GolfGTIforum.co.uk
Model specific boards => Golf mk5 => Topic started by: Len on 28 March 2008, 14:08
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Beginning to get the Mk5 bug after having driven one again and wondering which one I should be saving my pennies for!
So looking for opinions.
This wont happen next week and I will be looking to buy second hand.
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Beginning to get the Mk5 bug after having driven one again and wondering which one I should be saving my pennies for!
So looking for opinions.
This wont happen next week and I will be looking to buy second hand.
what have you asked?? :huh:
*stands back and waits for the war to begin :evil: :laugh:*
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ED30, because you're not allowed the same car as me.
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Depends what you want really mate.. If you want the CC's and the V6 sound and growl, + the 4WD traction then go R32.
If you want modding potential and decent MPG's then go Ed30..
Looks are down to taste IMO. Both have similar performance in standard form (Ed30 maybe slightly quicker from what I hear and has a better power to weight, but it'd be marginal i'd imagine). But the thing that did it for me, was the fact I can join the 300bhp club for £500 and still retain decent fuel economy. Where as the R32's running cost was a no no for me, as I do 30,000k a year..
All down to your preferences really mate. But both are awesome and i'm sure you'll be happy with either.. :wink:
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Well I do prefer the look of the R32 as I have never liked the Gti front.
Sorry toph!
All I have to do now is persuade the wife I need a new car!
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hey and then you can become a member of the mk5 section :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin:
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Didnt realise I had to join!
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Oh I.. Don't let any Mk3 rif raf in here you know... :grin: :grin: :grin:
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Yep..you'll have to put your money where your mouth is....and of course grow some bollocks and just tell the wife your buying one... :smug:
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Well I'm in here now! :laugh:
Not a case of growing balls! Its a case of do I want meals on the table and sex now and then! :wink:
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Your right Len keep the mk3. :grin:
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For me the Head would say ED30 the Heart would say R32. I just couldn't stomach the fuel costs or a car that cost more to tax than insure.
Nick
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Your right Len keep the mk3. :grin:
I intend to! After all the money I just spent on it! :rolleyes:
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Len....You know you want an R32...Just like Tophers :wink: :grin:
Of course it would have to have blue rear lenses :rolleyes: :laugh:
Have you driven both yet Len? and which one does your heart say you want?
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definalty R32.. smiles per miles :grin: :grin:.. with my GTI, it was great until i saw a R32 come the other way!!.. :evil:
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i think the blue lenses would go much better on a silver ed30..
seriously though, like the man says.. drive both then decide.
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i had the same choice, and tbh i could have got an r32 for the same price as my ed 30, BUT i decided a remap and edition would suit me better, and fuel and tax will be less on the ed30 too :-)
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Easy one. if you can afford the R32 then thats the one to go for!! i wouldnt change my car for anything!! (ok maybe a petrol station)
But you only live once... and nothing makes you feel more alive than a kick ass V6 :evil: :evil: :evil:
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R32 is only worth it with a turbo. Otherwise too expensive.
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If it was a normal GTI i would say R32 but to be honest i havent driven an ED30...if you can afford it and think its worth...deffinatley the R32...i personally think it was £30k well spent :evil:
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R32 is only worth it with a turbo. Otherwise too expensive.
Surely a R32 with a turbo would be more expensive :undecided:
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As I said at the start I wont be buying brand new - it just goes against my principles!
So that kinda limits my options as Ed30's are still very new and probably not many available second hand.
If I buy either it will stay standard and definitely no blue lenses!
My head and heart says R32 and as it wont be doing a huge mileage I'm not really worried about fuel costs.
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The R32 because of its soundtrack!
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As I said at the start I wont be buying brand new - it just goes against my principles!
So that kinda limits my options as Ed30's are still very new and probably not many available second hand.
If I buy either it will stay standard and definitely no blue lenses!
My head and heart says R32 and as it wont be doing a huge mileage I'm not really worried about fuel costs.
Take an R32 for a spin! Then all you have to do is convince yourself you DONT want one :evil: :evil:
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As I said at the start I wont be buying brand new - it just goes against my principles!
So that kinda limits my options as Ed30's are still very new and probably not many available second hand.
If I buy either it will stay standard and definitely no blue lenses!
My head and heart says R32 and as it wont be doing a huge mileage I'm not really worried about fuel costs.
Take an R32 for a spin! Then all you have to do is convince yourself you DONT want one :evil: :evil:
then take out a 5 door GTi dsg and see how much fun that is, and then put your practicle ,sensible head on. :wink:
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As I said at the start I wont be buying brand new - it just goes against my principles!
So that kinda limits my options as Ed30's are still very new and probably not many available second hand.
If I buy either it will stay standard and definitely no blue lenses!
My head and heart says R32 and as it wont be doing a huge mileage I'm not really worried about fuel costs.
Take an R32 for a spin! Then all you have to do is convince yourself you DONT want one :evil: :evil:
then take out a 5 door GTi dsg and see how much fun that is, and then put your practicle ,sensible head on. :wink:
Sensible??? Sensible is for skoda
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you will get much more car for your money with an R32
If the miles you are going to do is low , then this maybe the car for you.
Ultimately its your budget top line money wise.
Mileage you do , and road tax differences
From what you say about your circumstances I'd get a nice R32 :smiley: dont forget the recaro's
just remember unless you buy a turbo kit , thats as fast as it goes.
tuning potential is limited compared to ED30
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There are a few tuning option available... but like John_o said the gains will be quite limited. i think just under 300 is achievable with exhaust and remap and some other bits n bobs :laugh:
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Manu_R32...could you comment on what you think the R32 is like over your GTI?
I'm also interested in trading my GTI for an R32, would like to know apart from the sound how different the handling and acceleration is?
Does the car really feel that heavy when turing into corners?
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R32 is only worth it with a turbo. Otherwise too expensive.
Surely a R32 with a turbo would be more expensive :undecided:
yes, but more relation cost-fun would be greater. As it is now, R32 is no more fun then E30.
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R32 is only worth it with a turbo. Otherwise too expensive.
Surely a R32 with a turbo would be more expensive :undecided:
yes, but more relation cost-fun would be greater. As it is now, R32 is no more fun then E30.
Thats true. until it snows or rains, which it seems to be doing lots of at the moment. I would just say that if your going to stay std, then the ED30 isnt quite as quick as the R32. The ED30 is more fun.. but the R32 can eat miles like they are going out of fashion!!
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It would stay standard!
The R32 wins then!
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It would stay standard!
The R32 wins then!
Woo Hooo!!! Another R32! We need some support against these common as muck Ed30's :drool:
p.s. Welcome to the winning team :grin: :grin:
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R32 is only worth it with a turbo. Otherwise too expensive.
Surely a R32 with a turbo would be more expensive :undecided:
yes, but more relation cost-fun would be greater. As it is now, R32 is no more fun then E30.
Thats true. until it snows or rains, which it seems to be doing lots of at the moment. I would just say that if your going to stay std, then the ED30 isnt quite as quick as the R32. The ED30 is more fun.. but the R32 can eat miles like they are going out of fashion!!
I've never seen an R32 yet that could do 0-60 in under 5.7 seconds.....So ED30 is quicker. Similarly on the standing QTR ED30 wins. In the dry(like today) on any given B road...ED30 is quicker and more agile. That's as standard too. :smug: :wink:
I would not fault you though Len for going for the R32 as it is still a lovely car. :cool:
and of course the older guys like the bigger cruisers... :rolleyes: :wink:
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It would stay standard!
The R32 wins then!
Looking to get rid of mine mate sing a new business and need van and car so something has to give take a look and let me know if you are interested....Looking to sell within the next week and could maybe talk on the price.
http://www.tyresmoke.net/classifieds.php?ShowAd=2126
That is the correct link just tyresmoke must be having probs at the mo..
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R32 is only worth it with a turbo. Otherwise too expensive.
Surely a R32 with a turbo would be more expensive :undecided:
yes, but more relation cost-fun would be greater. As it is now, R32 is no more fun then E30.
Thats true. until it snows or rains, which it seems to be doing lots of at the moment. I would just say that if your going to stay std, then the ED30 isnt quite as quick as the R32. The ED30 is more fun.. but the R32 can eat miles like they are going out of fashion!!
I've never seen an R32 yet that could do 0-60 in under 5.7 seconds.....So ED30 is quicker. Similarly on the standing QTR ED30 wins. In the dry(like today) on any given B road...ED30 is quicker and more agile. That's as standard too. :smug: :wink:
I would not fault you though Len for going for the R32 as it is still a lovely car. :cool:
and of course the older guys like the bigger cruisers... :rolleyes: :wink:
I agree with Hurdy.. Although 0-60 in most cases would favour the R32 (Just) just because of the 4wd. BUT, once rolling the R32 is always going to struggle against it's younger brother with similar power but less transmission losses AND 150kgs lighter..
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Word of advice if you're going for the R32 Len, those of 'bigger' frames sometimes find the recaro seats uncomfortable.. so try them out before ticking the box for those... ya fat b@stard :laugh:
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R32 is only worth it with a turbo. Otherwise too expensive.
Surely a R32 with a turbo would be more expensive :undecided:
yes, but more relation cost-fun would be greater. As it is now, R32 is no more fun then E30.
Thats true. until it snows or rains, which it seems to be doing lots of at the moment. I would just say that if your going to stay std, then the ED30 isnt quite as quick as the R32. The ED30 is more fun.. but the R32 can eat miles like they are going out of fashion!!
I've never seen an R32 yet that could do 0-60 in under 5.7 seconds.....So ED30 is quicker. Similarly on the standing QTR ED30 wins. In the dry(like today) on any given B road...ED30 is quicker and more agile. That's as standard too. :smug: :wink:
I would not fault you though Len for going for the R32 as it is still a lovely car. :cool:
and of course the older guys like the bigger cruisers... :rolleyes: :wink:
Yours must be a freak hurdy! I personally dont think the ED30 is faster than an R32. Just look at the top gear track times if you want proof. In a straight line.. in the dry maybe the ED30 could edge it... but even then I dont think there would be anything but a nose hair in it. In reality on any road with bends .... the R32 will win hands down. Atleast that my opinion anyway :nerd:
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Thanks topher! Have no problem with any standard car seat thanks! :tongue:
Thanks to mojo555 but I havent got the pennies yet or persuaded the wife! :grin:
Also need to research prices on year/mileage etc. to see what I can get.
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mojo555 - just tried your link and it didnt work! Object not found.
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Yours must be a freak hurdy! I personally dont think the ED30 is faster than an R32. Just look at the top gear track times if you want proof. In a straight line.. in the dry maybe the ED30 could edge it... but even then I dont think there would be anything but a nose hair in it. In reality on any road with bends .... the R32 will win hands down. Atleast that my opinion anyway :nerd:
Not so my friend :wink:
A manual ED30 managed a 5.59 second 0-60 and in the VW driver magazine the Manual made a 5.6 and the DSG a 5.9 in the wet! The best standard R32 at Inters last year made a 5.75 second 0-60 and in the VW driver magazine they managed 5.8 secs with the manual R32.
In gear test times were:-
R32 ED30 ED30 DSG GTI
30-50 in 3rd 3.2 2.9 2.4 3.0
30-50 in 4th 4.4 4.1 - 4.1
50-70 in 3rd 3.0 2.7 3.0 3.3
50-70 in 4th 4.1 3.7 - 4.1
50-70 in 5th 5.1 4.5 - 5.1
50-70 in 6th 7.0 6.2 - 6.2
There is no gear within the legal limit that the R32 beats the ED30 and Looking at the figures a std GTI doesn't do too badly either.
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and Looking at the figures a std GTI doesn't do too badly either.
:shocked: Not to bad?! The GTI beats or matches the R in every test except the 50 - 70 in 3rd! Very impressive in my book! Quite a poor show by the R really... :undecided:
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Those in-gear times don't surprise me, you're only just about touching the powerband in the 3.2 at those speeds.. it really lacks some mid-range punch, which I've heard a remap improves drastically.. even if it does only mean about 10bhp in pub talk.
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Gti dsg would knock 3 tenths off those Gti figures stated.More then a match for the R
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I'm not sure how that works.. i mean sure you can change gears faster with DSG.. but those times are recorded while in just one gear :huh:
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Manu_R32...could you comment on what you think the R32 is like over your GTI?
I'm also interested in trading my GTI for an R32, would like to know apart from the sound how different the handling and acceleration is?
Does the car really feel that heavy when turing into corners?
Well...il give my honest opinion but i dont want to get jumped at by these GTI Owners and would like to clearly starte my opinion is over a GTI and not an ED30 lol. Compared to my GTI the R32 feels much more different. It feels completely planted to the ground and have only had the car slide once round a round about but no real big issue. The acceleration on the R32 is delivered alot more differentley to the GTI. The gti will go easy till about 2500 - 3000 rpm's and then this huge rush of power will throw you back into your seat where as the R32 i seem to find power all the way through the rev range. (I know im supposed to be "running in" but im not.) People mention how the engine upfront makes the car heavy and hard to turn. I reckon this only really matters on places like a track. It depends what kind of driving you wish to use the car. A GTI tried to have a go at me last night here in Gib so i just simply dropped a gear and flew off. This is a well known road here in Gibraltar and with the GTI where i would need to brake, i didnt have to brake with the R32 allowing me to get a good distance away from him. I think after this turn the GTI sort of gave up as i just slowed down and he caught up towards the end of the road. I always used to think it was abit unrealistic and hardly noticeable when people would mention the amount of grip the R32 has but i think after this sort of experience it has shown. This is my opinion over 500km's of driving an R32. Possibly after a few more thousand things will change and yes...i would keep my R32 over a GTI...anyday! Sorry GTI Owners... :smiley:
Another issue to consider would be things like road tax. Here in Gib we dont have road tax, prices of petrol were incresed rather than having road tax as alot of people come over from spain for cheaper petrol here in Gibraltar where as things like road tax and petrol are very high in the UK...this might be another reason why GTI drivers prefare the GTI over the R32 :)
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Im not sure how they work those ingear times as I am pretty sure the gearing setup in the R32 is very different to the Gti. what I do know is that I dont have to be flat out (or in turbo range) to make very rapid progress.
As I approach 10k too the car is really starting to loosen up well :smug:
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Started a bit of a debate here! :grin:
To date I have only driven a Gti for a short time and then recently a Tdi hire car!
BTW I thrashed that up to an indicated 120mph! :grin: :evil:
Both cars felt good to drive and far better than any Mk4 I have driven.
So for the only reason I dont like the Gti nose its gotta be an R32! :grin:
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Just stop thinking about it and go for it! :wink:
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http://youtube.com/watch?v=hKIhziAP_jo
Quite a fair review.... :smiley:
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thats good to hear, i'd like to see those in gear times with an R32 with a remap and some miles on the clock and see what a difference it would be then?
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thats good to hear, i'd like to see those in gear times with an R32 with a remap and some miles on the clock and see what a difference it would be then?
Yes, I'd like to see those in gear times with an ed30 with remap and a few miles on the clock and see what a difference that would make, bring it on!!! :evil: (dives for cover from R32 boys!!!)
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Been looking at an Eos today! :grin:
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Been looking at an Eos today! :grin:
I'd plump for the Scirocco over the Eos (even if it doesn't get the 3.2 V6) :cool:
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Ed30 would be my choice if it had to be a Golf.
It is lighter, faster, more tunable (within a reasonable budget), better looking, less expensive to road tax, less expensive on fuel and less expensive to insure.
However the R32 wins on noise, smoothness, seats (GTi seats are crap in my opinion) and grip/traction.
The R32 is sure to depreciate harder than the GTi now thanks to our (not so) wonderful government and their awesome backdated C02 Road Tax policy and increasing fuel prices. On the other hand, off the line and on damp/wet days, the R32 could still utilise most of its performance where the Ed30 would spin its tyres.
Also, for basic mods (not adding/changing turbos) the R32 might come close to 300bhp - for the same money an Ed30 could have close on 350bhp (intercooler, fuel pump, intake, map and exhaust).
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http://youtube.com/watch?v=hKIhziAP_jo
Quite a fair review.... :smiley:
I watched ^^^that^^^ and he quoted the base price for the GTI in USA at $24,000, that's only 12,000 pounds!
And the R32 with leather and DSG at 16500 pounds!
I'm emigrating!
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Seats in the GTi are very good, very comfy compared to something like a Seat leon. I dont agree with the seats being crap in the GTi.
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you are really not going to notice any difference of the 0.000003 sec quicker or whatever,
I owned a MKV Gti for 2 years, and have swapped it for the R32, and have no regrets at all!!!!.. in fact wished i had done it sooner!.
The R32 is awsome, the noise is superb standard.. and is a fantastic driving experience. Dont get me wrong the GTI is a great car, i love the MKV golf, its the only car i have owned over 13 months!! (19 cars in 12 years). Which is exaclty why i bought the R32. I started to get itchy feet as it was boring me a little, but i didnt want to get shot of the Golf, so thought the R32 would be perfect to put a smile back on my face, and hell it does just that!!.
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you are really not going to notice any difference of the 0.000003 sec quicker or whatever,
I owned a MKV Gti for 2 years, and have swapped it for the R32, and have no regrets at all!!!!.. in fact wished i had done it sooner!.
The R32 is awsome, the noise is superb standard.. and is a fantastic driving experience. Dont get me wrong the GTI is a great car, i love the MKV golf, its the only car i have owned over 13 months!! (19 cars in 12 years). Which is exaclty why i bought the R32. I started to get itchy feet as it was boring me a little, but i didnt want to get shot of the Golf, so thought the R32 would be perfect to put a smile back on my face, and hell it does just that!!.
Well put Sparkzz!! I think everyone seems to overlook the fact that they are two cars which behave totally differently on the road.
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Seats in the GTi are very good, very comfy compared to something like a Seat leon. I dont agree with the seats being crap in the GTi.
You been in a Cupra?
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http://youtube.com/watch?v=hKIhziAP_jo
Quite a fair review.... :smiley:
I watched ^^^that^^^ and he quoted the base price for the GTI in USA at $24,000, that's only 12,000 pounds!
And the R32 with leather and DSG at 16500 pounds!
I'm emigrating!
Any idea how much it costs to bring a car over the water to Uk???
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Too much! Plus its LHD!
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Well been as the link still doesn't work, details of my car are
2007 57
DBP
2 Owners (i brought it when it was just under 4 weeks old)
5 Door
6200 miles
Rear factory tints
Reverse park sensors
RCD500
Centre amrest
Parrot bluetooth
Full leather
Winter pack
Think that is it, i will post if i remember anything else
£21500 and i am in stoke on trent
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Seats in the GTi are very good, very comfy compared to something like a Seat leon. I dont agree with the seats being crap in the GTi.
You been in a Cupra?
Yes ive driven both the Altea and leon cupra FR range, took them out on a test drive about 8 months ago, and thought they were poor quality in comparison, along with everything else thats inside the cabins.Got a clostraphobic feel to the rear inside.
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just going off topic slightly on my work travels today, bumped into someone how owns a Mk5 r32 manual, and of course we spoke about each others wagons, he was very interested in tring my car with the DSG as he asked the vw dealer if they had one in dsg but they couldnt find one.
So we agreed to meet up today and swop keys at his house, firstly he went out with me in my GTi, and he was absolutly blown away with the DSG, and he said oh my, this is awesome!!, and even liked how nimble the GTi as hes never driven one before.
So then it was my turn in his :evil:, his was an 06 manual 3 door in moon silver. lots of extras and only 3000 miles on the clock for an 06 car!, well what can i say, it was kinda disapointing although i never said that. He had the race recaro's also, and i just couldnt get really as comfortable as my standard leather seats.So as we pulled off , i had to open the windows and open his electric sunroof to have a listen to this sound track that every one talks about.
Oh boy the sound is lovelly!!!!!, can see that being very addictive, although was not blown away by the cars performance. it seems very sedate compared the the GTi, yes it pulls well , but it just feels like its almost flat when you floor it, and not the crisp feel of the turbo that the GTi and its turbo has, to the point of feeling slower. ok maybe its because its only done 3000 miles being that its his weekend toy,mine only has 1700 miles on it but was abit dispointed overall with the R expecting it to be so much faster then my GTi dsg.
i think i would re-consider if it was an R32 with DSG, then it didnt feel as good and as fun as a town Car and the gti is better suited, and the R is best suited to a Main A and B road blaster.
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It does feel slower, heck it 'feels' slower than my mk4 was, but the speedo says otherwise. It took me a good couple of weeks to get use to the power delivery after driving with turbo torque on tap, still think it needs a little more kick in mid-range though. (Trying desperately to stay away from the local revo and cc guys till my warranty is up).
What did you think of the 4wd? Did you get it sideways? :evil:
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lol, no i didnt want too, but im sure she'll grip to the cows come home!, but not everything about a car is that it goes round bends better, as i dont go flat out round bends just to prove it sticks.I still think a GTI in any of it's guises, is a better to live with option.sorry if its offended anyone, but it really needs more ommph. A 3.6 is badly needed!.
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but it really needs more ommph. A 3.6 is badly needed!.
Although I've never driven an MK5 R, thats exactly what I thought of my MK4 R. Just not as quick as it sounds, looks etc. A 3.6 would be awesome! :evil:
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Topher...have u managed to get you R sideways?? Iv tried a few times and only ever managed once...how do u do it :laugh:
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damp weather (only because it screeches too loud otherwise :grin:) traction control off, roundabout, right foot :afro:
although i have had a couple of years practice with the rallye
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We dont get much damp weather around here especially as summer is coming....lol :cool:
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damp weather (only because it screeches too loud otherwise :grin:) traction control off, roundabout, right foot :afro:
although i have had a couple of years practice with the rallye
Sooo much fun in the damp!! Lovelly controlled 4wd drift... Scares the hell out of your passengers tho :evil:
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Deffinatley something the ED30/GTI Boys cant do! :grin:
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Deffinatley something the ED30/GTI Boys cant do! :grin:
Nah they get understeer.. wheels spin and hop :lipsrsealed:
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handbrake normally does the trick in a front wheel drive :wink: easy peasy with dsg, but hard if you drive a slower manual :grin:
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Not exactly good for the car to pull up the handbrake whilst in motion....
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well about as good as tail sliding your car around a roundabout isnt it manu?? does that do it anygood? :rolleyes:
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well about as good as tail sliding your car around a roundabout isnt it manu?? does that do it anygood? :rolleyes:
Good point :grin:
I must admit thou...i miss my GTI :sad:
Althought i still cant beleive i own an R32...its quite confusing!
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Lift-off oversteer can be induced in the GTI with a heavy foot and decent commitment in a corner :evil:
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handbrake normally does the trick in a front wheel drive :wink: easy peasy with dsg, but hard if you drive a slower manual :grin:
Pulling up the handbrake is going to cause you to slow a little more than a manual transmission. Probably enough time for me to do some donuts on the finish line :drool:
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well about as good as tail sliding your car around a roundabout isnt it manu?? does that do it anygood? :rolleyes:
I must admit thou...i miss my GTI :sad:
I know exactly what you mean!!.. but dont worry, it dont last long..:)
I was gutted when i sold mine, and thinking damm have i done the right thing, but it very quickly becomes "YES YES YES" as the answer!!..:)
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well about as good as tail sliding your car around a roundabout isnt it manu?? does that do it anygood? :rolleyes:
I must admit thou...i miss my GTI :sad:
I know exactly what you mean!!.. but dont worry, it dont last long..:)
I was gutted when i sold mine, and thinking damm have i done the right thing, but it very quickly becomes "YES YES YES" as the answer!!..:)
Im guessing you drive an R32 then? To be honest i havent had much driving in the R since iv had it and as im always seeing GTI's here, it makes it that bit harder. Iv had the R32 for 10 days i think and iv only done around 400km's....still havent finished the running in :sad: :sad:
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Get out and drive the thing Manu. A young guy like you should be blatting the thing everywhere and revving the engine everytime you pass some good looking laydees :evil: :cool: SENSIBLY of course :wink:
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Get out and drive the thing Manu. A young guy like you should be blatting the thing everywhere and revving the engine everytime you pass some good looking laydees :evil: :cool: SENSIBLY of course :wink:
I would love to but im either helping my dad out with the business or stuck with coursework! Just two more weeks left for due dates and then the joy of summer starts!! :cool:
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just b4 you R owners wanna have a laugh, this is what happens when u go round a roundabout too fast :angry:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/miltonkeynesman/471645579/in/pool-golfgti
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Looking forward to getting in a Pirelli GTi now the ED30 has finished its run.
Love the R32 though.
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just b4 you R owners wanna have a laugh, this is what happens when u go round a roundabout too fast :angry:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/miltonkeynesman/471645579/in/pool-golfgti
Ouch!!! that must have hurt...... Wouldnt have happened if he was in an R32 :lipsrsealed: :grin: :grin:
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@ Phil Me Cavity
That'll be a picture I took then ?
;-)
More Dubs here
http://www.flickr.com/photos/miltonkeynesman/sets/72157594425231546/
Ed38 2007
http://www.flickr.com/photos/miltonkeynesman/sets/72157601826210987/
Dubs wanted for photoshoot in Milton Keynes
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=3337265318
;-)