GolfGTIforum.co.uk
Model specific boards => Golf mk5 => Topic started by: 08micsta on 20 August 2008, 09:41
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Hello Guys
As of late the GTi has once again become the family car as fuel prices are just plain horrid and the 4x4 is clocking up too much mileage. Naturally this makes my dad a happy man as he loves the GTi and to be rather honest (This is the odd part) my mom has taken a major liking to our new Opel Corsa Utility Bakkie (Its full house and absolutely stunning) and prefers it over her GTi for trips to the shops etc so the Gti is now redundant in the garage and never used.
My dad and I decided to take the GTi for a blast last weekend whilst discussing school and the odds and soon started discussing my first car etc. As I joke i mentioned that the GTi would be nice :evil: and my dad made the following comment which after numerous internet searches I cant find the answer for.
My dad stated that the reason he is hesitant about letting me drive the GTI (When I do get my license) is because I will abuse it. :rolleyes: And as an example he stated that:
I will come into a corner faster than the car can handle (being overconfident thinking that the computers and ESP etc will rescue me) and will obviously not apply the accelerater in the corner... This means the car will skid out and then there is an accident. HE then continued to state that the ESP only works when you are accelerating and for that reason many people go to fast and because they are not accelerating dont have ESP to help and the car loses traction etc etc.
Is this true?
Or is the ESP working even when decelerating and cornering with no acceleration? Im curious because that would mean that to go faster in a corner you should enter slower and accelerate in the actual corner because the ESP will give you extra traction allowing you to exit quicker?
I did all the license courses on Gran Turismo etc and even looked on the net and many licenses state you should enter quickly, accelerate gently in the corner and exit quickly?
I then read Phils post about his car and figured the following: (This assuming my dads theory is correct)
Phil enters a corner faster than normal and does not accelerate in the corner and when he accelerates on exit the car gets bogged down because it is suddenly having to handle a corner and harsh acceleration? Perhaps thats the reason for his "lack of power" as that is what ESP is meant to do. Change the speed on alternating wheels to correct a spin or slide and allow traction.
He mentioned that he didnt have this on his old GTi. Perhaps the ESP handles the different turbo (KO3 to KO4 in the Ed30 if I am not mistaken) differently and they put the power out in different ways? Maybe there is no delay in the KO3 with the standard GTi and a slightly longer delay in power output or the way the power is transmited in the KO4? Just a thought.
As for MPG... :laugh: We get about ten MPG in town with ours and fill her up once a week so stop complaining and this is with my mom driving :grin:
Feel free to discuss.
Mike
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This is not true no. Ive put this into practice myself.
When ive had ESP on during a track session, the ESP has pulled the rear of the car back into line when taking a slippery corner several times. i then turned the ESP off, and took the corner again. This time I spun the car!
I was not accelrating on the corners.
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You can frequently get ESP to kick in through initiating lift-off oversteer - therefore making it come on with no throttle...
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Ive attacted corners at speed onto dual carrageways etc, the car with esp on, power drops off, and car then learches like it feels like i have a flat tyre at the rear. Scared the life outa me more then if id turned it off, id feel like im in control.
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Slow in fast out is the way I have heard it. Brake wellbefore the corner start accelerating through the corner smoothly. Same with speed humps.. go in normal speed, brake just prior to the speed hump then foot off the brake and coast or even accelerate over.
Every corner has its own peculiarities ie off camber, not a perfect arc etc, but this works for me.
Don't forget you have EBD on your GTI so if the system feels that a wheel is skidding then it will brake on the others slightly until it gains traction again.
In regards to ESPI have always heard it is on to some degree regardless of whether you turn it off .. this may be wrong.
Tell your dad to get it chipped and only let you have it in Valet mode.. that way he gets the benefit of the extra power and still keeps you on the straight and narrow!
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Slow in fast out is the way I have heard it. Brake wellbefore the corner start accelerating through the corner smoothly.
Yes - as per my previous post, inducing lift off oversteer isn't really the correct and best way to get round a corner (although very good fun), but just to highlight that ESP does indeed work off throttle!
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I believe old fashioned straight forward traction control (ASR) detects wheelspin and only works by retarding engine power so your dads statement would be correct for that since if you're not accelerating there is no benefit but ESP is ASR, EBD, EDL and heap of other 3 letter acronyms rolled into one that detects more than just wheelspin alone and can selectively apply the brakes where necessary as well as retarding the engine power.
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So my dad is wrong. :grin:
Not that I will be able to drive the Golf anyway :cry:
Exactly what does the GTI have? And what do the acronyms stand for?
I remember doing a track day with BMW a few years ago in which they compared their systems to Nissen 350Z's and BMW was using the Z4.
The guy took you into a corner with ESP and ASC (Automatic stability control) and something else and showed how well the car could handle a few very dramatic swerves, handbrake turns and wet roads. They then showed you the button and told you to switch it off and from there onwards the car was all over the place sliding, veering on the edge and everything.
The 350Z (being rear wheel drive I think) was a lot more dramatic and BMW stated the reason there system was better was because of the ASC and that something else that I cant remember.
I love telling stories.
So what exactly does the golf have? OR what is included in the ESP package?
Mike
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Exactly what does the GTI have? And what do the acronyms stand for?
I noticed the other week that you told a newbie to do a search first when he asked what to look for when purchasing a GTI. Whilst, you are indeed correct - and I even admit there is a sticky in this section telling people what to look out for when purchasing GTI - it probably made that newbie feel quite inadequate and unwelcome (I only say this because it would have made me feel that way, and I think it's very important to welcome new members into an online community such as this, which sometimes can be pretty daunting)
In light of the above...it would have been rather easy for you to do a search on the VW website to find out the answers to your question? http://www.volkswagen.co.uk/#/new/golf-gti/explore/experience/safety/ :wink:
At the end of the day, I appreciate that sometimes it's a lot easier to simply ask the question rather than do a bit of searching/research (and you will probably get the answer more quickly), but I just felt that on this occasion you are eating your own words a little ...
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....The golden rule is ALWAYS slow in and fast out of bends/roundabouts etc. You should do all your braking while the car is still in a straight line (and more stable) before entering the bend and know your point at which to accelerate out.
I too have spun my GTI with ESP off and found myself running backwards until braking. No damage but I am inclined to keep my ESP on and stay within the car's limitations. ESP doesn't stop an incident happening but it can reduce its possibility. I think there's too much macho testosterone involved with drivers saying that you don't need ESP and its package of safeguards.
Fast driving is all about keeping it smooth and stable. Think and read the road ahead.
My 17yo daughter is learning to drive and loving it! But not on my GTI!! I wouldn't let her drive mine before some professional courses in advanced training.
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Exactly what does the GTI have? And what do the acronyms stand for?
I noticed the other week that you told a newbie to do a search first when he asked what to look for when purchasing a GTI. Whilst, you are indeed correct - and I even admit there is a sticky in this section telling people what to look out for when purchasing GTI - it probably made that newbie feel quite inadequate and unwelcome (I only say this because it would have made me feel that way, and I think it's very important to welcome new members into an online community such as this, which sometimes can be pretty daunting)
In light of the above...it would have been rather easy for you to do a search on the VW website to find out the answers to your question? http://www.volkswagen.co.uk/#/new/golf-gti/explore/experience/safety/ :wink:
At the end of the day, I appreciate that sometimes it's a lot easier to simply ask the question rather than do a bit of searching/research (and you will probably get the answer more quickly), but I just felt that on this occasion you are eating your own words a little ...
.... :laugh: You're quite right but the young are invariably more impatient.
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Hello WhiteGTI
Before I continue I would like to point out that I have been on this forum since last year if not a year before that as I was a member here 6 months before our GTi was even delivered. I have seen threads and know a little something about the GTi.
I have gone on numerous websites inculding UKMK5s. VWVortex and the VW website for South Africa many times. Please notice that the website you posted is the UK based website which I have had no need to access as I am from South Africa.
With regards to eating my own words I have to disagree. What would the point be in searching for the answers myself when this topic/thread is already dedicated to the topic of ESP and what it involves. Why answer the question myself when there are others that might want the answers too? There is also the possibility that well known and informative people like TT may want to comment.
I understand your concern for newbies and their questions. I really do. But as you may not have noticed... When I made my statement about using the search function there were at least four seperate posts about the exact same thing. The point I was trying to make was that it is not needed to start a seperate thread when there is already four of them. It was not my intention to make any user or newbie feel inadequate but merely to state the obvious.
Thanks for the link. Very useful.
Mike :smiley:
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Exactly what does the GTI have? And what do the acronyms stand for?
I noticed the other week that you told a newbie to do a search first when he asked what to look for when purchasing a GTI. Whilst, you are indeed correct - and I even admit there is a sticky in this section telling people what to look out for when purchasing GTI - it probably made that newbie feel quite inadequate and unwelcome (I only say this because it would have made me feel that way, and I think it's very important to welcome new members into an online community such as this, which sometimes can be pretty daunting)
At the end of the day, I appreciate that sometimes it's a lot easier to simply ask the question rather than do a bit of searching/research (and you will probably get the answer more quickly), but I just felt that on this occasion you are eating your own words a little ...
yeh, i agree Chris! (end?) ha
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....I don't think that WhiteGTI meant anything unfriendly, Mike 08micsta. You're certainly a mature and appreciated member of this forum. :cool:
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Thanks Red.
I understand him not meaning offence and no offence was taken. Was simply pointing out why I made those comments to the newbies.
WhiteGTi. The link you posted gave a simple outlay of what the safety feautures the car has. But you gave me an idea and instead of having Google set on "Pages from South Africa only" I will take a look on the net for trhe acronyms as nothing comes up when I search.
Mike :smiley:
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I got to say the car really comes alive with the esp off. Having heard a few comments on here that it should never be switched off, I originally decided I had been stay away from the "button". Then daring to turn it off a few times in the dry.... I have never looked back!! The car is a different animal!!
You have to experience driving your car without the interference of the ESP. To do this you dont have to push your car to the limit. Simply driving it as you do everyday, occasionally switching it off when there is nobody about and the road opens up a little is a good way to get to do this. Push it too far and we all know what will happen.... but dont be scared of pushing the "button!!!".
Anyway if I told you all to not push the button, then you probably all would do anyway.. so I have probably saved a few hides anyway :wink:
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I have experienced so many instances when the ESP is working in the background and the light doesn't even flash to signify!
Try accelerating hard in first gear, and changing into second. If your gearchange is fast and admittedly not smooth with the clutch, the power just doesn't come, and it feels like a 1.2 accelerating! But no ESP light flashing as per normal. If you try this with ESP off, then the car just rockets!! With no wheelspin inbetween changes either - therefore asking the question why ESP felt the need to come on in the first place!
I also find that the car feels so much more eager to turn into corners with ESP off. It definitely feels like a completely different car - in a good way :smiley: :smiley: :smiley:
Don't get me wrong, I am not promoting constant ESP-off driving, however as R32UK said if the road conditions allow it, then turn it off just for a couple of minutes and just give it a try - you can always turn it back on again!
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I have experienced so many instances when the ESP is working in the background and the light doesn't even flash to signify!
Try accelerating hard in first gear, and changing into second. If your gearchange is fast and admittedly not smooth with the clutch, the power just doesn't come, and it feels like a 1.2 accelerating! But no ESP light flashing as per normal. If you try this with ESP off, then the car just rockets!! With no wheelspin inbetween changes either - therefore asking the question why ESP felt the need to come on in the first place!
I also find that the car feels so much more eager to turn into corners with ESP off. It definitely feels like a completely different car - in a good way :smiley: :smiley: :smiley:
Don't get me wrong, I am not promoting constant ESP-off driving, however as R32UK said if the road conditions allow it, then turn it off just for a couple of minutes and just give it a try - you can always turn it back on again!
....You make a very good point and one I can't argue against. I think that my main concern is switching it off and thinking the conditions are appropriately safe but to then be caught out unawares with it off - A tractor suddenly appearing from a side gate on a B-road for example - quite common in my neck of the woods!
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I have experienced so many instances when the ESP is working in the background and the light doesn't even flash to signify!
Try accelerating hard in first gear, and changing into second. If your gearchange is fast and admittedly not smooth with the clutch, the power just doesn't come, and it feels like a 1.2 accelerating! But no ESP light flashing as per normal. If you try this with ESP off, then the car just rockets!! With no wheelspin inbetween changes either - therefore asking the question why ESP felt the need to come on in the first place!
I also find that the car feels so much more eager to turn into corners with ESP off. It definitely feels like a completely different car - in a good way :smiley: :smiley: :smiley:
Don't get me wrong, I am not promoting constant ESP-off driving, however as R32UK said if the road conditions allow it, then turn it off just for a couple of minutes and just give it a try - you can always turn it back on again!
....You make a very good point and one I can't argue against. I think that my main concern is switching it off and thinking the conditions are appropriately safe but to then be caught out unawares with it off - A tractor suddenly appearing from a side gate on a B-road for example - quite common in my neck of the woods!
Indeed, it could turn out to be a big risk. I tend to turn it off on the bigger, wider dual carrigeways that I know like the back of my hand - the types that are split with curves and roundabouts, so it gives you the chance to accelerate out of corners / out of roundabouts without the ESP kicking in. That's not to say I haven't turned it off on a B road, but I guess I've been lucky in terms of hidden suprises around the corner.
Though, isn't it still on even when you've switched the button off? Numerous people on here have made that comment, in which case, if an emergency did occur, and you had to e.g. do an emergency stop whilst turning you would get the full benefits of ESP in the "on" mode?
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Though, isn't it still on even when you've switched the button off? Numerous people on here have made that comment, in which case, if an emergency did occur, and you had to e.g. do an emergency stop whilst turning you would get the full benefits of the Engine Brake Control, ABS, Hydraulic Brake Assist and the ESP?
....^I think this really is the key question - We need a definitive answer so we know exactly what's going on. I'm up at VW Racing next week (is everyone getting bored of me saying this yet?) and they are people who may well be able to give me some answers if no-one else can.
Exactly what are we switching off and leaving on with the ESP button?
T_T??
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Though, isn't it still on even when you've switched the button off? Numerous people on here have made that comment, in which case, if an emergency did occur, and you had to e.g. do an emergency stop whilst turning you would get the full benefits of the Engine Brake Control, ABS, Hydraulic Brake Assist and the ESP?
....^I think this really is the key question - We need a definitive answer so we know exactly what's going on. I'm up at VW Racing next week (is everyone getting bored of me saying this yet?) and they are people who may well be able to give me some answers if no-one else can.
Exactly what are we switching off and leaving on with the ESP button?
T_T??
Sounds good to me! :smiley:
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While you seem to be online T_T ...
Could you shed some light on the above few questions ??? :smiley: :smiley:
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....My trip to VW Racing, and therefore my asking all about ESP etc, is now week of 15th so nothing for me to report until after then.
:afro:
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....My trip to VW Racing, and therefore my asking all about ESP etc, is now week of 15th so nothing for me to report until after then.
:afro:
Much appreciated Red, I look forward to hearing the outcome!
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....My trip to VW Racing, and therefore my asking all about ESP etc, is now week of 15th so nothing for me to report until after then.
:afro:
Much appreciated Red, I look forward to hearing the outcome!
....I better start making a list of questions!!