GolfGTIforum.co.uk
Model specific boards => Golf mk2 => Topic started by: cняis on 09 February 2008, 17:49
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EDIT 30/3/08:
See todays post!!! Page 4!!
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EDIT 23/2/08:
See todays post! Page 3!
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EDIT 16/2/08:
See todays post!!! Page 2!!
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The project Golf will not start.
Its been stood for 2 years, and started for the first time since storage around a month ago, using the battery off the daily. "Great" I thought. "Whack a new battery on and thats it". I noticed that the fuel pump didnt prime when i switched the ignition on, but it started/ran all the same. Ran for around 15 mins. Started it for a second time to make sure, no problems.
Fast forward to today. I bought a new battery for it, fitted it and wanted to show the Mrs that it actually ran...
Wouldnt start. :embarassed:
Again, the fuel pump will often not prime when the ignition is switched on. The car will fire almost straight away, then stall as soon as the key returns to position 2 (running position). Its almost as if the MAF is disconnected (all connections are clean), however it will continue to run only if the key is held into position 3 (starting position). It even revs up fine but I cant drive whilst holding the key into position 3!
I checked the obvious - loose connections, missing connectors, petrol (i even topped it up with fresh stuff), the only thing i noticed was a lack of knock sensor (its an early PB engine, and looks like nothing has ever been fitted, the block shows no sign of anything being mounted to it). I also noticed the ISV buzzing occasionally when the igniton was switched to position 2. :huh:
Why wont it start now but it started beautifully a month ago... and NOTHING has been touched!
Advice?
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Ignition switch.
easy to change.
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Ignition switch.
easy to change.
ok, where and how? :wink:
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take off steering wheel,
take off cowling,
take of stalks, unplugging as you go.
slightly tricky bit, if its got a larger spline steering wheel boss you'll need to remove the collar. if not undo the allen key headed bolt and slide the metal surround off the steering collar, which holds the ignition switch.
there is a little screw to undo to take the ignition switch off.
thats pretty much it, may vary slightly from what i just said but thats the essence of it.
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ta very much! :smiley:
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you gotta get a knock sensor on it, the ECU wont advance the timing otherwise! Sounds like it wasn't a PB block at all, but a DX or EV K-Jet block. All PB lumps have a knock sensor!
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you gotta get a knock sensor on it, the ECU wont advance the timing otherwise! Sounds like it wasn't a PB block at all, but a DX or EV K-Jet block. All PB lumps have a knock sensor!
the block looks very similar to the 90 spec one i have, earth points on the head are in a slightly different place mind.
the wiring which the knock sensor would plug into does exist (there's a connector there), as does the hole to mount it. judging by the condition of the connector and the hole where the knock sensor would mount, i dont think its had one fitted for a while if at all.
hmm. :huh:
best place to get one?
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yep like i said, it'll be a k-jet or carby lump. all 1.8 lumps are identical :)
scrappy would be where I'd look, look at any 4 pot VW/SEAT/Audi 8v lump. I put a 2e one from a MK3 on my 1.8 block :)
edit: you'll want to run a tap down the thread, and clean up the mounting face till its proper shiny else the sensor wont get a good readng and/or your torque figures will be off, the torque setting is very important!
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take off steering wheel,
take off cowling,
take of stalks, unplugging as you go.
slightly tricky bit, if its got a larger spline steering wheel boss you'll need to remove the collar. if not undo the allen key headed bolt and slide the metal surround off the steering collar, which holds the ignition switch.
there is a little screw to undo to take the ignition switch off.
thats pretty much it, may vary slightly from what i just said but thats the essence of it.
Had this with my golf over christmas but just got a compete steering column with ignition from the scrappy as i never had a puller!!
be carefull holding the key for the engine to run tho because if your starter stays engaged like mine did it soon chews the starter pinion to bits!!
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mine went and i took the opportunity and fitted a push-start to the left of the steering wheel under the blanking plate thingy... was easier than replacing the ignition switch!! :tongue:
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Right then so as quoted above i have removed the steering wheel, all the stalks, the allen bolt holding the ignition switch collar in, but the frikkin collar wont come off!! i've tried beating it off with a hammer and small bolster an the thing wont budge! HELP! i want to finish this by today!!
:cry:
Im referring to the silver (alloy) surround which hold the ignition switch and barrel etc:
(http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w167/crevice1984/HPIM1282.jpg)
edit: do i need to remove the spline adapter? how might i do that?
edit 2: might have found the answer! http://www.golfgtiforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=64336.msg498551#msg498551
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ARGH the spline adapter wont come off with repeated beating. borrowing a puller from a mate, do you think this will work?
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ive used a puller before, depends how badly it is siezed on! If you smake the column hard enough it should collapse and cause the adaptor to pop off BUT you gotta retighten the allen bolt holding the ignition surround on 1st ;)
The other way is to undo the allen bolt and also remove the bolt at the base of the column holding on the universal joint, then the entire column will come out giving better access to the ign switch screw
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ive used a puller before, depends how badly it is siezed on! If you smake the column hard enough it should collapse and cause the adaptor to pop off BUT you gotta retighten the allen bolt holding the ignition surround on 1st ;)
The other way is to undo the allen bolt and also remove the bolt at the base of the column holding on the universal joint, then the entire column will come out giving better access to the ign switch screw
sounds like i wasnt hitting it hard enough then, i didnt want to damage the thread on the wheel nut or rip the bolts out holding the column brackets on.
maybe i need a lump hammer!
mates coming round monday night with the puller, hopefully that will sort things. im sick of the sight of the car at the moment so wont bother til then.
ta! :smiley:
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thread the wheel nut on to stop the threads being damaged :)
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I got a complete column from the scrappy when mine went, much easyer!! then you need a 3mm drill to drill the barrels out so you can change them over and keep your original key :wink:
oh and if you have torque head bolts holding the column on, either drill the heads off the (the tails do turn out with a decent pair of longnose pliers) or tap them undone with a decent center punch. you can then replace the bolts with 2 8x25mm bolts
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are you talking about the main bracket that holds the column to the dash? If so theres no need to rmove it, just undo the single bolt holding the surround to the outer bracket and the UJ bolt. the column will come out th middle of the outer bracket :)
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ye i thought about that, but after I had removed the whole column from the car!! :rolleyes:
just wasnt sure!! :grin: :grin:
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so i got the puller tonight to remove the spline adapter. does the steering column surround allen bolt need putting back in before i start to pry the adapter off? :undecided:
next question. the end of the puller goes to a point. with that essentially sitting inside the steering column shaft, will it damage the end of the shaft whilst i do the puller up? (splay it open if you will?)
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it should be ok, normally the puller will chew up the adaptor rather than damage the column. if you're worried, thread the nut back on :)
You can put the surround bolt in if you like, but it wont make a difference. you only need it in if you plan to go the hammer route :)
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thanks buddy, always helpful!
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right well the puller would not grip the splie adapter firmly enough, so i went about removing the bolt connecting the UJ's to the inner steering column. The inner column came out without much fuss, so then i removed and replaced the ignition switch.
after re-inserting the inner steering column, i found that the UJ's will NOT slip back onto the inner column properly, no matter how hard i tried. i even cable-tied the spring in 2 places to compress it, stopping it from popping the UJ's back off. the inner column only sits inside the UJ about 0.5cm. this is with the UJ bolt removed as i realise the bottom of the inner column has a recess in it for the bolt to slide past.
any tips on getting the inner column back into the UJs fully?
i then thought "sod it" as i'd spent 90 mins trying to get the UJs back on, so i thought "i'll just test the ignition switch" as that is why the column came out to start with. so i placed the plug back onto the switch, turned the ignition, and..... same as before! :angry:
so the faffing switch was fine anyway!
so to recap, i uneccessarily paid for and fitted a new ignition switch which has not solved the problem and has left me with no steering!!
f###ing Golf.
could i be looking at a new ignition or fuel pump relay? if so where are these/what number are they? basically it will fire straight away but as soon as the key sits back into position 2 (running position) it cuts out. i have not disturbed any connections in the engine bay and all relays are pushed in/all fuses have been checked.
model is a 1989 early digi 8v gti (hazard switch on dash) so i appareciate the relay layout is different to my late 1990 8v
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the uj will only go on 1 way, so make sure you line up the missing spline tooth with the gap in the UJ. Then its just a case of keep trying till it goes in!
As for the fusebox differences, check my FAQ it shows you where all the reys are. 1 thing to check, make sure the blower works with the ignition on, as well as the headlights.
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yes the blower works, as do the headlights (i think) :huh:
any other ideas??
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im 99% sure the blower/headlights do work. assuming they do what am i looking to fix?
if they don't work, what then?
this is really annoying me now, im trying not to spend any monies here! :wink:
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well im stumped, can you check at the ign switch that you get 12v both at pin 15 and pin x with the ign on?
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well im stumped, can you check at the ign switch that you get 12v both at pin 15 and pin x with the ign on?
Thanks again, I will take a look. Will the "15" and "X" be stamped on the bottom of the ign switch? should i be checking for 12v in position 2 or 3?
I take it the best way to check this is to prise off the plug slightly whilst inserting multimeter probes between the switch and the plug? (Please excuse my ignorance!)
hypothetically speaking, if i have no 12v running through what am i looking to replace? (bearing in mind i have just fitted a brand new ign switch. Plus i swapped relay number 1 (#53), as it seemed to click on position 2, with a known good one from my daily golf and that made no difference)
(http://vwtech.no-ip.info/images/golf/pre90.gif)
A couple of side-notes:
I could not feel relay no.2 click when ign was switched on, thinking about it logically, shouldn't it click when position 2 is engaged? (fuel pump, what # is this meant to be, it has no # marked on it! edit: looks like "80 = MK2 digifant fuel pump relay") That said, the car will run when cranked but stall when it stops cranking over, surely that cant be a pump problem?
Also, when i knock it back from position 2, occasionally (after a failed start) the engine will almost backfire...
The biggest heartache is the fact that this car was running FINE 6 weeks ago. :angry:
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they will be marked on the switch, you should be able tyo put the probe of a multimeter in the back of the socket. if you dont get voltage to both in position 1 you got another dead switch, or something is up with the lock housing.
the pump should always prime at the 1st click of the key, if not this is probably the issue!
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it primes maybe 10% of the time when ign is switched to pos 2. it quite often primes AFTER i've tried starting it.
is this a knackered pump or just a relay problem? i take it i can test the relay #80 from my 1990 spec GTI? (which, as you have just said, will prime EVERY time i turned the key!)
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doubt its the pump, i recon its the ign switch, if not its the ecu at fault or the relay. remove all your battery/starter/alt wires and give em all a good clean till shint & refit, see if that helps. Next pop out the ecu, pull the plug on it and check for corrosion/water damage on the pins, if there is any clean it up and plug it back in, then find out how it got submerged in the 1st place!
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thanks rubjonny, i will roll my sleeves up and get stuck in :evil:
theres no great rush with this project, but i dont want it sitting in front the garage this time next year, rusting in pieces.
also i promised your mate i'd be along to grab a jade green bootlid at some stage... :undecided:
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ok boys and girls. :sad:
today i cleaned up ALL the earth points and cables, including those on the head. they were gleaming by the time i finished!
i also checked the ecu plug and pins for signs of water damage but the pins were very clean. still, i cleaned them up anyway.
then i went to start her up:
- it turns over strongly with a slight will to start but will not fire properly (unlike last month where it would fire then die as the ignition was returned to position 2)
- if i open the throttle whilst turning it over it will occasionally backfire :shocked: quite loud too! but will still not start.
- the ISV is always buzzing with the ignition in position 2 (is that normal?)
- the spark plugs looks black (but not sooty) and smell of petrol
- often i cannot hear the fuel pump prime when i switch the ignition on, but i seems to prime after?
what do you guys think... is there anything else i should be looking at?
i was wondering if i should replace the HT leads, would these be causing the problem?
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just sounds like the timing to me
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i see what you're saying, however i havent touched anything timing related since i've had the car, and it was starting/running fine in january! :undecided:
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Man I hate random faults. Mines doing the same but without the backfiring.
Nick
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i'd say before you turn evil against it, have it servied, change HT leads, spark plugs, oil and fuel filter. Then have the timing sorted, you may not have touched it but it might have messed up, as for the ignition going back to position 2, might it be the ignition barrel itself?
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aye a full service may help, sound like a ht leads 1+3 are reveresd or it misfiring like a b!tch. This will cause loud backfires if the leads are sparking before the head.
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i'll try the HT leads of my daily when i get chance. the oil is fairly clear, but i see your point.
forgot to mention when i had it running in january, it was chuffing on over-run rally car style although i assumed that was a leaky exhaust.
any hints on getting the timing "nearly there" as i have no mechanic mates locally anymore? best to buy a haynes manual? i have never done the timing on anything in my life!!!
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check my digifant faq! all you need to set the timing spot on on a digi is patience and a timing gun. Get an inductive one if you can, saves alot of messing about!