GolfGTIforum.co.uk
General => New forum members => Topic started by: MAFFA on 06 January 2008, 15:44
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How's it going? Just joined a few minutes ago as I sold my (completely unecessary) E39 BMW M5 this morning & am looking to get either a MkII or MkIII Golf GTi within the next week or so.
Yes I know it seems a little strange to drop from an Exec saloon like that to a £2-£3k car but there is method in my madness trust me :) Prior to the M5 for 6yrs I basically built from the ground up my track monster Impreza Turbo. See pics:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v196/MAFFA/Matts%20Scoob/IMG_2149r.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v196/MAFFA/Matts%20Scoob/Scoob3.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v196/MAFFA/FMIC/Engine231005.jpg)
During this period I was a member of Scoobynet where I got advice & help on pretty much everything & built up over 10k posts in the process. I now have a 1 1/2yr old son & when he was born that was the reason why I took the Impreza apart, sold it as parts & got an M5. Trouble is I miss my track days & my plan now is to buy a Golf GTi and eventually another family car, leaving me free to strip out, roll cage, modify etc...the Golf into a track toy :) Many people suggested I go back to an Impreza (because that's what I know) but where's the challenge & fun in that. I'm all for change & new challenges so i've decided the Golf GTi is the way to go.
As i've not yet bought the car I have a few questions to aid me in my quest. Bear in mind i'm not planning on spending any more than £2k for the car initially. Unless I find a peach & needs must :)
MkII or MkIII?
Which model? I've not looked to much into this yet but I've seen a 2.0 8v, 2.0 16v & a 1.8T.
What common faults should I look out for when buying?
Thanks guys for all your help & i'll keep you posted on my progress in finding one.
MAFFA
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hello and welcome
as for a golf that you want to use on the track, i would go for a mk2 16v. Although i am tempted to say a mk3 VR6 :wink:
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Cheers fella. Could you point me towards any performance figures for either? There must be a chart somewhere comparing the different models :)
I would presume that the VR6 could potentially be more costly for parts?
I was thinking MkII 16v would be the way forward as parts seem to be cheap and easily attainable. It also seems the model of choice for modification.
MAFFA
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Welcome to the forum hun :smiley:
Dinx :kiss:
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Thanks Dinx. Whereabouts are you in the Northeast? I used to live in Lincolnshire before moving back down south :)
MAFFA
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Welcome to the forum :cool:
I think I would go for the MKII 16V. There are quite a few about and there is even a full race series based on it if you want to go that far.
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Hi Hurdy.
Looks like the MkII 16v is the way forward as it's the general consensus.
Thanks for the info on the race series. Have you a link to a website at all as i'd guess the car would need to be set up to an agreed specification & i'd be interested in costs :)
MAFFA
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Also whilst i've been looking into the MkII I came across a MkII buyers guide detailing the most common faults with a MkII. Now I don't know who wrote this but would be grateful on your feedback as to the most common issues :) The following are mentioned on the site:
Seized Rear Brakes: These were one of VW's less appreciated jokes. The rear discs do so little that the callipers seize up with little encouragement. Replacements are about £65 a side and if the car is a post 88 car you can fit the Mk3 items which are less prone to seizing. Do not be deterred from buying a car with seized rear brakes as they have little impact on the condition of the rest of the car and most Mk2s suffer from this at some point.
Smoky Engines: As with the Mk1, worn valve guides are common on higher mileage examples causing the car to puff blue smoke.
Seized Rear Wiper: The Mk2s aerodynamics suck crud onto the back of the car and this affects the rear wiper mechanism causing it to seize. Inexpensive to fix with scrappy parts or even with some cleaning and WD40, but a good bartering point nonetheless.
Rust Around the Rear Boot Catch: The crud problem (see above) causes the tailgate to rust around the lock and under the trim so look out for this, as bodywork and paint repairs will be required.
Leaking Door Foils: The door membranes shrink and let water into the car like a sieve. Look out for damp carpets and water stains on the door cards. Most Mk2s will suffer this. The fix is cheap but the water could already have damaged the carpets and seats.
Dickey MFAs: As with the MK1, this often malfunctions and is expensive to repair, so check it works before agreeing a price.
Tired Oil Pumps: The 8vs can suffer from oil pump failure, which will be terminal for the engine. If the service history and oil changes are lacking or the engine is full of exhausted oil, budget to replace this as a precaution. The 16v did not suffer from this, as it used a more heavy-duty pump derived from the diesel engines.
Knackered Hall Sender: This lives in the distributor and dies from old age. When it gets hot it will cause the engine to run erratically. The only solution is a replacement dizzy which will set you back £150.
Pinking: All 16v Mk 2 models and pre 88 K-Jet 8vs were designed to run on high octane 4-star and thus will pink unless a timing adjustment is made [see before]. The 16v timing cannot be adjusted and so a V-SAM or similar is required.
Failed Speeds 1&2 on Heater: The thermal fuse on the heater resistor pack often fails causing the loss of speeds 1&2. The resistor pack can be replaced at a cost of £50 from VAG or just replace the thermal fuse with a slightly uprated one from any good electrical shop for £2.50. Again a good bartering point.
Badly Set Up Pieberg Carbs on Non Gtis: This carb was over complicated and regularly leads to poor running, if possible the Weber direct replacement is a good option.
G reg Cars with 90 Spec Kit: Only the 1990 and onward cars came with big bumpers but some owners of 1989 G reg cars fit the kit and sell the car at a premium by claiming it is a late model car so check the cars age on the V5.
Inability to idle: Usually caused by an air leak but often caused by a faulty idle stabilisation valve on the post 88 cars. These are expensive to replace so be wary (£140 from VAG) but can be cleaned if not too far gone.
Heater Matrix Failure: If the heaters blast out damp air then the heater matrix has burst. All Mk2s were recalled to have a pressure relief valve fitted to prevent this occurring. Check to see if the recall has been carried out. One of the hot water pipes that go through the bulkhead should have been cut and the valve added. If not then take the car to VAG and get it done (No expense)
Fuel Pump Hanging off Car: The fuel pump mounts often break leaving the pump hanging off the car by nothing more than the fuel lines (Drivers side, just in front of the rear wheel), which is potentially lethal... Get is fixed as a priority (GTIs only)
Failed Lift Pump: The in-tank lift pump (GTi only) can often fail and will cause the car to hesitate and suffer bunny hopping style fuel starvation before eventually conking out. This can be masked by keeping the petrol tank full, so be wary of a car with a full tank. Luckily the pump is inexpensive at £30 and easy to change.
Noisy Main Fuel Pumps: This is normal so do not be too concerned.
Damage Around Door Handles: These cars are very easy to break into due to the door catch design so look for damage around the door handles and beware of armoured doorplates, which can hide previous damage.
Dodgy 2nd Gear Syncro: The second gear syncro ring fails at about 100k on the Mk2 causing the gears to crunch when going from 1st to 2nd. The solution is a gearbox rebuild or recon box, which will cost upwards of £150. Once worn the problem will not worsen (unless abused) and you can adapt you driving to prevent the gears from crunching (double de clutch, or a small pause between gears). As long as you drive to prevent the gears crunching it will not damage anything else.
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Welcome.
I'd go for a Mk2 16v too. I've had both that and the Mk3 16v, and although the Mk3 16v has more power on paper (150bhp compared to 138bhp on the Mk2 16v) the Mk2 is lighter and a better drivers car to start with.
The Mk3's handling isn't so good and needs sorting, but the mk2 goes round corners so well even with standard suspension.
If you want more power out of a Mk2 16v you can easily swap the bottom end for the 2.0L, or even stick it on carbs or a turbo.
Alternatively, if you're not shy of work, with your budget of say £3k, buy a decent Mk2 for £1k, buy a VR6 engine and install that, or you might even find a cheap 1.8T engine from a new VAG car (eg Mk4 Golf/Audi TT/etc). Then add new suspension and better brakes.
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For track a Mk2 would be better but just a thought as you may be able to get a Mk3 cheaper! Their values seem to be going through the floor atm.
Oh and welcome.
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Cheers guys. I've been looking into the MkII's & I was loving them to bits until I saw this thread:
http://www.golfgtiforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=56651.0
Now from a non-VW owner I look at the initial pictures & think..."that looks reasonably clean" until I read on & saw how much rust there was :shocked: :shocked:
Is this a big issue with the MkII & if so how the heck would you ever know it was there?
I gotta say that a MkIII is starting to look more tempting on account of the age & less likelyness of rust. If the handling is the only issue then there will be coilovers going on it anyway + bigger brakes + strut braces + lightweight alloys & eventually a full strip. Like you said the MkIII price is falling & you can get a decent 1996 for around the £1-£1500 mark.
Any comments about my views would be greatly appreciated :)
MAFFA
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I think i'll change my mind again!!!
Just been speaking to the guy that owns this beauty:
http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/sales/303598.htm
Looks like the complete package ready to go. Does anyone on here know this car or what do you think about it? 150BHP at the wheels & 210lb/ft. Is that a lot in a MkII?
Cheers
MAFFA
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Thanks Dinx. Whereabouts are you in the Northeast? I used to live in Lincolnshire before moving back down south :)
MAFFA
I live in sunny south shields...pretty northern to most on here.. :grin:
Maffa as with all makes/models of cars, it depends on how much previous owners have looked after them..i mean, how many new cars have had recalls?! not exactly the same/..but u get the gist :grin:
Dinx :kiss:
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Crikey that is up north!! :shocked:
I thought Lincolnshire was north but that's miles further! Mind you i'm from Chichester so anything above the Watford Gap is north as far as i'm concerned :grin: :grin:
MAFFA
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Its ok Maffa....your not alone in thinking I practically live in Scotland.. :grin:
Dinx :kiss:
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They'll never get you...there's water in the way!! :grin:
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I'd recommend the Mk2 16v too but maybe one already converted to a 2.0 16v.
Adding a stainless manifold and exhaust system with a rolling road setup with a well known tuner called Stealth, you should get about 160-180bhp with a few more cheap, select mods.
You can play around with inlet manifolds from the Corrado which are 42mm or keep the standard Golf one which would change your torque curve to your track day style, maybe convert to throttle bodies and megasquirt? There are lots of articles about.
The Mk3 feels a bit heavy driving about, the Mk2 is definately much lighter and from my experience, more fun.
As for 8v vs 16v, there are so many opinions about which is better and not but drive one for yourself to see what would suit you! With the 8v you feel the torque lower down the revs but when you go higher it doesn't pull as much whereas the 16v is the opposite. Some 8vs do push a lot of power, 150bhp is very good for a Mk2 8v.
That Scooby engine bay... wow!
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Cheers Leon.
Thought i'd just do a few insurance quotes to see whether that would sway me either way:
MkII 1.8 8V = £230pa
MkII 1.8 16v = £240pa
MkIII 2.0 16v = £300pa
MkIII 2.8 VR6 = £320pa
MkIV 1.8 (125) = £230pa
MkIV 1.8T (150) = £330pa
All quotes are fully comprehensive.
God i'm gonna save a fortune as the insurance on the M5 is £800pa & on the Scooby before that it was £550pa.
I agree totally with what you're saying but my only concern is the bodywork condition. Should I be so worried? Is it really that big a problem?
Also i've seen a few choice mods out there for the MkIII and you can get a 1997 2.0 16V for very good money. Bear in mind it will probably eventually be stripped bare and made as light as possible for the track.
I was suprised on the insurance for the VR6. That could be tempting :) What are they like in terms of performance, economy, reliability & tunability?
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Oh & thanks for the comments on the Scooby. Lot of hard work went into that & it demolished GT3's at Bedford Autodrome ;)
Here's the current family car that I just sold :cry: (It's a sad day)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v196/MAFFA/Matts%20BMW/IMG_3704r.jpg)
MAFFA
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Did that M5 have service history at Hexagon of Highgate dealer? I'm so sure I've seen it at work!
Most Mk2's have rust, ones without are priced accordingly so if you are prepared to pay the premium, get it wax oiled and it should be ok. Mine wasn't that bad, it just had one bad one, but where Mk2's normally rust it had nothing.
This should help:
http://www.matey-matey.com/golf_buying_guide.shtml
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I've not driven it far enough yet to warrant a service but I don't know about before I owned it?
Thanks for the link to that site. That was the first golf site I read. I actually posted a load of stuff from it on the first page of this tread :)
I dunno why because I know a MkII would be a better track car but I still fancy a MkIII. No idea why other than the rust worry? :undecided:
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Maffa...why don't you just keep your options open? view a couple from each mark, check them over..and I'm sure your gut will tell you which one to buy..whether mk2 or the boat..i mean mk3 :smiley:
Dinx :kiss:
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:grin: PMSL :grin:
I've got a few MkII's i've got my eye on & a few MkIII's so i'll probably get around to driving all of them at some point. Anyone know of any meets around my way that I could go along to & check out a few all in one place?
MAFFA
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Welcome to the forum. Not really into scoobies (or BMs), but got to take my hat off to you on the work done. Engine bay looked special. :afro:
There's loads of opinions etc on the car to have, but I just can't see a mk3 being a decent enough spec for you coming from a BM & scooby background and I don't see it as a track car at all in my opinion.I get your thinking on the rust side of things though, but I'd still personally go for a decent mk2 16v over a mk3, but again that's my opinion. The torque thing about 8v & 16v is a myth as 8vs don't have any better low down torque over a 16v anywhere in the range, there's a graph in the mk2 section as a sticky that will prove it. :wink: One thing I'm surprised that people haven't mentioned is a 16v mk1, now there may well be rust issues here as even the newest tintops will be over 20 years old, and the 16v mk1 will be a conversion, but 139bhp+ in a car that weighs about 800kg means they shift. :cool:
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One thing I'm surprised that people haven't mentioned is a 16v mk1, now there may well be rust issues here as even the newest tintops will be over 20 years old, and the 16v mk1 will be a conversion, but 139bhp+ in a car that weighs about 800kg means they shift. :cool:
You kinda answered your own ponder there Gibs..and precisely why i didn't..
Dinx :kiss:
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Yeah, but if it's to be a track slag and you find a good one then a lot of that may have been sorted out. They are out there.
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Totally agree with you mate..just have a feeling that Maffa is abit of an erm..meaning this in the nicest way possible..poser?! :grin:
so like rust and the looks have to be spot on..
No offence maffa! :grin:
Dinx :kiss:
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.......and what better way to pose than in a well sorted mk1 16v ! :cool: Cooler than any mk2. In my humble opinion of course ! :wink:
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You shut up...you went over to the mk2 side.. :tongue:
Of course..i totally agree with all of the above thou.. :wink:
Dinx :kiss:
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The love of the mk1 is always there though Di, always there ! :wink:
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Crikey i've started a war!!
Funny you should mention a MkI though as I was looking at a couple not too far away:
http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/sales/262117.htm
http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/sales/331694.htm
The silver one is only 6 miles away & it does look nice....but then again it is pretty pricey for a 25yr old car!
I get what your saying and yes I am a bit of a poser & whatever I buy will never remain standard but i'm that bit older now (well 31) & initially i'm gonna be carting my 1 1/2yr old around in it.
I'm keeping an open mind until i've driven a few. Another thing is that I have my number plate M6FFA floating around somewhere as this is my username on Scoobynet & BM3W. If i'm gonna use that then it has to be a MkIII but then again it could go on the other car or even the BMW Mini Cooper that's at home so not too big a problem.
Just trying to cover everything & do what's right for me. Thing is i've not looked at any yet so getting a bit ahead of myself :grin:
Oh & if you think the engine bay on that Scoob is nice you wanna see the other one I had that was even more posey & even quicker. 0-60 took 3.8 seconds & a 12 second 1/4 :laugh:
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Mind Maffa..you start sl@ggin mk1s..i will have to kick ya @ss.. :grin:
Dinx :kiss:
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Not a chance of that. I've never driven one myself but all the reviews speak for themselves when it comes to raw fun out of a Golf :)
Honestly if I could find a mint one i'd love it :)
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:wink: good man
Dinx :kiss:
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Thought you might like to see this (even though it's a VW forum :tongue: ). Green Scoob on the rolling road. Never heard another one quite so loud! Had to keep changing the exhaust for the track & even then it only just made it!
http://www.ecu-tuner.co.uk/downloads/download.php?file=36
Hope it works :)
Right back to looking for cars :laugh:
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Nah, no war started, Dinx always likes to get the last word in. :tongue:
You say that £2250 is a lot for a 25 year old car, but that's not actually a bad price. You'll find that well sorted mk1s go for a fair bit of money as do mk2s, mk3 can be picked up cheaper than the others. If you're looking at mk1s too then this is a brilliant site and has a good for sale section as they will only allow mk1 stuff to be advertised on there. http://www.vwgolfmk1.org.uk/ :smiley:
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What about a MkIII VR6?
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Never driven one personally, but an old user on here had one for a track day and he loved it. The suspension needs sorting though as they are supposed to be pants as standard. I still say mk1 or mk2 for the track, mk3s too lardy for me.
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I'll keep looking so :tongue:
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Nah, no war started, Dinx always likes to get the last word in. :tongue:
hahaha....hey..ive been good as of late!
Dinx :kiss:
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What about a MkIII VR6?
They are great! Very nearly bought one off my son-in-law! :grin:
Bit heavier and a bit on the thirsty side but the noise and the rush is good. :wink:
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When you've driven a Scooby with as many mods as mine had & a 5.0 V8 BMW M5 then i'll probably find it economical :grin: :grin:
I average 17mpg at the mo :shocked: :shocked:
MAFFA
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hello and welcome to the forum.... :smiley:
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Hello mate :)
Alright guys & gals i'm a bit annoyed at the moment, as Gibby already knows, because the buyer for my M5 pulled out on Friday & the cheque for the deposit bounced! :angry:
To top it all off the V5 was already completed (yes stupid I know :rolleyes: ) which either means i'll have to fork out £25 for a new one or I can try the tipex approach :angry:
Anyway every cloud and all that...I won't be giving up! :) A guy e-mailed me last night looking to p/x his red 3dr MkIII Golf GTI Anniversary against my M5 (Yes I know it's not a MkI or II...sorry guys :embarassed: ). Looks very clean & might have to be checked out :)
I'll keep you posted :)
MAFFA :tongue: