GolfGTIforum.co.uk
Model specific boards => Golf mk5 => Topic started by: ukdub on 02 May 2008, 22:49
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Hello people
I have been a DUB head for many years and also a member of many forums. I have posted the below topic on the UKMKIV's forum with no reply. I think this is a big issue which hasn't had any response on that web site
Below is an exact copy of the UKMKIV's post.
Please read and take in
I have known about this for along time as I am sure so have many of you.
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3754451
Awesomegti's demo car has just had it's cam changed under warranty as they inspected the cam lobe before fitting APR's High pressure fuel pump as it showed excessive wear. All this in less than 20k.
Some cars in America have gone in 10k.
I think this is going to be a big big issue. So give your local dealer a ring and show them the TSB in the link above, as the dealer who replaced Awesome's cam had no idea about the issue.
At this time it doesn't seem to affect the early GTI engines AXX engine code. (American's never got this engine code, only the BPY )
Could be very pricey out of warranty to replace.
Please search on the American sites about cam lobe wear as the above link doesn't show or tell a long long story.
www.vwvortex.com
www.golfmkv.com
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Whats a cam lobe? :shocked:
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Sorry
The cam lode in question is the one that 'drives' the high pressure fuel pump. There was a bad batch of cams that VW used in the BPY engine code GTI engine. Not all BPY engine codes are affected but many are. This is a 1k plus fix at least. Some of you guys could only do 7k a year. 3 years and 21k on the clock you are out of warranty, could be a big bill that could be spent else where.
EDIT
The link in the first post seems to be dead
Please read the installation instructions for the APR high pressure fuel pump. This pump in NO way is at fault for the cam lobe wear.
http://www.goapr.com/Audi/support/fsi_fuelpump_installation.pdf
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Ah i see, *nods and smiles*, so if my engine code isn't BPY im fine?
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From what I understand its not just the cam at fault, the bucket that the fuel pump shaft sits in which rubs against the cam can also wear causing the same type of damage on later 2 piece cams, so I think this needs to be checked periodically to.
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From what I understand its not just the cam at fault, the bucket that the fuel pump shaft sits in which rubs against the cam can also wear causing the same type of damage on later 2 piece cams, so I think this needs to be checked periodically to.
Hello Garry, this is where you hang out now.
Jim at Awesome is going to offer an inspection of the cam lobe as an extra to a normal service. As Gaz says it is a cam lobe follower as well that is also part but not all of the problem, but problem non the less. Many people say that the after market HPFP(HIGH PRESSURE FUEL PUMP) makes the cam follower fail faster with the bad cam. That is a £20 part and 1/2 hour to change. Glad to see the new 2.0t has a different design where the high pressure fuel pump is driven off the exhaust cam with 4 lobes on the cam and not 3 off the inlet cam as in on the AXX and BPY engine
Should add that the bad cam causes the excessive wear on the cam lobe on the standard high presure fuel pump NOT the cam follower. The aftermarket HPFP could cause quicker wear on the follower but by much. It is my guess and guess alone that the ED30 engine is fine as VW/AUDI have known about this for a long time.
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Ah i see, *nods and smiles*, so if my engine code isn't BPY im fine?
So far so it seems. I am AXX engine code with 60k with no problems running APR stage 2 for over 40k. Still a worry though as I am out of warranty.
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we did discuss something similar here http://www.golfgtiforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=83066.0
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Hi Gary,
Did Awesome say anything about any lobe or bucket wear on your car when it went in for the fuel pump mod?
Did they swap out the lobe as they said they might or was all okay?
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How/where do you find out your engine code guys please :smiley:
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In uk cars it is in the service schedule book. There is a label inside the front cover and it will tell you the model, the power output and the engine version under each other. It is also found on the V5 document in the engine section :nerd:
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Thanks Hurdy, mines not a BPY :grin:
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They just checked the bucket and it was fine :smiley:
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Be useful to get the US VW TSB link up - anyone downloaded a copy ?
Cass
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Be useful to get the US VW TSB link up - anyone downloaded a copy ?
Cass
Would be good. Don't know why the first link from vwvortex is dead. The VW TSB is the same as the one on the APR link for the Audi but quoting VW cars affected.
It was the Golf, Jetta and Eos all with BPY engine code and saying that all VIN numbers are affected.
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From what I understand all engine codes can suffer the pump bucket wear which can if left un-checked cause severe damage to the cam lobe driving it
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From what I understand all engine codes can suffer the pump bucket wear which can if left un-checked cause severe damage to the cam lobe driving it
Your right Garry, and everyones cam follower (bucket) should be checked for wear. The cam lobe issue isn't a £20 fix which the follower is. A cam shouldn't wear out in 10K - 20K miles. There is a possibility that the BPY engine codes Cam can. If it was just the follower that wears out in that mile range, we could all grumble and moan about it, but it is a bigger issue than people think.
Awesome's GTI cam failed at 20k to 25k miles. Some cars in America failed long before this on standard engines and maps. So, put it like this. I am Joe Blogs who does 7k to 8k miles a year. In 3 years I have done 21k to 26k miles and out of warranty. Then I need a new Cam. This is not a cheap fix. Get your BPY engine code GTI's checked, the worst that could happen is you need a new cam under warranty.
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So from this if your an AXX engine code then its likely the cam is ok but worth checking the follower anyway...
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So from this if your an AXX engine code then its likely the cam is ok but worth checking the follower anyway...
Yes I would say so, just for piece of mind. I am coming up for 62K which is my next service, so I will get Awesome to check and replace the follower as it is only a £20 part. VW have changed the design of the new 2.0t engine with regards to the high pressure fuel pump and cam and follower, so this tells me that this an improvement over our engines design.
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So what concerns would you expect if your have an AXX engine and looking at the HPFP upgrade - APR/Autotech
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so if this cam is on the camshaft, could it be that the noisey tappet sounding engine that some peeps complain of, it this cam rattling around at low speeds??? its in that area and could make the same sound. Same as the old sounding CVH engines in the ford escorts with hydralic valve lifters that sounded tappity when worn or the engine oil needed changing.
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I think the tapping people hear on this engine is just 'normal'
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Copy of file as requested being as I saved it when it was available...
VW TSB on CAM Lobe Wear (http://homepage.ntlworld.com/neil.gibbs3/images/gti/VW_TSB_Cam_Wear.pdf)
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Copy of file as requested being as I saved it when it was available...
VW TSB on CAM Lobe Wear (http://homepage.ntlworld.com/neil.gibbs3/images/gti/VW_TSB_Cam_Wear.pdf)
Thanks :smiley:
Cass
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So what concerns would you expect if your have an AXX engine and looking at the HPFP upgrade - APR/Autotech
As I believe the AXX engine cam lobe to be fine, I would say that just faster cam follower wear. As will be the case with any make of HPFP due to the fact the pumps run with a higher than standard spring pressure.
This is a quote from APR's site
ROUTINE FUEL PUMP INSPECTION
On a periodic basis, around every ten thousand (10,000) miles, APR
recommends that you inspect the FSI fuel pump, cam follower, and camshaft in
accordance with the factory TSB for abnormal wear. If any wear appears to have
worn through the black wear coating on the cam follower, we recommend that
you replace the cam follower. Once this black coating is worn off, the wear rate
of the cam follower and lobe is dramatically increased. Keeping a good cam
follower in the car is critical to the long term operation of your vehicle.
The cam follower and camshaft wear rates on even stock vehicles appears to be
increased over what even VW/Audi has anticipated. We predict that VW/Audi will
either supersede these components to increase their longevity or they will begin
to include this inspection as a part of the routine maintenance of the vehicle.
We also highly recommend on any modified car an increased oil service interval.
Be sure to use oil that is VW 502 00 specification approved, and change the oil
on a regular basis, preferably every three to five thousand (3000-5000) miles.
I personally took my car off the Longlife service about 40k ago, and now change my oil every 7k using Mobile 1 0w-40.
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My engine is BYD, Is it just the bpy engines effected???
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how do you find your engine type
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ignore, just found it on the front of my service book, mine isnt a BPY either
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Hey there
Our Gti is a 2006 model from South Africa. Is this problem only an American/ Uk problem or should I be checking our engine type number thing too?
And I sound stupid but can someone please post up a pic of this number thing that is in the handbook. I called my mom to look and she cant find it.... :lipsrsealed:
Mike
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its number 3 on the list in the front of your service book (should be a sticker)
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y8/182_blue/DSCF0353.jpg)
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Thank You blue.
I emailed VW Cape Town and referred them to this thread and asked a few questions.