GolfGTIforum.co.uk
Model specific boards => Golf mk5 => Topic started by: thedude on 08 December 2007, 01:08
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would you want a maunal Golf gti/ed30/r32 - WHY ?????
i've had my gti for 7 months now and can't see why you'd have it manual - not powerful enough etc to argue that manual box makes it a better drivers car.....
what a gearbox - fantastic!
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
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manual because i like to be in control
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I was nearly going to go for the DSG but eventually decided against it, i could still phone the dealer and change my mind as i've still got another 12 weeks or so to wait, but i'm pretty certain i wont.
The GTi i had a test drive in was a manual and it was beyond a doubt one of the nicest gearboxes i've ever used I've not had a shot in a DSG and i know a lot of you will say if i did i wouldnt look back but for me part of the fun and enjoyment of driving, as maxamus said, is being in control, having a manual change makes you feel so much more involved regardless of power.
I also bet you could do a 3 point turn faster in a Manual than in a DSG, and to make it more interesting have parked cars either side :wink:
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Oh no, another Manual V DSG thread :evil:
What is all this rubbish about being in control with a manual :rolleyes:
You are in more control with a DSG as you can still change gears yourself :smug:
It is just that when you feel like it you can chill in traffic and let the box sort itself :smug:
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would you want a maunal Golf gti/ed30/r32 - WHY ?????
i've had my gti for 7 months now and can't see why you'd have it manual - not powerful enough etc to argue that manual box makes it a better drivers car.....
what a gearbox - fantastic!
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
I don't need another computer making decisions for me. And I don't like those paddles either.
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Oh no, another Manual V DSG thread :evil:
What is all this rubbish about being in control with a manual :rolleyes:
You are in more control with a DSG as you can still change gears yourself :smug:
It is just that when you feel like it you can chill in traffic and let the box sort itself :smug:
I can sort things out myself, thank you very much!
The only way I get an AUTOMATIC, is if I buy a comfort-ride like MB CL500.
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Who cares about comfort when you're using the paddles :laugh:
And I didn't know it was an "automatic" :rolleyes:
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Who cares about comfort when you're using the paddles :laugh:
And I didn't know it was an "automatic" :rolleyes:
well, now you know
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I prefer to drive a car rather than have gizmos do it for me. Manual all the way :wink:
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Id love to see what its like with dsg. I can imagine odd at first lol.
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From what I have heard and read the DSG system is fantastic. I prefer a more involved drive that the manual gives, plus I can't afford DSG!
Komenda, don't usually like silver GTi's, but your GTi looks superb.
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From what I have heard and read the DSG system is fantastic. I prefer a more involved drive that the manual gives, plus I can't afford DSG!
Komenda, don't usually like silver GTi's, but your GTi looks superb.
Cheers dude. On the standard wheels for the winter. I have a set of 19' BBS CH to go on in the summer.
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I'd be happy with either, but I plumped for DSG.
One point to those saying 'I prefer to be in control' or 'I prefer to drive my car'...
If you wheel back 50 years, I bet you'd get lots of people refusing a gearbox with synchromesh. "Bah! I prefer to slot the cogs in myself*"
(*small point - a driving instructor showed me that double declutching still has its uses but I never bother)
On the driving front, there's a lot to be said for stuff which lets you concentrate on the speed/line/road ahead, and there's a lot to be said for stuff which keeps things very smooth on acceleration/deceleration, as unexpected lurches caused by fluffed gearchanges or not enough 'blip' before a downchange will stuff up speed through a corner (on a track at least).
With the old autos, you had no real control over when the engine would upchange or downchange, and more importantly, you couldn't ensure the engine stayed in the right gear when braking into a corner. DSG gives you the control you need (as far as I can see) whilst providing the advantages of an auto on the motorway or in town.
DSG is not 'pure' driving, but no car with servoed steering, brakes and a sensible heater be called pure! (If you want a pure car, try a Lotus Elise!)
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i had dsg on my audi a3 2.0t and i felt it took alot out of driving for me as most of the time i was in D and it became lazy driving and boring so the ed30 had to be manual :grin:. i must say that in sport mode and on the paddles it is very very good and very very smooth but not for me this time around.
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i had dsg on my audi a3 2.0t and i felt it took alot out of driving for me as most of the time i was in D and it became lazy driving and boring so the ed30 had to be manual :grin:. i must say that in sport mode and on the paddles it is very very good and very very smooth but not for me this time around.
To be honest, I've got DSG but I am too lazy to use the paddle shifts so end up driving in D Mode 95% of the time, S Mode 4% :evil: and paddles/gear-shifter 1% :rolleyes: and this does take away the involvment. However, if anyone tries it out on my Ed30 or if I have a rare moment on a nice dry B-Road, I have an awesome gearbox on my side that blows away the manual...
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I'm more the manual mode type myself :wink:
abouts 70% manual mode
25% drive mode
5% sport mode
Oh and when going backwards 100% reverse mode :laugh:
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I also bet you could do a 3 point turn faster in a Manual than in a DSG, and to make it more interesting have parked cars either side :wink:
I think we have found a new performance benchmark, look out for it next to the 0-60 times in MaxPower.
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the gti is not really a high performance car so it actually suits the DSG very well.
i previously had a elise 111s and that is perfect for manual - as good as the golf is you can't really say its a 'focused' car therefore why would you even want to bother with manual gear changes when you are pottering around town etc, thats just a pain in the arse :angry:
then when you want to put your foot down the paddles come into there own :grin:
also DSG golfs will hold their value more as they are more desirable :wink:
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I would not say that DSG is worse or better than a manual box. But the sales unfortunatly state that DSG is the most in demand.
We dont have DSG since my mother hates a auto box. I want a DSG Caddy. To much fun :laugh:
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I also bet you could do a 3 point turn faster in a Manual than in a DSG, and to make it more interesting have parked cars either side :wink:
I think we have found a new performance benchmark, look out for it next to the 0-60 times in MaxPower.
:grin: I was just using this as an example of something you may have to do in everyday use, manoeuvering out of awkward parking spaces, turning in the road, hill starts. A clutch pedal is always going to give you more control than a computer trying to judge what you want. I dont doubt that the DSG has some appeal but i think for me personally the novelty factor would eventually wear off and then your left with a 20k+ car with a g/box your fed up with
This is a discussion that could go on forever, each to their own
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Ever tried reversing up a STEEP 200ft driveway in a manual. Revs, clutch, brake, revs, clutch, brake, revs, brake, revs, clutch, revs, more revs, brake, clutch, revs, clutch, brake...........oooh what is that smell?......err....that's your old style, I'm in control clutch frying. :sick:
DSG.....smoooth and easy :wink: no smell, no stress :smug:
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Bunch of girls!
Any one read EVO - can't ay they were that impressed - VW Driver - Manual's 100kg lighter - negates any DSG performance advantage etc etc ......
DSG - for girls! :smiley:
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Bunch of girls!
Any one read EVO - can't ay they were that impressed - VW Driver - Manual's 100kg lighter - negates any DSG performance advantage etc etc ......
DSG - for girls! :smiley:
that's not entirely true, there is a video on youtube where they put DSG:ed GTI against manual:ed GTI, and against other cars. DSG wins over manual, over lighter car with same bhp, and over a car with more bhp.
also, I think DSG is only 40kg heavier
whatever.....
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whatever.....
yep a girl would say that too..... :grin: :grin: :wink: :wink:
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Who the hell has a 200ft driveway you need to reverse up? :huh:
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Who the hell has a 200ft driveway you need to reverse up? :huh:
You haven't seen where I live...let alone some of my mates. :shocked:
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Obviously not :huh:
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DSG ALL DAY LONG for us one armed jessies that like to go just alittle bit quicker then manual owners :wink:
When selling my GTi to the Passat, once youve had it, its no going back to a silly stick in the floor.
An absolute no brainer.
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This may be slightly off topic, the DSG as with all the other (in words of jez) flappy paddle gearboxes are as a result of developments in motorsport, namely F1.
I personally think F1 was far more interesting when the drivers had to do something
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=TRGdL9WkQaQ
Compare that to a modern F1 car, admittedly faster but so boring. Granted a GTi is not a serious performance car but for me envolvment and fun has a lot to do with the overall package.
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Granted a GTi is not a serious performance car but for me envolvment and fun has a lot to do with the overall package.
You're still involved with DSG - just only when you want to be.
Still... won't be long before the car steers itself too. Hey, come to think of it, that wouldn't be too bad - you could send it out to fill itself up!
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I did drive the DSG ED30 but went with the manual, for tuning wasn't sure what would happen to the DSG with more power, may not affect it now? but iam more involved with the drive with the 'stick' i have made the decision when to change gear not the machine.i am partial to 1/4 sprint to so prefer to do the take of myself rather than be lazy and let the dsg do it.wheres the skill?
you even get cars to reverse park for you now.it maybe a tech break through and i do like them but each to their own.
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whatever.....
yep a girl would say that too..... :grin: :grin: :wink: :wink:
well, if you want to know, I chose manual E30 over DSG E30 :huh:
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I'm more the manual mode type myself :wink:
abouts 70% manual mode
25% drive mode
5% sport mode
Oh and when going backwards 100% reverse mode :laugh:
I tried this on the way back to Ipswich from Hastings today - had to go and see another Mk2 16v... I promised myself I wouldn't buy another but I miss the Mk2 too much. Anyway, driving DSG as a manual revealed a whole new dimension to the car and I can honestly say I am sooooo glad I didn;t get a manual - as long as those tuners sort out some upgrades to the DSG box to handle all that torque they are offering :drool: I can have a manual in my Mk1/Mk2.
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I can see the benifits of the DSG but had to say I just didnt like the way it tried to predict your driving.. Its probably the best/quickest your ever going to change gear.... but for my irratic driving style... its just not as quick as my left hand!! (or right for that matter :rolleyes:)
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I love the DSG as you really get the best of both worlds. I can see why alot of folk like the manual but round town the DSG comes into it's own.
Can't speak for others but I am really pleased with what I got :smiley:
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Automatos are for lazy people. Real men drive manuals :cool: :cool:
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Automatos are for lazy people. Real men drive manuals :cool: :cool:
Complete nonsense - I suppose all the drivers in F1 are women then are they? Its like saying when the car was first invented, 'horseless carriages are for lazy people. Real men ride horses.' :rolleyes:
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:grin: :grin: :grin: :grin:
Or...what about...."What's all this namby pamby walking around about?....Real men swing from trees and eat nuts! :laugh:
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I don't like condoms, that's why I don't use DSG.
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Has anyone noticed that on the DSG, using the stick "manually" is the wrong way round?
I'm sure early sequential gearboxes changed up and down the gears in the opposite direction?
Anyway, I'm sure you've discovered it but the best of both worlds is to leave it in D and overide the box on the paddles just as you bowl up to a hairy corner - you get that will it / wont it feeling!!!
T
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Has anyone noticed that on the DSG, using the stick "manually" is the wrong way round?
I'm sure early sequential gearboxes changed up and down the gears in the opposite direction?
Anyway, I'm sure you've discovered it but the best of both worlds is to leave it in D and overide the box on the paddles just as you bowl up to a hairy corner - you get that will it / wont it feeling!!!
T
Just a quick question. If in D mode and you use the paddles, how long is it before it goes back to automatic? Or does it stay in manual select until you press something? (Hopefully the latter - I don't want it making decisions for me until I'm happy for it to do so!)
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Come on everyone... just admit its cack!! And that you hardly ever use it in any mode but D!
Its a great invention... but its not manual, its as simple as that!
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I don't like condoms, that's why I don't use DSG.
whats that about?! :undecided: :huh: :huh:
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DSG will soon be the future of all gearbox's, suburu's new wrx and STi's are fitted with a copy of the DSG system,EVO X has something simular im sure aswell. a few years time manual gearbox's WILL be history. sitting in a slow moving traffic cue , whats worse, a dead left feeling foot and leg operating a foot pedal or ..... nothing using the DSG. No argument. envolvement my a$$!!.
just you wait and see. :wink:
What are you so called real men gonna do when that happens?? :evil:
Time to get with the changing times of technology.
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DSG will soon be the future of all gearbox's, suburu's new wrx and STi's are fitted with a copy of the DSG system,EVO X has something simular im sure aswell. a few years time manual gearbox's WILL be history. sitting in a slow moving traffic cue , whats worse, a dead left feeling foot and leg operating a foot pedal or ..... nothing using the DSG. No argument. envolvement my a$$!!.
just you wait and see. :wink:
What are you so called real men gonna do when that happens?? :evil:
Time to get with the changing times of technology.
That will be the same way as cars have gone what with being bigger, heavier, less responsive, ...... Oh and we'll have a future of cars that restrict your speed via satelight and decide when they brake for you - yeah - sounds great! :kiss:
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so we all agree - dsg is the best option then :smiley:
can't stand the comments about dsg being an ' auto ' and ' for women only ' - what a load of tosh, atleast come back with a decent arguement :angry:
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Automatos are for lazy people. Real men drive manuals :cool: :cool:
Complete nonsense - I suppose all the drivers in F1 are women then are they? Its like saying when the car was first invented, 'horseless carriages are for lazy people. Real men ride horses.' :rolleyes:
As i mentioned earlier, in my eyes at least, F1 isnt what it used to be, there's too much electronic gubbins, watch this and then honestly tell me that today's onboard F1 looks as exciting,
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=TRGdL9WkQaQ
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DSG will soon be the future of all gearbox's, suburu's new wrx and STi's are fitted with a copy of the DSG system,EVO X has something simular im sure aswell. a few years time manual gearbox's WILL be history. sitting in a slow moving traffic cue , whats worse, a dead left feeling foot and leg operating a foot pedal or ..... nothing using the DSG. No argument. envolvement my a$$!!.
just you wait and see. :wink:
What are you so called real men gonna do when that happens?? :evil:
Time to get with the changing times of technology.
The new Impreza has a normal 6 spd.
I doubt very much that manual gearboxes will become resigned to the history books, granted that dsg type boxes might become more common but there will always be a place for a manual, for people (men) who have a left leg that can operate a little pedal :tongue:
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Oh and we'll have a future of cars that restrict your speed via satelight and decide when they brake for you - yeah - sounds great! :kiss:
Well at least it will be nice and safe :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: :rolleyes: :huh: :undecided: :cry:
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As i mentioned earlier, in my eyes at least, F1 isnt what it used to be, there's too much electronic gubbins, watch this and then honestly tell me that today's onboard F1 looks as exciting,
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=TRGdL9WkQaQ
Nice video... though I don't/can't drive like that!
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Automatos are for lazy people. Real men drive manuals :cool: :cool:
Complete nonsense - I suppose all the drivers in F1 are women then are they? Its like saying when the car was first invented, 'horseless carriages are for lazy people. Real men ride horses.' :rolleyes:
As i mentioned earlier, in my eyes at least, F1 isnt what it used to be, there's too much electronic gubbins, watch this and then honestly tell me that today's onboard F1 looks as exciting,
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=TRGdL9WkQaQ
Having personally never tried DSG I cant really give my opinion. But in response to the video WOW! I had to watch it a couple of times to actually believe the amount of skill needed to drive an F1 car of that era! I am not underestimating the current drivers in F1 and dont get me wrong it takes huge talent to drive an F1 car but surely it is a lot easier task to do so with all the driver aids in the Hamilton era opposed to the manual needs in Senna's day. I am quite young and have never really seen a video of past F1 days, I was quite shocked!
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DSG will soon be the future of all gearbox's, suburu's new wrx and STi's are fitted with a copy of the DSG system,EVO X has something simular im sure aswell. a few years time manual gearbox's WILL be history. sitting in a slow moving traffic cue , whats worse, a dead left feeling foot and leg operating a foot pedal or ..... nothing using the DSG. No argument. envolvement my a$$!!.
just you wait and see. :wink:
What are you so called real men gonna do when that happens?? :evil:
Time to get with the changing times of technology.
Sitting in London traffic, any manual box is a bit annoying...that's true. Still good exercise for the poor legs.
And hey...when did we GTI drivers get so lazy we don't want to pump the clutch anymore. Guy's come on. This is a bit idiotic really. Down to personal choice and money (for some) and what ever is available (ie in 2nd hand market - for others).
So what is best doesn't really matter. I don't think I could love my GTI more if it had DSG, doesn't that really count.
Put it the other way, who here would not have GTI without DSG?
Think about that.
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Has anyone noticed that on the DSG, using the stick "manually" is the wrong way round?
I'm sure early sequential gearboxes changed up and down the gears in the opposite direction?
Anyway, I'm sure you've discovered it but the best of both worlds is to leave it in D and overide the box on the paddles just as you bowl up to a hairy corner - you get that will it / wont it feeling!!!
T
Just a quick question. If in D mode and you use the paddles, how long is it before it goes back to automatic? Or does it stay in manual select until you press something? (Hopefully the latter - I don't want it making decisions for me until I'm happy for it to do so!)
I think it changes back if:
hold the up shift for more than about 2 seconds
your redlining
your stalling
your unlucky
I'm sure it has stuff about this in the manual - along with the launch control nonsense.
If you are driving fast on twisty roads I'd stick to manual. I love the DSG box even if it make driving like a Playstation game!!!
I have an ED30 DSG and I want an R32 manual as a second car - I'm just not sure I can re mortgage again!!!
cheers
TP
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...I love the DSG box even if it make driving like a Playstation game!!!
I think you hit the nail on the head there mate!! Fortunately for me I have a playstation.. SO i think I will stick to the manual. I know where i stand with it. Dont have to worry about will it? wont it change?? limitations of DSG, Being called a girl.. when even girls would prefer a manual, woundering where the paddles have gone when your steering wheel is no longer straight, having to change modes when you have to push it, changing modes again when you no longer want to push it.
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I think it changes back if:
hold the up shift for more than about 2 seconds
your redlining
your stalling
your unlucky
I'm sure it has stuff about this in the manual - along with the launch control nonsense.
If you are driving fast on twisty roads I'd stick to manual. I love the DSG box even if it make driving like a Playstation game!!!
I have an ED30 DSG and I want an R32 manual as a second car - I'm just not sure I can re mortgage again!!!
cheers
TP
THanks for that. I haven't got my hands on my Ed30 yet so no chance to flip through the manual. (Is there an online version of it by the way?)
The 'holding the upshift' option sounds just what I was looking for... didn't want to have to take my hands off the wheel.
By the way, why get an r32 if you have an ed30?
Yes, there are benefits to an r32, but wouldn't it be better to keep the ed30 for ordinary stuff, and when you want to *drive*, get a purist sportscar such as a Lotus Elise? They're basically bulletproof - aluminium chassis, composite panels and hardly anything to go wrong, and the difference in driving response (especially the steering and direction changing) is profound. Oh, and they are a roadster, so it makes summer drives that much nicer. I used to have one plus a hatchback, and it was a great combination. I can't see the point in two hatchbacks to be honest... just a thought!
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As i mentioned earlier, in my eyes at least, F1 isnt what it used to be, there's too much electronic gubbins, watch this and then honestly tell me that today's onboard F1 looks as exciting,
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=TRGdL9WkQaQ
No doubt that is great footage - go back to the late 70's / 80's. Watch the oversteer listen to the close proximity cars - my fave!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l46ll_Utghc
and watch for the gear changes here...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uITzXIATueE
Patrick Depailler RIP - not much protection from the old F1 cars!
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says it all really
http://www.golfgtiforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=72254.0
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your girl comments do really raise the question about certain insecurities you know !
anyway - i think you will find that a ' girl ' will find it easier to operate a maunal box opposed to DSG , my wife ain't got a clue how to use it and as most people actually learn to drive with a manaul box so no wonder they prefer it ...
personally i would not have bought a gti without DSG - it would just be too ' ordinary ' - don't get me wrong, great car but if i was to go maunal then i'd go M3, TVR something with decent grunt - infact thats a thought :laugh: :laugh:
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I think you hit the nail on the head there mate!! Fortunately for me I have a playstation.. SO i think I will stick to the manual. I know where i stand with it. Dont have to worry about will it? wont it change?? limitations of DSG, Being called a girl.. when even girls would prefer a manual, woundering where the paddles have gone when your steering wheel is no longer straight, having to change modes when you have to push it, changing modes again when you no longer want to push it.
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personally i would not have bought a gti without DSG - it would just be too ' ordinary ' - don't get me wrong, great car but if i was to go maunal then i'd go M3, TVR something with decent grunt - infact thats a thought :laugh: :laugh:
Not worthy of the GTI club then. :angry: :angry:
In addition, M3s and TVRs are in slightly different league than GTI, costing many more k£.
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personally i would not have bought a gti without DSG - it would just be too ' ordinary ' - don't get me wrong, great car but if i was to go maunal then i'd go M3, TVR something with decent grunt - infact thats a thought :laugh: :laugh:
Not worthy of the GTI club then. :angry: :angry:
In addition, M3s and TVRs are in slightly different league than GTI, costing many more k£.
the gti is a great all rounder - ideally i'd love to keep it and get a ' serious ' weekend car or maybe possibly a bike....
what makes you ' worthy ' to be a member of the gti club then ?
i think the car is great and don't have a bad word to say about it - especially with dsg :wink:
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what makes you ' worthy ' to be a member of the gti club then ?
My unconditional love for the GTI. :kiss: :kiss:
Even without the DSG and all the other gizmos. :smiley: :smiley:
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What is this DGS thing then ?
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What is this DGS thing then ?
Not sure... hey has anyone heard about this DGS thing?
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Well Boys and Girls, interesting little blog this one has turned into.
Got to say I disgaree with those of you that think the 3rd pedal is directly linked to the size of what hungs between your legs, but what the hell.......if it keeps yopu happy then why not, but back to the serious stuff
DSG, well gotta say it's a mighty clever idea, but slightly flawed, and for those DSGers who drive 2 footed, you will probably have sussed out the most annoying flaw of all............but I've learnt to live with it, and the upside is that when you get the chance to really attack a great twisty road (in SE England, thats about as rare as rocking horse crap) I feel that the DSG can keep the engine in the powerband and react to gear changes faster than any manual box, thats not a personal opinion but its a fact. The fast changes really make for a real exciting drive, but to be honest the chances to drive the car like that are limited on this crowed rock where we live.
Overall, I'd give it 8 outta 10, I think that if I chopped the car for another, then would possibly lean towards the DSG again, but only if they reprogrammed it for 2 footed driving!