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General => General discussion => Topic started by: kniterider on 04 May 2004, 19:59

Title: new pictures of engine strip down
Post by: kniterider on 04 May 2004, 19:59
tried to get the old girls to run today, set up timing marks, fitted new cambelt and tensioner, turned over by hand a few times then bunged in me plugs and had a go, well i managed to get it to fire up but it was only running on about 2 1/2 cylinders and making a fair old racket (sounded like 2 or 3 majorly fooked tappets, so i decided to strip it down again and have the head off.......
(http://homepage.ntlworld.com/c.hunter101/20v10.JPG)
(http://homepage.ntlworld.com/c.hunter101/20v11.JPG)
(http://homepage.ntlworld.com/c.hunter101/20v12.JPG)
(http://homepage.ntlworld.com/c.hunter101/20v13.JPG)
(http://homepage.ntlworld.com/c.hunter101/20v14.JPG)

not gonna do nowt to it tomorrow as im havin an easy day, but takin it to work thurs night so will strip head down completely and see which valves are bent, (think its only 2 inlets??)it might have a bit of portin and polishin done also whilst its there!, but if head seem to be fooked or owt then a 1.8t motor will have to be sourced!!!

Gaz ;D

Title: Re:new pictures of engine strip down
Post by: golfvr6 on 04 May 2004, 20:03
Hello Gaz,
Don't look to bad then, you might get away with changing a couple of valves, just make sure the guides aren't damaged!
 :)
Title: Re:new pictures of engine strip down
Post by: kniterider on 04 May 2004, 20:23
hopefully not alot bent, i think from the arrangement of the 3 inlets on each chamber the centre valve looks like it will come down the lowest of the 3 so i think it may be cylinder 2 and 3 that have copped for it, ill bung em in the lathe at work on a slow speed and see which are bent!!! yeah ill scheck the guides for any scoring etc

Gaz, not gonna be rushin as i havent got the dosh for all the bits yet!!! (er head gasket and bolts ?100 ish) valves (inlet ?9.50 (pattern parts each) vw ?29.95 each!!!) plus gotta get new oil and filter again (just bunged mobile 1 in it a few weeks back!!) and vw longlife coolant aswell!! gonna fit new water pump aswell as i ve heard these fail at around 80k miles ?30, and theres another secondary roller ont the timing belt side of things in which the bearing has also failed,

Title: Re:new pictures of engine strip down
Post by: kniterider on 05 May 2004, 10:21
lookin even worse this morning!!!, see pics!!, cleaned out oil/water that had gone into cylinders when i removed head and theres 2 promenant marks where the exhaust valves have hit EACH piston!!!!!, oh dear!! that means 8 exhaust valves straight away!!, theres a few small marks that might indicate ive hit 2 or 3 inlet valves, i wont know for sure till i strip and put em in the lathe at work, this is lookin like its gonna get costly, gonna ring vw and ask for genuine valve prices (12 inlet,8 exhaust) and see what it comes to, then consider engine swap!!!!!!

(http://homepage.ntlworld.com/c.hunter101/piston1.jpg)
(http://homepage.ntlworld.com/c.hunter101/piston2.jpg)
(http://homepage.ntlworld.com/c.hunter101/piston3.jpg)
(http://homepage.ntlworld.com/c.hunter101/piston4.jpg)
(http://homepage.ntlworld.com/c.hunter101/block.jpg)

deffo no inters for me, gonna have to pull out of rollin road day aswell now, what a total cu@t >:(
Title: Re:new pictures of engine strip down
Post by: Overseer on 05 May 2004, 10:30
damn  :'( :'(
Title: Re:new pictures of engine strip down
Post by: golfvr6 on 05 May 2004, 11:33
Gaz,
Have a look around some breakers, should be able to get a cheap head.
Good luck mate  :)
Title: Re:new pictures of engine strip down
Post by: jte on 05 May 2004, 11:38
Gaz,
Have a look around some breakers, should be able to get cheap head.


 :o :o :o

Have you got any phone numbers? ;D
Title: Re:new pictures of engine strip down
Post by: Veedubgt18v on 05 May 2004, 11:40
1.8t!  ;D
1.8t!  ;D
1.8t!  ;D
1.8t!  ;D
1.8t!  ;D
Title: Re:new pictures of engine strip down
Post by: kniterider on 05 May 2004, 11:56
right just got off the phone from local vw dealership!!

get a load of this!!

exhaust valves ?35.92 each includin vat (i need 8 deffo)
inlet valves ?15.17 each inc vat (take it i need 12 for worst case!!)
head gasket ?28.12 inc vat
head bolts ?2.66 inc vat each (i need 10)
roller (on timing as bearing ng) ?23.58 inc vat

so if you work it out if i need all valves its as follows

exhaust valves ?287.36
inlet valves       ?182.04
head gasket     ?28.12
head bolts        ?26.60
roller                 ?23.58
-------------------------------
total                  ?547.70 inc vat

that dosnt include mobile 1 oil (again) ?28, filter ?5, vw longlife coolant ?20 plus the ?68 i spent yesterday on new cambelt and tensioner which makes a total whoppin cost off.......

?668!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! jokin!!!!!!!

feel like puttin it back together and towin it some where and firing it!!!! fookin joke i tell thee!!! llokin for 1.8t all in for around ?600 will go and get and fit me self i think
 then recon 20v engine when i have cash, bang on carbs and stick in the 16v.....................all cash permittin will have to do some more wheelin and dealin..

Gaz
Title: Re:new pictures of engine strip down
Post by: Veedubgt18v on 05 May 2004, 12:03
harsh! oh the life of a dubber. tis is where 8v rocks!  ;)
Title: Re:new pictures of engine strip down
Post by: jte on 05 May 2004, 12:06
The head gasket is quite reasonable at ?28.
Title: Re:new pictures of engine strip down
Post by: kniterider on 05 May 2004, 12:09
yeah i dont mind the price of the head gasket and the bolts nor the roller, oil etc, its just the valves!! europarts will charge ?9.50 per inlet valve and ?11.80 for exhaust valves, but not sure wether theyd be any good?? a cheaper option yeas but how long would non vag parts last???

 :'(
Title: Re:new pictures of engine strip down
Post by: kniterider on 05 May 2004, 12:11
any one know any numbers of any GOOD vw breakers???

 :'(
Title: Re:new pictures of engine strip down
Post by: Veedubgt18v on 05 May 2004, 12:11
is there no way you can go to a salvage yard and strip out the parts you need from a crash dmaged car, clean them and grind them in. wouldnt that work?  ???
Title: Re:new pictures of engine strip down
Post by: jte on 05 May 2004, 12:11
Yeah, if it was my car i'd go for VAG, but they are damn expensive.  

Could you source them from scrap yards or is that not really sensible?
Title: Re:new pictures of engine strip down
Post by: jte on 05 May 2004, 12:13
Or just take the whole head/engine from a crash damaged car.  Got to be cheaper than ?600.
Title: Re:new pictures of engine strip down
Post by: Veedubgt18v on 05 May 2004, 12:14
i reckon theres a way to do it cheaper than vag without sacrificing quality, i reckon crash damaged is the way to go
Title: Re:new pictures of engine strip down
Post by: kniterider on 05 May 2004, 12:19
yeah probably ill ring a few if anyone can come up with some decent breakers, the engine only ran for around a year then got changed for 2ltr 8v so there aint gonna be many about i thinks.................
Title: Re:new pictures of engine strip down
Post by: Veedubgt18v on 05 May 2004, 12:22
yeah that would explain the exorbitant pprices, nevermind keep looking im sure it will work out, cant you get an exchange head from a vw specialist like in the magazines?
Title: Re:new pictures of engine strip down
Post by: Veedubgt18v on 05 May 2004, 12:23
was that engine fitted to any audis or seats or skodas or anything?
Title: Re:new pictures of engine strip down
Post by: Golfgal on 05 May 2004, 12:57
Woah!!

Sorry Gaz  :(


I have joint custody n bills of the mk2 wi my ex and we had a rough week this week.

Put set of new tyres on (p6000) then got the alinment all done. New clutch and then a cobra cat 1 alarm. Ex was driving home in the mk2 and I ws in the mk1 then all of a sudden she cuts out. After being towed to the garage by the mk1 ha ha ha turns out pistons gone   :o The alarm cost ?360 plus all the other bits was a bit peed off!!

ANyways shes getting a new eninge as we speak. another 8v dropped straight in. One owner FSH. Total cost ?450 Drooped her off tues mornin and been promised she there at inters. I don't minds as I takin mk1.

It never rains..........

Though my ?250 mk1 is doing really well!!
Title: Re:new pictures of engine strip down
Post by: golfvr6 on 05 May 2004, 13:04
Gaz,
I'm sure that engine was also fitted to Audi A3's as well.
Not sure about other non-vw's.
Title: Re:new pictures of engine strip down
Post by: richandhazel on 05 May 2004, 13:15
Gaz, just going to get you a price from Engine Express, just down the road from Heathrow. My mate used them and they were a lot cheaper than GSF or Eurocarparts for valves.

Back in a mo......
Title: Re:new pictures of engine strip down
Post by: richandhazel on 05 May 2004, 13:28
Right the companies called 'Engine Express', phone number:-

0208 438 2347

Recommend you give them a call as they advise total head overhaul due to previous experience and repeat failures of this particular engine.

Inlets are ?5.50
Exhaust are ?9.70
Guides are ?4.50

All plus VAT..........but give them a call.......it might well effect your final decision.......they seem to know their stuff ;)
Title: Re:new pictures of engine strip down
Post by: kniterider on 05 May 2004, 13:31
cheers rich, getting some varied quotes for second hand heads coming back from the searches ive done, ranging between 225 to 260 plus vat but both including delivery, then ive gotta get head bolts and gasket aswell, the dearest on i spose to be only 42k wich is nearly half of what mines done?? really stuck as to what to do now.........take the rick on a second hand jobby or splash out on mine??still gona be a few weeks till i have cash for either if there gonna be this expensive!! (some one buy my 8v please ?300)
Title: Re:new pictures of engine strip down
Post by: kniterider on 05 May 2004, 13:32
cheers rich will bare em in mind!!!
Title: Re:new pictures of engine strip down
Post by: kniterider on 05 May 2004, 16:58
right i have sourced and ordered a secondhand 20v head, its from a 1999 1.8 20v gti same as mine but with only 19,000miles on it, the cost was ?264 all included (vat and delivery) the unit has been pressure tested etc so im assumin its all ok, ive just ordered new genuine vw head gasket and bolts and a new secondary rolller for the timing belt, will pick them up on saturday morning, head should be here on friday, ill get new oil=filter and coolant whilst at vw so i can start work saturday dinner, im gonna take my time and check everything twice or more times as when i eventually turn the key i want it to run nicely!!!!!, i hope that puttin a low mileage head on like that wont make it 'tight' like it was when i bought it!!! its taken 10,000 of thrashin to loosen it up!!!

Gaz
Title: Re:new pictures of engine strip down
Post by: Golfgal on 05 May 2004, 17:08
The last sentance worries me slightly lol  :-* :-*

Title: Re:new pictures of engine strip down
Post by: golfvr6 on 05 May 2004, 17:40
Nice one Gaz, i reckon you done the right thing.
Your existing head is likely to be more damaged than just the valves, guides etc..
I take it the 2nd hand head is complete, if so i reckon you got a bargain mate.
 ;)
Title: Re:new pictures of engine strip down
Post by: golfvr6 on 05 May 2004, 17:42
Another thing Gaz, how much damage was done to the pistons? better have a closer look at those score marks!
Worth doing to avoid any future problems  ;)
Title: Re:new pictures of engine strip down
Post by: winstonb on 05 May 2004, 18:26
probably a bit late now if youve already sourced one, but the 20v Seat Cupra probably has the same engine.
Title: Re:new pictures of engine strip down
Post by: richandhazel on 05 May 2004, 19:25
Looks like you've found the best route to go.......can't complain at that price.

Agree with '6 about the nicks in the top of the pistons......I think if you leave them like that you could get 'hot spots'. Not sure and open to critisism if its a bad idea but what about carefully blending out the damage :-\
Title: Re:new pictures of engine strip down
Post by: richandhazel on 05 May 2004, 19:35
Nice one Gaz, i reckon you done the right thing.
Your existing head is likely to be more damaged than just the valves, guides etc..
I take it the 2nd hand head is complete, if so i reckon you got a bargain mate.
 ;)

^^^^That is exactly what the engine place said when I spoke to them this afternoon. A lot of people insist on replacing the obvious damage only i.e bent valves, damaged guides.........only to be coming back a few hundred miles later requiring complete head overhaul: all valves, guides and even the tappets!!

Did you speak to them Gaz? I found them extremely helpful and knowledgeable even though they knew I was only after prices for parts and that it was merely a speculative enquiry on your behalf.
Title: Re:new pictures of engine strip down
Post by: kniterider on 05 May 2004, 19:42
only samll marks, just like some ones dug a finger nail in em nowt serious
cant see any crack or owt

Gaz
Title: Re:new pictures of engine strip down
Post by: golfvr6 on 05 May 2004, 19:45
Thats exactly what i thought about the pistons Rich, not sure what to do with them , but surely leaving them will cause future trouble.
Blending it sounds good to me, providing the damage isn't that deep.
Title: Re:new pictures of engine strip down
Post by: kniterider on 05 May 2004, 19:48
nah isnt deep 0.5 of a mm if that, , im sure a small wheel on a dremel would smooth it out a piece of pi55 ???
Title: Re:new pictures of engine strip down
Post by: kniterider on 06 May 2004, 16:17
just removed water pump from block today, as there know to fail at around 80k miles (dont wanna spend all this cash gettin sorted for pump to go next week and over heat it!!) so for ?31 includin vat its well worth it i reckon!!!! ive inspected it closely and theres some hairline cracks on the plastic impeller which is spose to break up, so it looks like i caught this in time!!,the parts chap at vw said there is now a modified version (which im getting), oh yeah just for a bit of info, did any of you lot know the 1.8 20v non turbo engine was a vvt jobby??? thats wht i thought, but it is same as the 180bhp turbo engines, the inlet valve timing is altered by a soleniod conttrolled by the igniton, so what i though was just a fancey cam chain tensioner is quite a complitcated little device!!!!! just praying when this head turns up 2mrw morning its got the cams etc like the geezer said then i dont have to rob bits off my old head!!!

Gaz 8)

oh yeah if i dont get on at the weekend etc have fun at inters peeps!!! wish i was going but due to this i aint!! will take loads off step by step pics of the rebuild (for those that are interested in the mk4 20v engines(maybe i should post in there??))

 ;D
Title: Re:new pictures of engine strip down
Post by: richandhazel on 07 May 2004, 01:21
You take loads of pics and help build us a guide.....I'll build it all into my website.........and one day I hope to have one of those engines in my mk1.

Shame you're not coming to inters but will take loads of pics for you.
Title: Re:new pictures of engine strip down
Post by: kniterider on 07 May 2004, 07:05
will do camera at the ready!! whilst you lot are drinkin beer and lookin at cars, ill be spannered up, (with the occasional beer!!) fixin this!!, the more i look and tinker the easier it all seems not such a scarey thing after all!! wish me luck!! have fun peeps and take some good pics so i can see what ive missed!! ill make up for it at action i promise(if ive saved some cash by then!!, rebuild costs lokin around ?500 ish in total!! :o ) right just got in from night shift, now goin to sleep on settee so i can hear courier man ring the bell with the delivery of my head!!!

Gaz 8)
Title: Re:new pictures of engine strip down
Post by: kniterider on 08 May 2004, 18:22
cant do nowt till monday now >:( as head never turned up today!! im assured it will be here early monday!!! got all the spankin new bits from vw that i need though :P

Gaz 8)
Title: Re:new pictures of engine strip down
Post by: rustynuts on 08 May 2004, 20:20
Well good luck with the rebuild, I now see why you need that red one out of the way so much.