GolfGTIforum.co.uk
Model specific boards => Golf mk2 => Topic started by: Conker on 21 February 2008, 13:03
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Hi,
Just a quick sanity check... I've searched the forum thoroughly and have diagnosed my current issue to be a head gasket fault. Here are the symptoms (1991 16v K-Jet):
1. In town driving, the coolant dissapears very quickly. In thirty minutes the coolant light starts flashing.
2. On a long motorway drive the coolant lasts a lot longer, at least 150 miles.
3. White smoke is coming from the exhaust at idle.
4. No mayo anywhere.
5. Car is running "okay-ish", sometimes a bit lawnmowery at low revs. It seems to want to run at very advanced ignition timings.
6. The car runs better when cold.
7. No coolant leaks are apparent. I've replaced expansion tank and cap and flushed the coolant. Fan cuts in as expected.
8. Car only overheats when coolant runs out.
9. Oil temp is fine.
10. Oil is being used but nothing too bad, approx a litre every 500 miles.
11. I haven't done a compression test as I would have to buy the kit and have no idea what to get. Plus the diagnosis seems fairly certain.
So, previous posts say a head gasket leak is most likely, and I can't think of anything else it could be?? I've read elsewhere that ignition timing issues (mine has an issue - its possibly a tooth out) can cause coolant loss and smoke out the back, but this sounds unlikely??
So the question is... Before I pull the head off, can you guys think of something I might have overlooked???
Cheers
Dave
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Dude I have a compression tester if you want to troll up to basingstoke on sunday I can check it out for you.
Nick
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Dude I have a compression tester if you want to troll up to basingstoke on sunday I can check it out for you.
Nick
Quality, cheers Nick, I'll see what other replies I get to my question first, then maybe take you up on your kind offer. If its more or less 90% defo the HG, I might just get cracking as I've got the rest of the week off to have a go - This will be my first "big job" on the Mk2 (bent valves here I come!! :grin: )
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Well let me know if you want it done, my mobile number is 07734 963525.
Nick
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When my h/g went ir was leaking coolant and oil to atmosphere so a compression test showed it was all ok. It does sound like head gasket failure though, check thoroly(sp?) for coolant leaks from the flanges on the head, 30 mins is absurdly quick to be dumping the lot, i'm sure you'd notice white smoke at more thsn idle.,
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there is a sniffer kit available that that i will try ro describe the best i can
it is like a turkey baster that you put a blue liquid in then stick in your expansion tank and pump and if the liquid turns green your head gasket is fooked
try a few garages to see if they have the kit and would do the test for you
or see if sealy tools do a online catalogue as im quite sure it was a sealy one i borrowed
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I have the EXACT same engine mate :grin:
You have a coolant leak but its not visible. Like mine...does your coolant vanish over night and sometimes get alot of air in the cooling system because of this :rolleyes:
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You have a coolant leak but its not visible. Like mine...does your coolant vanish over night and sometimes get alot of air in the cooling system because of this...
It doesn't vanish overnight, i.e. there are no puddles on the floor, but I do get air in the system. I was hoping it would be a leak, but that doesn't explain the white smoke coming out the exhaust.
For example, if I leave it idling on the drive, the ground behind the exhaust will be wet from water droplets being fired out of it.
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Hi guys
Mine was doing the exact same thing and i first thought it had to be the HG but it turned out to be a pipe failing. get the motor nice and hot with the coolant full. then have a good pull around on the hose's, ofcourse be mindfull of the fan it's going to cut in and out. Mine had a tiny split on the oil cooler feed pipes but they all needed replacing due to age really. It would only loss coolant at higher prolonged revs and wasn't leaving any signs of a leak anywhere but 20-30 miles and the coolant level light would be on.
Worth a look i reckon. good luck
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Well, I've just spent around £150 on tools and parts to do "The Job". The HG is being replaced over the next few days on my drive.
Thanks for the suggestions, but I'm still convinced its a headgasket due to the white smoke out the exhaust. I've just taken it out for a run and its running great until it gets hot, then it gets spluttery (don't know if that relates to a headgasket failure :undecided:). The white smoke (prob steam?) is really bad when re-starting the car after its been left five minutes when hot e.g. when nipping into Halfords this morning.
Presumably when left standing, the cylinder pressure drops, allowing water ingress, which is then burnt off when the car is re-started. The car is also difficult to start when this happens. This would also support the symptom of a long run being nowhere near as bad on coolant use, as the cylinder pressure is high for much longer/consistent periods.
Wish me luck!
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Water is a natural by-product of combustion, if there was a water leak into one of the bores I would expect the coolant system to be over-pressurised and very dirty. After all engine compression is higher than coolant pressure ;)
Another thing you could try, get an uber bright torch and shine it down all 4 sparky holes, if one piston looks cleaner than the rest its a good sign that you have a hg failure.
The fact you say its worse when town driving rather than motorway driving does suggest to me you just have a coolant leak somewhere, and havent found it yet! One of my heater matrix hoses wasn't tight enough, this caused my coolant to drop but it took me ages to track it down.
Having said all that it could still be hg failure :grin:
edit: head gasket swap isnt all that difficult tbh, canb be done in a day. trouble is you want to get your head skimmed really, they don't tend to just blow for no reason!
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I'm bound to be doing this pointlessly, I'll prob find a split hose costing 10p or something next week. :sad: Oh well, I've got far too much skin on my knuckles anyway.
Into the breech...
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Have fun, as mentioned, it's a doddle to do
I'm sure you'll let us know how many knuckles you manage to remove :)
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Update on progress...
Well the head is now attached to the bottom end by just one effing bolt - The tricky central bolt under the exhaust manifold. Whoever thought of putting one there and not leaving enough room around it for a socket needs shooting (i.e. I can get a ratchet up there but there isn't enough room around the bolt to get a socket on it) :angry:
I can get a spanner on it but it was starting to slip, so I've left it for now. I was thinking of buying a ring spanner, as presumably they are less prone to rounding bolts??
To start with I was going to take out the head with the downpipe attached but it won't clear the brake lines/anti roll bar above the driveshafts. Switched to plan B and took off the exhaust manifold as surprisingly the little blobs of brown rust that were formerly "bolts" seemed to want to come off (nice surprise). Oddly three of the studs screwed out rather than the bolt :undecided:
I'll try again tomorrow.
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be careful not to hydrolock your engine.
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Just got the head off... Well chuffed!! :nerd:
Anyhoo, here's a pic of my head gasket still on the bottom end. Are there any signs/symptoms visible on the pic that show head gasket failure?? I don't know if thats possible or not. I was expecting to see a crack or something like that :undecided:
(http://img29.picoodle.com/img/img29/4/2/26/f_HeadGasket2m_72e6b13.jpg)
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It does look a bit knacked along the back part, but from that pic it doesn't look blown to me. As the head's off give it a good clean up with Mr Muscle oven cleaner and check for cracks.
Nick
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dont forget to have a look on the bottom as well :grin:
cant see anything that leaps out at me, bit of black on #1 and #4, but that could just be oil...
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Cheers guys.
The bottom of the gasket is even crustier, with very large lumps of crud around the channel holes, but there isn't any obvious cracks. While the head is off I'm going to do stem seals etc. so even if the head gasket was "okay", it isn't a completely wasted job. I would guess its the original gasket, so it doesn't hurt being changed anyway, plus there may be a hairline crack I can't see.
Can't wait to get it running again!
PS As an aside, I found the crankcase breather was full to the brim of mayo! This might have been adding to the smoke coming out the exhaust.
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It's worth checking th eoil cooler as these are know to fail causig oil and water to mix.
Nick
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It's worth checking th eoil cooler as these are know to fail causig oil and water to mix.
Good suggestion Nick, but i'm not getting oil in the water (and the cooler apparently is more likely to let oil in, rather than water out), and there was no mayo in the engine.
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UPDATE...
Well, I've just finished putting the head back on and fired her up for the first time in nearly a month. Its been a long time and I was getting serious withdrawl symptoms. It took me so long because a) everything was a biatch to get off, and b) I took my time and painted up the engine bits (valve cover etc.) as I went along. I've been going to work on the train which has been a right pain in the ass.
She started first time, which was nice! Its running sweetly so far but i couldn't fully test it as the exhaust is clanging around (I must be a complete p#ssy as I can't get the exhaust rubbers back on)
I'll update this post again in a few days when I've had chance to test to see if the water loss issue has gone!! :undecided:
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Solved...
Good news... 400 Miles now covered and no discernable water loss. Happy days. :tongue:
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well done you're a braver man than me! i would love to do this kind of stuff but the project is already in bits and i havent done much to it yet :undecided:
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welldone mate. Im glad u sorted it. :cool:
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Good Effort Now Enjoy