GolfGTIforum.co.uk
Model specific boards => Golf mk5 => Topic started by: Exonian on 13 August 2008, 05:55
-
Bit of an essay but here goes (skip to last paragraph if you're easily bored! :laugh: ):
Over the last few years I've kept most of my car mods to 'essentials' as I have tended to chop and change cars quite often. Sticking to re-maps and wheels/tyres and when needed suspension upgrades.
I did initially plan on shedding my GTI early next year for maybe an R32 or Leon Cupra or maybe even a high mileage ED30 if the price was right. But keeping a close eye on prices of those cars as they drop into the 'affordability' bracket for a mere mortal like me I also note that ordinary GTIs prices are dropping quickly too now so the 'cost to change' gap isn't getting much smaller. As I like my GTI and depending on if it stays reliable I think I may well keep it for a few years instead as the depreciation may well even out a bit after a few years.
So, as it's out of warranty my thoughts are going towards further engine mods. Obviously a DV is going to be needed and if I can figure out how to do it I will relocate it too, ED30 style.
Exhausts are a bit out of my price range really as I would want a turbo back system and as I do a very low annual mileage I wouldn't get my money's worth out of that mod for sure.
Next thought goes to the uprated fuel pump. I've had a good read of the threads on this mod that I can find and as mine is an early GTI the cam wear issue is a bit of a worry for me. There are obviously new products becoming available all the time and there are always people going for established products and many of the threads about the fuel pumps are relatively old now; so I'm looking for recommendations and opinions on obtaining and fitting and possibly re-remapping the car.
Who's got what, fitted where and all importantly how much?
:smiley:
-
I've been running one of the very early AutoTech pumps on my car since around January this year, touch wood without issue. I ordered 6 of them for a group of us and so far everyone is ok. What we do keep an eye on is the Cam Follower at around 7 k to 10k miles intervals and at £20 a time it's not the end of the world to replace it but in truth none of them have needed replacement yet.
Some care must be taken if you only buy the internals as it involves taking the pump apart. If you aren't confident with that then JKM offer ready built pumps for a decent price.
CAM lobe wear can happen even on stock cars with stock pumps so to some extent you just have to accept that if it's going to happen then it's going to happen. Worth checking it when you change the pump though.
On the exhaust side of things I wouldn't rush into saying you need a full TBE, I've only ever had CAT Back and it's served me well. I would suggest buying a good branded one though.
I don't know where you are located but I would certainly suggest it worth having a chat with Keith at JKM, mention that you've spoken to me and I'm sure he'd be very keen to offer you a discounted full package. I know that they have a limited offer of VAT free REVO software at the moment which is a nice saving. Even if you don't buy from them, Keith is a fountain of knowledge and will certainly put your mind at rest and answer your questions.
-
....Ditto Stu's recommendation of JKM in Portsmouth (if within reach).
However, modifying the engine internals, such as fuel pump, is not a good idea unless you have other complimentary mods to Stage2. And even then, a source very close to VW (which I can't reveal) advises against an aftermarket fuel-pump for the 2.0T FSI.
Don't make the mistake of rushing in and modding your engine to the max without also considering its handling and balance and driveability. Exhaust and intake and remap all work hand-in-hand. So do suspension and anti-roll-bars and brakes.
Get used to your standard GTI for a bit and then you will appreciate what each mod does step by step. Oh, and consider remapping your driving brain by going on a course such as Drivetrain - Probably the most important mod of all!
:cool:
-
However, modifying the engine internals, such as fuel pump, is not a good idea unless you have other complimentary mods to Stage2.
Stage 2 is not a requirement for the Fuel Pump upgrade and it will work fine with Stage 1 SW alone. In fact if you were to look at the fuel pressure logs of a stock K04 car you would see that a Fuel Pump upgrade would be helpfull. The bottom line is that the stock pump doesn't flow enough volume to feed the engine at higher RPM.
-
The bottom line is that the stock pump doesn't flow enough volume to feed the engine at higher RPM.
Forgive for my ignorance but isn't the uprated pump meant to supply more fuel in the mid range as the stock pump is not capable of fully meeting the demand so but can do so at higher rpm?
-
From what I understand thats correct, its mid-range where it needs more fuel.
JBS in Chestefield can supply and fit the AT pump for around 300notes - depends on your location
-
I agree and perhaps I didn't word my reply correctly, by higher I didn't mean red line :grin:
-
However, modifying the engine internals, such as fuel pump, is not a good idea unless you have other complimentary mods to Stage2.
Stage 2 is not a requirement for the Fuel Pump upgrade and it will work fine with Stage 1 SW alone. In fact if you were to look at the fuel pressure logs of a stock K04 car you would see that a Fuel Pump upgrade would be helpfull. The bottom line is that the stock pump doesn't flow enough volume to feed the engine at higher RPM.
....My understanding both from Revo and APR is that it's strongly recommended to upgrade the map SW if fitting an aftermarket Fuel Pump and that Stage2+ is written specifically to accommodate the FP. Am I misunderstanding someone?
-
Thats correct but it will run with Stage1 code also - just Stage2+ is 'designed' with it in mind so has more potential
-
....Cheers, neg :cool: That helps support what I was told.
-
I think you'll agree that my car ran very well with the Stage One Code when you saw it RR. :wink:
I agree, that yes there has been Stage II plus SW written (I was slightly involved in it and it was written on Makefish's car) however it isn't a requirement.
-
Thanks very much guys. Very informative and JKM are the ones I keep hearing about on here and other forums so I will certainly be speaking to them when I get back from my hols. I'm Devon based by the way.
I'm glad you mentioned/warned about it being a PITA to fit the internals only kit Stu as that's what had taken my eye more recently whilst I was thinking about saving some ££££!!!
And Robin, yes I was certainly bearing in mind other parts that would need to be uprated before or alongside the engine work. Very good point about the 'driver training' and one so very many people overlook. Me included if I'm honest, I've looked at doing such a thing so many times but it's one of those things I've just never got round to. I was all set to do a course for my last Birthday in fact, but ended up blowing the money on a set of BBSs!!! :embarassed:
My plans for the chassis and braking mods are quite modest by some standards but to start with I've been keeping an eye out for some Cupra/R32 front brakes at reasonable cost. I appreciate that there are many brake mods available but I probably do less than 5k per annum mileage wise and most of that is with wife and kids on board so driven 'sensibly'. Better brakes are definately on the agenda but I don't need track day stoppers. Due to work and finances my track day driving is history now, plus I'm getting too old/sensible/slow!!!
As for suspension all I had planned was a set of FSD dampers really. One of the things that swayed me to the GTI over say a Leon FR was the good ride and handling balance. As I said above, I'm not getting any younger and I've had too many suspension kits in the past that have been too harsh for normal road use and have really spoilt my enjoyment of the car. And once I start doing the sums for the mods and get past a certain figure I start to cast my eyes back towards changing the car to the aforementioned R32 or Cupra which would probably remain unmodified as they are pretty much all there out of the box. :lipsrsealed: Hmmmm......convince me otherwise chaps!
-
I wouldn't go so far as to say fitting internals was a PITA, in fact it's quite simple however you need to be confident and make sure that it is re-assembled correctly.
-
As for suspension all I had planned was a set of FSD dampers really. One of the things that swayed me to the GTI over say a Leon FR was the good ride and handling balance. As I said above, I'm not getting any younger and I've had too many suspension kits in the past that have been too harsh for normal road use and have really spoilt my enjoyment of the car.
....I can recommend KoniFSD's as an excellent road setup as they automatically hydraulicly harden/soften according to road surface as you drive. However, I can't remember if they need aftermarket springs to work best. Anti-roll bars will compliment such suspension. But it's a slippery slope as you already know!
-
From memory I think Koni recommend either standard springs or mildly uprated sports springs for the FSDs as they don't work properly if the car has stiff or very short springs.
I wonder if uprated ARBs with otherwise standard suspension would be any good though?
So many choices, so little time/money :grin:
-
So many choices, so little money :grin:
Tell me about it!!
-
From memory I think Koni recommend either standard springs or mildly uprated sports springs for the FSDs as they don't work properly if the car has stiff or very short springs.
I wonder if uprated ARBs with otherwise standard suspension would be any good though?
....I think ARB's always help every suspension by reducing body roll and nose-dive.
-
From memory I think Koni recommend either standard springs or mildly uprated sports springs for the FSDs as they don't work properly if the car has stiff or very short springs.
I wonder if uprated ARBs with otherwise standard suspension would be any good though?
So many choices, so little time/money :grin:
I had Autotech lightweight ARB's fitted a while back. At the time they were fitted to standard suspension and as soon as I set off back home after fitting (went the long way :wink:) I noticed a marked difference in the side to side handling of the car - which I really liked. They were a bit more expensive than most ARB's but definitely worked well. :cool:
-
R/R I am curious as to why someone at VW, tech or not would advise to stay away from uprated fuelpumps what do they base this suggestion on?
As for myself the day is almost upon me(mon) Autotech fuelpump and R32 front brakes being fitted.
-
R/R I am curious as to why someone at VW, tech or not would advise to stay away from uprated fuelpumps what do they base this suggestion on?
As for myself the day is almost upon me(mon) Autotech fuelpump and R32 front brakes being fitted.
....Btw, you know that Monday is a Bank Holiday?
I heard it second hand but am up there on Tuesday so I'll ask first hand. Would it help you if you PM'd me your mobile and I phoned you sometime on Tuesday? But I don't know what time it would be.
-
R/R I am curious as to why someone at VW, tech or not would advise to stay away from uprated fuelpumps what do they base this suggestion on?
As for myself the day is almost upon me(mon) Autotech fuelpump and R32 front brakes being fitted.
....Btw, you know that Monday is a Bank Holiday?
I heard it second hand but am up there on Tuesday so I'll ask first hand. Would it help you if you PM'd me your mobile and I phoned you sometime on Tuesday? But I don't know what time it would be.
Yes parts of Scotland are closed on monday but for most its not a holiday.So by Tues it will have been done lol.I was just curious as i know you have friends in motorsport/tuning.
I meant to say in previous post that for some reason Eibach ARB's seem to squeak on the MK5 golf& mk2 leons for some reason i had this on my leon and have heard of another golf having the same issue.
-
To be honest, the wear issue can be addressed, and the higher volume of fuel could cause a bit of an issue with regard to displacing oil. There is a fair chance a lot of people who have bought a brand new Golf GTi are not going to keep their car for a duration longer than say 3 years so therefore within the warranty period. What happens after that is not going to be a problem to the first owner.
R/R - you should really say whats on your mind rather than make a statement and not back it up with fact. If you have information about issues an uprated pump can give, surely it would do us all a favour by letting us know exactly what the issues may be.
[/£0.02]
-
R/R - you should really say whats on your mind rather than make a statement and not back it up with fact. If you have information about issues an uprated pump can give, surely it would do us all a favour by letting us know exactly what the issues may be.
[/£0.02]
....Sorry but until I have info which I can be confident is reliable, it would be potentially very misleading. I was at this stage, until I can find out more info, merely flagging that issues exist and hoping to do this community a service by making people aware. Anyway, I am not THE one and only expert on this site - I'm just networking and sharing info for the benefit of all, including myself. I am very conscious of 'expert opinions' varying and sometimes even conflicting and I am always anxious not to post wrong or misleading info, even unintentionally.
Regarding the Fuel Pump, my current understanding is that there were serious issues with the first aftermarket ones manufactured but this has been solved. Also I now understand that fuel pump issues have been only on particular engine series but I don't know which at the moment - Perhaps someone else here does.
I hope to share more info in due course and hope you now understand 'where I'm coming from'.
This is already probably common knowledge but the FP is very tightly controlled by the ECU because fuelling in the FSI engine is very critical. However, the behaviour and interactions between FP and ECU are, I believe, smart. I stand to be corrected but that's my understanding.
All any of us can do is to post information which is to the best of our knowledge at the time.
-
I meant to say in previous post that for some reason Eibach ARB's seem to squeak on the MK5 golf& mk2 leons for some reason i had this on my leon and have heard of another golf having the same issue.
....I had the same issue after about 40,000 miles - It was the poly bushes on the ARB's needing regreasing/lubing.
-
sorry to interupt the flux capaciter thread but Red Robin were is the scirocco write up :rolleyes:
-
sorry to interupt the flux capaciter thread but Red Robin were is the scirocco write up :rolleyes:
....25 pics ready and I just took a quick break to catch up here. I am midst writing and will now go back to it. I hope to complete it tonight but it could be a long night!
-
sorry to interupt the flux capaciter thread but Red Robin were is the scirocco write up :rolleyes:
....25 pics ready and I just took a quick break to catch up here. I am midst writing and will now go back to it. I hope to complete it tonight but it could be a long night!
Sod ya then, im going to have to sit with the mrs now :wink:
-
....Something I forgot to post : - If you have an aftermarket fuel pump it's recommended to check it and the 'cam follower(?)' about every 5,000 miles, I'm told.
-
5k might be a little frequent IMHO. I did mine at about 7-8k and it was fine.
-
5k might be a little frequent IMHO. I did mine at about 7-8k and it was fine.
....I'm not saying something would need fixing but only a suggestion of 5k as a yardstick. The advice I got was to check regularly. So I guess you'll check again in another 7-8k. I find it easier to work in intervals of 5/10/20k.
-
I believe the same check should be made with a standard pump as well to be fair :)
-
Fitted yesterday and the cam follower was good.I opted for the Autotech pump, I have noticed dif mid range and top end.Could have had the Intercooler fitted at the same time too if i had taken it with me :embarassed:.