GolfGTIforum.co.uk
Model specific boards => Golf mk5 => Topic started by: Hurdy on 05 December 2007, 19:55
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Took the car to Awesome today and TBH I left feeling a little deflated :sad:
The day didn't start very well as I set off at 06.30am to get there for 08.30am and at 07.00am got snarled up in traffic on the M60 with an incident under that viaduct and so finally arrived at 09.30am :sick:
Couldn't take any pics of the Rolling road and so just took one of the car outside Awesome's place just to show that I have actually been there.
They were courteous and offered hot drinks, but were very busy and as such weren't really inclined to chat.
Part way through my wait I was told that the Forge Diverter valve was the wrong one and that a standard one had been delivered "by mistake". This was even though they had told me that they had a Forge DV in stock when I had booked the car in. In their favour they did do the rolling roads for free, offered 10% off the DV and free rolling roads when I go back for "some other mods" :rolleyes:
The main thing I am sure you are all waiting for is the rolling road results.............................
Before 242bhp..........after 285bhp
Before 217llb/ft......after 290lb/ft
the after includes the Carbonio ram air fitted.
The guys at Awesome tell me that the DSG and ECU will "learn to adapt to the remap and should give up more bhp and torque once it is settled in. I am a little unsure of this and as a result will be eager to see if there is any increase when I go back.
I will however feed the car on a diet of strictly V-power until then :evil:
The good news I suppose is that the torque falls within the 400nm of the DSG :smiley:
Out on the road it is a different thing. The car feels more alive and eager. The extra power and grunt is truly addictive and the delivery is smooth and progressive. Only downside is that under full accelleration in the wet in first, second AND third the ESP traction control cuts in EVEN when you turn it off. This leads to some wheel hop/axle tramp, which I will have to look into resolving soon. The pull from 30 to 70 and beyond is excellent and makes for easy peasy overtaking. Another good thing is I still haven't felt any torque steer, which on a 285bhp FWD car is superb.
Looking at the torque curve on my readout the standard max came in at around 3,000rpm and stayed at a similar level up to 5,000rpm where it gradually tails off. With the remap, the max torque comes in at around 3,200 rpm BUT the torque is higher than the 217lb/ft max of the standard car all the way from 2,500rpm to 6,500rpm :evil:
Looking at the power curve, the remap is very similar in profile to the standard map, although it is consistently around 55 to 60bhp more until the last 500rpm (where the max power should be) where it levels off. Power is greater than the max 242bhp of the standard car from 4,600rpm to the 6,800rpm :evil:
I was hoping for an ultimately higher power output, but I am happy with the torque level. Awesome advertise the ED30 remap as 290-305bhp and I would have thought that if they advertise it, they should deliver it?. Time will tell at the next visit whether or not more power is forthcoming. Overall I am happy and would rather have a smooth progressive map at 285bhp, than ask the guys at Awesome to commit to a 300bhp remap and end up with a peaky remap with flat spots in it. :smiley:
Can I recommend APR and Awesome?.......sure I can :smiley:
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Sounds good. Now where is my Christmas list.
The traffic going in that direction in a morning is a nighmare! :laugh:
Are you going to post the graphs, before and after? :smiley:
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I was stuck in that traffic this morning it was a pain the arse!!!!!! :angry:
Hopefully Ill be makin the same trip as you in 2 months time as long as the boys in wolfsburg keep busy!
I think you do have to give your ecu time to learn the new map, gaz the guy who is known as 'gazbutmk5gti' on here has had his ed30 done at awesome, he has said the power gets better every day. I would'nt be surprised if you see another 10-15 bhp if you have it rollin roaded in a few months. :smiley:
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bit of an ass the figures wernt as told.. lets hope it improves a tad! happty xmas golf :laugh:
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Sounds good. Now where is my Christmas list.
The traffic going in that direction in a morning is a nighmare! :laugh:
Are you going to post the graphs, before and after? :smiley:
Hi Tagnut,
Here are the dyno plots. They only did one run of each, so I am thinking that usually on a Rolling Road day they print 3 and people put up the best figures :undecided:. I just have the one to rely one
(http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t8/hurdy_album/Awesomedyno.jpg)
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Great on the feedback Hurdy
I wouldnt be dissapointed at all , the absolute values are not important its the % increase :laugh:
group buy on the 'dog done' insert :grin:
Hows the cruise control? And has it been fitted ok?
Is the intake sound any different?
Get the graph scans up too !
besides we all know its the DSG + silver combo that held the output back , black + manual and Awesome quote 30bhp+
:tongue:
JohnO
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Just got the scan up before you posted. You must have been writing the post at the time :wink:
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How much did this all set you back??? (If you don't mind me asking?) :nerd:
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Hurdy,
That looks really sweet. I really like the way its takes the standard gti map and amplifys the power and torque. This is exactly what im hoping for from the Revo.
I wouldnt bother too much about graphs and figures mate. They basically are just e-thingye's. Remember its your car and your day to day drive and as long as you can feel the difference thats all that matters :wink: !
I also think once the map is well intergrated, the power will increase as stated by Awesome.
Enjoy it mate !
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How much did this all set you back??? (If you don't mind me asking?) :nerd:
Just over £800, including the Carbonio.
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Does anyone understand how the ecu is supposed to learn the remap??? I come from a software background and find it slightly hard to grasp... surely someone has questioned this previously?? no?? :undecided:
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People, could you please explain to me the meaning of "wheel hop/axle tramp". I don't understand. :embarassed:
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Hurdy, was it remap + intake for 800 quid? Or something else was also done, like new intercooler and exhaust?
Congrats on your "new" E30! :laugh:
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Hurdy, was it remap + intake for 800 quid? Or something else was also done, like new intercooler and exhaust?
Congrats on your "new" E30! :laugh:
Remap and intake only.
Going back at a later date for some more bits :cool:
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People, could you please explain to me the meaning of "wheel hop/axle tramp". I don't understand. :embarassed:
Wheel hop/axle tramp is when you put down too much power for the front wheels to handle for the road conditions. This results in the front wheels bouncing up and down on the floor, which can get heavier if you keep your foot on the accelerator. It can be exaggerated even further with the traction control off and would feel like a violent shudder at the front of the car :sick:
Control is usually resumed by upgrading suspension parts for something firmer (dog bone inserts, uprated springs and dampers etc), but even this can only reduce it when you have a big bhp car
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People, could you please explain to me the meaning of "wheel hop/axle tramp". I don't understand. :embarassed:
Wheel hop/axle tramp is when you put down too much power for the front wheels to handle for the road conditions. This results in the front wheels bouncing up and down on the floor, which can get heavier if you keep your foot on the accelerator. It can be exaggerated even further with the traction control off and would feel like a violent shudder at the front of the car :sick:
Control is usually resumed by upgrading suspension parts for something firmer (dog bone inserts, uprated springs and dampers etc), but even this can only reduce it when you have a big bhp car
Scheisse! :sad: Wheel hop qualifies for name Scheissendreck. :sick:
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Does anyone understand how the ecu is supposed to learn the remap??? I come from a software background and find it slightly hard to grasp... surely someone has questioned this previously?? no?? :undecided:
THis bothered me too. The only thing I can think of is if the Map goes through some sort of buffer. It takes whatever is in the map and then applies it progresively depending on the drivers driving style over an extendend period of time (But I don't know why it would do this). The ECU's in these things are far removed from the simple coding in earlier ECU's like the digifant system in the MKII/III.
Nick
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Does anyone understand how the ecu is supposed to learn the remap??? I come from a software background and find it slightly hard to grasp... surely someone has questioned this previously?? no?? :undecided:
THis bothered me too. The only thing I can think of is if the Map goes through some sort of buffer. It takes whatever is in the map and then applies it progresively depending on the drivers driving style over an extendend period of time (But I don't know why it would do this). The ECU's in these things are far removed from the simple coding in earlier ECU's like the digifant system in the MKII/III.
Nick
Hmmm sound like one viable way of doing it.. but surely this would involve some kind of recording of drivers driving style. Which I just cant see why there would be any facility with the current CU to do this. From what I understand about the remap its simply modifying a few of the standard limits set by VW. The dont seem to add any facility to record data. I am convinced that it just another way of saying "you'll get used to it!! Now get off my land!"
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i to was dissapointed with my rolling rd figures, 294bhp, and 304ft/lb, superchips quote 307 bhp, but at the end of the day it drives fantastic very very smooth power delivery, floor throttle at 4000 revs in 3rd gear and it makes you smile, and hang on.
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i to was dissapointed with my rolling rd figures, 294bhp, and 304ft/lb, superchips quote 307 bhp, but at the end of the day it drives fantastic very very smooth power delivery, floor throttle at 4000 revs in 3rd gear and it makes you smile, and hang on.
The most important thing is that you enjoy the drive after its done.. No point worrying about figures on a graph. If you improve your driving style im sure that you can more than make up the time lost without a few BHP. I just dont think they should say things like it will learn to be better, and just say as your engine get its ass woooped that little bit more it will loosen up some!
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increase sound good Hurdy :cool: outright power figures aren't important; usable power is what counts day to day :afro:
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The way I understand the learning/settling in issue within the ECU is that it has a certain amount of built in automatic adjustment, so when a base map or remap is installed the ECU can adjust certain parameters ignition timing,fuelling, boost settings slightly to get the best results for the engine in question, this isn't a new thing the mk4 Golf and older VAG cars did it as well.
When intially mapped my car did low 290's and 2 weeks later it did 298, but this could also be down to a few more miles on the car.
Hurdy, did you manage to get a figure before the carbonio, as this is the only difference between our cars it does make me think.
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The way I understand the learning/settling in issue within the ECU is that it has a certain amount of built in automatic adjustment, so when a base map or remap is installed the ECU can adjust certain parameters ignition timing,fuelling, boost settings slightly to get the best results for the engine in question, this isn't a new thing the mk4 Golf and older VAG cars did it as well.
When intially mapped my car did low 290's and 2 weeks later it did 298, but this could also be down to a few more miles on the car.
Hurdy, did you manage to get a figure before the carbonio, as this is the only difference between our cars it does make me think.
No, unfortunately I didn't get an RR before the Carbonio. If I hadn't been stuck in traffic and been over an hour late I'm sure they would have accommodated me with the extra Rolling Roads though. It does sound encouraging that you managed a higher output after a couple of weeks settling in of the remap. :smiley:
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Hey hurdy congrats on the car, bet its awesome with the DSG and 285bhp. i wouldnt worry about the map learning thing, when i had mine done it felt alot faster, but once you have done 100 miles, it opens up even more!! i think its like 80% new power straight away and a further 20% as it learns the new software, or sumfin :undecided: :smiley:
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Thanks Joe,
It feels realy, really eager on the throttle now :evil: before it was good, but this is now a car in a different league. I can't wait for next year and it's Santa Pod here I come :cool:
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whats the reckonin for the carbonio got the chance of one? but seen some thread else where about diy direct feed for the car.
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Congrats on the upgrades hurdy and thanks for the summary. Sounds like it was worth the money! :evil: How is the car handling in the twisty turnys with standard suspension and remap? And is there any torque steer?
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whats the reckonin for the carbonio got the chance of one? but seen some thread else where about diy direct feed for the car.
I would have personally likedd to have seen the difference before and after the Carbonio was fitted, but on a Rolling Road with air being fed into the car by fan I doubt if it would show much difference to the output. I suppose it would work better out on the open road though. It looks mint though :cool:
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Congrats on the upgrades Hurdy. Im sure you are loving them.
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Nice wright-up Hurdy, glad your happy with the upgrades :cool: I really wanted the Milltek Turbo back system but it's all gone quiet on that front, I have left my name and number with Milltek and sent a couple of emails but nothing back as yet :cry: maybe I'll try some other mod's now... :evil:
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Nice wright-up Hurdy, glad your happy with the upgrades :cool: I really wanted the Milltek Turbo back system but it's all gone quiet on that front, I have left my name and number with Milltek and sent a couple of emails but nothing back as yet :cry: maybe I'll try some other mod's now... :evil:
I couldn't wait either.
Just need to go back after Christmas and hopefully there will be a Milltek available then :undecided:
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a guy i know from cupra.net just had a turbo back fitted to his mk2 cupra, they made it OEM oval tail pipe so no good for us but that can be altered by them no probs, they also did a 3" downpipe too, so hopefully if they get there finger out it wont be much longer.
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The Milltek boys are all playing with the R8 they have in for development. While they have that I'm sure a few things have been forgotten at the back of the workshop :grin:
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The Milltek boys are all playing with the R8 they have in for development. While they have that I'm sure a few things have been forgotten at the back of the workshop :grin:
It has already been developed. fastismycopilot on UKMKIV's had his car in with Milltek for a week and he says the full system is a 3" system all the way through :cool:
They just need to get their finger out and release it :angry:
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Hurdy,
what affect has the remap made to your fuel economy?
Is it better, worse or same?
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I wouldn't mind the Milltek but am quite worried about the noise increase. Will have to hear one in action before I decide.
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Hurdy,
what affect has the remap made to your fuel economy?
Is it better, worse or same?
Don't really measure it, although it averaged 36 on the fuel consumption on the way back on the motorway stretch, so it looks like roughly the sam as before. I would suspect that when you nail it, you will see a significant drop though.
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Hurdy,
what affect has the remap made to your fuel economy?
Is it better, worse or same?
Don't really measure it, although it averaged 36 on the fuel consumption on the way back on the motorway stretch, so it looks like roughly the sam as before. I would suspect that when you nail it, you will see a significant drop though.
How's the car been after you've had it remapped?? Are you finding its getting quicker day by day?, or have you not noticed much change? Whats the power like now compared to standard?
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Hurdy,
what affect has the remap made to your fuel economy?
Is it better, worse or same?
Don't really measure it, although it averaged 36 on the fuel consumption on the way back on the motorway stretch, so it looks like roughly the sam as before. I would suspect that when you nail it, you will see a significant drop though.
How's the car been after you've had it remapped?? Are you finding its getting quicker day by day?, or have you not noticed much change? Whats the power like now compared to standard?
I would say that up to 3,000 revs there is just that little bit more urgency about the car and the throttle seems crisper to react. Above 3,000 revs OMG!!!
Full throttle attacks on the road are truely awesome. Wheras before the remap the accelleration grew up to the red line, now there is simply a huge increase in accelleration all the way to the red line. All I can liken it to is the same accelleration you get in a 996 Porsche - but more so :shocked:
I haven't noticed much change in the power from when I first had it remapped to now, but I think that is more to do with ultimate figures at the extreme end of the performance range, rather than noticing anything in the mid range powerband.
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Well Hurdy, you've convinced me to get my backside down to Awesome in Manchester. :smiley:
I think i will be popping down there in the new year to get the APR remap along with the Forge DV. Probably will be looking at shelling out £800
APR remap should take my car upto 252bhp.
Is the Carbonia intake really necessary?
£499 for the APR remap
£150 for the Forge DV
£xx for rolling road
£50 in fuel to get down there and back up :grin:
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The Carbonio was just one of those "I want it, so I'll have it" moments. It gives the engine a slightly more fruity tone (which I like :cool:) and looks gorgeous. Time will tell whether or not it is worth it when I get the full Milltek system to work in harmony with it.
More air in, easier breathing out = more power :evil:
I know it doesn't realistically need more power, especially on slippery winter roads - but I just can't help myself. It must be an illness of some sort :laugh:
Oh, by the way, try and blag free before and after RR's and say you want it for the forum :wink: I did.