GolfGTIforum.co.uk
Model specific boards => Golf mk5 => Topic started by: NewGolf on 25 April 2008, 18:27
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Did you guys know that the Stig did laps of the Top Gear circuit, in the W12 and the R32, with these results;
Volkswagen Golf W12 GTI 1.29.6
Volkswagen Golf R32 1.30.4
Not much difference for all that power, just shows you what a good car the R32 is and how it gets its power down!
The R32 is quicker than my old S4, and that had 344Bhp! The S4 sounded fantastic on full song though.
Audi S4 1.30.9
And beats the TT hands down
Audi TT V6 1.32.7
No lap time for the Mk5 GTI though, I've just emailed him to try and get it posted up on the lap time wall.
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Did you guys know that the Stig did laps of the Top Gear circuit, in the W12 and the R32, with these results;
Volkswagen Golf W12 GTI 1.29.6
Volkswagen Golf R32 1.30.4
Not much difference for all that power, just shows you what a good car the R32 is and how it gets its power down!
The R32 is quicker than my old S4, and that had 344Bhp! The S4 sounded fantastic on full song though.
Audi S4 1.30.9
And beats the TT hands down
Audi TT V6 1.32.7
No lap time for the Mk5 GTI though, I've just emailed him to try and get it posted up on the lap time wall.
im sure that i saw the GTi time somewhere for Top gear ?
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Hi 182_Blue
I've had a look but cant find it, do you know where it was?
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just found this
81. 1:32.9 – SEAT León Cupra R
82. 1:32.9 – Mercedes-Benz SLK350
83. 1:33.0 – Mercedes-Benz SL55 AMG[6]
84. 1:33.0 – Vauxhall Astra VXR
85. 1:33.1 – Noble M12 GTO[6]
86. 1:33.3 – Volkswagen Golf Mark IV R32
87. 1:33.3 – Cadillac CTS-V[6]
88. 1:33.7 – MG ZT 260
89. 1:33.7 – Volkswagen Golf Mark V GTI
90. 1:33.8 – Renaultsport Clio 182 Cup
91. 1:33.9 – Holden Monaro[9]
92. 1:34.0 - Renaultsport Mégane 225
93. 1:34.2 – MINI Cooper S Works
94. 1:34.5 – Ford Mondeo ST220
95. 1:34.7 – Jaguar XKR[10]
96. 1:34.9 – Ford Focus ST[11]
97. 1:35.0 – Volvo S60 R
98. 1:35.2 – Ferrari 575M Maranello[6][3]
http://www.jeremyclarkson.co.uk/content/view/18/39/
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Standard GTI done it in 1.33.7 (part of the test with cooper s works, civic type r, megane 225, leon cupra etc)
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just found this (but times dont seem to match above)
81. 1:32.9 SEAT León Cupra R
82. 1:32.9 Mercedes-Benz SLK350
83. 1:33.0 Mercedes-Benz SL55 AMG[6]
84. 1:33.0 Vauxhall Astra VXR
85. 1:33.1 Noble M12 GTO[6]
86. 1:33.3 Volkswagen Golf Mark IV R32
87. 1:33.3 Cadillac CTS-V[6]
88. 1:33.7 MG ZT 260
89. 1:33.7 Volkswagen Golf Mark V GTI
90. 1:33.8 Renaultsport Clio 182 Cup
91. 1:33.9 Holden Monaro[9]
92. 1:34.0 - Renaultsport Mégane 225
93. 1:34.2 MINI Cooper S Works
94. 1:34.5 Ford Mondeo ST220
95. 1:34.7 Jaguar XKR[10]
96. 1:34.9 Ford Focus ST[11]
97. 1:35.0 Volvo S60 R
98. 1:35.2 Ferrari 575M Maranello[6][3]
http://www.jeremyclarkson.co.uk/content/view/18/39/
The R32 you have there is the Mk4, the one on the current lap time board is the Mk5.
1.33.7 for the standard GTI is ok, I wonder what the ED30 would do it in?
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Id like to think the ed30 would match the leon cupra r/astra vxr but theres a bawhair in it between them and the standard gti anyways
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You cant count the W12 time really, its a prototype and wasnt built to go round corners as JC said.
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The R is the Mac Daddy thats why :grin: :grin:
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The stig has had the ED30 around the track - with a time - in March 2007's Topgear magazine. The question now is....has anyone got it?....I have :evil:
what's that.....oh the kettle's just boiled.....................................
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The stig has had the ED30 around the track - with a time - in March 2007's Topgear magazine. The question now is....has anyone got it?....I have :evil:
what's that.....oh the kettle's just boiled.....................................
serious ?
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The stig has had the ED30 around the track - with a time - in March 2007's Topgear magazine. The question now is....has anyone got it?....I have :evil:
what's that.....oh the kettle's just boiled.....................................
serious ?
Hurdy ! You are teasing now !!!!!
I must admit that I am well impressed with the R32 lap time, I now wonder how it compares to the ED30 in the dry.....
In the wet the R32 would walk it :wink:
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ED30 time was 1.32.6
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ED30 time was 1.32.6
really ?, if so imagine a remapped ed30 :evil:, no wonder that R32 driver looked a bit shocked the other day :tongue:
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I'm not sure the time will be that different with a remapped ed30 (no I'm not jealous or regret ordering a normal GTi :wink:) but I thought that there was a limit on how much BHP a FWD can handle/effectively use. I think it was something like 250bhp before it becomes a total nightmare to drive cough:vauxhall astra vxr:cough
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Good time but the Stig hated it (chronic understeer & dreadfull abs) he says the type r is the better car.
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So according to my crude mathmatics VW need to put the ED30 (or the S3) engine into the R32 and call it the R30, (RED30 or ED30R etc...) then you could modify it from the standard 230Bhp and have 300Bhp plus, 4WD and with considerably less engine weight. Oh and massive traction.
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I'm not sure the time will be that different with a remapped ed30 (no I'm not jealous or regret ordering a normal GTi :wink:) but I thought that there was a limit on how much BHP a FWD can handle/effectively use. I think it was something like 250bhp before it becomes a total nightmare to drive cough:vauxhall astra vxr:cough
i reckon it would add a little on the straights
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Good time but the Stig hated it (chronic understeer & dreadfull abs) he says the type r is the better car.
shows the stig doesnt know feck all!!, for starters stig doesnt talk!!, :wink:. Honda's sh!te, 2nd gen is worse then the 1st one!
Anyone find a copy on the net in writing to back this up????
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ED30 time was 1.32.6
You see, I knew someone would have the magazine :grin:
I tried to blank it from my memory as the Stig didn't like it as he said "it has chronic understeer" and "dreadful ABS" and hated it :sad: :cry:
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Hurdy stop trying to make Phil cry! :grin:
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well if thats true, isnt it pointless getting 300 bhp, if the car cant put it on the road. Hurdys car is a classic case, i really dont think that you will better your time of sub 14 seconds and 5.66 to 60.
If what stig says is right, 200hp is the maxium you can put through the front wheels with the VW. hense why it stands up so well against more powerfull rivals like the vxr and sanitary towel,sorry ST
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Good time but the Stig hated it (chronic understeer & dreadfull abs) he says the type r is the better car.
shows the stig doesnt know feck all!!, for starters stig doesnt talk!!, :wink:. Honda's sh!te, 2nd gen is worse then the 1st one!
Anyone find a copy on the net in writing to back this up????
dont worry Phil the type r only done a 1.34.3 lap you bought the right car. :grin:
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Good time but the Stig hated it (chronic understeer & dreadfull abs) he says the type r is the better car.
shows the stig doesnt know feck all!!, for starters stig doesnt talk!!, :wink:. Honda's sh!te, 2nd gen is worse then the 1st one!
Anyone find a copy on the net in writing to back this up????
I'll see if I can get some readable photo's up in the next 10 mins :smiley:
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thank
feck for that :wink:
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Hurdy stop trying to make Phil cry! :grin:
You trying to make me buy an R32 now!!, no pleasing some people!
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The awsome ed30 with 370hp,
have they track tested , done 0-60 times?? or is it just too uncontrolable from a standing start.
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Here you are. Unsure of the quality as I've done it in a rush!
(http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t8/hurdy_album/topgearpics001.jpg)
(http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t8/hurdy_album/topgearpics002.jpg)
(http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t8/hurdy_album/topgearpics003.jpg)
(http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t8/hurdy_album/topgearpics004.jpg)
(http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t8/hurdy_album/topgearpics005.jpg)
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The awsome ed30 with 370hp,
have they track tested , done 0-60 times?? or is it just too uncontrolable from a standing start.
Oooooh, you'll have to wait for May's Performance Tuner magazine to find out. I spoke to Kirk via e-mail(works on the Mag) and they have tested several MKV GTI's at Bruntingthorpe last weekend and they are doing a full cover on them. It includes Awesomes car too. :drool:
He's gonna send me a free advance copy when they arrive :smug:
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Hurdy i take it you've also got boxes full of old magazines in your cupboard. :grin:
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well if thats true, isnt it pointless getting 300 bhp, if the car cant put it on the road. Hurdys car is a classic case, i really dont think that you will better your time of sub 14 seconds and 5.66 to 60.
If what stig says is right, 200hp is the maxium you can put through the front wheels with the VW. hense why it stands up so well against more powerfull rivals like the vxr and sanitary towel,sorry ST
I'll lay odds I beat both (weather permitting!) :wink:
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Hurdy i take it you've also got boxes full of old magazines in your cupboard. :grin:
They won't all fit in my cupboard :embarassed: The study is full of them :shocked:
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interesting read that, well done hurdy for the find.Am surprised about what stig claims, but hes the pro and not me.He can test a car on its limits whereas i (us) dont need to . :smiley:
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interesting read that, well done hurdy for the find.Am surprised about what stig claims, but hes the pro and not me.He can test a car on its limits whereas i (us) dont need to . :smiley:
If you came for a passenger ride with me in Derbyshire you wouldn't say that :laugh:
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interesting read that, well done hurdy for the find.Am surprised about what stig claims, but hes the pro and not me.He can test a car on its limits whereas i (us) dont need to . :smiley:
If you came for a passenger ride with me in Derbyshire you wouldn't say that :laugh:
Values his life and will stay way down south thankyou very much! :wink:
Ive only just got my ed30, i'd like time ALIVE to enjoy it 1st! :wink:
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Great find on the magazine Hurdy, interesting read! :wink:
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Great find on the magazine Hurdy, interesting read! :wink:
I must say that I totally disagree with the stig about the Type R. It is fidgety, noisy as hell at full chat and is nowhere near as fast on the open road unless you want to be deaf and permanently run it in the top 2000rpm of the rev range. Anything less than full attack mode and the car is as flat as a wet lettuce after a rainstorm :grin:
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But thats the whole point of the type-r.... manic revs. You can't expect to drive it like you would in turbo-ed hatches. The Chassis might be sh*t but i think the engine is great.. must be a marmite engine i guess.
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Doh have they done the performance day then Hurdy?
Rob
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I actually have the edition....bought this issue when i was deciding for a car after I smashed my clio....it had to be a hatch and coincidently this issue came out with lots of hatch tests cause of the new type r. Was deffinatley a good read and absolutely convinced me to get a Megane R26 but some how....i got a GTI...which i was more than happy with.... :smiley:
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Anyone spot the mistake where they state the car has an extra 20Bhp at 227, surley they mean 30? See, the Stig cant even do maths.
I bet in real life he drives a Vauxhall.
Or a BMW 330 convertible.
Ewwwww :sick:
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hah the stigs problem was he drove a white one, they aren't fast enough.You need a better colour.
The Vtec is a good engine you just need to know how to drive it to get max benefit.
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Had it been a black one, with 17" wheels there would have been no understeer at all and lap times of 1.30.00.
Oh and the Stig would have been so impressed he'd have stole it and changed his race suit to black so he'd match!
Got a bad hangover here so apologies if I'm talking crepe!
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Doh have they done the performance day then Hurdy?
Rob
The Performance Tuner GTI shootout one? yes.
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I came from an Ep3 premier eidition type r to a standard Mkv GTI, The GTI is much better to live with under everyday driving conditions.
But i do miss that VTEC roar on those little country roads it did put a massive grin on your face and the EP3 had independent rear suspension which made it a cracker of a hot hatch! :cool:
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Guys, great little car the GTI is, whoever tested the cars is spot on, what spoils the GTi is understeer, weak brakes under high loads and bodyroll. And to fix that lot is expensive. But as a day to day car its very good. Was at Brands for a track evening this week, and a MK4 R32 standard run rings around a Mk5 GTI, again chronic understeer and spongy brakes being the main culprit
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I am convinced further that the Stig is a former (or even current) touring car driver. Tiff says the same kind of stuff about the CTR.
but after reading all that my conclusion is........... I will keep my R32 knowing that its still the king!! :grin:
What was it the stig said about the R32.. "very impressive"
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shame the R32 isnt the fastest production golf :evil: :evil: :evil: :wink:
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Guys, great little car the GTI is, whoever tested the cars is spot on, what spoils the GTi is understeer, weak brakes under high loads and bodyroll. And to fix that lot is expensive. But as a day to day car its very good. Was at Brands for a track evening this week, and a MK4 R32 standard run rings around a Mk5 GTI, again chronic understeer and spongy brakes being the main culprit
Bottom line is, VW wanted to make an everyday gti that could have a bit of spirit that you could use to learn about track day driving. In everyday driving an R32 wouldn't run rings around an ed30. I have seen so many track events where the std gti is up against some very lively 4 wheel drive competition and often keeps up with and beats the majoirty on most occassions. To make the test in question really fair, they should upgrade the brakes and suspension settings on the ed30 to the level of the rest of the cars, (or have them all with brembos and correct track suspension) then we'd see just how good the ed30 is. I wonder if the Seat had the brembo upgrade which gave it the extra advantage :wink:
Overall, if you want your car to race around tracks, then you need to invest in some serious kit, if though like me you need your car to be balanced and do more than 30k miles a year, then you need to stick pretty much with what the standard settings give you, the perfect balance.
Now that the S3 will be available as a five door (no news yet on the dsg version), I would have to say that would be the better out of the bunch????
I have a few R32 mkv's around my neck of the woods, who often find it funny to try and ride my bumper, they then realise they can't keep up once I've dropped a cog or two, especially now I have 307bhp :evil: If you know how to use the power, you can guide your car around a track just as quickly as any R32 :grin: and at that point I'm the one still smiling when my car is averaging 33mpg!
If you search hard enough you'll see many a track race between the gti and other hatches and there is so little in it most of the time, some they win, some they don't, however the underlying comment always reads, the gti is the one they all want to drive home in :grin:
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Telboy, simple point I was making is that the standard setup of the GTI gives far too much body roll and too much understeer, agree that the general setup is OK for everyday driving, but as soon as you push on, then the above issues come into play, followed by average brakes, the brake issue is easy to overcome with some decent pads and little money, but curing the other 2 is expensive, and this is not about track driving, its general setup, and it dont matter if you have 200 or 300hp, its always there.
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Telboy, simple point I was making is that the standard setup of the GTI gives far too much body roll and too much understeer, agree that the general setup is OK for everyday driving, but as soon as you push on, then the above issues come into play, followed by average brakes, the brake issue is easy to overcome with some decent pads and little money, but curing the other 2 is expensive, and this is not about track driving, its general setup, and it dont matter if you have 200 or 300hp, its always there.
Still stick with my point and I have seen good drivers do things with the gti I never thought possible, when you chat with them they'll always say that it's knowing how to use the car that gives you the best advantage overall!!! Why would the gti win so many hot hatch awards??? Appreciate your comments to a point, however the gti is still one of the best balanced hot hatches around. I find the general setup spot on and I munch a fair few miles on and off the Mway, any hardeder and I couldn't have the car, I will agree that my next mod is going to be some decent pads though :embarassed:
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Just watch tiff neddell put a GTi round the track, especially when he puts the red ed30 round against the Focus ST.
Thats a front wheel drive car that is one of THE best front wheel drive cars. You Cannot compare anything thats 4 wheel drive to it.(unless it a scooby wrx which is alot slower! :wink:.Your agument about the GTi being a poor track car doesnt have much substance imo
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=kKxCT1UK_sE
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shame the R32 isnt the fastest production golf :evil: :evil: :evil: :wink:
But yet still manages to be the fastest around the TG track by a good too seconds :smug:
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shame the R32 isnt the fastest production golf :evil: :evil: :evil: :wink:
But yet still manages to be the fastest around the TG track by a good too seconds :smug:
:grin:That's mainly down to the fact that he can't drive the golf gti for some reason :wink: I have seen many test drivers wack the gti around the track just as fast as the r32, will let you have the tg trophy for now, on the real road though you'd be hard pushed to pull away and add 2 seconds between yourself and an ed30 :evil: especially when it's got a £450 bluefin remap, I think you'd need an extra 110 bhp extra to get the same power to weight wouldn't you :grin:
I'll be honest R32, I think your car is the nuts, really do like the R32, however doing 30k miles a year and needing something a tad more economical and just as agile in the real world, I have to go with the ed30,.... :evil:
Bottom line is they're both blo*dy good cars and in their own rights are at the top of their respective trees!
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Morego do a product called the Power grip suspension kit which claims to "totally transform the Mk 5 GTI's handling in tight corners". Link below.
Their answer to the understeer problem is to increase the amount of negative camber in the static position to improve the tyre contact when cornering hard. This is achieved by modifying the wishbones (they cut the ends off and then weld extension pieces on). It produces about 1.75 degrees of negative camber. There was an article about it in the July 2007 copy of VW Driver magazine.
http://www.morego.co.uk/product_details.php?id=3356&make=37&model=323
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shame the R32 isnt the fastest production golf :evil: :evil: :evil: :wink:
But yet still manages to be the fastest around the TG track by a good too seconds :smug:
the R32 would have been even quicker where it not for the fact they had to stop off to refuel :grin:
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Morego do a product called the Power grip suspension kit which claims to "totally transform the Mk 5 GTI's handling in tight corners". Link below.
Their answer to the understeer problem is to increase the amount of negative camber in the static position to improve the tyre contact when cornering hard. This is achieved by modifying the wishbones (they cut the ends off and then weld extension pieces on). It produces about 1.75 degrees of negative camber. There was an article about it in the July 2007 copy of VW Driver magazine.
http://www.morego.co.uk/product_details.php?id=3356&make=37&model=323
did they rate it ?, as they do one for my old car and that got bad write ups
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shame the R32 isnt the fastest production golf :evil: :evil: :evil: :wink:
But yet still manages to be the fastest around the TG track by a good too seconds :smug:
:grin:That's mainly down to the fact that he can't drive the golf gti for some reason :wink: I have seen many test drivers wack the gti around the track just as fast as the r32, will let you have the tg trophy for now, on the real road though you'd be hard pushed to pull away and add 2 seconds between yourself and an ed30 :evil: especially when it's got a £450 bluefin remap, I think you'd need an extra 110 bhp extra to get the same power to weight wouldn't you :grin:
I'll be honest R32, I think your car is the nuts, really do like the R32, however doing 30k miles a year and needing something a tad more economical and just as agile in the real world, I have to go with the ed30,.... :evil:
Bottom line is they're both blo*dy good cars and in their own rights are at the top of their respective trees!
I will agree with that. If I were doing 30k a year then I too would be driving a ED30. Cant really add much to that as you have probably hit the nail on the head. When we start to talk about remapping then the Ed30 wins hands down.. simply because it cheap as chips to do. Although a supercharged R32 is a force to be reckoned with also... and I might just be back to show the Ed30's how its really done :smug: :drool:
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shame the R32 isnt the fastest production golf :evil: :evil: :evil: :wink:
But yet still manages to be the fastest around the TG track by a good too seconds :smug:
:grin:That's mainly down to the fact that he can't drive the golf gti for some reason :wink: I have seen many test drivers wack the gti around the track just as fast as the r32, will let you have the tg trophy for now, on the real road though you'd be hard pushed to pull away and add 2 seconds between yourself and an ed30 :evil: especially when it's got a £450 bluefin remap, I think you'd need an extra 110 bhp extra to get the same power to weight wouldn't you :grin:
I'll be honest R32, I think your car is the nuts, really do like the R32, however doing 30k miles a year and needing something a tad more economical and just as agile in the real world, I have to go with the ed30,.... :evil:
Bottom line is they're both blo*dy good cars and in their own rights are at the top of their respective trees!
I will agree with that. If I were doing 30k a year then I too would be driving a ED30. Cant really add much to that as you have probably hit the nail on the head. When we start to talk about remapping then the Ed30 wins hands down.. simply because it cheap as chips to do. Although a supercharged R32 is a force to be reckoned with also... and I might just be back to show the Ed30's how its really done :smug: :drool:
how much would fitting and setting up a supercharger cost you though ?
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Orca, interesting article, always an increase in neg camber will reduce understeer, so its in the right direction to cure the problem, claims of more balanced tyre wear are interesting as I would expect to see an increase in inner tread wear with -1.75deg. There is no doubt the VW designers have to err on the side of caution and safety for most drivers and conditions, but I believe they have been too conservative.
Sure top line jockeys like Tiff can get the thing sideways around a track, and if we could all drive like that then I doubt we'd be banging keys on forums like this.
Could be a cheap way to improve the setup, though bunging £500, might as well add another 700 and fit a set of KW's. Then you get the best of both worlds for track and road.
Might also stop the rubber marking you get around the rim edges of the Monzas under hard cornering!!
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Orca, interesting article, always an increase in neg camber will reduce understeer, so its in the right direction to cure the problem, claims of more balanced tyre wear are interesting as I would expect to see an increase in inner tread wear with -1.75deg. There is no doubt the VW designers have to err on the side of caution and safety for most drivers and conditions, but I believe they have been too conservative.
Sure top line jockeys like Tiff can get the thing sideways around a track, and if we could all drive like that then I doubt we'd be banging keys on forums like this.
Could be a cheap way to improve the setup, though bunging £500, might as well add another 700 and fit a set of KW's. Then you get the best of both worlds for track and road.
Might also stop the rubber marking you get around the rim edges of the Monzas under hard cornering!!
Excuse my ignorance, but what are "KW's"? :smiley:
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they make suspension parts, im guessing he means coilovers
http://www.kw-suspension.co.uk/
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Morego do a product called the Power grip suspension kit which claims to "totally transform the Mk 5 GTI's handling in tight corners". Link below.
Their answer to the understeer problem is to increase the amount of negative camber in the static position to improve the tyre contact when cornering hard. This is achieved by modifying the wishbones (they cut the ends off and then weld extension pieces on). It produces about 1.75 degrees of negative camber. There was an article about it in the July 2007 copy of VW Driver magazine.
http://www.morego.co.uk/product_details.php?id=3356&make=37&model=323
did they rate it ?, as they do one for my old car and that got bad write ups
They did rate it. The article went on to say that "it is probably one of the most satisfying modifications you can make to your Mk5 Golf".
They also said that it would be the first mod they'd make to a Mk 5 GTI, even before a remap or fitting a free-flow exhaust.