GolfGTIforum.co.uk
Model specific boards => Golf mk5 => Topic started by: Hurdy on 20 May 2008, 14:59
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Found a worrying thread over on VWvortex.
Remember ..don't have nightmares!
PS I'll be looking into uprated mounts sooner rather than later.
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3840905
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Hurdy.
Could you please explain what a VF Mount is? And why this is bad?
Sorry, I dont really know what is going on :embarassed:
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Hurdy.
Could you please explain what a VF Mount is? And why this is bad?
Sorry, I dont really know what is going on :embarassed:
Glad its not just me then, didnt know whether to ask or not!
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I googled it and got a few dodge results so decided asking was the best option :lipsrsealed:
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VF as in VF Engineering. The bolt in the picture is from the dog bone mount, VF make an uprated one of these. Hopefully the uprated mount includes a superior bolt because a stiffer mount will only put more pressure on the bolt. A TBS (similar to, but not quite a recall) has been issued in the U.S for this as in some cases the bolt has sheared and sent the engine flying forwards into the radiator.
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So you telling me those bolts hold the engine in place?
And how does a dogbone insert effect it? How does it work or what does a dogbone insert do?
Sorry guys. Im pretty slow. Never heard these words before :embarassed:
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So you telling me those bolts hold the engine in place?
And how does a dogbone insert effect it? How does it work or what does a dogbone insert do?
Sorry guys. Im pretty slow. Never heard these words before :embarassed:
Good man keep asking, I dont feel so stupid now.
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Notice his car is one thats been heavily modded, and more strain will be placed on the engine mounts if your getting more torque from the engine. Id sit up and take note if your warranty is nearly up with vw incase the worse may happen.
Thats quite shocking. There is no other reason that could happen. thats torque stress of the bolt. Hurdy-vtec,gaz, take note, get yours checked at some stage.
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Oh wait...
Phils post just cleared it up. So the bolts are being bent by the extra torgue and power and therefore you must upgrade to the VF Mounts?
(I dont mind looking the fool, just lost)
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The steel that they must be using isnt strong enough, and when you consider your increasing your horsepower and almost half the ammount of torque, those will shear no problem., also hes saying its also ripping the repair helicoils out aswell :shocked:, jesus thats some strain on that if its done that.
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Ok. Last question :kiss:
So the VF Mounts are at fault? Or the standard GTi mounts are at fault?
If I understand correctly the VF Mounts are at fault and the OP is warning people that they might fail?
Mike :embarassed:
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well the guy that posted it, was stage 2 remap , so that tells me its not a vw warranty issue as the bolts dont appear to be failing in normal operation, its the ones that have been modded that need to find out whether theirs are damaged and if they can get more higher tensil steel bolts fitted instead to stop the catastrophic failure which in this case would result in MAJOR financial breakdown, and wouldnt be covered by the dealers
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Aha
Now I understand. Those bolts are a bit small to be holding a engine in place. Wow.
Mike
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Ok. Last question :kiss:
So the VF Mounts are at fault? Or the standard GTi mounts are at fault?
If I understand correctly the VF Mounts are at fault and the OP is warning people that they might fail?
Mike :embarassed:
No, the standard parts aren't up to the task. The dogbone mount, also known as the torque arm fixes to the rear of the gear box and stops the whole engine/box rotating as you accelerate. These have always been fairly weak as standard, even in the MK4's as VW use a sloshy bush to allow a lot of play/more comfort. Uprated ones will stiffen things up and prevent 'wheel hop' when pulling away fast. For the mk5 platform there are uprated mounts available but the torque arm inserts seem to be more popular, cheaper, and far easier to install. Like I said before though, stiffer mount/bush means more force on the bolt, so I hope they're up to the task.
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Oh ok. I understand now. Learn something new everyday :smiley:
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whats the cost to change the mounts ?
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I think the torque inserts are about 40 quid, and looking at pictures of the kit they use an uprated bolt.
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So its just the insert we need then ?, is this the APR/ ECS type one that a few already have fitted ?
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So its just the insert we need then ?, is this the APR/ ECS type one that a few already have fitted ?
Yep. But knowing what we know now.. I'd be asking questions about the tensile strength of the new bolt. Can't tell for sure just by looking.
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....I've just spoken to Awesome and unless you are running a Stage2+, a torque insert is enough. An aftermarket dogbone will definitely give you a much harsher ride for road use, as will a full VF-style set of engine mounts.
It's definitely recommended to add a Torque Insert to the standard Mk5 GTI, particularly if remapped etc.
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You get a new bolt with the ECS mount - I would hope this would be good enough. I tell you what though from what I remember those VF mounts aint cheap - nothing liek scare tactics to make you part with your cash...
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oooh, sorry guys :embarassed:, been out this afternoon. I didn't know that there would be so many questions. Topher has answered most of your questions anyway.
Aftermarket torque inserts are enough for most people and these do have uprated tensile strength bolts.
Typical makes are Neuspeed, APR, VF and ECS. I have an APR one fitted and it reduces wheel hop substantially over standard and in my experience hasn't make any real noticeable difference to the ride quality.
The helicoils are basically replacement female threads that look like mini springs and are inserted into the bored out hole where the original bolt stripped the thread. It is my opinion that helicoils are a poor substitute (but in most cases the only option) for the original threads and so prevention is always the right course to take.
For cars that have a substantial increase in power you can buy VF engineering engine and transmission mounts. These control the movement of the engine even more although I would suspect that you would feel more engine vibration filtering through to the cabin with these fitted. They will however give more control over the movement of the engine.
See the link below and click on the second picture of the VF engine mount for more info.
http://www.vf-accessories.com/
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You get a new bolt with the ECS mount - I would hope this would be good enough. I tell you what though from what I remember those VF mounts aint cheap - nothing liek scare tactics to make you part with your cash...
the VF pendulum mount will set you back £150 from Regal....
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I replaced my dog bone mount on my Leon Cupra R and it made a noticable difference but did increase vibration at tick over - it got better over time. I would say manual cars would notice the improvement even more due to gear changes too.
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I replaced my dog bone mount on my Leon Cupra R and it made a noticable difference but did increase vibration at tick over - it got better over time. I would say manual cars would notice the improvement even more due to gear changes too.
Yeah, it could be that mine is a DSG that I haven't noticed it too much :undecided:
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oooh, sorry guys :embarassed:, been out this afternoon. I didn't know that there would be so many questions. Topher has answered most of your questions anyway.
Aftermarket torque inserts are enough for most people and these do have uprated tensile strength bolts.
Typical makes are Neuspeed, APR, VF and ECS. I have an APR one fitted and it reduces wheel hop substantially over standard and in my experience hasn't make any real noticeable difference to the ride quality.
The helicoils are basically replacement female threads that look like mini springs and are inserted into the bored out hole where the original bolt stripped the thread. It is my opinion that helicoils are a poor substitute (but in most cases the only option) for the original threads and so prevention is always the right course to take.
For cars that have a substantial increase in power you can buy VF engineering engine and transmission mounts. These control the movement of the engine even more although I would suspect that you would feel more engine vibration filtering through to the cabin with these fitted. They will however give more control over the movement of the engine.
See the link below and click on the second picture of the VF engine mount for more info.
http://www.vf-accessories.com/
There's nothin wrong with helicoils, they give as much strength and in some cases more as they can be oversized than standard. We use them all the time on planes particularly on the engines,
a little off topic, sorry
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Which reminds me - the ECS mount in my garage isnt going to make the slightest bit of difference sat there, I must get it one the car!
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Which reminds me - the ECS mount in my garage isnt going to make the slightest bit of difference sat there, I must get it one the car!
i must get one, we need a group buy
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There less than 30 quid, do we need a group buy? :smiley:
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yeh :smiley: , fitting included
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There a doddle to fit, 1 bolt, bit tight though
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Am i right in saying the problem is there even if the car isn't modded, but worse if there is more torque (through remap etc)? In that case looks like i'll need one too. Can anyone do a step by step on how to fit one of these? :embarassed:
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theres a fitting guide somewhere, but you do get disctructions with it, its not hard, my only problem is getting access to it
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guide here
http://www.ecstuning.com/stage/edoc/mk5insertinstructions.pdf
or this
http://www.neuspeed.com/data/installs/22.10.91.pdf
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guide here
http://www.ecstuning.com/stage/edoc/mk5insertinstructions.pdf
Thanks for that - see what you mean about access.
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guide here
http://www.ecstuning.com/stage/edoc/mk5insertinstructions.pdf
Thanks for that - see what you mean about access.
i.e getting under the car to get to the mount
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....Mine's a Neuspeed Torque Insert and was fitted by my VW dealer during a service session.
Why didn't VW fit something stronger as standard?
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Why didn't VW fit something stronger as standard?
cost probably :undecided:
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....Cost, yes. But it's such a small cost isn't it?
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....Cost, yes. But it's such a small cost isn't it?
indeed it. i can only guess that they might not have found a problem when developing the MKV :undecided:
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....Cost, yes. But it's such a small cost isn't it?
cost and comfort too though
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....Cost, yes. But it's such a small cost isn't it?
cost and comfort too though
....There's no loss of comfort whatsoever on my DSG GTI with Neuspeed Torque insert and less wheel-hop.
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others do say there is a bit more vibration though, not my words as i dont have one fitted so cant comment
even the adverts state "slight increase in ride harshess and engine vibration after installation"
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Not noticed any difference in my last 2 gti's
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others do say there is a bit more vibration though, not my words as i dont have one fitted so cant comment
even the adverts state "slight increase in ride harshess and engine vibration after installation"
....Perhaps my KoniFSD's help (long shot!!) - I don't know, but I really haven't felt any more vibration or harshness. My ride is very firm though :smiley:
I'm told that the dogbone will give a definite increase in vibration but when the engine is idling.
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either way im getting one, did we all use torque wrenches ?
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Hurdy, I cant see your APR one on the apr website? who sells them and how much as opposed to nuespeed & ecs,
thought - get a gb for the awesome r/r day ?
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I would to be sure, get one from screwfix for about £12 :wink: (torque wrench that is)
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Hurdy, I cant see your APR one on the apr website? who sells them and how much as opposed to nuespeed & ecs,
thought - get a gb for the awesome r/r day ?
Got mine for free at Awesome when the APR bods were there developing the stage 3+ map.
It said APR Australia on the one I had given me.
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....Hurdy! That wasn't an insert for your car they gave you, but an insert for your bum when you sh!t yourself with your car's performance!! :evil:
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Hurdy, I cant see your APR one on the apr website? who sells them and how much as opposed to nuespeed & ecs,
thought - get a gb for the awesome r/r day ?
Got mine for free at Awesome when the APR bods were there developing the stage 3+ map.
It said APR Australia on the one I had given me.
Found it!
http://www.goapr.com.au/products/engine_mount_insert.html
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....Hurdy! That wasn't an insert for your car they gave you, but an insert for your bum when you sh!t yourself with your car's performance!! :evil:
Yes, but it failed in that respect :embarassed: :laugh: