GolfGTIforum.co.uk
Model specific boards => Golf mk5 => Topic started by: NewGolf on 09 May 2008, 20:11
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Ok here goes a whinge!
Went out for a long drive today, after cleaning the car and doing some Vag Com bits for the boot opening from remote key. No error codes present.
Stuck in a line of traffic and getting fed up as a scooter thing was behind a hired car making it hard to overtake both at once. At last, a clear straight bit of road with no cars coming the other way I floored it in sport mode.
The car in front was doing about 15-25 mph, and even though I'd floored it, it just seemed to take forever to get past.
1st gear seems to rev out to the red line and possibly beyond, as if you were in a manual and had gone past the power band? If that makes any sense. Second came up and it went ok-ish after that but nothing to push you back in the seat. The car was light, only me and a front seat passenger in. 98RON Super Unleaded in and 14 degrees outside on the display.
I think some of my whinge is due to the fact I used to drive an S4 which if you wanted to ovetake and floored it from low RPM it would launch like a scalded cat! I may be missing the torque as I dont really want to have to rev the nuts out of a car to get some power out of it.
Ok so now its on 1000 miles or near as, and if I'm going to keep it then it has to improve powerwise asap! Its going to France soon to do about 2k miles so when it returns then it looks like a remaps 1st on the list.
Is a remap really noticable powerwise, especially torque as thats what I feel is lacking? I've seen the power graphs from Superchip$ but just want to know how you feel about yours. As I live away from mainland UK then it looks like it'll have to be a bluefin. I want to keep the car as OEM looking as possible so I doubt an exhaust will be on the list, but is there anything else I can do to get the power up higher?
Thinking back, I should have ordered the ED30, but the GTI felt ok at the time. :sad:
Especially if its as powerful as you ED30 owners keep harking on about! :wink:
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yes a remap makes a massive difference to a regular GTi, both in terms of torque and power. Its the torque which is really improved IMO, I had my last GTi APR remapped and it was brilliant loads of low down and midrange grunt, although it did run out off puff a little at the top end, but I put this down to the smaller KO3S turbo.
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your car needs a remap, its suffering from standarditis :laugh:
ps dont worry i thought the standard ed30 was slow coming from a remapped ST
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with only 1k miles on the clock you engine will still be tight so get that trip to france out of the way and I bet it'll feel far more lively.
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I think you are both right, its just not "pokey" enough!
Thanks guys its going to happen after my hols. The car will be a bit looser then as well as its going to get thrashed!
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I found this for a while in my ed30 (dsg), just seemed to run out of puff and felt flat but ive been making a point in getting it up to temp and having a good wee blast to loosen it up. It started getting better as the days went by but after a recent trip to knockhill on a track evening, i had 2 hours of uninterupted track hooning! (only 10 cars in total appeared) and it really has transformed although it still only has 2900miles on the clock it really does press on MUCH better!
As for remap being first on your list... First thing on my list is a brake upgrade :P , as big as they are standard they just dont last! :( Only downfall on the car i could find, lasted longer than i thought they would before fading mind you.
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I had a Bluefin map on my ED30 which I took off when it went in for the rear bumper to be sorted... I've yet to put to back on and it feels very sluggish and the fuel economy isn't as good.
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I would double check the DV valve, then go for a remap makes the car how it should be,
cant comment how an ED30 would be, but im more than happy with a mapped GTi goes fine for road use,
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Remapped GTI makes a nice difference and is very suited to the car I feel, Ed30 just gives that little bit more when remapped.
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There is a big difference obtained by remapping a standard GTi, I had mine done recently with a Revo Stage 1 and was very impressed.
Makes the car a lot more responsive, the torque improvement is the most noticeable.
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For a start am I right in understanding that the lack of power is experienced most in D-mode (DSG)? D-mode is not good for getting the best acceleration and overtaking - I used to pop her into S-mode for all overtakes. Even so, M-mode with the paddles (same as a Manual car) is best and gives the fastest and faultless gear shifts.
I think it wasn't until about 20,000 miles before I had a Revo Stage1 remap and that was after upgrading the brakes to AP Racing (absolutely faultless!). I've had occasion to switch between stock and remap (I always switch to stock for a service session) and there is a big difference mostly felt when overtaking. When accelerating very fast on overtakes there are the inevitable occasions when someone misjudges your speed or pulls out and you will be glad of the best brakes you can get. I've had to brake hard from all speeds including 130 mph (real on GPS not the inaccurate speedo) in Germany. Brakes are a mod which too many people overlook.
The GTI's standard brakes are good but simply don't compare with AP's. Pedal feel and response is streets ahead and stopping power (subject to road surface and tyre conditions) is truly awesome and without any snatching.
I have yet to drive either an Ed30 or a remapped Ed30 but a Stage1 GTI has plenty enough power for a FWD fast road car in my opinion.
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I agree when switching back stock I drive like I am in a different car and tend to just take easy as the difference is very noticable and so if you forget could be dangerous to a point.
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I want to keep the car as OEM looking as possible so I doubt an exhaust will be on the list, but is there anything else I can do to get the power up higher?
Thinking back, I should have ordered the ED30, but the GTI felt ok at the time. :sad:
Especially if its as powerful as you ED30 owners keep harking on about! :wink:
....A Milltek twin pipe exhaust will hardly be noticeable visually except to the enthusiast but a Hi-flow+Downpipe will definitely release the remap's potential and also improve throttle response.
In the hands of a skilled fast driver, my modded GTI is likely to 'beat' a stock Ed30 on all counts, even in the upper 100+ speed range. But, no, I'm not going to put it to the test!
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Thanks for the tips, the GTI's definately going to get a remap. I've emailed Superchip$ to see if they'll let me do a trial at my expense. No dealers over here.
The car was in Sport mode, I'm sure it revved too high before it changed gear, it seemed to hit a flat spot before it changed?
I miss TORQUE, gimme more!
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....The DSG is totally worth it for the stress-free urban and crawling traffic situations in D, but I would strongly advise everyone to stick her into M and use the paddles to drive her 'manually' in all other situations - You then have far greater control, literally at your fingertips!
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Mine is a manual and not an auto (im sorry, DSG) and 2nd gear certainly pushes me in my seat, mines on 29k.
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Mine is a manual and not an auto (im sorry, DSG) and 2nd gear certainly pushes me in my seat, mines on 29k.
Remapped AlanD?
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Nah standard, but Iv just (had the MK5 for a week) come from a MK4 so I'm still getting used to the extra power, might just be me.
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Ah, I see.
Coming from an S4 perhaps thats part of the reason I'm feeling the GTI a bit lacking.
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Well yeah, coming from a 4.2 V8 with 340BHP to a 2.0T with 200BHP, obviously the GTi is going to feel slower :sad:
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I have the standard,previous rides were 1.8T MKIV and 150PD MKIV.So I think the GTI has tons of power..But I definately see ppl,s points when they step down a level or two on the bhp.I can do things now I would never even think of doing in the other 2..Coming back on the autobahn I was amazed.
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At 70mph the S4 would cruise, with a lot of power available, at 1850rpm! Seriously!
At least the GTI drinks less.
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S4's probably a bit OTT for the channel islands, you'd struggle get out of 1st. Did some work in Guernsey last christmas for 2 weeks and the roads were very narrow and tight, anything more than a fiat panda is wasted :smiley: :smiley:
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Thats my home Island! Who were you working for? Next time you are over let me know and i'll buy you a beer.
Yesterday was a public holiday here, known as Liberation Day.
Details here. It explains a bit why we have many German built WW2 bunkers :wink:
http://www.thisisguernsey.com/entertainment/annual-events-2/liberation-day/
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Think they were called Anglo Normandy Airlines, part of the Aurigny group I think, had a good time, they really looked after us :smiley:
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I know them, well! Aurignys G-Joey, Britten-Norman BN-2A Mk3 Trislander if I'm not mistaken!
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I was workin on a Saab 340 doin a freight conversion, really enjoyed it, would go back 2 morra but I think the engineering side is in a bit of trouble financially.
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Hiya, Deffinately get the car mapped with a proper map!! Bluefins are good but they do not give as much gains as just having it mapped by a tuner like myself (not trying to plug). And throw the plastic DV away and get a forge or baileys DV. Then u r SORTED
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Hiya, Deffinately get the car mapped with a proper map!! Bluefins are good but they do not give as much gains as just having it mapped by a tuner like myself (not trying to plug). And throw the plastic DV away and get a forge or baileys DV. Then u r SORTED
nothing wrong with the standard dv, espicially as vw moddified the diaprahm a while back.
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Mines a standard GTI with 35k on the clock and it flies. 1st gear full foot down till 6500reves takes me upto around 35mph and then in 2nd gear full foot down right the way to 6500rpm it gets me to 80/85mph and then on and on...........
For me that is plenty of beans and the car does shift. I've had people complain that they get pushed back into their seats.
People are genuinely amazed how fast my car is when i take them for a spin :wink:
Sounds awesome aswell!
I think with these 2.0T engines you have to let them open up and i think they get better with mileage.
Wonder what mine would be like with an APR remap.... :evil:
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Only 1 way to find out
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Hiya, Deffinately get the car mapped with a proper map!! Bluefins are good but they do not give as much gains as just having it mapped by a tuner like myself (not trying to plug). And throw the plastic DV away and get a forge or baileys DV. Then u r SORTED
nothing wrong with the standard dv, espicially as vw moddified the diaprahm a while back.
....I don't agree. I personally know someone who has been through three different VW DV revisions and there have even been cases of failure in the latest front location. It's well known that the VW/VAG design doesn't allow for extra turbo boost. You might get lucky but upgrading to an aftermarket DV is definitely a proven preventative and it's good advice to recommend getting one on a remapped car. :cool:
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Totally agree, changin the DV for an aftermarket 1 is a good idea on remapped cars, just out of interest, I'm on a standard 1 for nearly 9000miles with 300+bhp, and when I checked it last week it was fine :smiley:, touch wood :smiley:
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....It's not guaranteed to fail, gaz, but changing it is just a sensible precaution. Another factor might be that the stock DV is better suited to the Ed30's K04 turbo - I don't know for sure.
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What would you recommend I change the standard on to, and can I do it myself?
I dont want to sound like a ricer with all that "Woosh" "Woosh" nonsense going on!
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....It's not guaranteed to fail, gaz, but changing it is just a sensible precaution. Another factor might be that the stock DV is better suited to the Ed30's K04 turbo - I don't know for sure.
I think its down to the location, on the regular GTi its bolted directly to the turbo so prone to gettin really hot, which suerly isn't good for a plastic component. Where as on the ED30 its remote from the turbo high up on the front of the engine behind the front grille which must be a much cooler place and maybe helping longevity
What would you recommend I change the standard on to, and can I do it myself?
I dont want to sound like a ricer with all that "Woosh" "Woosh" nonsense going on!
The forge item seems to be the 1 to go for, I had 1 on my regular GTi and it was fine, in fact joesgti is using it now. You can do it yourself if your handy with the spanners
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The Forge DV comes with pretty good fitting instructions. Bolting it on is the easy part, but you do have to pay attention when plumbing it in. Easily do-able yourself though.
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....The Forge DV is very awkward to access when in the GTI position with the K03 turbo buried down at the rear end of the engine bay. You need a proper lift/ramp.
Also, NewGolf, the Forge DV does not make any whooshing noises. You would have to fit an extra Forge component if you wanted that.
This is the Forge DV - Well designed and made - Guaranteed and fit 'n forget :-
(http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b308/RedRobin_05/ForgeDV.jpg)
And this is how you need access except when fitted at front as on the Ed30 :-
(http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b308/RedRobin_05/RED_Pipesunderside.jpg)
And this just because I like hot chicks who love German cars! :-
(http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b308/RedRobin_05/audichick-3.jpg)
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This is the Forge DV - Well designed and made - Guaranteed and fit 'n forget
Well not 100% true according to Forge.
"Unless you live in an especially dusty area I would say no more often than
yearly or around the 30k mark and that's just to be safe. If you like to
tinker then you might want to just check it's operation every other oil change
for a little bit unitl you get a feel for when it might show signs of being
contaminated. This varies not just because of the environment that you're in
but also because each car's pcv and air filters vary so much in condition
and effectiveness and this leads directly to entry into the vacuum hoses.
Just push up on the piston and block off the vac port, if the piston falls
more than about halfway or so or just gradually creeps down, then it needs
service. If it remains up and snaps shut after you release the vac port,
then all is well. If it requires service you generally just need to wipe it
out and replace the grease with some mobil one synthetic bearing grease or
equivalent. If the piston, body, or o-rings are damaged let us know and we
can get you replacements".
http://www.golfmkv.com/forums/showthread.php?s=df4dc49e616905bbf48cd45997b66e10&t=24106
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....Oooops!! That's not what they told me! But I had one of the first ten.
Thanks for this info!! :shocked:
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it does look a quality item when compared to the standard item, perhaps we need a group buy on these with fitting as part of the deal :wink:
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if the standard DV happened to split would it actually cause any damage to the turbo as the boost would still be released on failure I assume...? I'm thinking about just going with the remap for the time being and if it does eventually fail then get it replaced. I'd imagine the car would still be drivable even if it did split, although at a careful pace to your local tuners ..
Currently checking out JKM's tuning webpage, they do seem to offer some excellent packages, Stage 2 on a K04 looks promising (TBC atm) if stage 2 on the K03 is anything to go by.. :) DV upgrade included if one was to go down that route. Its a nice job to consider all the options...
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trint - Yes, you would lose power and it would be wise to drive like a granny to your tuner or VW dealer ASAP.
JKM (Jim) has done many of the performance mods on my GTI and I honestly cannot recommend them highly enough. It's a small family business of enthusiasts - They even run a Mk2 GTI for their staff to enjoy on track days! He's very honest and caring. They are both Revo and Bluefin agents and Revo reckon he is one of their very best. If I ever fit a Quaife diff, Jim will be the one I'll trust to do it and he won't take it on until he feels he's researched it for the Mk5 and is confident. He'll want to thoroughly test his work before he let's me have my car back - I'm just telling you this as an example.
Just tell him that Robin (VW05 RED) sent you and they'll be even more helpful I'm sure. He fitted my Forge DV. If he thinks you don't need something he'll tell you even if it's something he could sell you. At least, that has been my experience of JKM.
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to be honest red, I looked them up after reading a number of previous posts you've made about those various mods of yours (fair few and all good) ;). Performance Driven in torquay were also looking good with the APR remap... JKM look like favourites although I'd want to get a few more thousand miles under the belt first as I've just past 1k...
If i mention you at JKM does that mean a few mod points on the Red's JKM loyalty card :tongue: harhar
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....It's just goodwill and friendship for me. I don't get any commission and I know that they, especially sister Kate, are very proud of their good customer service record. If I thought they were lacking I would say so. I don't like Kim Collins at QST for example, nor Regal Motorsports.
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yeah apologies for that red, I was just pulling your arm. I really appreciate all whats been said about JKM especially as it gives you peace of mind on just how passionate they seem in getting the best of out their customers motors rather than just aim for profit. If only some stealerships took a leaf....
...right then, dilema-time on what stage to go for or should it be the quaife or big brake upgrade first..?? will just have to see what suits my driving better over the coming months me thinks.... :cool:
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....It's up to you of course, but I'd be more inclined to go for a remap and big brakes before considering a Quaife. The Quaife is only going to be an advantage when you are either driving enthusiastically through the twisties and roundabouts (also slightly but not hugely helpful in greasy road conditions) or if you are doing track days (where it will seriously shave lap times and also big brakes will save significant lap time if you keep it all smooooth).
If, for example, you go for a Revo Stage1 you can then see if you want a Stage2 and it will only cost about 50 squid to upgrade. BUT!!!!....To get the benefit of Stage2 you will definitely need a Hi-Flow/Turbo-back performance exhaust such as a Milltek and also an improved air intake such as a Carbonio (if you want to keep the stock engine cover etc.). Then you will want to improve the suspension...............It's a slippery slope!! Again, I would do the suspension before the Quaife - Big brakes and suspension mods all work together in the package.
There's no doubt in my mind that when your car starts accelerating faster due to a remap, brakes become more important. I'd rather have 100% reliable braking and not need it than need it and not have it. The stock brakes are very good but the AP's are everything that ALL the professionals and magazines say they are. You really have to take care that someone isn't too close behind you unless they have a performance car with equally serious braking power. AP's are like remapping your brakes to Stage3!!!
As I've reported many times, my VW dealer is exceptionally good and caring and even doesn't charge me for some small jobs. They know that I know a lot of people and say what I think! Rural businesses rely much more on word of mouth. :smiley:
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to be honest red, I hadn't even given the suspension a thought as I thought the chassis/struts on the golf were top notch when pressing on. But then I suppose when you're getting more out of the car with any number of mods I see how you're pushing the limits on standard.
This slippery slope looks like an exciting time (albeit expensive one especially with other hobbies/commitments). Being able to afford only one upgrade at a time may just let me appreciate what it brings to the party :) It looks as if you almost have all the mods going on your gti red
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I think the S4 is your biggest problem here, I have gone from a Gti to an R32 and now an S4, the S4 is in a different league power wise.
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....As you get more power to play with, you discover what parts of the car can be enhanced/improved. It's doing things like driving someone else's modded GTI (don't do it!! it's fatal!!) which doesn't help!! Acceleration, torque, brakes, suspension, are all part of the overall handling. I did my mods very slowly over a long time period and have enjoyed appreciating what each mod has brought.
This is the history so far of my sliding around on the slippery slope of modding :- http://www.golfgtiforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=76814.0 (http://www.golfgtiforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=76814.0) (it needs updating!!)
The Mk5 GTI is well known for its excellent chassis and has good suspension but any production car is manufactured to meet very varying international requirements and to a competitive cost in its market. Yes, VW could easily have used Jetta anti-roll bars or Brembo brakes but it would have cost more.
Cars like the Scooby and Evo are the only ones which come already fully modded (excluding Porsches and supercars etc).
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I think the S4 is your biggest problem here, I have gone from a Gti to an R32 and now an S4, the S4 is in a different league power wise.
I'd agree with that, I guess I'm missing all that torque! Not missing the fuel costs though!
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I think the S4 is your biggest problem here, I have gone from a Gti to an R32 and now an S4, the S4 is in a different league power wise.
Being a fwd I take it a suspension upgrade on the gti is probably one of the best extras in order to get the power down more effectively and limiting (to some extent) torque steer, various other steers etc...
...oh by the way red, I received a top email from Keith at JKM. He went into great detail regarding all the questions I asked so when it does come to future mods I think they will be gaining a customer :)
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....In my experience of the Mk5 GTI (not Ed30) it's all about how the TOTAL package of mods adds up and works together. Modding my suspension didn't solve all traction/grip issues but most definitely helped. Anti-roll bars (an extremly good value mod) not only help handling but also braking nose-dive is noticeably decreased - in fact, I'm not really aware of any nose-dive at all and even very high speed or emergency braking is very smooth (for the driver!). So, I very much agree with you, trint.
I was advised (by Ray West) to do all my suspension together - Shocks, Springs, ARB's - They all work together as a package and you get more benefits that way. I know that lowering and spacing looks seriously cool but it's not all it's cracked up to be for a fast ROAD car. Bilstein is the best if someone wants to get really serious about it and does plenty of track days.
Glad to hear that JKM were so helpful (but that's exactly why I recommended them so enthusiastically). I spoke to them quite a few times before going there several months later. :smiley: