GolfGTIforum.co.uk
Model specific boards => Golf mk5 => Topic started by: teebee on 31 July 2008, 08:20
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Remember ?
Reared its head when tyres were changed ? ESP cutting in ?
It's just that mine's at the dealers Friday (aircon's packed up :rolleyes:) and I wanted to get their view.
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i guess it was lost in the recent issues (2 months worth of posts have been lost)
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....It was me who started that thread - I gotta dash out now but will update this thread here when I come back this afternoon.
Meanwhile, here's something nice to look at while I do my write-up : -
(http://img.worldcarfans.com/US/2008/2/4/3080204.001/1009big.jpg)
:drool: :drool: :drool: :drool: :drool:
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....Okay, following 'snatching' problems when enjoying driving enthusiastically, I had a long and very helpful phone conversation with Goodyear's UK tyretech support.
Firstly, the tyre industry as a whole recommends that on FWD cars where it's safe to mix tyre treads (but always matched on axles and never at all on AWD vehicles) that you run your deeper treads on the rear rather than the front. This of course assumes that your front treads are not threadbare! The basic reason is (as I understand it) that as you approach the limits of your front wheels you don't want your rear wheels to be heading off as too much oversteer - The rear needs stability. Anyroadup, it's the tyre industry recommendation.
On the subject of this thread and a 'snatching' or 'tugging' problem : - The Goodyear F1 Assymetrics have a special insert on the inside designed to reduce leaning and to keep more tread on the road. The internal structure of the F1 Assyms is also designed to reduce G-forces. The GSD3 F1's don't have this same structure and therefore when 'normal' F1's and Assyms are on the same car (but of course axle matched), there will be a differential in shoulder flexing when driving more enthusiastically.
What's happening with the 'snatch' (Hello, boys!!) is that the GTI's ESP reads an apparent difference in tyre behaviour which it assumes momentarily to be the beginning of a skid and it compensates accordingly by kicking in with a 'tug' on the system.
Swopping wheels so that the new Assyms are on the front and worn GSD3's on the rear will reduce instances of snatching but not when you are driving much closer to the limits - In which case you could potentially be more easily saying hello to your rear end overtaking you. Fun to watch that happening on the track perhaps, but not in your own car on a public road with many obstacles!
It's safer not to run too high a difference of tread between axles and it's ideal to run all the same treads on all wheels, but in the real world good tyres cost money and why throw away perfectly legal tyres?
Recently I have found less instances of the 'snatching' and still have the worn F1's on the front and new Assyms on the rear axle with about 500 miles driven. I did an enthusiastic 170 mile drive to and from Castle Combe last weekend in hot and dry conditions without any snatching at all.
If you've got any further questions on Goodyear/Dunlop tyre tech subjects, you'll find them extremely helpful (unlike Vredestein!!) 01902 453097, being a service for the public as well as dealers.
Also : -
Goodyear - Goodyear-Contact (http://eu.goodyear.com/uk_en/sitewides/contact/contact.jsp?flagname=Customer%20services)
Dunlop - Dunlop Tyre Center | Support | Tyre Clinic | Tyre Doctor (http://www.dunloptyrecentre.co.uk/support/tyreClinic/tyreDoctor/)
[/end of tyre lecture]
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errrrr.........1 question????!!!???? and im going to sound DUMB so take this p!ss if you all like, but what the hell is snatching??? :embarassed: :embarassed:
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....Not dumb at all, Joe - I forgot to explain it this second time around.
Going into a fast bend it feels as if the brake is suddenly applied on one front wheel - A sudden 'snatch' or 'tug' as ESP kicks in only for a slit second and the car continues. But it's random and very disconcerting until you know what's going on - Especially the first time it happened on a country B-road while 'making progress'.
HTH (Hope This Helps)
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So with ESP off, no snatching?
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....I never drive on public roads with ESP off.
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ok but health and safety aside.. that's the plan?
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....Sorry but I never put my safety aside on public roads.
Plans are:
1 - It's not 'snatching' at the moment, so carry on until it does - If it works, don't mend it.
2 - If it starts 'snatching' again, swop F1's to rear and Assyms to front axle and see what happens.
3 - My F1's will need replacing soon so I'll have Assyms on both axles - Problem solved or Goodyear will get more involved.
4 - Quaiffe diff in a few weeks may override the whole problem.
I always drive on public roads with ESP On, so that's why it needs solving for those circumstances. Yes, I know that ESP Off might establish something but the snatching has happened so randomly and infrequently I don't want ESP Off for so long to find out.
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lol! i was just curious, a simple yes or no would've sufficed :grin:
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....Why use only one or two words when 250 will do!? :grin: If we all did that, we wouldn't have much of a forum.
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I've just fitted a full set of Goodyear Assyms.... and whenever I accelerate hard in a straight line it snatches from side to side, sometimes left, sometimes right. The car is also understeering like crazy. Is this just them wearing in? I must have had them on for about 300 miles now, but I have read of these tyres taking up to 6 weeks to bed in.
Thanks.
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To recap - and this is only my experience, in my car....and all applies with the driver aids 'on'. Part-worn rear tyres had been relocated to the front axle to replace very[i/] worn fronts. We're talking Conti's here, and no previous problem with the now discarded, badly worn front tyres.
1 - Go anywhere near the brakes in a briskly-taken right-hander, and there'll be some unwelcome kickback from the brake pedal, well before you'd expect any intervention. As mentioned before, it felt like (and sounded like) a puncture the first time it happened.
(By the way, this is nothing like the slight 'squirm' you'll all have experienced hundreds of times I'm sure, where your electronics are getting everything to pay attention under extreme braking).
2 - Heavy downhill braking is now making the car a little nervous. Factor in a little left or right hand turn, even a gentle one, and the electronics go all nanny-state on you.
It's really peeing me off now, on top of all the other shyte.
Apr 06 GTI DSG 5dr, 59k, my first and last VW.
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teebee - I'm not understanding your post - You're talking Conti's, not Goodyear Assymetrics, and brakes, not cornering.
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I've just fitted a full set of Goodyear Assyms.... and whenever I accelerate hard in a straight line it snatches from side to side, sometimes left, sometimes right. The car is also understeering like crazy. Is this just them wearing in? I must have had them on for about 300 miles now, but I have read of these tyres taking up to 6 weeks to bed in.
Thanks.
....As mine seem to have stopped 'snatching' for now, I'm beginning to think they just take a very long time to wear in. But why didn't Goodyear's techie tell me that? I've done at least 500 miles on them.
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The original thread was never about a particular make of tyre.
It was about nervous handling brought on by a change of front tyres.
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The original thread was never about a particular make of tyre.
It was about nervous handling brought on by a change of front tyres.
....Wrong, my friend.
It was me who started that thread and it was specifically about the mixture of Goodyear F1's and Assymetrics. However, the problem may apply to other brands of tyres as well.
:cool:
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i get this?! just turn off the esp and it solves it straight away and makes you able to POWER around corners with no auto braking, with decent tyers and susspension setup and esp off the car handles like its on tracks :smiley:
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....So, Joe, do you constantly drive with ESP Off?
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Only time I don't turn my ESP off is in heavy rain. Haven't had any snow to play with yet :evil:
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....So, Joe, do you constantly drive with ESP Off?
no, only on spirited drives and drag from the lights. car just feels soooo much quicker with it off, especially through corners. id say its on about 90% of the time :smiley:
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oh and robin...before you say its not safe to turn off then why would vw give you the option?
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oh and robin...before you say its not safe to turn off then why would vw give you the option?
....No, I wasn't about to say that. I was simply curious about how often you drove with ESP Off. I've only ever driven with it Off on circuits and airfields.
Good question why VW give us the On/Off option on one hand but recommend having it always On in their Handbook.
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Only time I don't turn my ESP off is in heavy rain. Haven't had any snow to play with yet :evil:
....But isn't your Mk5 an 'AWD-ish' R32?
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yep, and the ESP is far too intrusive on it.
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....Yes, and I can understand (or logically think, I think!) that ESP may be more intrusive on AWD. On my FWD GTI there have been a few unpredictable occasions, especially in Winter, when I have been very glad of ESP.
Generally, when consciously 'making progress' my driving style rarely pushes it to the limits where the ESP kicks in adversely.
As I mentioned earlier, I'm becoming convinced that wearing in new tyres has been the problem.
:smiley:
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errrrr.........1 question????!!!???? and im going to sound DUMB so take this p!ss if you all like, but what the hell is snatching??? :embarassed: :embarassed:
I thought this was somthing I used to do when I was a youunger male..... from the noun "Snatch" e.g. I like your Snatch, can I play with your Snatch.... So it's not the same kind of Snatch then?
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errrrr.........1 question????!!!???? and im going to sound DUMB so take this p!ss if you all like, but what the hell is snatching??? :embarassed: :embarassed:
I thought this was somthing I used to do when I was a youunger male..... from the noun "Snatch" e.g. I like your Snatch, can I play with your Snatch.... So it's not the same kind of Snatch then?
....VW drivers wanted!
(http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b308/RedRobin_05/vwdriverswanted.jpg)
How long do you reckon before prudish photobucket remove this image!? :evil:
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errrrr.........1 question????!!!???? and im going to sound DUMB so take this p!ss if you all like, but what the hell is snatching??? :embarassed: :embarassed:
I thought this was somthing I used to do when I was a youunger male..... from the noun "Snatch" e.g. I like your Snatch, can I play with your Snatch.... So it's not the same kind of Snatch then?
....VW drivers wanted!
(http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b308/RedRobin_05/vwdriverswanted.jpg)
How long do you reckon before prudish photobucket remove this image!? :evil:
I like a nice VW "Beetle Bonnet". Good post RR :wink: