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Model specific boards => Golf mk5 => Topic started by: Vtec Abuser on 28 April 2008, 14:34

Title: Best panel filter..
Post by: Vtec Abuser on 28 April 2008, 14:34
What panel filters are you guys using or would you recommend?
Not bothering with the Carbonio, just not a fan of induction kits as not bothered by the sound (MIlltek is sufficient for that) and it seems that they lose a few bhp if anything..  :shocked: So just going to stick with the panel one I think, just which one?
Title: Re: Best panel filter..
Post by: Greenouse on 28 April 2008, 14:37
What panel filters are you guys using or would you recommend?
Not bothering with the Carbonio, just not a fan of induction kits as not bothered by the sound (MIlltek is sufficient for that) and it seems that they lose a few bhp if anything..  :shocked: So just going to stick with the panel one I think, just which one?

Depends on your budget I suppose VTEC. I've had a K&N in my last two GTI's and I can tell the difference when i drove a 'stock' car. Im sure Red Robin has an expensive racing panel filter?
Title: Re: Best panel filter..
Post by: Vtec Abuser on 28 April 2008, 14:58
Aren't the K&N ones oiled though?
Title: Re: Best panel filter..
Post by: Greenouse on 28 April 2008, 15:03
Nope!
Title: Re: Best panel filter..
Post by: Greenouse on 28 April 2008, 15:17
Nope!

I say no, there pre oiled at the production stage as far as Im aware, but you do not need to re-oil unless it get's very dirty over a long period of time.
Title: Re: Best panel filter..
Post by: Manu_R32 on 28 April 2008, 15:28
Are the panel filters the ones that sell for £28 on awesome gti?? I want one for my R32 but not sure how it works or what changes it would make :S
Title: Re: Best panel filter..
Post by: joesgti on 28 April 2008, 15:29
What panel filters are you guys using or would you recommend?
Not bothering with the Carbonio, just not a fan of induction kits as not bothered by the sound (MIlltek is sufficient for that) and it seems that they lose a few bhp if anything..  :shocked: So just going to stick with the panel one I think, just which one?

if you knew anything about carbonio then you would know its not an "induction kit", it barely makes any difference in noise and has proven results in bhp gains, just the other week i saw a std gti ed30 with carbonio run 255bhp, the front carbon fiber intake forces more air into the engine as there is no hole in the back for air to escape, you really should look into carbonio as its clearly the fravorit choice for most forum members, the panel filter you get with the carbonio is piperX. also the carbonio looks soooooo sexy under the hood.  :drool: :smiley:
Title: Re: Best panel filter..
Post by: Vtec Abuser on 28 April 2008, 15:34
Yes mate I know, I meant CAI, not induction kit, oops  :embarassed:
I saw that ED30 get 255bhp with the Carbonio on it. But on the same day, the standard ED30 that ran got 259bhp.. That's why I have slight concerns.. Plus the chap who organised the RR day on sat off SCN has a Mk2 Cupra and he ran it on the same rollers a few months back and it got 262bhp. he ran it again on sat with the Carbonio added and it got 257bhp. Not enough to say it's the Carbonio's fault I know, but it doesn't make me want to rush out and buy one.. :undecided:
Title: Re: Best panel filter..
Post by: SteveS on 28 April 2008, 15:35
well it cant make it anyworse! only better or nothing...
Title: Re: Best panel filter..
Post by: 182_blue on 28 April 2008, 15:46
i have heard of losses with kits fitted too, its put me off getting one, as for the panel filters, in my experience they dont give any gains either
Title: Re: Best panel filter..
Post by: Greenouse on 28 April 2008, 16:09
Surely anything that helps the engine breath easier is good? Gains or no gains........
Title: Re: Best panel filter..
Post by: joesgti on 28 April 2008, 16:09
there is no way AT ALL you can loose power unless some idiot has fitted it incorrectly. i have had advice from very experienced technicians at awesome and they recomended this kit, i also went through a full diagnostics about 2 weeks ago and asked if i may be loosing power through the carbonio, the tech looked it over and said "impossible." good enough answer for me to keep it  :smiley:
Title: Re: Best panel filter..
Post by: Vtec Abuser on 28 April 2008, 16:49
As I said mate, i'm not pointing the finger and saying that they do loose power. But from what i've seen, i'm not over impressed.. The chap who pulled 324bhp and 394lbft in his Mk2 Cupra also tried the Carbonio and didn't get on with it and changed it for a Dbilas and thinks it's a big improvement (just twice the price nearly  :sad:)
Plus you can loose power through Induction kits/CAI. I for one have experience from this when I fitted a Ram Air one on my LCR. I lost a good 10-15bhp for some reason.
Title: Re: Best panel filter..
Post by: The Wheel Man on 28 April 2008, 17:28
I seem to remember a product test in Chav power or some other 'youf' magazine many moons ago testing filters and intake systems.  Most made small gains 1/2 BHP but i think it was a K&N Viper kit lost power 5/10 BHP from memory.  :shocked:

Im with Vtec on this one, i feel that they SHOULD make gains but have read and felt losses or no gain.  For £Â£Ã‚£ that a Carbonio costs, seems more like the looks that power........
Title: Re: Best panel filter..
Post by: SteveS on 28 April 2008, 17:34
i can understand induction kits losing, because they mostly pull in hot air. if there located in the engine bay with just some small tube in for cold.
Title: Re: Best panel filter..
Post by: RedRobin on 28 April 2008, 18:18
Im sure Red Robin has an expensive racing panel filter?

....Yep. No maintenance, guaranteed for life, ITG.

The Carbonio is far more efficient than the standard ram intake - It's much deeper with a greater volume and has no baffles etc inside and ALL the air goes directly to the filter. The greater volume builds more air pressure too, I'm given to understand.

The Carbonio ships with a Pipercross panel filter. I now have an ITG Competition filter.

I'd have to conduct quite scientific tests to tell you what any improvements are, and you know what the placebo effects are!

My Carbonio intake came with a PiperCross panel filter and someone I know with a Mk5 GTI, who is a highly qualified engineer and whose opinion I respect, told me ITG were the best. The ITG filter is certainly of very robust multilayered construction and fits the 'box' very tightly, so sealing is good - Better quality than the PiperCross which in turn is much better than the standard 'paper' panel. Extremely low maintenance was also a factor in my decision - No additional oiling is ever needed and just an occasional dust off. Also a lifetime warranty.

Don't forget that the VW standard filter gets thrown away and replaced every ?,000 miles when servicing - What does that tell you?

The ITG Pro-filter utilizes the same three layer reticulated polyester foam used on the MAXOGEN air filters. Unlike some of the competition, ITG filters have a massive dust load-up tolerance, which is the ability to absorb a large amount of dust without reducing air flow capacity. With the standard K03 turbo I wouldn't like to say that any performance gains are appreciable without proper scientific testing. However, the manufacturers claim about +2 bhp is possible.

It's also MAF-friendly! And probably more benefit to a remapped car.

If you plan on keeping your car, as I do, then it'll quickly pay for itself by not needing to replace it - 60 squid well spent imo.

(http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m67/eurosporthz/ITG2-1.jpg)
Title: Re: Best panel filter..
Post by: Vtec Abuser on 28 April 2008, 22:30
Nice write up Red.. I've practically got my cheque book out.. Ha.
Going to have a serious look at that.  :wink:
Title: Re: Best panel filter..
Post by: k4ith on 28 April 2008, 22:40
another forum member put me onto this ebay seller from the states.For all intense and purp it looks like a Carbonio but its way cheaper, i got mine(minus filter) for £57 excl delivery @ £42.Is it from the people that make them for carbonio or a cheap knock off, only time will tell.But i am willing to give it a go.going to try some before and after vag-com results with air mass thingmy jig.
(http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e170/b44fy/0e1d_1.jpg)
Title: Re: Best panel filter..
Post by: Kiddfrost on 28 April 2008, 22:45
I was wondering which flowed more air in situ, k&n panel or standard paper filter so I decided to carry out some tests with vagcom.
First I carried out a few runs with the standard filter (all runs 3rd gear wot to 6.5krpm) to measure the air intake mass. The standard filter showed a maximum air intake mass of 212.
After changing to the k&n (20 mins later) I carried out some more runs, I was showing a maximum AI mass of 188. The k&n was definately flowing less air than the standard panel. I reset the adaptation values and ran the car for a couple of weeks with the k&n installed. After 2 weeks of adaptation I carried out a few runs. The k&n now showed a maximum AI mass of 205. My conclusion on the technical side is the standard filter flows slightly more air than the k&n panel on a gti with revo.
When driving the car, the k&n does appear to give a slightly better throttle response. Performance wise, I found there was no difference between the 2 filters. This was concluded by a less technical test. On a set piece of road i can get to 130 (kmph of course). This was no different no matter which filter was in the car.
The k&n is still in the car, the reasons, I feel it gives a slightly better throttle response and I cant be arsed to take it out.
It would be interesting to try this with an ITG panel.
Hope this is of some use..
Title: Re: Best panel filter..
Post by: Rob-MK5 on 28 April 2008, 22:47
K4ith have you got the link again please,

I had a Gruppe M on an old Integra, worked a treat no heat soak, enclosed cone filter.

Not cheap at £550 though  :cry:

(http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j146/robintegra/Engine.jpg)
Title: Re: Best panel filter..
Post by: Rob-MK5 on 28 April 2008, 23:02
Yum they do one for Mk5, £857  :shocked:

http://www.gruppem.co.jp/application/ram_en/ram_photo/fri-0188.htm

(http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j146/robintegra/jetta_0188.jpg)
Title: Re: Best panel filter..
Post by: RedRobin on 28 April 2008, 23:31
....Yikes!!!! £857???? That's ridiculous! GruppeM have an excellent reputation though.

I forgot to mention that throttle response is definitely noticeably improved with the Carbonio. They also claim torque gains but I don't know for certain.

Often with an air filter/intake mod it's a question of how the whole package improves - How it works with the exhaust etc.
Title: Re: Best panel filter..
Post by: john_o on 28 April 2008, 23:47
£857 for a few clips , a cone filter and a piece of shaped CF.
Other GruppeM kits seem to be worth it but not this one!

I agree with you on the Carbonio as regards actual bhp gains (mine was the std ED30 that ran 259)
but if you like the looks + CF then its the one  :wink:
Title: Re: Best panel filter..
Post by: 182_blue on 29 April 2008, 07:34
....Yikes!!!! £857???? That's ridiculous! GruppeM have an excellent reputation though.

I forgot to mention that throttle response is definitely noticeably improved with the Carbonio. They also claim torque gains but I don't know for certain.

Often with an air filter/intake mod it's a question of how the whole package improves - How it works with the exhaust etc.

 :shocked: :shocked: :shocked: :shocked:
Title: Re: Best panel filter..
Post by: Greenouse on 29 April 2008, 10:48
another forum member put me onto this ebay seller from the states.For all intense and purp it looks like a Carbonio but its way cheaper, i got mine(minus filter) for £57 excl delivery @ £42.Is it from the people that make them for carbonio or a cheap knock off, only time will tell.But i am willing to give it a go.going to try some before and after vag-com results with air mass thingmy jig.
(http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e170/b44fy/0e1d_1.jpg)

Glad you got yours K4ith. Have you managed to fit it as yet? Mine was a piece of pi** to fit. Was expectin a nightmare too  :grin:

A bit of a bargain I thought, and it looks fab  :wink:
Title: Re: Best panel filter..
Post by: k4ith on 29 April 2008, 12:20
Greenouse not got it yet as the seller was on hols, posted yesterday and he marked it as a gift so hopefully wont get vat added :wink:thanks for posting the link earlier to me.
here's the link for the one i bought Rob. you can make offers too i bid $115 and got it so try a bit under, you only 3 offers then they bar you from bidding on that 1 item.
Title: Re: Best panel filter..
Post by: Greenouse on 29 April 2008, 12:24
Greenouse not got it yet as the seller was on hols, posted yesterday and he marked it as a gift so hopefully wont get vat added :wink:thanks for posting the link earlier to me.
here's the link for the one i bought Rob. you can make offers too i bid $115 and got it so try a bit under, you only 3 offers then they bar you from bidding on that 1 item.

I got stung for import duty!! From memory cost me another £34  :sad: Still a bargain though  :grin:
Title: Re: Best panel filter..
Post by: wyliecoyote on 29 April 2008, 20:24
Where is the link or have I gone blind? :laugh:

Can you post the link again please, that kit looks great :smiley:

Cheers

Greenouse not got it yet as the seller was on hols, posted yesterday and he marked it as a gift so hopefully wont get vat added :wink:thanks for posting the link earlier to me.
here's the link for the one i bought Rob. you can make offers too i bid $115 and got it so try a bit under, you only 3 offers then they bar you from bidding on that 1 item.
Title: Re: Best panel filter..
Post by: Greenouse on 29 April 2008, 20:29
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=003&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWN%3AIT&viewitem=&item=130156687445&rd=1

There you go bud  :smiley:
Title: Re: Best panel filter..
Post by: wyliecoyote on 29 April 2008, 20:38
Cheers, :cool:

Good find that guys. I see they do the kit without the K&N filter so I could combine it with the ITG filter?

I think you've found my Ed30's first mod :rolleyes: It should fit?
Title: Re: Best panel filter..
Post by: Greenouse on 29 April 2008, 21:29
Yeh it deffo fits!

(http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk284/Greenouse/2008_0405Image0001.jpg)  :smug:
Title: Re: Best panel filter..
Post by: 182_blue on 29 April 2008, 21:50
Yeh it deffo fits!

(http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk284/Greenouse/2008_0405Image0001.jpg)  :smug:

does look good that
Title: Re: Best panel filter..
Post by: k4ith on 29 April 2008, 21:51
 :grin: sorry guys forgot to add the link.
I bought the one without the filter, one of a few parcels winging its way to my door :smiley:
Title: Re: Best panel filter..
Post by: gazbutmk5gti on 29 April 2008, 22:13
Its deffo carbonio without the badge or a good copy made from 1, its exactly the same, if I'd seen it before I bought mine I'd buy 1. I've got a couple of spare carbonio stickers if you want to really take the p:ss out of us :laugh:
Title: Re: Best panel filter..
Post by: T88OMM on 29 April 2008, 23:30
I think that a Carbonio is more beneficial when it is used on a car that has been mapped. Mine was ED30 that did 255 with the Carbonio everything else being standard, after I fitted it I noticed slightly better throttle response but only minimal. I expect it to help more when the car is mapped  :smiley:
Title: Re: Best panel filter..
Post by: Vtec Abuser on 29 April 2008, 23:52
Well get it done than mate.. Then we'll be like twins.. Ha   :smiley:
Title: Re: Best panel filter..
Post by: Greenouse on 30 April 2008, 08:57
Its deffo carbonio without the badge or a good copy made from 1, its exactly the same, if I'd seen it before I bought mine I'd buy 1. I've got a couple of spare carbonio stickers if you want to really take the p:ss out of us :laugh:

Ha Ha Ha  :grin: Yeh go on then Gaz, I'll post a pic up once Iv'e stuck it on  :grin:
Title: Re: Best panel filter..
Post by: neg on 30 April 2008, 09:01
Agree with Gaz, looks identicle and I dont think you can tell the difference ... great find.
Title: Re: Best panel filter..
Post by: T88OMM on 30 April 2008, 10:43
Well get it done than mate.. Then we'll be like twins.. Ha   :smiley:

I am deffo gonna have it done in time for the Awesome RR Day. We will see how mine and yours compare as they are almost identical only difference I will be going for an APR map not Revo.  :smiley:
Title: Re: Best panel filter..
Post by: joesgti on 30 April 2008, 11:13
those kits look good!! are they carbon fiber or carbon fiber affect?? for that price its a good fine  :smiley:
Title: Re: Best panel filter..
Post by: Vtec Abuser on 30 April 2008, 11:24
Well get it done than mate.. Then we'll be like twins.. Ha   :smiley:

I am deffo gonna have it done in time for the Awesome RR Day. We will see how mine and yours compare as they are almost identical only difference I will be going for an APR map not Revo.  :smiley:
Look forward to it mate..  :wink:
You 3 or 5 door?
Title: Re: Best panel filter..
Post by: Greenouse on 30 April 2008, 11:50
It's light enough, and looks like CF to me  :smiley: