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Model specific boards => Golf mk3 => Topic started by: mattoligy on 02 February 2008, 20:42

Title: Engine noise... Tappets, Cam belt...?
Post by: mattoligy on 02 February 2008, 20:42
Hi, it's a mk3 2.0L 8v (75k) and the problem is that when i drive there is a noisy rattle/clicking that is at a very fast tempo and fairly loud! It Happens when you accelerate and the heavier the right foot the louder it gets :smug: but no really it's so annoying :sad:

I have searched and found it could be the tappets or the cam belt... The only other info i can give is that you can hear it when at a stand still but you have to have the bonnet up, and then it's at a slower tempo and of course... not as loud! I have tried to ear out where it is coming from with my head in the engine bay (Literally lol) and the closest i could pin point it to is the left hand side of the engine (my left lol) and more towards the top!

Any ideas would really help me out as i'm a complete noob lol

Matt.

EDIT: P.s I changed the oil and used engine flush when i done it (was about 2 months ago) but didn't help!
Title: Re: Engine noise... Tappets, Cam belt...?
Post by: Rmachines on 02 February 2008, 22:43
Hm is it louder when cold?  It actualy sounds like a leaking exhuast manifold/cracked manifold???

Or,  like you say tappets, usualy more of a knocking noise on this engine layout but depends.  One might not be pumping up,  If you have flushed the oil, and it is a lifter,  i would say it almost certainly needs replacing.   But, if you can put up with the noise, it wont do much harm.

Either way i would expect it to be louder when cold!  Other causes could be the big end?  Hate to even mention that but rule that out first,  they can start as a light clicky rattle! 

my 1.4L engine has a similar problem to this! but is more of a knock than a click now,  I thought it was the lifter but i think its the small end bearing now.  I wouldnt expect that to go on a GTI engine tho!
Title: Re: Engine noise... Tappets, Cam belt...?
Post by: saul79 on 02 February 2008, 23:01
or the engine is fecked :smiley:
Title: Re: Engine noise... Tappets, Cam belt...?
Post by: mattoligy on 02 February 2008, 23:44
It's def not a knocking! It's more of a spongy clicking if that makes sense... It makes no difference if the engine is hot or cold, it does it all the time!! I had even thought the cat might be fudged!? But it def gets louder and louder the more you accelerate!!
Title: Re: Engine noise... Tappets, Cam belt...?
Post by: Rmachines on 03 February 2008, 11:05
In that case i would go with somthing to do with drive belts, or cam belt.   Mabey a water pump bearing?  somthing like that. 
Title: Re: Engine noise... Tappets, Cam belt...?
Post by: herbster on 03 February 2008, 12:45
is the noise there when stationary?
Title: Re: Engine noise... Tappets, Cam belt...?
Post by: mattoligy on 03 February 2008, 19:57
here is a video/sound of the engine on tick over and then up to 2000 revs and then back down again, it kinda sounds more like an empty spray can!!  :huh:

http://www.mattoligy.000webhost.com/V030208_19.25.3gp (http://www.mattoligy.000webhost.com/V030208_19.25.3gp)  (1.37MB)

http://www.mattoligy.000webhost.com/V030208_19.25.wav (http://www.mattoligy.000webhost.com/V030208_19.25.wav)  (5.78MB)

Sorry for the size, not 56k friendly lol  :rolleyes:

Please have a listen as you probably know more than me and i really need some help here  :undecided:

matt.

P.s you have to listen carefully as the noise of the engine it self is aslo quite loud lol
Title: Re: Engine noise... Tappets, Cam belt...?
Post by: Rmachines on 03 February 2008, 23:27
Hmm i hate to say this but from what i could hear it did have that big end noise to it,  but at the same time it could easily be tappits or bearings.  I would go to a garage ASAP! and have them have a listen.  They should be able to diagnose big ends if it is that.  You dont wanna be running the engine at all if thats the case.

Has it been doing it long?  got worse over a short time?   I doubt it is the big end but dont risk it and check is asap!
Title: Re: Engine noise... Tappets, Cam belt...?
Post by: saul79 on 03 February 2008, 23:31
cant listen to it .
Title: Re: Engine noise... Tappets, Cam belt...?
Post by: Mikester on 03 February 2008, 23:31
Get some nice thick oil in there and run it to a garage ASAP!
Title: Re: Engine noise... Tappets, Cam belt...?
Post by: mattoligy on 04 February 2008, 01:03
It's been doing it since i bought it in the summer! Have changed the oil and filter since then with top spec stuff!

Did you notice how the clicking sped up Alot as the revs went up!?
Title: Re: Engine noise... Tappets, Cam belt...?
Post by: Rmachines on 04 February 2008, 08:37
If its been doing it that long without gettming much worse or blowing its not gunna be your big end.  So,  back to lifters or belt driven components i think
Title: Re: Engine noise... Tappets, Cam belt...?
Post by: mattoligy on 04 February 2008, 12:31
I'm 80% sure it was coming from inside the engine towards the top but then it's hard to tell, it could have been belt/components! :laugh:
Title: Re: Engine noise... Tappets, Cam belt...?
Post by: Len on 04 February 2008, 13:24
When you say top spec oil and filter what exactly did you use?
Title: Re: Engine noise... Tappets, Cam belt...?
Post by: mattoligy on 04 February 2008, 13:30
Not 100% sure but it was the vw recomended one and cost me about £30 just for the oil... I'll av a look and see if i'v still got the bottle!

You thinking tappets?
Title: Re: Engine noise... Tappets, Cam belt...?
Post by: Len on 04 February 2008, 13:38
Well all I was thinking was I have just done an oil and filter change and my engine is a lot quieter! :grin:

Everybody says buy the VW filter but I bought the Champion one from Halfords. And I always use Castrol Magnatec oil.
Title: Re: Engine noise... Tappets, Cam belt...?
Post by: Rmachines on 04 February 2008, 14:38
Probably is your lifters then.   Try a bottle of Wyns Lifter treatment from halfords.  Just stick it in with your oil. 

Ticking is a indication of wear to the surfaces of the cam lobes or lifter face where as knocking is more if the lifters arnt pumped up so im not sure if it would realy help, but wont do any harm trying.
Title: Re: Engine noise... Tappets, Cam belt...?
Post by: mattoligy on 04 February 2008, 21:20
I just spoke to a friend that knows a thing or two, used to work in a garage... and he said tappets straight away and ap it would be very cheap just to get them realigned!?
Title: Re: Engine noise... Tappets, Cam belt...?
Post by: Rmachines on 05 February 2008, 00:24
realigned??  lol i dont think theres much realigning to be done on hydralic lifters,   you either leave them or put in new ones.   :wink:
Title: Re: Engine noise... Tappets, Cam belt...?
Post by: mattoligy on 05 February 2008, 10:15
Oh i see :huh: guess it will be new ones then. The sound is coming from So close to the spark plugs its unreal, could it be the leads!?  :laugh:

Also, i noticed yesterday when starting her up the noise took a few minutes to kick in, not sure why...
Title: Re: Engine noise... Tappets, Cam belt...?
Post by: Len on 05 February 2008, 13:01
Oil is slightly thicker when its cold so another indication its tappets.

Its not a difficult job but means head off etc. Plus you need good valve compressors and a good safe, flat clean area to work on.
Title: Re: Engine noise... Tappets, Cam belt...?
Post by: mattoligy on 05 February 2008, 13:18
What, you reckon i can do it myself :undecided: lol
Title: Re: Engine noise... Tappets, Cam belt...?
Post by: Len on 05 February 2008, 14:04
Only if you got the right tools, but yea its a simple enough job.
Need some good sturdy tools to undo head bolts though!
Title: Re: Engine noise... Tappets, Cam belt...?
Post by: mattoligy on 05 February 2008, 16:04
I got a nice big strong socket set, screwdrivers etc etc but no specialist tools! :huh: lol

So is that enough!? Or do i need a certain tool? Also, shall i replace them with new! Or used...

Would anyone be able to (if uv got time that is) knock me up some sort of guide!?

Thanks, Matt.
Title: Re: Engine noise... Tappets, Cam belt...?
Post by: Len on 05 February 2008, 16:30
Gonna need a bit of a list!

Torx head bits set
Hex head bits set
1/2" drive socket set
Long drive bar (for head bolts)
Torque wrench to tighten head up again.
Valve spring comoressor.

Get a Haynes manual and follow that!
Title: Re: Engine noise... Tappets, Cam belt...?
Post by: Abz585 on 05 February 2008, 18:12
daft i know but one of the pullys is not catching on the plastic covers is it cause it dont sound like the big end or a tappet to me cheers
Title: Re: Engine noise... Tappets, Cam belt...?
Post by: mattoligy on 05 February 2008, 18:29
i'v had the top part of the cover off and it still does it! not sure how to get to the bootom part lol, the sound is coming from the left/middle of the engine RIGHT near the spark plugs and at about that level, thats why i thought it may be ht leads.. :huh:
Title: Re: Engine noise... Tappets, Cam belt...?
Post by: Rmachines on 05 February 2008, 18:29
you dont need the head off to change the tappets,  you need to lift the camshaft off the head and pull each tappet out from its bore.  Then drop in a new one.   The head stays where it is and you dont need valve spring compressors, the valves stay put. 

Its a simple job which can be done with a good socket set and little more.  It will envolve re-timing the camshaft etc and if you have done or know how to do a cambelt it shouldnt be a problem.  A haynes manual will be very usefull
Title: Re: Engine noise... Tappets, Cam belt...?
Post by: mattoligy on 05 February 2008, 18:33
Nope never none a cambelt :undecided: lol, how much do you reckon a garage would charge?

Matt.
Title: Re: Engine noise... Tappets, Cam belt...?
Post by: Rmachines on 05 February 2008, 18:37
I would charge arround £100, depends though, try lifter treatment first, its quite possible you have sticky lifters!  Go and stick a bottle of treatment in with the oil,  it stays in untill the next oil change, costs £7 ish.
Title: Re: Engine noise... Tappets, Cam belt...?
Post by: mattoligy on 05 February 2008, 20:48
oh ok :rolleyes: hallfords ok?
Title: Re: Engine noise... Tappets, Cam belt...?
Post by: Len on 05 February 2008, 20:56
you dont need the head off to change the tappets,  you need to lift the camshaft off the head and pull each tappet out from its bore.  Then drop in a new one.   The head stays where it is and you dont need valve spring compressors, the valves stay put. 

Its a simple job which can be done with a good socket set and little more.  It will envolve re-timing the camshaft etc and if you have done or know how to do a cambelt it shouldnt be a problem.  A haynes manual will be very usefull


I had heard this but wasnt sure how it was done so I stand corrected, thanks Rmachines!
 :embarassed:
Title: Re: Engine noise... Tappets, Cam belt...?
Post by: Rmachines on 05 February 2008, 21:43
Mabey your thinking of the valve guides or stem seels?  they are common to go on allot of engines.
Tappets on VW heads are nice and simple!    :smiley:
Title: Re: Engine noise... Tappets, Cam belt...?
Post by: Len on 06 February 2008, 08:46
Oh yeah! Had to do stem seals on Mi16 and did tappets at same time! D'oh!
Title: Re: Engine noise... Tappets, Cam belt...?
Post by: mattoligy on 06 February 2008, 12:07
Ok gana go get some of that lifter treatment now and then see how it go's and post back lol

how long do you think i should give it?

Matt.

Edit: i got some from halfords, put it in, but only gone a few miles on it so far, seems to be louder lol, prob just me.. :laugh:
Title: Re: Engine noise... Tappets, Cam belt...?
Post by: Rmachines on 06 February 2008, 20:58
The trick we always used on the ford CVH engines was this....


First Put the treatment in
1. Warm engine up to temp.
2. bring engine revs to a steady 2500RPM for 1 min
3. raise engine revs to 4000RPM for 2 mins.
4. reduce revs to 3000RPM for 4/5 mins.
5. Go for a drive.

Providing you are happy its the lifters rather than the big end or somthing,  take it out for a good hard drive!  BEAT IT! get it up to 5000RPM+ a few times when the engines nice and warm. 
With any luck that will give the treatment a chance to budge any sludge trapped in there.

The first part is similar to what you do to bed in a camshaft, but we used to do it on the escorts, So many needed the tappets replacing because they wore down,  they tended to get sticky and need unsticking.
Title: Re: Engine noise... Tappets, Cam belt...?
Post by: mattoligy on 06 February 2008, 21:03
This may sound stupid and it's prob not but i will ask anyway cos the noise is so close to the spark plugs and sounds so external, If it were would it be the plugs themselfs or the leads?
Title: Re: Engine noise... Tappets, Cam belt...?
Post by: herbster on 06 February 2008, 23:04
Have you had the plugs out, are they the right ones, have you ran the engine in the dark, any cracks on the spark plug body will show up, also a quick test for the followers(tappets) is to take the rocker cover off, turn the cam with lobes up one cylinder at a time and get a slim flat screwdriver between the back of the cam and follower, twist the driver a bit and feel for a bit of slack, there should'nt be any slack it should feel nice and smooth and you should see the follower going up and down. check the bottom cover by the alt belt, its gets really close to the grommit/plug for the alt bolt, it really doesn't sound like a mechanical failure, more like a something coming around on a loop, if you count the beats of the tapping its more like tenth engine rpm as the crank/piston is going to be doing 6 taps a secound at 1500 rpm and its not that many, even the tappets/sparks will be 3 times per second as they are half engine speed, thus my thinking on something on the loop of a belt etc....
Title: Re: Engine noise... Tappets, Cam belt...?
Post by: Stu G on 07 February 2008, 08:43
this is interesting cos ive got the exact same problem. change the oil every3k still does it. still goes like a rocket though :P
Title: Re: Engine noise... Tappets, Cam belt...?
Post by: Rmachines on 07 February 2008, 22:59
I have had a noisy tappet for ages! well for the past 20k miles its been knocking and many people have warned me NOT to drive it because its about to blow lol,  It doesnt do any harm to speak of but it must be quite a common problem.  I would check for exhaust leaks aswell?   but tappets will come from the spark plug area.