week Police course, hammering around the North of England and Scotland. Never thought I would have done 153mph legally on the M74 southbound in a Volvo S70 and feel completely in control :smug: At that speed things do happen fast though and you need to be seriously alert to other road users :shocked:
The only track driving/tuition I've done was in 2002 at Knockhill circuit in Scotland when my local OPC invited me to a Porsche Boxster track day. Did the job though as I went and bought one :laugh: I enjoyed the experience immensely and my only criticism was to lose the 'ten-to-two' steering wheel grip :rolleyes: Ath the end of the day, my (professional) instructor gave me a few laps demo as to how it should be done - it was awesome. The harder he pushed it, the better planted the car was and his times were far, far superior to mine.
Good driving is a skill which everyone should aspire to, and like any skill, it needs to be practiced daily. I have found recently that the missus acts like a speed camera and she keeps a watchful eye on the speedo, but then I'm retired and she's still working :laugh:
Cass
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This thread is getting very interesting - wonder if we should have a dedicated Driving Technique section :huh:
Cass
Gets my vote!
There is a lot more to talk about as well and you can get quite technical with it. Understanding slip angles, using "hinting" to set the tyres up before a bend, left foot braking, managing weight distribution, steering, correcting oversteer, etc. Also in terms of road driving, limit point analysis, reading bends, using off-siding to open the view up....there's a lot!
...The harder he pushed it, the better planted the car was and his times were far, far superior to mine.
This is exactly what I was talking about earlier about weight distribution and balance. At lower speeds you'll not notice it but at higher speeds, if you correctly set the car up and balance the weight shift in the corners, it feels solid and planted!
Totally aside and a point to finish on, I'll give you this little insight.
Two identical cars travelling along at speed. The first car is travelling at 100mph and the second car at 70mph. They both hit their brakes at the same time!
When the second car (that was travelling at 70mph) stops, what speed do you think the car doing 100mph will be doing?
I'll leave that with you, but you'll be surprised I think :) Remember they are identical cars, so the brakes, etc are all the same!
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This thread is getting very interesting - wonder if we should have a dedicated Driving Technique section :huh:
Cass
Gets my vote!
There is a lot more to talk about as well and you can get quite technical with it. Understanding slip angles, using "hinting" to set the tyres up before a bend, left foot braking, managing weight distribution, steering, correcting oversteer, etc. Also in terms of road driving, limit point analysis, reading bends, using off-siding to open the view up....there's a lot!
...The harder he pushed it, the better planted the car was and his times were far, far superior to mine.
This is exactly what I was talking about earlier about weight distribution and balance. At lower speeds you'll not notice it but at higher speeds, if you correctly set the car up and balance the weight shift in the corners, it feels solid and planted!
Totally aside and a point to finish on, I'll give you this little insight.
Two identical cars travelling along at speed. The first car is travelling at 100mph and the second car at 70mph. They both hit their brakes at the same time!
When the second car (that was travelling at 70mph) stops, what speed do you think the car doing 100mph will be doing?
I'll leave that with you, but you'll be surprised I think :) Remember they are identical cars, so the brakes, etc are all the same!
I would say 40mph!
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51mph :nerd:
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The answer is actually 73mph! It's all to do with physics but when someone told this to me, I was pretty shocked!