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General => The garage => Topic started by: dandubgti on 26 April 2008, 10:34

Title: getting more oversteer out of my vr6
Post by: dandubgti on 26 April 2008, 10:34
is there anyway to dial in more lift-off oversteer into my vr6 's hadling , its got a set of supersport coilovers on it which in my opinion are rubbish ! although they make the car adjusable under braking , its still a bit neutral going into a corner . ive got toyo t1 tyres which help.

Would a decent set of coilovers and uprated anti roll bars help or am i gonna have to get adjstable top mounts for added camber ?

thanks.

Title: Re: getting more oversteer out of my vr6
Post by: VeeDubGTI16v on 26 April 2008, 15:48
dont you want the handling to be neutral? if you want to get the back end out your driving the wrong car!
Title: Re: getting more oversteer out of my vr6
Post by: Andy! on 26 April 2008, 17:28
Sounds like a soon to be dead VR (and owner) to me!
Title: Re: getting more oversteer out of my vr6
Post by: Uruk Hai on 26 April 2008, 18:08
Whats the point of upgrading all the suspension components if you want it to handle worse  :undecided:
Title: Re: getting more oversteer out of my vr6
Post by: dandubgti on 26 April 2008, 19:44
how is having a car thats adjusable on the limit wrong ? all the best fwd cars overteer, it makes it involving .

My mk3 seems to be pretty neutral with a tad of push on understter mid corner , id like it to be a little more active if you understand where im comming from  Not dangerous in the slightest , if you watch touring cars etc they turn in and the back end is sliding but under control . its how i like my cars to handle .   
Title: Re: getting more oversteer out of my vr6
Post by: bored_Welsh_lad on 27 April 2008, 10:18
Get some cheap tyres on the rear lol.. mine loved to oversteer...
Title: Re: getting more oversteer out of my vr6
Post by: VeeDubGTI16v on 27 April 2008, 10:36
mcdonalds trays under rear wheels  :wink:
Title: Re: getting more oversteer out of my vr6
Post by: bored_Welsh_lad on 27 April 2008, 10:45
Ohh yes... how fun did that used to be!! haha
Title: Re: getting more oversteer out of my vr6
Post by: sesterfield on 27 April 2008, 12:15
how is having a car thats adjusable on the limit wrong ? all the best fwd cars overteer, it makes it involving .

My mk3 seems to be pretty neutral with a tad of push on understter mid corner , id like it to be a little more active if you understand where im comming from  Not dangerous in the slightest , if you watch touring cars etc they turn in and the back end is sliding but under control . its how i like my cars to handle .   

Lift off oversteer is much more unstable than power oversteer, and besides which is much slower than just taking the corner properley in the first place  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: getting more oversteer out of my vr6
Post by: Ben Lessani on 27 April 2008, 15:27
Sounds mental - someone who *wants* oversteer on a FWD car! Whatever floats your boat I suppose.

...just aslong as you don't live in Glasgow or Manchester - I'm safe.
Title: Re: getting more oversteer out of my vr6
Post by: Stu.750 on 27 April 2008, 16:22
stiffen the front a touch , soften the rear  swap the front tyres for the back ones run a touch higher pressure ,

 And get yourself out on some track days and get tuition you carry on like that on the roads and someone will get hurt 

 *EDIT*
 

      Your driving a car with a massively overweighted engine on the front of it , not matter how much you try the lump of pig irion in the front will dictate where the car is goin 

 My advice - Go buy a 205 gti for FWD oversteer fun
Title: Re: getting more oversteer out of my vr6
Post by: hobbiniho on 27 April 2008, 17:48
lift off oversteer is what killed my last car an audi coupe  :cry: :cry:
Title: Re: getting more oversteer out of my vr6
Post by: mk2mark on 28 April 2008, 11:05
2 points. Oversteer isnt oversteer. It can be progressive ("good") or snappy (bad), or anywhere in between. You're not going to get progressive oversteer on that car. There's way more to it than that, but that's as much as you need to know.

2nd point. If you're asking a question like that what you need to learn is not how you can get more oversteer, but more like suspension geometry fundamentals. Get a book off amazon, you'll enjoy it.
Title: Re: getting more oversteer out of my vr6
Post by: Horney on 28 April 2008, 11:13
Lift off oversteer is much more unstable than power oversteer, and besides which is much slower than just taking the corner properley in the first place  :rolleyes:

Not actually true in every case. John "Smokey" Rhodes pioneered lift off oversteer in British Touring in minis back in the 60's. He found controlled lift off oversteer allowed him to scrub off speed and corner faster than using the more traditional methods of brake, turn in, hit apex, accelerate out.

Not many pics on the net of that era but here's the man himself showing where he got his nickname from.

(http://www.brdc.co.uk/image_archive/rhodes-1.jpg)

Nick
Title: Re: getting more oversteer out of my vr6
Post by: Uruk Hai on 28 April 2008, 12:02
I agree with what your saying but you cant realy compare a Mini being driven by a pro driver and on a track to MK3 Golf being driven by a "normal" driver on the road, it only takes one mistake or miss-judgement   :undecided:
Title: Re: getting more oversteer out of my vr6
Post by: Horney on 28 April 2008, 12:06
I agree with what your saying but you cant realy compare a Mini being driven by a pro driver and on a track to MK3 Golf being driven by a "normal" driver on the road, it only takes one mistake or miss-judgement   :undecided:

You're right, I was just commenting on the physical aspects. I learn't to control lift off oversteer when I had my minis and have found that experience ha sllowed me to carry it over to other cars. Was pretty easy in the MKII, nice and contolable. Tried it in my gran's fiesta and it was not fun at all. Not tried the passat and I have a feeling it may well be impossible unless it's a wet day.*

Nick

* I do not in anyway condone the use of these techniques on public roads, wet carparks are where it's at!
Title: Re: getting more oversteer out of my vr6
Post by: sesterfield on 28 April 2008, 13:08
Lift off oversteer is much more unstable than power oversteer, and besides which is much slower than just taking the corner properley in the first place  :rolleyes:

Not actually true in every case. John "Smokey" Rhodes pioneered lift off oversteer in British Touring in minis back in the 60's. He found controlled lift off oversteer allowed him to scrub off speed and corner faster than using the more traditional methods of brake, turn in, hit apex, accelerate out.


As the other guy said, there's a big difference between a 60s mini and a vr6!  I doubt it's doing much for his tyres either!
Title: Re: getting more oversteer out of my vr6
Post by: Len on 28 April 2008, 13:17
Nutcase!

My advice to you mate is learn how to drive your vr6 smoothly! You will get around a bend much faster than trying to get the back end out!
Title: Re: getting more oversteer out of my vr6
Post by: Diamond Hell on 30 April 2008, 09:33
Bloody hell and I thought I was a little judgemental from time to time.

All the guy's asked is how he can adjust how his car handles, which is a fairly reasonable question to ask on a motoring forum.

He's not asking you to make judgements about his driving skill, or behaviour on roads or tracks.

The biggest problem, as already outlined, is the pig-iron out front - you've got the wrong car for it to handle well.  It's designed to sit on der Autobahn really.

Fit a stiffer rear ARB and see how you go, but really get a car renowned for handling rather than one that's infamous for not handling (yes, that's me judging your choice of car, rather than your driving).
Title: Re: getting more oversteer out of my vr6
Post by: Khare on 30 April 2008, 16:12
mcdonalds trays under rear wheels  :wink:

 :grin: :grin: :grin: nice one!

Why would you want oversteer? slightest oversteer and the blue lights come on. Just go to a car park on a wet day and go mental. Dont do it on the road.
Title: Re: getting more oversteer out of my vr6
Post by: Diamond Hell on 30 April 2008, 20:29
Quote
slightest oversteer and the blue lights come on.

Eh?

I must be doing it wrong, cos I can get quite sideways in a controlled manner without any issues - I've no idea why your high-beam indicator is coming on during lift-off oversteer - you probably have some electrics that need sorting out.
Title: Re: getting more oversteer out of my vr6
Post by: Mooby on 01 May 2008, 11:59
Wet leaves, crap tyres on the back.  That's what I found to be 'helpful' when I very nearly killed myself a while ago (I thought I remembered this little lane as being quite straight, only to find someone had plonked a very vicious bend in it)

Before I put Toyo T1-Rs on the thing lift-off oversteer was what I tended to get if I wasn't careful, but that once was bloody frightening!  By the time I realised I was going too quick it was far too late to brake, but with a bit of instinct and probably a HUGE amount of luck I managed to control it and merely go sideways without meeting a tree (of which there were many).   After the Toyos, I never went sideways ever again (though I only drove it around with them on for a couple of months or so, I've just sold it  :sad:)

Well, at least if you want oversteer, you'll go sideways or backwards into a tree, so someone will be able to get a good condition VR6 engine from your wreck :wink:
Title: Re: getting more oversteer out of my vr6
Post by: Len on 01 May 2008, 12:54
It is stupid to deliberately set up a car's suspension to be able to induce oversteer!
On an autotest car maybe but a road car NO!
It is also entirely irresponsible to try to do this on the road endangering others!

Smooth, measured driving will get you through a corner faster than throwing the tail out!
Title: Re: getting more oversteer out of my vr6
Post by: Khare on 01 May 2008, 23:02
Quote
slightest oversteer and the blue lights come on.

Eh?

I must be doing it wrong, cos I can get quite sideways in a controlled manner without any issues - I've no idea why your high-beam indicator is coming on during lift-off oversteer - you probably have some electrics that need sorting out.
:laugh:
no silly!!
My point is, if your caught doing any stunts, no matter how good you are. police will classify it as dangeroous driving and they will give you some points to go along with it.