GolfGTIforum.co.uk
Model specific boards => Golf mk5 => Topic started by: hotrod on 26 January 2008, 19:25
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Hi gang,
As promised here’s a review of my test drives today.
Arranged for R32 and ED30 back-to-back unaccompanied test drives, sadly however ED30 was sold so a GTI was substituted.
Both were manual, 5-doors and running on Tesco 99 octane.
R32 was brand new (50 miles) and a little tight, GTI 6-months old (8,000k).
The route, 100 miles of twisty A and B roads, a little dual-carriageway and some urban crawl. Spent 1.5 hours in each car for a realistic drive.
First up the R32. Wanted to try it first as it’s similar to my V6 4-Motion.
Positives – Great noise when idling and on cam, effortless pace, abundance torque and cruising ability, sure-footed grip.
Negatives – A bit like a video game... slightly remote, snatchy throttle, driveline shunt, feels like a heavy car, needs another 50bhp, blue dash needles, exterior looks too mature.
Average fuel MGP was 24... about what I expected. After 100 miles I was happy to return the car.
Then the GTI, what a difference!
Positives – Light on its toes... feels much lighter than R32, exploitable chassis, direct steering, power band when turbo kicks in, loves to be thrashed, cool honeycomb grill styling, classic GTI heritage.
Negatives – Lack of torque below 2000rpm... that’s about it!
Average fuel MGP was 28.5... not too bad. After 100 miles I didn’t want to return the car, but the fuel was low.
In conclusion. Both cars were exceptional and I’d happily own either... but there’s a big but. As I’m sinking my own hard-earned into this motor my main criteria for change was to get a car which was fun with a capital F! Out of the two the GTI was more fun. I’d relish playing with the powerband, selecting the correct gear and carefully judging ratios for the next corner. With the R32 it was simply a case of select 3rd gear and ride the torque.
I’ve had 6-years of torque-laden driving and it can make you a little lazy... I need more input in my next drive.
So in my particular case the GTI makes the most convincing case for itself.
Shame they didn’t have a ED30 to play with, but no matter. I’ve left my ED30 specs with the Sales Manager to sort out a killer deal. Based on the positive forum feedback and reports I’ve read about the ED30 I think it’s where my cash will go... coupled with the fact that although they are not now limited edition they are still very rare.
I will post my specs once the deal and order has been finalised, looks like April is the earliest for a factory build.
To close thanks to you all for the ‘warts & all’ feedback, you’re input has opened my eyes.
Cheers buddies... Hotrod (aka Steve)
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Well done ....hope you get a good deal on the ED30 .. let us know what colour & spec you go for :wink:
You did well to get a back to back test of the two cars, and an hour and half in both :shocked: ...sounds like a better stealer than we get round here in Leeds !
I had a standard GTi for 1.5 years and replaced is last October with the Ed 30.
I did'nt notice any big differences but found the ED30 sounds and feels "gruntier", and pulls much better at higher :rolleyes: motorway speeds.
Now just the long wait :grin:
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:shocked: you test drove a R32 and managed to get 24mpg!!! Please tell me how??? I have to drive like a grandad to get that...
On a test drive I would be closer to the 17 mark as I am when im late :evil:
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Great balance of opinion there Hotrod :cool:
Sounds like a carbon copy of my thoughts when I took the R32 and GTI out for test drives too. Wait till you get chance to throw an ED30 about :shocked:
GTI DISTILLED :wink:
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the gti and ed30 is like the mk2 golf gti thing one is the 8v and the other is the 16v :tongue: good choice :grin:
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Hi Steve aka hotrod,
After I'd had my GTI for just over a year I borrowed a Mk5 R32 from my dealer for the day and drove them back to back on exactly the same roads.
My conclusions were almost exactly the same as yours - R32 has that V6 music and plenty of grunt but a potential licence loser that drinks a lot and feels heavier and more 'mature'. The GTI (I haven't driven an Ed30 yet) feels much more nimble and its body styling is just that little bit more 'sexy'.
The Ed30's turbo doesn't kick in quite as early as mine (1,800 revs) but extends further at higher revs.
I would definitely consider DSG - It's the best of both worlds - You can drive it as a manual on the paddles or nudge floorshift and gear changes are faultless and faster than any human. Then for built up areas or traffic jams/crawls you can use D-mode and relax stress free.
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Hi Steve aka hotrod,
After I'd had my GTI for just over a year I borrowed a Mk5 R32 from my dealer for the day and drove them back to back on exactly the same roads.
My conclusions were almost exactly the same as yours - R32 has that V6 music and plenty of grunt but a potential licence loser that drinks a lot and feels heavier and more 'mature'. The GTI (I haven't driven an Ed30 yet) feels much more nimble and its body styling is just that little bit more 'sexy'.
The Ed30's turbo doesn't kick in quite as early as mine (1,800 revs) but extends further at higher revs.
I would definitely consider DSG - It's the best of both worlds - You can drive it as a manual on the paddles or nudge floorshift and gear changes are faultless and faster than any human. Then for built up areas or traffic jams/crawls you can use D-mode and relax stress free.
Hi Robin,
For your interest, all the roads I drove were down your neck of the woods, Crossways and beyond. I used to own a KTM 660SMC SuperMoto (Sideways motorcycles), so I know those twisty country backroads pretty well and I thought it would test the Golfs’ ability big time! I was not disappointed.
Funny though, I did this exact model comparison exactly two-years ago and I actually preferred the R32. Thinking about it the R32 was manual and the GTI DSG. Although I admire the DSG technology, and understand that it is more efficent that me changing cogs, I really prefer the manual process... pitting my skill against the terrain, rather than an ECU trying to second-guess me. The DSG encouraged me to ‘rag its arse off’ and fuel consuption was down in the low teens. It is however great to have the choice and a terrific piece of technology from the VAG Group.
In 2006 I actually placed an order for a R32, but 3-weeks later cancelled... it just didn’t feel right... if your not sure don’t do it. This time I’m following my head and heart!
Also as an aside, I’m hoping that there isn’t a big lack of torque below the 2200rpm powerband on the ED30, as this was my only slight negative on my GTI test drive. Can any ED30 owners out there in cyberspace confirm this please.
I’m also amazed at the chassis improvements over my Mark IV, I simply cannot travel as fast in my current car as the two hot Golfs tested. VW obviously spent all their development cash on the chassis, drivetrain and engines, however I still prefer the jet black interior of mine (feels like a mini Merc inside).
Off to show the missus a white 3-door GTI at the dealers today to give her an idea of what the ED30 will look like.
Chat soon buddies... Hotrod :grin:
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:shocked: you test drove a R32 and managed to get 24mpg!!! Please tell me how??? I have to drive like a grandad to get that...
On a test drive I would be closer to the 17 mark as I am when im late :evil:
Hi R32UK, The R32 was brand new (50 miles) and I showed it some respect, so it wasn’t thrashed to within an inch of it’s life! I varied range & load upon the engine and it did perform very well. Mostly A-roads... not daft speeds, trying to compare handling, weight distribution, braking etc. On the dual carriageways it rocked!
The R32 I took out two-years ago was fully run-in and I did thrash that example, however ultimately it wasn’t for me.
I get about 18-24mpg on my 4-Mo, which is always driven with maturity and conservatism... yeah right.
Cheers...Hotrod
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Although I admire the DSG technology, and understand that it is more efficent that me changing cogs, I really prefer the manual process... pitting my skill against the terrain, rather than an ECU trying to second-guess me.
.......however I still prefer the jet black interior of mine (feels like a mini Merc inside).
....Total respect and understanding that you prefer the manual to the DSG and you have tested the DSG. However, for the sake of others reading this, the DSG is actually a 'manual' box of tricks and when driven 'manually' tiptronically or with paddles (which I now do 95% of the time), it doesn't second-guess you at all. Check out this vid:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VbAK36cCBAc&NR=1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VbAK36cCBAc&NR=1)
Re the Mk4 black interior I've only been in and driven the Mk4 R32 and the interior feels much more luxurious. The Mk5 seats are much more supportive though and I've driven over 750 mile journeys several times through Europe and got out of the car as fresh as a daisy (so to speak!).
Your lady will either love or hate the Candy White I reckon, and my money is on her loving it! White is the new Black! :smiley:
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Also as an aside, I’m hoping that there isn’t a big lack of torque below the 2200rpm powerband on the ED30, as this was my only slight negative on my GTI test drive. Can any ED30 owners out there in cyberspace confirm this please.
I did'nt notice a big lack of torque, but my initial impressions in the first week of swapping from a standard GTi to ED30 was less "zip" up to 3000rpm and more "umph" after 3000rpm :evil:
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I did'nt notice a big lack of torque, but my initial impressions in the first week of swapping from a standard GTi to ED30 was less "zip" up to 3000rpm and more "umph" after 3000rpm :evil:
....Many others report the same. It's down to the larger K04 turbo. I don't know if a remap addresses such subjects. Personally, much as I love the Ed30 and would certainly have ordered one if available in May 2005, I prefer to have my turbo power come in lower - Less liklihood of finding myself in license losing territory! Having driven a fair bit on unrestricted German autobahns, the Ed30 would be better suited but my modded GTI did everything I asked of her way up to 143 mph on the GPS (well, acceleration does drop off after 130 mph with the shape of a hatch!). Legal averages of over 90 mph on journeys are a real joy! Not quite so the 22 mpg though!
Driving in Germany is so much less stress free without constantly being on full alert for authority and you also find it so much easier to respect the speed limits where they apply - You don't feel as if you are under a thumb! Safer that way in my opinion.
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In standard form the ED30 isn't sluggish under 3,000 revs, but the OFFICIAL stats show that the ED30 torque doesn't max till 2,200 revs, where as the standard GTI's max's at 1800 revs.
Compare the two standard curves in the PDF's below for the best comparison.
http://www.superchips.co.uk/curves/vw2lfsiturbo.pdf
http://www.superchips.co.uk/curves/VWGolfGTIEdition30.pdf
Bare in mind that Superchips have no real investment gain by altering the standard RR figures you can expect them to be a fair representation of both models.
GTI ED30
RPM POWER TORQUE POWER TORQUE
BHP NM BHP NM
2K 60 215 66 230
3K 115 270 130 310
4K 147 263 175 305
5K 180 255 220 308
6K 196 231 243 280
So as you can see from the figures I have pulled from the graph, the ED30 should feel faster at any given increment. At 6k revs the ED30 still has more torque than the GTI has at it's max. In fact from 2,400 revs to just over 6k revs the ED30 has more torque than the max figure a GTI has. Similarly from 4,400 revs to the redline, the ED30 has more power than the GTI.
All the above has been done to simply show that the ED30 will feel more nimble than a GTI any where in the rev range what is meaningful :nerd: :nerd:
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....Useful info, Hurdy.
Particularly interesting for me as my Stage1 Revo with mods delivers about 250 bhp and 400 Nm - Comparable with the stock Ed30, but turbo starts at about 1,800 revs. :smiley:
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I have always liked the power grunt having had M3's and Vr6's etc i wasn't sure i would like the gti before having a test drive. But within minutes i loved the gti, so smooth for a turbo car. Unlike the cossie and imprezza from years gone by.
One year later i still like it and so does the missus
Go for it get the GTI, it looks right
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Hurdy, thanks for the info ...reassuring... Hotrod