GolfGTIforum.co.uk
Model specific boards => Golf mk5 => Topic started by: joesgti on 12 February 2008, 13:59
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so i work with my dad and he told me to go to the shop to get my puppy some food (rottweiler :evil:) anyways i couldnt find my keys so i took my dads car, and i gave it some (alot of) beans :grin:
anyways i honestly dont think its much quicker than mine!!! once you get past 5,000 revs then the engine does come alive and in first you can floor it an there is no wheels spin whatsoever!! but cruising at 30mph and then putting metal to metal, it dosnt feel any quicker!! WTF is goin on here :huh:
ah well it was fun and fast, and i can confirm that a carrera 4s goes round corners a HELL of alot fater than a gti :laugh: and also stops a hell of a lot faster than a gti :grin: :grin:
oh and one last thing........i apologise to anybody in heysham village that was staring at me or waving there arms telling me to slow down or even deafened by the exhaust note just before it hit the limiter. :grin: :grin: :grin:
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Hi Joe
Im near you in Preston and my dads also got a 4s which I can confirm when ive got the remap on isnt that much faster
Id agree the brakes and handling are better but neither my dad or a pal of mine with a C2S can get past me on anything bar 1/2 mile straights - and again when im following they cant get away until over 100.
Some of the old dears probably thought the reactor had gone critical you naughty boy.
Nice car 4s what colour is it?
Cheers
Yanek
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Some of the old dears probably thought the reactor had gone critical you naughty boy.
Nice one HAHAH you obviously know heysham :grin: :grin:
il post pics now :evil:
and before anybody starts im not saying my car is faster than a 4s, im just saying that a 4s isnt much faster except at stopping and in first and round corners :laugh: :grin: :grin:
(http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd153/joesgti/Picture004-1.jpg)
(http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd153/joesgti/Picture005-2.jpg)
(http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd153/joesgti/Picture006-1.jpg)
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i find this amusing ( not in a bad way)
but its a hot hatch...
a c4s is going to be significatly faster than your golf mate..
0-60
0-100
30-70
in fact over every measurable distance/speed.
the only time your car would keep up is if they rolled off a cliff at the same time... :laugh:
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Lovely looking motor that joe! I'm so jealous your old man has one of those and you get to drive it! My dad has a LandRover Defender - dreadful thing!! Sound like you had fun anyway - good job :evil:
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i find this amusing ( not in a bad way)
but its a hot hatch...
a c4s is going to be significatly faster than your golf mate..
0-60
0-100
30-70
in fact over every measurable distance/speed.
the only time your car would keep up is if they rolled off a cliff at the same time... :laugh:
thats what you would think i know, i totally agree and i sound stupid and im-mature saying this but i am telling the truth, i have driven both back to back on the same roads and i dont believe there to be much difference in torque onece moving :huh:
i also had a race down the heysham bypass with me in mine and him in his and rolling at 30, each car then flooring it.....there is not much in it, untill he hits 80 and buy buy gti :sad: :laugh: :laugh:
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Heres some more of my thoughts for what there worth.
I can bench mark my cars from a given point near me. Pulling out from a t junction onto a long straight up to a left turn always braking at the same point top speed managed in my cars.
My wifes RS6 AVANT 450BHP 105 mph in s auto mode
My gti 250 (allegedly) manual Revo Remap 101mph
My Old Cars
E46 M3 105MPH
Ferrari 355 118mph
Dads C4S old shape though 104mph not 997
Mates 997 C2S 105mph
dont ask me why the Gti is so fast but I know it is because ive measured it. When I tried it I couldnt believe it myself and had to go back and try again because it must have been wrong. It wasnt
Again same thing my mates couldnt beleive that they struggled to get past in much more powerfull cars.
Cheers
Yanek
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i find this amusing ( not in a bad way)
but its a hot hatch...
a c4s is going to be significatly faster than your golf mate..
0-60
0-100
30-70
in fact over every measurable distance/speed.
the only time your car would keep up is if they rolled off a cliff at the same time... :laugh:
totally
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C4S cab
1560kg
355bhp. With 4wd transmission loss = 288bhp
295lb ft
A tuned GTI
1500kg
270bhp. with 2wd transmission loss 233bhp
295lb ft
The 911 does have a power advantage so would win a drag, and in gear acceleration it would obviously take it.
As for feeling quicker, thats all a matter of perception. A 911 is a seriously sorted car and the handling is not far from outstanding therefore giving you a more confident feeling behind the wheel. It may not feel faster, but it certainly is.
The torque is whats making it feel similar as acceleration would be pretty close at lower speeds
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You must have bags of cement in your boot if it weigh's 1 1/2 ton.
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You must have bags of cement in your boot if it weigh's 1 1/2 ton.
Took the weight from the handbook.
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You must have bags of cement in your boot if it weigh's 1 1/2 ton.
Took the weight from the handbook.
GTi 1336kg, R32 1510kg.
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To be objective ive just tried it again benchmarking between two points
RS6 same power to weight as 4s pretty much - 6mph faster over the given distance than my Gti with remap on.
Mates bringing his 997 2s round tomorrow night to double check
One thing i did think of - how accurate are VW Speedo's if mine says im doing 101mph is it accurate hence why my mates coming round if its not raining.
I expect from previous tussles that hell pull away about 2-4 cars lengths up to 100 keeping a safe between us
Ill let you know what happens cause its bugging me now
fortunately nice flat long starights with no junction near me
well see
you are right 997 much more sorted car - just given this benchmark I use I was stunned how fast the gti was.
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ahaa, it seems i may have been right in thinking that the torque is not much difference between the two cars, the carerra sounds amazing and handles like no other car i have driven (except f430 :drool:) :smiley:
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A GTI is 1336kg as a manual and 1355kg as a DSG
Edition 30 is around 15kg extra.
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I can pretty much belive what you say Joe.
We had a fall out... Cough Cough on holiday with a BMW M3 (ok fine its not a Porsche but its close) and with all due respect the M3 had nothing on the GTi.
He came flying from behind and swerved in front of us narrowly missing us and then kept trying to pass the car in front who would not let him pass (Gotta love drivers like that)
When the M3 finally got the chance my dad (with a boot full of luggage, a teengager, a wife and 2 kiddies not to metnion himself floored the GTi and passed the M3. This peeved the BM driver off. How can a "golf" pass a M3? So he floored it and my dad floored it and up a mountain pass in a really nice left hand bend my dad kept flooring it. The Bm could hardly keep up and you could see he was trying.
Even through the bends where you would expect the Bmw to pass cos of better traction etc even then he could not pass.
I can safely say that on a straight or a drag the GTi does not stand a chance. But against most cars (even a Merc SLK) the Gti just has the advantage. For its size and weight etc its absolutely perfect.
Viva la GTi!
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Weight of boringness of this thread 32kg
Just to say, started off awesome then got very boring when you all decided to talk about weights of cars. just drive them for f**ks sake!
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I can pretty much belive what you say Joe.
We had a fall out... Cough Cough on holiday with a BMW M3 (ok fine its not a Porsche but its close) and with all due respect the M3 had nothing on the GTi.
He came flying from behind and swerved in front of us narrowly missing us and then kept trying to pass the car in front who would not let him pass (Gotta love drivers like that)
When the M3 finally got the chance my dad (with a boot full of luggage, a teengager, a wife and 2 kiddies not to metnion himself floored the GTi and passed the M3. This peeved the BM driver off. How can a "golf" pass a M3? So he floored it and my dad floored it and up a mountain pass in a really nice left hand bend my dad kept flooring it. The Bm could hardly keep up and you could see he was trying.
Even through the bends where you would expect the Bmw to pass cos of better traction etc even then he could not pass.
I can safely say that on a straight or a drag the GTi does not stand a chance. But against most cars (even a Merc SLK) the Gti just has the advantage. For its size and weight etc its absolutely perfect.
Viva la GTi!
John-o, as a previous owner of E46 M3 would you care to comment? I find it hard to believe that loaded FWD GTI would be on par with RWD M3 that has more torques, more horsies, better steering and handling.... :huh: :lipsrsealed:
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Nice. This could get interesting :laugh:
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Nice. This could get interesting :laugh:
Or it could get really really boring...lol
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Nice. This could get interesting :laugh:
Or it could get really really boring...lol
What do you mean could?
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It could get interesting because I have the feeling that John-O is gonna come. MAke a few comments. Im gonna be called a liar most probably. Chaos will ensue.
And in the end of it all it will probably boil down to what skills the driver has...
Thats why it could :smiley:
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Its simply true that some cars feel alot faster than others. i think my brothers Gttdi feels faster than the R32.... but I know its sure as hell aint!! Not by a long shot. This could simply come down to power delivery.. and the way the car feels when you start to hit serious speeds. In my old C2 120 felt like warp speed 9 in the R I sometimes find myself doing that without realising :cool:
How agressive the gear change is also adds to the speed thru the gears and the way the car jolts forward and the rear dips when the power is poured on.
My mate has a C2S and has said many a time he was being followed by an R32 and he simply couldnt get away from it until he was pushing more than double the speed limit. Thats was on the motorway but has found the same on most roads... He keeps well away from R32's now :grin:
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John-o, as a previous owner of E46 M3 would you care to comment? I find it hard to believe that loaded FWD GTI would be on par with RWD M3 that has more torques, more horsies, better steering and handling.... :huh: :lipsrsealed:
you guys we are all friends ! (well some of us lol)
2 entirely different cars, 2 very diff power deliveries. 2 very different classes of car (25k vs originally 45k+)
And yes Micsta driver differences are prob the biggest variable.
std GTI no chance , ED30 nope , modified ED30 vs E46 M3 would be reasonably close I reckon.
The golf hits hard early , whereas an M3 just goes on and on.....
However in bends my ED30 wouldnt even get near my M3 for corner speed.
GTI handling is good but the limits are so much lower. (although an M3 can understeer badly if you drive it in a certain way!)
GTI is great , M3 is great , both in very different ways.
GTI is ultimately a compromise , M3 is not and as a driving experience when 'pushing on' the 'feel' is sublime.
Its also clear however that cars that were 'fast' 5 or 10 years ago are no longer unassailable in a hot hatch.
If I had the choice I'd buy an M3 CSL tommorrow as an even more distilled version of the M3.
I love my ED30 , but I always hanker back to an M3 which says it all really :evil:
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Nice right up John-o
So the M3 should kick a Gti off the road. Then Im left to three conclusions:
1. The driver of the M3 was a useless driver and underused what power the M3 has.
2. My dad is the ultimate driver :rolleyes:
3. It was not a M3?? Maybe a chavvy 320 with a M3 bodykit, rims and badges???
I am gonna go with number one.
Does that sound about fair?
Mike
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cheers!
Could be a combination of all 3 !
something as simple as poor set of tyres on the M3 could easily level the playing field = no confidence = GTI wins
Too many variables but ultimately yes Id say an M3 should be faster (esp if you were 3 up! + xxx kg?)
forgot to mention , a friend of mine also has an M3 conv , so we will have a play before and after my remap for a definitive answer lol
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Hi guys
just back from the comparison - feels like one of the david v goliath tests from evo etc
Dry conditions car reads 5 degrees C V quiet country roads. Ive lots of experience driving 993 Turbo C4S, 996 TURBO AND C4s and quite a bit 997 C2S. Both of us very similar standard of driving reasonably good but realistic not to push beyong our capabilities and the safety of others ie driving like numptys when other people are using the same road which were fortunate living near some great unused country roads.
From a standing start absolutely no contest C2S eats the golf alive many car lengths ahead by 100. Main problem is the traction with the remap on. At first the 911 shoots away and you think bloody hell im going nowwhere after that the 911 advance slows quite a bit until after 100 when it really shows another level and is off again. I think the golf speedo is a bit out as it feels more of a difference than 8-10mph as per my benchmark
Likewise my E46 M3 would have eaten the golf from stanstill as per John-o comments. Im the other way though apart from the engine which is sensational I never enjoyed mine that much and it was the most unreliable car ive ever owned 9 trips to dealer for warranty work in 18months. I much prefer the Gti and wouldnt have another standard one althought the noise of the CSL is worth the money in itself.
From a 2nd gear rolling start though the 911s advantage is a lot less clear. Still pulls away but not as dramatically as above roughly 3-5 car lengths by 100
Where it is quite even is on the move in 3rd/4th/5th in sweeping bends, tighter corners, short burst and medium straights the 911 cant really get away much at all and almost no chance of getting past. Here the Gti can stick with the 911 and feels absolutely brilliant. Where the chances to pass are, it would come down to the difference in braking which is pretty monumental. The 911's are just in a different league and the golf struggles in comparison.
The other area is body control upto 80-90 the golf is fine - any faster on the sweepers and again the 911 shows an altogehter superior poise where the upright golf starts to struggle quite a bit.
My conclusion after this is 911 quite a bit faster and far superior car but in the right circumstances the Golf could give a 997 a fright for a few miles. Taking into account my pal paid 55k for his I paid 17.9k for mine the Golf wins in delivering massive bang for your bucks and is also bleeding billiant. After driving mine with remap on my pal got out v impressed and this from someone who doesnt like golfs.
Theres my tenpeneth
Cheers
Yanek
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My mate has a C2S and has said many a time he was being followed by an R32 and he simply couldnt get away from it until he was pushing more than double the speed limit. Thats was on the motorway but has found the same on most roads... He keeps well away from R32's now :grin:
bollocks
C2S has more power and fatter tires....
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right then..i'm still amused..
a golf gti or a golf r32 will not keep up witha e46 m3 or a 997 carrera 2s.
on windy roads the biggest influence is driver ability, but same driver in each car, the m3 and the porsche will win.
these are facts.
i love my golf to bits, but its a 20k hot hatch, it is not and never will be compared to the like of an e46 m3 or 997 ( any version) in terms of performance and drivability...
i have owned some of the finest cars available over the last 5 years(SL55, dms tuned rs6, 997 turbo, e60 M5, 2 x e46 m3's and a csl) and whilst the golf is the best all round car ( to include dynamics/handling/comfort/practicality/value for money etc) that i have ever owned in the real world, i am very realistic in its short comings...
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Pah M3 CSL's ain't all that, this one can't even shake a metro let alone a MKV Gti.
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=TXPMV8wyxRs
Nick
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Horney. I cant watch the video.
But Im sure at the end of the day it all comes to driver skills. . . . .
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good video but how do you know its a rover?? :huh:
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Cause it belongs to a friend of a guy who posted this video on Retro Rides.
here's the metro in question:
(http://www.metropower.co.uk/media/gallery/1.8_sleeper/2.jpg)
Nick
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Cause it belongs to a friend of a guy who posted this video on Retro Rides.
here's the metro in question:
(http://www.metropower.co.uk/media/gallery/1.8_sleeper/2.jpg)
Nick
HAHAHA thats quality!!!!! any pics of the engine??? :grin:
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http://www.metropower.co.uk/forum/forums/get-attachment.asp?attachmentid=20153
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right then..i'm still amused..
a golf gti or a golf r32 will not keep up witha e46 m3 or a 997 carrera 2s.
on windy roads the biggest influence is driver ability, but same driver in each car, the m3 and the porsche will win.
these are facts.
i love my golf to bits, but its a 20k hot hatch, it is not and never will be compared to the like of an e46 m3 or 997 ( any version) in terms of performance and drivability...
i have owned some of the finest cars available over the last 5 years(SL55, dms tuned rs6, 997 turbo, e60 M5, 2 x e46 m3's and a csl) and whilst the golf is the best all round car ( to include dynamics/handling/comfort/practicality/value for money etc) that i have ever owned in the real world, i am very realistic in its short comings...
Dude im not being dissolusioned about what a golf can or cant do! This came from a C2S owner who simply said its not as easy as you would imagine getting away from an R. It wasnt a drag race or on a circuit...this was simply on a strech of motorway. With other cars on the road, the only point he was making was that its not as easy as you think to blow other cars into dust... Golf or otherwise. 4-5 car lengths can easily be made up by a good driver on a twisty road, or under breaking.
Obviously the porka is the faster car... as are all the others you mentioned. Putting the pedal to the metal can be done by anyone... its braking and the ability to handle your car that can make it that little bit faster.. or the person in the faster cars inability to do so that has the same effect.
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totally agree with you mate.
but the original statement was by member comparing like for like,based on his driving skills and that as i said earlier just isnt possible..
build quality will always play a part, as will the effect of torque/weight/ traction etc...but no one can honestly make the original comparison without either it being a/tongue in cheek or b/ dillusional :laugh:
what i would say is a well driven golf in a thouroughly entertaining propostion and you can really let go in one without any great feas of smashing 80 grands worth of metal to bits....you can also park them anywhere, get good economy most of the time and they are above all else, cool as f**k...
i know a man who has an e60 M5 and doesnt drive it fast in case of dents and stone chips.....
go figure :huh:
Jt :smiley:
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i know a man who has an e60 M5 and doesnt drive it fast in case of dents and stone chips.....
go figure
Then whats the bloody point of buying a M5??? !!!! :huh: :evil:
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i find this amusing ( not in a bad way)
but its a hot hatch...
a c4s is going to be significatly faster than your golf mate..
0-60
0-100
30-70
in fact over every measurable distance/speed.
the only time your car would keep up is if they rolled off a cliff at the same time... :laugh:
Er.... No!
I can more than belive what matey is saying mate..
Basic power /weight for a start..
C4S Cab 1500+kgs and 350bhp = 230bhp/tonne
Modded Ed30 1350kgs and 310bhp = Guess what...... 230bhp/tonne.
So funny enough, there won't be a lot in it. When speeds get north of 100-120mph, then yes the Porker will pull away. As the old saying goes "There's no replacement for displacement" :wink:.. But general driving the Porker would struggle to go anywhere.. I for one am looking forward to suprising a few M3's, Carrera's etc with my hammer map.. :evil:
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Yay!!
Somebody stands up for me!
Thanks :cool:
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i find this amusing ( not in a bad way)
but its a hot hatch...
a c4s is going to be significatly faster than your golf mate..
0-60
0-100
30-70
in fact over every measurable distance/speed.
the only time your car would keep up is if they rolled off a cliff at the same time... :laugh:
Er.... No!
I can more than belive what matey is saying mate..
Basic power /weight for a start..
C4S Cab 1500+kgs and 350bhp = 230bhp/tonne
Modded Ed30 1350kgs and 310bhp = Guess what...... 230bhp/tonne.
So funny enough, there won't be a lot in it. When speeds get north of 100-120mph, then yes the Porker will pull away. As the old saying goes "There's no replacement for displacement" :wink:.. But general driving the Porker would struggle to go anywhere.. I for one am looking forward to suprising a few M3's, Carrera's etc with my hammer map.. :evil:
make sure it is dry
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dont think even dry would make a difference...getting 310 down through the front wheels is tough.
in a straight line and already rolling, wtih good tyres and 98 ron fuel, you might, and i mean might hold the initial 4wd launch gap...for a short period of time
go round some bends and it would be good night.
loving the dub mentality though..have a friend with a 350 bhp corrado..and he's convinced it will beat a 997 turbo....
0-60 3.5 seconds.....
0-100 sub 8 seconds.... :shocked:
the corrado is real fast dont get me wrong, but you have to be realistic about things....
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my dad gets his turbo in about 15 days!! carrera white cabriolet with 20"rims and full aero kit :drool: :drool:
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my dad gets his turbo in about 15 days!! carrera white cabriolet with 20"rims and full aero kit :drool: :drool:
you gonna get a go it that joe? make sure you post some pics! :drool:
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You'll still get whipped by that metro, ha ha ha.
Nick
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yea il have a blast when hes away and leaves his keys on the side :grin: il post pics the day he gets it so itl be clean :evil:
yea horney, that metros a killer :laugh: better watch out for that sleeper :cool: