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Model specific boards => Golf mk5 => Topic started by: jt1 on 30 August 2008, 20:11

Title: Help please, new rims and esp playing up.
Post by: jt1 on 30 August 2008, 20:11
As it says in the title really, yesterday i fitted a set of merc rims 8x18 fronts 9x18 rears, since fitting them the esp has kicked in a couple of times for no reason at all just randomly in normal driving conditions, not even accelerating hard, help please,anyone got any ideas?

Cheers

John
Title: Re: Help please, new rims and esp playing up.
Post by: Saint Steve on 30 August 2008, 20:17
different size wheels front and rear??? surely isnt that the cause??
Title: Re: Help please, new rims and esp playing up.
Post by: SteveP on 30 August 2008, 20:29
different size wheels front and rear??? surely isnt that the cause??

I agree, a few years ago I ended up with different size tyres on a MK1 Leon Cupra, 205/45/17's on the front and 225/45/17's on the rear due to some crazy lease company cock-up, and even with this scenario I had the ESP kick-in randomly a few times before they changed the front tyres too.
Title: Re: Help please, new rims and esp playing up.
Post by: Hurdy on 30 August 2008, 20:34
Different size rims shouldn't matter as the rolling circumference would be the same with the same profile tyres. Even if you did put different tyres on and the rolling circumference was slightly different I doubt if it would be enough to bring in the esp. It could be possible that the fitters may have inadvertantly caught one of the ABS sensors. :undecided:
Title: Re: Help please, new rims and esp playing up.
Post by: Hurdy on 30 August 2008, 20:37
different size wheels front and rear??? surely isnt that the cause??

I agree, a few years ago I ended up with different size tyres on a MK1 Leon Cupra, 205/45/17's on the front and 225/45/17's on the rear due to some crazy lease company cock-up, and even with this scenario I had the ESP kick-in randomly a few times before they changed the front tyres too.

Now that would cause esp to come in!

ps. are the profiles the same?

Title: Re: Help please, new rims and esp playing up.
Post by: jt1 on 30 August 2008, 21:35
Cheers for the quick replys guys, i dont think it can be down to the staggered width as most manufacturers do this as standard on some of their performance cars.

The tyres are 215/35/18 fronts 225/40/18 rears so did'nt think that would be a problem.

Cheers
Title: Re: Help please, new rims and esp playing up.
Post by: Top Cat on 30 August 2008, 21:59
Cheers for the quick replys guys, i dont think it can be down to the staggered width as most manufacturers do this as standard on some of their performance cars.

The tyres are 215/35/18 fronts 225/40/18 rears so did'nt think that would be a problem.

Cheers

Can you post some piccies please of your new rimmage  :tongue:
Title: Re: Help please, new rims and esp playing up.
Post by: jt1 on 30 August 2008, 22:49
Cheers for the quick replys guys, i dont think it can be down to the staggered width as most manufacturers do this as standard on some of their performance cars.

The tyres are 215/35/18 fronts 225/40/18 rears so did'nt think that would be a problem.

Cheers

Can you post some piccies please of your new rimmage  :tongue:



Will do in the morning not had time to take any yet :wink:
Title: Re: Help please, new rims and esp playing up.
Post by: Hurdy on 31 August 2008, 01:09
Now I see your problem.

The rolling circumference of the wheels needs to be the same front to rear, but yours aren't.

The fronts are 215/35 and the rears 225/40 which means the fronts will rotate faster than the rears. If the difference is out of normal operating parameters, then the ESP will cut in as it will think that either your front wheels are spinning up or that your rears are skidding.

The rears are the correct section tyres for the car. :nerd:
Title: Re: Help please, new rims and esp playing up.
Post by: Spaced on 31 August 2008, 07:58
By my calculations (I could be wrong) the overall wheel and tyre diameter means the rears are 1.475 cm bigger than the fronts. I would have thought that this would also cause the tyre pressure warning light to come on as well.
Title: Re: Help please, new rims and esp playing up.
Post by: jt1 on 31 August 2008, 11:26
Now I see your problem.

The rolling circumference of the wheels needs to be the same front to rear, but yours aren't.

The fronts are 215/35 and the rears 225/40 which means the fronts will rotate faster than the rears. If the difference is out of normal operating parameters, then the ESP will cut in as it will think that either your front wheels are spinning up or that your rears are skidding.

The rears are the correct section tyres for the car. :nerd:

Cheers mate, the strange thing is they have come straight off another mkv onto mine, i have spoken to him since and he say's he never had a problem, i'll sort out some new rubber for them this week and hope this does solve the problem.

Thanks for your help.

John
Title: Re: Help please, new rims and esp playing up.
Post by: Hurdy on 31 August 2008, 11:45
By my calculations (I could be wrong) the overall wheel and tyre diameter means the rears are 1.475 cm bigger than the fronts. I would have thought that this would also cause the tyre pressure warning light to come on as well.

This would depend on how and if you have set the tyre pressure warning. You can set the warning at any time and it then uses this setting as a reference. If it changes from the setting, this is when the warning comes on. If John (JT1) reset his TPW when he changed the rims, he wouldn't get the TPW coming on. :smiley:
Title: Re: Help please, new rims and esp playing up.
Post by: jt1 on 31 August 2008, 11:49
By my calculations (I could be wrong) the overall wheel and tyre diameter means the rears are 1.475 cm bigger than the fronts. I would have thought that this would also cause the tyre pressure warning light to come on as well.

This would depend on how and if you have set the tyre pressure warning. You can set the warning at any time and it then uses this setting as a reference. If it changes from the setting, this is when the warning comes on. If John (JT1) reset his TPW when he changed the rims, he wouldn't get the TPW coming on. :smiley:

TPW did'nt even come on.
Title: Re: Help please, new rims and esp playing up.
Post by: Hurdy on 31 August 2008, 11:51
By my calculations (I could be wrong) the overall wheel and tyre diameter means the rears are 1.475 cm bigger than the fronts. I would have thought that this would also cause the tyre pressure warning light to come on as well.

This would depend on how and if you have set the tyre pressure warning. You can set the warning at any time and it then uses this setting as a reference. If it changes from the setting, this is when the warning comes on. If John (JT1) reset his TPW when he changed the rims, he wouldn't get the TPW coming on. :smiley:

TPW did'nt even come on.

Have you EVER reset the TPW?
Title: Re: Help please, new rims and esp playing up.
Post by: jt1 on 31 August 2008, 14:39
No didn't think i would need to.
Title: Re: Help please, new rims and esp playing up.
Post by: RedRobin on 31 August 2008, 18:04
....When you consider that even the differences in tyre flexibility/construction between Directional and Assymetrics can set off the ESP, it's no wonder.

Hurdy - Are the ABS sensors located in a vulnerable postion under the car?
Title: Re: Help please, new rims and esp playing up.
Post by: Hurdy on 31 August 2008, 20:03
Not particularly, but I've seen a few posts in the past where they have been damaged
Title: Re: Help please, new rims and esp playing up.
Post by: Teutonic_Tamer on 01 September 2008, 16:31
different size wheels front and rear??? surely isnt that the cause??

Highly likely, especially if the tyre sizes are different, and/or the offsets are different.
Title: Re: Help please, new rims and esp playing up.
Post by: Teutonic_Tamer on 01 September 2008, 16:37
Different size rims shouldn't matter as the rolling circumference would be the same with the same profile tyres.

But if the offsets are different, then when cornering, the yaw sensor will detect the differing slip angles from the wheel/tyre combo, and will be different to the required steering angle as determined by the ESP map - so it can make a difference

Even if you did put different tyres on and the rolling circumference was slightly different I doubt if it would be enough to bring in the esp.

If it was just differences in rolling curcumference, then the traction control part of the ESP would kick in during acceleration.  Also, the Tyre Pressure Monitoring System would ping up and alert (thats how it works on the Golf).

It could be possible that the fitters may have inadvertantly caught one of the ABS sensors. :undecided:

But if they did that, then the ABS and ESP lights would be permanently lit on the dash!
Title: Re: Help please, new rims and esp playing up.
Post by: Teutonic_Tamer on 01 September 2008, 16:42
Cheers for the quick replys guys, i dont think it can be down to the staggered width as most manufacturers do this as standard on some of their performance cars.

Erm . . . but then the manufacturer would specifically programme the ESP to cope with the differing widths.  The ESP is a complicated, and very sensative piece of automotive technology, and unfortuately, unlike engine ECUs, an ESP map can not be changed!

The tyres are 215/35/18 fronts 225/40/18 rears so did'nt think that would be a problem.

Erm . . . different size tyres will definately cause the ESP to kick in.

Unless you have a car which is/was factory designed to run offsets - and the Golf categorically was not, you shouldn't be using offsets or differing tyre sizes.
Title: Re: Help please, new rims and esp playing up.
Post by: Teutonic_Tamer on 01 September 2008, 16:48
....When you consider that even the differences in tyre flexibility/construction between Directional and Assymetrics can set off the ESP, it's no wonder.

Ahh, but it is only Goodyear who suffer with this problem!  Dunlop, or Continental, or Michelin or Pirelli don't have any such problems!  :rolleyes:

Hurdy - Are the ABS sensors located in a vulnerable postion under the car?

As Hurdy states, the sensors themselves are not in a vulnerable postition, but the wiring is - particularly for the front wheels.

But if the sensors or the wiring was damaged in any way, then the ABS and ESP warning light would be on all the while in the dash.  And then you'd have pretty dangerous brakes!  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Help please, new rims and esp playing up.
Post by: The Wheel Man on 01 September 2008, 17:34
Sound like the wheels / tyres supplied are definatly causing the problem your experiencing.  Just out of interest, what Mercedes were these wheels off?  I cant thi9nk od a Mecedes that would have an 18x8 & 18x9 with offsets that would suit the MKV.  Just having a look through the WTDR (trade wheel and tyre book) and i cant see that combo????  Any pics  :smiley:
Title: Re: Help please, new rims and esp playing up.
Post by: jt1 on 04 September 2008, 21:49
Sound like the wheels / tyres supplied are definatly causing the problem your experiencing.  Just out of interest, what Mercedes were these wheels off?  I cant thi9nk od a Mecedes that would have an 18x8 & 18x9 with offsets that would suit the MKV.  Just having a look through the WTDR (trade wheel and tyre book) and i cant see that combo????  Any pics  :smiley:
Hi the wheels are segins,and there going back to their original owner this weekend. Cheers
Title: Re: Help please, new rims and esp playing up.
Post by: indublin on 05 September 2008, 17:47
Different size rims shouldn't matter as the rolling circumference would be the same with the same profile tyres. Even if you did put different tyres on and the rolling circumference was slightly different I doubt if it would be enough to bring in the esp. It could be possible that the fitters may have inadvertantly caught one of the ABS sensors. :undecided:

I seem to remember reading somewhere that the ESP can be re set... Begger I should read the whole post before hittin' the reply button, sorrrry!
Title: Re: Help please, new rims and esp playing up.
Post by: Teutonic_Tamer on 05 September 2008, 19:30
Different size rims shouldn't matter as the rolling circumference would be the same with the same profile tyres. Even if you did put different tyres on and the rolling circumference was slightly different I doubt if it would be enough to bring in the esp. It could be possible that the fitters may have inadvertantly caught one of the ABS sensors. :undecided:

I seem to remember reading somewhere that the ESP can be re set

Sort of.  Every time you start moving after starting the engine, the ABS/ESP carries out its own self-test function - usually at around 6mph, and with the steering wheel in the straight ahead position.  The driver, nor the stealer, can either "re-set" the ESP, nor alter the ESP "map".
Title: Re: Help please, new rims and esp playing up.
Post by: RedRobin on 05 September 2008, 20:26
The driver, nor the stealer, can either "re-set" the ESP, nor alter the ESP "map".

....I'm pretty sure you meant to write "neither" rather than "either". :afro:
Title: Re: Help please, new rims and esp playing up.
Post by: sixpot on 05 September 2008, 20:30
Sound like the wheels / tyres supplied are definatly causing the problem your experiencing.  Just out of interest, what Mercedes were these wheels off?  I cant thi9nk od a Mecedes that would have an 18x8 & 18x9 with offsets that would suit the MKV.  Just having a look through the WTDR (trade wheel and tyre book) and i cant see that combo????  Any pics  :smiley:
Hi the wheels are segins,and there going back to their original owner this weekend. Cheers
Whats happened John? have you changed your mind?
Title: Re: Help please, new rims and esp playing up.
Post by: sixpot on 05 September 2008, 20:58
Sound like the wheels / tyres supplied are definatly causing the problem your experiencing.  Just out of interest, what Mercedes were these wheels off?  I cant thi9nk od a Mecedes that would have an 18x8 & 18x9 with offsets that would suit the MKV.  Just having a look through the WTDR (trade wheel and tyre book) and i cant see that combo????  Any pics  :smiley:

These were normally a 17" rim fitted to the W220 S600 and CL600 class Merc, they are forged, so are very light and strong. the 18" rims fitted to Johns car are rarer still, and the rears are 9" wide which are even harder to find.