GolfGTIforum.co.uk
Model specific boards => Golf mk2 => Topic started by: Mk2George on 28 November 2007, 18:35
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Hi guys, just bought a 16v mk2 and collected it last night. Set off and everything seemed ok but by the time my mate and I got to our first service station we noticed the exhaust had started blowing a lot but didnt think much more of it. The valver didnt seem to have much poke to it but I put that down to the exhaust being blown and the engine not getting much back pressure from it, anyway, nearly at the end of our journey and the engine starts to `shudder` (as if it wasnt firing but the forward motion of the car is keeping it going) as im cruising at 70 and the power loss becomes such that I have to slow and eventually stop. After 10 minutes she works again but is very low on power so I have to crawl along the hard shoulder and pull off the next exit. We set off again and then the centre section detaches and starts scraping along the ground but the car is still going. About 500 yards from home she gives up the ghost and we have to push her the rest of the way.
Now my big question is that is the fun and games with the power loss etc all to do with the exhaust as surely it would still run even with no back box? Someone has advised me to check the oil pressure (the oil was 102 degrees btw) and now im worried that the block is worn and that ive bought a sh!tter.
Is there anything you knowledgable 16v owners can advise me to check or do or once I put on a new exhaust should normal service resume?
Please, any advice would be greatly appreciated
Thanks :smiley:
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the exhaust would not stop or give u less power...and sure as hell would not make ur car come to a stop....doesnt sound to healthy...if i was you id of turned back and took car back to previous owner and kicked his balls took my money back and go look for another car....
id get it taken to garage and get them to have a good look at it...could be someting simple(i hope so)...or something quite serious...like bottom end away....all fixable but not cheap unless ur mechanic ur self ...cos parts not to expensive for mk2 valvers...but labour cost can kill you....
i wouldnt even attempt to start it...get looked at asap...exhaust is least of ur worrys bud.....
p.s. hope its a easy fix...
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Cheers for the reply bobby. I got the car for next to nothing and its a run-off 92 Oak green 16v so id like to try and get her running, taking it back isnt really an option so Im hoping someone might have some answers as to why it would do that in the first place, anyone had/have experience of this?
Engine temp = normal
Nothing dripping out of it ....
Maybe the oil is the wrong grade, too thin??
Gonna brave the cold and have a little poke around for the sake of it :embarassed:
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Well, oil just below min but thats not going to stop it ..... still looking for any suggestions. Im curious what the housing with all of the pipes coming from it that run along the front of the engine are, best guess is injectors? Tis a different world to my 8v :undecided:
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I thought i had everything go wrong on mine but yours is something I haven't come across!
Firstly what are the symptoms now when you try to crank the engine? Does it start/crank but not fire/fire up and cut out etc?
As a brief check for any valver with a problem:
Check your airfilter isn't blocked up
Check your airfilter doesn't have any oil on it - if it does remove the black intake trunk that goes on top of the airbox and see how much oil there is on the plate. Valvers can suffer from breathing problems due to being overfilled with oil or blocked crank breather pipes.
Check your dizzy cap and arm aren't worn
Check the hall sender plug is on the dizzy and not snapped off
Take off the scuttle tray on the drivers' corner and look at the ECU. Remove the plug and see the pins aren't corroded on the ECU and the plug connection.
The lack of power is something new, I think its to do with air going in or coming out so as you will need to get the exhaust fixed anyway that would be something to rule out. But i doubt the back pressure is so little that the car shouldn't run.
PM me if you need more detail in what to check.
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Sounds like a can of worms mate. You should post something in the garage section, probably get more success there.
That said i would be interested to know what the problem is myself. It's probably something simple, usually is :smiley:
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As with all the above but check your fuel filter as well. The last guy may have run it on empty before selling it, thus sucking all the crap from the bottom of the tank.
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I'd start by checking the ignition system, new cap, arm and plugs, followed by a thorough check of the leads. Sounds to me like it was only firing on 3 near the end!
As for fueling issues, one thing to check is the bolt on the fuel inlet to the fuel metering head. 16vs from new came with a special bolt with a filter inside, to catch and small debris from the manufactuing procvess. This should have been removed at the first service interval, but there have been many cases where they had been left in place, eventually causing isses when they become clogged up. Bin the bolt and fit a normal one, or rip out the filter if its possible to?
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Thanks for all the replies chaps, much appreciated. Ive had the injectors out and discovered 2 things, firstly 2 of the 4 injectors have no rubber seal on them (!) there are 2 per injector and 2 of the bottom ones are just not there. Secondly after getting a fax of the injection system from my local VW dealer I see that there are meant to be clips that hold the injectors in and mine doesnt have these?
I was told by the VW parts guy that it didnt show a part number for them on his ETKA system and so they wont be on the car anyway? True or false, seems a bit odd that the injectors should only be held in place with rubber seals
Oh it starts up and idles wonderfully leon, just when you put any load on the engine it dies
Bought a new centre sec today so theres my afternoon tomorrow taken up :) Great fun
The old girl .....
(http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f152/clio36/IMG_0139.jpg)
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i would most deffo check that the fuel pump and lift pump are putting out what they should. my mk3 had a very similar problem and it turned out to be the mamin pump under the chassis. only £120 genuine. get a garage to meter the flow at tick over then at high revs with the car under load.
good luck.
jase
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If your gonna look at the fuel pump then I would defo check the lift pump first as these obviously can fail but there not as much to buy as the main pump thats under the car but can still cause fuel starvation and to be honest I would try everything rubjonny suggests because if he dont know it, it aint worth knowing :wink:
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There are no clips to hold in the 16v injectors, just the upper seals. The lower seals arnt as important, but it lookslike they got old n brittle and fell off. New upper seals all round would be my next port of call, possibly just fit a new set of brass ones just becasue they're cheap!
I'm not sure what the clips in the diagram were for, but not required. The 16v has 2 pumps, one under the car and another in the fuel tank, it does sound like the lift pump may have packed up. Get under the car and disconnect the wiring plug to the main pump, then turn the key 1 click so the fuel system primes. You should hear the lift pump in the tank, if not its dead :)
An 8v or 16v GTI lift pump will do, but the pre/post 90 pumps have different plugs, the lat ones have 4 pins & early only 3 iirc. Lift up the boot carpet and you'll see a round metal plate, remove this then check out which plug your pump has.
Main issue with swapping them is if you can undo the large plastic nut holding it in, in the end I had to cut mine off it was so tight! Not expensive from VW though.
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Told you :grin: :wink:
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Ok, changed the exhaust today and fired her up agian, running sweet as a nut on tick over and throttle seems ok too, gonna flash the cash at halfords tomorrow and basically buy everthing they have that fits, guess the real test is taking her for a run, fingers crossed eh? Fuel pump is a noisy bugger too so I may need to look into that!
(http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f152/clio36/IMG_0146.jpg)
(http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f152/clio36/IMG_0143.jpg)
(http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f152/clio36/IMG_0145.jpg)
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noooo don't buy bits from Halfords :grin:
http://www.vwspares.co.uk
http://www.gsfcarparts.com
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Okay, decided to do a full service today and cranked her up to get warmed up for an oil change. Ran for about 2 minutes then started spluttering before eventually dieing and will not start again. Pulled out the injectors 1 by one and found that there was no fuel at all coming out when trying to crank it.
Had a look at all of the banjo bolts and there seems to be plenty of fuel getting to these, no blockages here as far as we can see ....
(http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f152/clio36/IMG_0153.jpg)
So my first question is, what is the unit fitted to the side of the block as pictured below?
(http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f152/clio36/IMG_0152.jpg)
Does this have some kind of filter in it as previously mentioned or is that the bolt in the unit where the fuel goes in as pictured below
(http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f152/clio36/IMG_0155-1.jpg)
It does sound a lot like one of the fuel pumps has packed in as rubjonny mentioned but any further ideas are appreciated
(http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f152/clio36/IMG_0154.jpg)
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the bit on the block is the warm up regulator, the bolt that may/may not have a filter in is the main inlet line to the side of the fuel metering head from the fuel pumps :)
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So whats your diagnosis then John, sound like one of the pumps is definately gone as you suggested?
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You could try changing the main fuel filter - its a cheap option.
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Aye, Ive got one of those ready to go on. Was the plan to do a full service today before she died! :cry:
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Incidently there are two small wire mesh gauzes in the WUR:
(http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n315/Leon-R/14052007071.jpg)
Remove the two banjo bolts that the fuel lines go to and you will see them underneath. In one WUR i found some brown stuff in them.
I had a very random problem where my car cut out over long journeys and i replaced things i didn't need to as no one on any forum could help. It could be the metering head itself, the flap could be stiff and not move as freely, the pumps, something electrical. My advice would be as Conker said, change the cheap parts such as the fuel filter which probably is due for changing but donor the rest.
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Cheers Leon, I did notice that that particular unit is only held on with allen bolt which has a rounded head, the unit itself was actually moving when I was putting pressure on to release the banjo`s. When I get some time and more importantly some light I will take a look at all the suggestions here.
Thanks for the help guys, its much appreciated, Ill keep you up to date with what goes on :smiley:
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it does sound like it could be fuel starvation, I'd start by checking the lift pump. As I said in my last post (;)) unplug the main under car pump then turn the key 1 click, if you hear the in-tank pump prime then its working, if not then you need to replace it!
If that fails I'd take the inlet bolt out and check its not got the filter in it, then replace the under car filter. Generally the injection filters don't go wrong unless some crud has got into the tank thought. And be prepared for a fight, the k-jet filters can be a b!tch to change!
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there is certainly a whirr that lasts a couple of seconds coming from the tank when i turn the key to 1, is this what im listening for or is that the pump i need to disconnect?
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both will prime at the same time, to check if the lift pump is working you gotta unplug the main pump so it doesnt drown out the sound of the lift pump :)
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Gotcha, thanks very much :cool:
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I'm doing the exact same thing. Think I'm going to get the garage to do the lift pump and filter though as I'm a bit worried about di#king around with the fuel tank. KABOOM!
My 16v has similar symptoms, especially at high speeds, so Im going to change the above and then possibly the injectors themselves. I might get the garage to give the fuel tank a flush as well.
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Back again! :cry:
Ok Ive changed the fuel filter and tested the 2 pumps, both are working fine. I noticed the pump under the car is brand new so maybe the car has had similar problems in the past. Tried cranking her again and no joy, just turns over. Oddly it seems more inclined to try and start with one of the injectors out? I took this out to see if there was fuel coming through and its spraying fine.
I think i can now more or less rule out fuel starvation unless theres something else you guys can suggest I check? Took out the plugs one by one and they had a very nice coating of petrol on them so cleaned them up and checked they were sparking which they are. Im putting the coating of petrol on them down to flooding the pistons with trying to start her so much this afternoon!
So once again im well and truly stuck, anything I should be moving on to check now? Maybe she will start once the petrol in the piston has evaporated by im not holding my breath!
And further advice is much appreciated, Cheers
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ITS ALIVE! Spoke to a few chaps @work (I work in a BMW dealership) who have experience of Kjet injection systems and after disconnecting the 5th warm up injector she now runs, flooding the system apparently
So ill be back in about 2 days when somethnig else dont work lol
Happy New year
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:smiley:
Well done! Do you work in Lister Park? I work in a BMW dealership too and know some guys there come all the way down for training in Reading.
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I work for Stratstone Harrogate mate. Gotta say I do like the Bmw`s but they lack character lol Thanks for your help btw, appreciated :wink: