GolfGTIforum.co.uk
Model specific boards => Golf mk5 => Topic started by: Fatandre on 17 February 2008, 03:02
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Hi there you guys. Just came home and I must say I just raced a another GTI with a DSG from a red light stop and I kicked its ass!!! :cool: :cool: Could it be because he was a worse driver but then on the other hand, what are you supposed to do when driving a automatic? Absolutly nothing, Just press the pedal to the metal, right. I am so proud of myself. Just wanted to share this with you.
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errr I love my manual too , but I'm sorry the facts are that DSG is quicker esp if you engage launch control.
I feel you may get some 'feedback' on the automatic slur lol , its a sophisticated box and certainly not auto as we traditionally know it.
but then I think you are probably just prodding the DSG guys :grin
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You're great :rolleyes:
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Pah! I destroyed an Evo yesterday in my MKII 8v becuase of my low down torque. I'm a driving god!
Nick
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Hmmmm not sure about the above posts... but I much prefer the manual!! I know the DSG gets alot of good press on here but I think i share the comments of the EVo review team here!
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Fatandre - Such comparisons are, frankly, a bit immature in my opinion. So much depends on both the driver and things like tyre condition and type.
Did the other driver use the paddles or just let D or S work it? And how do you know the other GTI was a DSG version?
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Hi there you guys. Just came home and I must say I just raced a another GTI with a DSG from a red light stop and I kicked its ass!!! :cool: :cool: Could it be because he was a worse driver but then on the other hand, what are you supposed to do when driving a automatic? Absolutly nothing, Just press the pedal to the metal, right. I am so proud of myself. Just wanted to share this with you.
I got wood after reading that.
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Fatandre's got a periscope to see into other peeps cars :laugh:
Going to add it to my stealth list :wink: :rolleyes:
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lol!
Poor guy :grin:
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I talked to him after this. I know this was a bit childish, but what the hell. We arent different from children after all, the only thing that changes are the toys. :grin: :laugh:. I have nothing against the auto folks. He had the S mode on.
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lol.
At least the guy was ok with coming second :grin:
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I talked to him after this. I know this was a bit childish, but what the hell. We arent different from children after all, the only thing that changes are the toys. :grin: :laugh:. I have nothing against the auto folks. He had the S mode on.
....No problems about the child in us - I don't mind growing old just as long as I don't have to grow up! :grin:
Fair enough, but the DSG should be faster than a manual if driven by an expert. Why? - Because the DSG gear shifts are faultless and faster than humanly possible. That's not the reason I chose DSG though :cool:
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I've had the DSG for a month, and when a manual car has a go, I slow down on purpose because I like to make other people happy :grin:
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Fatandre,
DO NOT watch this video or you will come down from your obvious high ! :drool: :huh: :grin::
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=2ScBruTdjaI
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....That Japanese vid is brilliant! I've seen it so many times and still enjoy it :smiley:
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S mode? n00b! :tongue:
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I've been driving around in a manual silver gti as a replacement as mine gets repaired, and i just CANNOT see the gear change in a manual being quicker than the dsg :laugh:
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Although I have a manual, I agree with the DSG owners on this one. DSG is faster in the right hands.
But manual is fun too.
All mk5 GTIs are fun. :smiley: :smiley:
So Fantandre, don't get bugged down you didn't get the DSG version.
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Although I have a manual, I agree with the DSG owners on this one. DSG is faster in the right hands.
But manual is fun too.
All mk5 GTIs are fun. :smiley: :smiley:
So Fantandre, don't get bugged down you didn't get the DSG version.
Bugged down? Man, I would never buy a GTI automatic. But thats just me.
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Bugged down? Man, I would never buy a GTI automatic. But thats just me.
You may not have automatic, but you did choose a car with:
-power steering (for wusses with spindly arms)
-brakes that work, generally (brakes are for wusses)
-Synchromesh (for wusses whose double declutches go wrong)
-a turbo (for wusses who can't deal with the narrow power band of a normally aspirated engine)
-comfy seats (for wusses, generally)
-cup holders (for drive-thru addicts)
-a radio (if you need entertaining, you're clearly driving like a wuss!)
If you were a real man, you'd have bought a car without such comforts, surely?
:evil:
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Bugged down? Man, I would never buy a GTI automatic. But thats just me.
You may not have automatic, but you did choose a car with:
-power steering (for wusses with spindly arms)
-brakes that work, generally (brakes are for wusses)
-Synchromesh (for wusses whose double declutches go wrong)
-a turbo (for wusses who can't deal with the narrow power band of a normally aspirated engine)
-comfy seats (for wusses, generally)
-cup holders (for drive-thru addicts)
-a radio (if you need entertaining, you're clearly driving like a wuss!)
If you were a real man, you'd have bought a car without such comforts, surely?
:evil:
I think you are right. Thats why I am saving for a 1968 Camaro SS :wink: :cool:
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S mode? n00b! :tongue:
....You don't know how right you are!!
I've now done nearly 45,000 miles in my DSG but for the first 1k I didn't shift out of D and then for about the next 20k I only used S mode for overtakes or having fun in the twisties or going through roundabouts. Then I did a high performance driving training day on public roads with a blue light instructor. He got me using Manual with the paddles and now I use nothing else except popping into D for traffic crawls or urban. In other words I drive my DSG exactly like a Manual. :smiley:
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From all this writing I have planned on goint to the dealer and try this DSG!!!
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No one says dsg isnt faster... Its just that its really an auto box with a quick change. i like to be in total control, which is something the DSG simply does not offer.
And before everyone jumps in says that you are, can someone answer the following question.
If in D, S or manual mode you floor the throttle will box automatically change gears for you when you approach the red line??
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Yes, yes and yes
It'll change up automatically in any mode, but unless you keep your foot flat to the floor the box will change up earlier in D mode. :nerd:
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No one says dsg isnt faster... Its just that its really an auto box with a quick change. i like to be in total control, which is something the DSG simply does not offer.
....You're so wrong! It's actually a Manual box with two clutches. In Manual mode you are exactly in control as with a conventional Manual - The only difference is that you use your fingers rather than wrist and left foot to change gear when YOU want. And YOU can override either D or S modes whenever YOU want. That's being in control.
But each to their own regarding their preference. But for me, DSG is a no-brainer. In over 40 years of driving I've both owned and driven manuals and automatics and DSG is the best of both worlds. :cool:
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My sentiments exactly RR :smiley:
Remember young ones:-
"With age and maturity comes great wisdom" :wink:
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and arthritis and piles^
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No one says dsg isnt faster... Its just that its really an auto box with a quick change. i like to be in total control, which is something the DSG simply does not offer.
Um you can be in control with DSG. Just press the paddles to select the gear you want.
If in D, S or manual mode you floor the throttle will box automatically change gears for you when you approach the red line??
According to the manual, it'll change up if you get to the rev limiter. I'd prefer that to having the engine bouncing on rev-limiter mid overtake. Wouldn't you?
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No one says dsg isnt faster... Its just that its really an auto box with a quick change. i like to be in total control, which is something the DSG simply does not offer.
....You're so wrong! It's actually a Manual box with two clutches. In Manual mode you are exactly in control as with a conventional Manual - The only difference is that you use your fingers rather than wrist and left foot to change gear when YOU want. And YOU can override either D or S modes whenever YOU want. That's being in control.
But each to their own regarding their preference. But for me, DSG is a no-brainer. In over 40 years od driving I've both owned and driven manuals and automatics and DSG is the best of both worlds. :cool:
When i test drove the DSG, in manual it would not let me change up from 4th at a low speed. For an engine with such low down grunt this shoulddnt be a problem. Not total control more like the system thinks it knows better in some situations.
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and arthritis and piles^
Have you been looking again Topher :rolleyes:
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No one says dsg isnt faster... Its just that its really an auto box with a quick change. i like to be in total control, which is something the DSG simply does not offer.
....You're so wrong! It's actually a Manual box with two clutches. In Manual mode you are exactly in control as with a conventional Manual - The only difference is that you use your fingers rather than wrist and left foot to change gear when YOU want. And YOU can override either D or S modes whenever YOU want. That's being in control.
But each to their own regarding their preference. But for me, DSG is a no-brainer. In over 40 years od driving I've both owned and driven manuals and automatics and DSG is the best of both worlds. :cool:
When i test drove the DSG, in manual it would not let me change up from 4th at a low speed. For an engine with such low down grunt this shoulddnt be a problem. Not total control more like the system thinks it knows better in some situations.
It probably does know better - in most situations - over most drivers :wink:
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When i test drove the DSG, in manual it would not let me change up from 4th at a low speed. For an engine with such low down grunt this shoulddnt be a problem. Not total control more like the system thinks it knows better in some situations.
When in 'D' mode, my DSG if anything chooses a higher gear than I'd normally have chosen for myself. The engine's a lot more torquey at low revs than in my old car, and I'm still getting used to not being worried about it.
Are you sure that you know better than the people who programmed the box to protect the engine? What revs was the car pulling in 4th when you tried to change up?
Usually, people who want control of a gearbox are concerned about what the box will do when they're driving the car rapidly - the most critical moments being when you want the power delivery to be smooth without interruption (e.g. when powering out of a corner, or braking hard and not wanting the car to change up a gear coming up to the next in a sequence of close bends, or when you're going for the overtake and you want it to use all the revs up to the red line without an early change.
I've never heard of anyone complaining that the DSG doesn't allow you to choose a higher gear than you want. If it was in 'S' mode, maybe, but in 'D' mode, it's definitely set up for fuel economy when you're light on the throttle - i.e. the lowest revs possible to reduce engine friction (but high enough so the engine isn't laboured).
None of this matters, as there's always the manual option, but as someone who would never buy an auto box on principle before, the DSG really has totally changed my opinion - though I don't think there are too many alternative cars that have something as good.
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....It's as Andy says.
But I'll just add that when kissing the red line the revs don't give the optimum power - You're better off at around 5,000 revs or wherever the power/torque curves are for your car. That's what I like about using the paddles - You have so much reliable control. :smiley:
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Just want to add that I don't want to be seen to be having a go at people who go for the manual option, but there are going to be people out there wondering between DSG and manual, and I don't want them to plump for the manual as a result of getting the wrong impression about what the DSG can and cannot do.
In manual mode, as far as I can tell, the car is precisely the same as a manual except:
a) You can't skip gears in a single movement (e.g. to go from 5th to 2nd takes a three presses on the paddle. The only situation I can think of where this may be less than perfect in principle is if, for example, you are decelerating from a fast straight into a tight 2nd gear corner. What I'd do in manual is to brake with the car still in 5th, then either heel and toe blip and change straight to 2nd once the speed is much reduced, or stop braking, blip and change then turn in, power on. If your heel and toe goes wrong (and mine are rarely perfect), then you waste time and composure before the turn. With DSG, you simply blip your way through the gears whilst concentrating primarily on braking and line, the box delivering you smoothly into 2nd safely in time for the start of the corner, when you can apply power to drive through. For the perfect driver, I can imagine them managing to do the 5th->2nd heel/toe/brake/turn more fluidly than if the gearbox is having to ratchet down the gears, but perhaps this is something limited to racing drivers. I enjoyed having a go in a manual at this sort of stuff, but 99% of the time I'd fluff it in one way or another.
b) It won't let you bounce the engine off the rev limiter. I really can't see the downside to this. If you're bouncing off the limiter, it's because you want power but you've run out of revs. The way to fix the problem in a manual is to change up and apply power again (or to back off from the overtake :-) ). The DSG does the right thing, only faster, so you have less time exposed on the wrong side of the road, the engine giving no power but making a funny sound :-)
d) There is far less loss of thrust when changing gears. I don't think a human can out perform the gearchanges, so when you're accelerating, the engine in a DSG car is spending less time waiting for you to sort your pedal and stick out, and more time actually applying power to the road.
In short, I think the DSG is a compelling driver's tool, not something that people who enjoy driving should automatically discount because it's "an automatic".
I like driving, and I think DSG adds something to the experience, not takes it away.
Just my views :laugh:
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Oops option (c) disappeared :grin:
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....Excellently written, Andy! :smiley: :smiley: :smiley: :smiley:
And on Andy's point "a)": Going from say 5th to 2nd is as fast as literally "click-click-click". Though I would argue that you should have probably been more aware of the 2nd gear bend ahead and be in 4th - In my case I'd hope to already be paddle shifting down the box as I approach and also using the engine braking. But there are occasions when the need for 2nd might take you by surprise.
Btw, less opportunity to slip and wear clutches on DSG (folks, does your wifey/gf who isn't into cars drive your manual GTI? :evil:)
:cool:
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Oops option (c) disappeared :grin:
I just remembered what (c) it was.
DSG differs from manual in that it costs extra :grin:
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....Excellently written, Andy! :smiley: :smiley: :smiley: :smiley:
And on Andy's point "a)": Going from say 5th to 2nd is as fast as literally "click-click-click". Though I would argue that you should have probably been more aware of the 2nd gear bend ahead and be in 4th - In my case I'd hope to already be paddle shifting down the box as I approach and also using the engine braking. But there are occasions when the need for 2nd might take you by surprise.
Btw, less opportunity to slip and wear clutches on DSG (folks, does your wifey/gf who isn't into cars drive your manual GTI? :evil:)
:cool:
Funnily enough, I was taught not to change down through gears coming to a bend or roundabout with a manual, but simply to focus on braking and line, with just a single gearchange into the *right* gear just before you finish the braking.
Even if you're in 6th and want to do a 2nd gear bend, the engine's fine to leave in gear in 6th right down to the low speed. In doing so, you don't add additional unsettling movements to the car (as is sort of inevitable a little with heel and toe). Smooth, smooth smooth! That's what the instructor would always yell.
Ever since I stopped changing down through the gears on a manual, those big gear changes started being really easy.
What's the right gear?
Well, as the instructor said, you won't know until you have the information you need to make that decision, so why change to what is almost certain to be the wrong gear in the meantime?
That advice has always stuck with me. What does everyone else think about that?
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Surely if your flying round a corner at speed and you wanna come down the gears fast, id rather have BOTH hands planted on the wheel STILL rather the faffing around with a gear lever and clutch pedal.
Ive been out and had my old GTi test driven by an ex pro tigersix racing driver, and boy i can assure you, the dsg is faultless in every down change it chooses itself that it makes, and the human error and possibly loosing control of the car is reduced. oh and by the way the finger nail marks in the passenger seat door handle from me crapping myself still exsist to this day as far as i know!.
Just a foot note to add, accoarding to my local friend at the vw dealership, dsg GTi's are selling now at a 3/1 ratio over a manual new car order.
DSG all day long for me
Cant wait to get Into the driving seat of one.Its gonna be a long 2 weeks :cry: