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Model specific boards => Golf mk2 => Topic started by: Horney on 28 November 2007, 09:02

Title: 2.0 16v (ABF) into MKII Digi 8v
Post by: Horney on 28 November 2007, 09:02
Last night I was reading a how to on the above engine swap on E38. Seems an easy and cheaper routo to more power than tuning the 8v lump.

Has anyone on here done this and is the ABF lump tuneable (Cam's etc)? While I love my 8v's and would prefer to stick with it for sheer pig headedness this option seems very tempting to my low budget approach to my MKII.

Nick
Title: Re: 2.0 16v (ABF) into MKII Digi 8v
Post by: dubslug on 28 November 2007, 09:29
i was told to go that way too...
but i like the way 8vs drive hence the route im going.....
a 2l 8v block can be picked up cheap, then its just a case of swapping ur mk 2 stuff over, easy...

think the 16v route u got wiring to do aswell
Title: Re: 2.0 16v (ABF) into MKII Digi 8v
Post by: Horney on 28 November 2007, 09:34
Yeah I had a good read last night because they are both digifant then it's just a case of changing the ABF loom a small amount which I'm cool with. For me it's an easier swap as it's pretty much plug and play. I'm too skint to do it at the moment but it does seem possible to do in a day with 2 people and an engine hoist.

What I would really like to know is what is the ABF engine like?

Nick
Title: Re: 2.0 16v (ABF) into MKII Digi 8v
Post by: dubslug on 28 November 2007, 09:43
think rubjonny has done this swap for someone, im sure he will be able to give u more info...
once mines done ill let u have a spin
Title: Re: 2.0 16v (ABF) into MKII Digi 8v
Post by: Horney on 28 November 2007, 09:46
once mines done ill let u have a spin

I'll hold you to that!

Nick
Title: Re: 2.0 16v (ABF) into MKII Digi 8v
Post by: dubslug on 28 November 2007, 09:57
depending on box coming back in hopig to drop it in this weekend
Title: Re: 2.0 16v (ABF) into MKII Digi 8v
Post by: Mr Blue on 28 November 2007, 10:15
i bet rubjonny did that with his eyes closed :grin:

http://www.clubgti.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=133418
Title: Re: 2.0 16v (ABF) into MKII Digi 8v
Post by: nealey on 28 November 2007, 11:40
I was looking into this but then after selling my 16v to buy an 8v i decided it would of been a pointless affair and ive managed to pick a decent 2e engine up for practically nothing so am going the 2.0 8v route now but when i get bored of that i shall be turning to ABF!
Title: Re: 2.0 16v (ABF) into MKII Digi 8v
Post by: Horney on 28 November 2007, 12:26
i bet rubjonny did that with his eyes closed :grin:

http://www.clubgti.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=133418

THis is the same guide I looked at on E38. Very interesting and looks feasable in a weekend.

So what output is the ABF 150bhp?

Nick
Title: Re: 2.0 16v (ABF) into MKII Digi 8v
Post by: nealey on 28 November 2007, 12:30
i bet rubjonny did that with his eyes closed :grin:

http://www.clubgti.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=133418

THis is the same guide I looked at on E38. Very interesting and looks feasable in a weekend.

So what output is the ABF 150bhp?

Nick

Yeah 150bhp, although there was one in a mk2 in a mag not to long ago which used iirc south african cams and a few other little bits and it made 170bhp, think it said they were on e38 forums as well
Title: Re: 2.0 16v (ABF) into MKII Digi 8v
Post by: Horney on 28 November 2007, 12:36
170bhp you say? That's gotta be propper quick, was he still running the standard digifant set up?

*Scurries off to see how uch an ABF will cost on eBay*

Nick
Title: Re: 2.0 16v (ABF) into MKII Digi 8v
Post by: VeeDubGTI16v on 28 November 2007, 13:01
generally it seems the abf's on kjet make 160-170 in a mk2 after a setup at stealth, i dunno what can be done to the digifants?
Title: Re: 2.0 16v (ABF) into MKII Digi 8v
Post by: Horney on 28 November 2007, 13:25
Probably not as much but it appeals for it's plug and playness so should be reliable etc.

I'd be happy with 150 tbh, but 170 would be wicked!

Nick
Title: Re: 2.0 16v (ABF) into MKII Digi 8v
Post by: rubjonny on 28 November 2007, 13:44
yeah i did this to J_S' car, was a straightforward swap but wasn't as easy as the 2.0 bottom end I fitted to my 8v!

The loom will plug in IF you have a 90 spec car, but it isn't quite as simple as that, there are 1 or 2 wires that need swapping/splicing between the MK2 & MK3 engine loom.

You also have to spend a while binning all the crap from the MK3 loom that you dont need, lighting etc etc.  Best way is to pull the old MK2 loom out, keep the lighting part then work on the MK3 loom stripping it down, then compare what few plugs you have left to the MK2 looms, swapping/splicing wires where needed.

Best way to strip the MK3 loom is to start with the ECU loom, and bin EVERYTHING that isnt connected to it, if it aint running to/from the ECU ore one of the engine sensors you dont need it!  Main one to watch out for is the lambda probe plug, it has 1 wire to the ecu and earth/power wires to the fusebox you'll need to keep, and MAKE sure you get the diagnostics plug, and if its a post 96 get the key from the car along with the transponder ring from ignition surround, along with the control box and associated wiring.

Once you identify unneded wires, use my fusebox FAQ to treack down all the pins on the MK3 plugs, to double, double check you dont need them, then chopy chopy.

After that the hard part is over, engine will bolt straight in using MK2 mounts and mount brackets, keep your old gearbox unless it knackered or you plan to go for BIG power, and use a std MK2 16v manifold & downpipe for an easy life.  The OEM VW units are proven to flow very well :)
Title: Re: 2.0 16v (ABF) into MKII Digi 8v
Post by: Horney on 28 November 2007, 13:56
What's the difference between pre and post 90 Digifant then as mines an 88?

Nick
Title: Re: 2.0 16v (ABF) into MKII Digi 8v
Post by: rubjonny on 28 November 2007, 14:01
the fusebox & car loom is the difference!  Not the end o the world you could identify said engine wires and splice them into your pre-90 loom.  Or you could do what I did on J_S' MK2 and completly rewire it to 90 spec standard :)
Title: Re: 2.0 16v (ABF) into MKII Digi 8v
Post by: Horney on 28 November 2007, 14:11
I reckon this is the way to go then as on the shorter ratio 8v gearbox it should be a right screamer. Once I've sorted out some nice rims and tidied up the bodywork I'll have to start getting bits and bobs purchased for this!

Nick
Title: Re: 2.0 16v (ABF) into MKII Digi 8v
Post by: dubslug on 28 November 2007, 16:25
sounds like 2l bottom ends cheaper and easier to me
Title: Re: 2.0 16v (ABF) into MKII Digi 8v
Post by: Horney on 28 November 2007, 16:31
You don't like wiring do you mate? Looks easier if you ask me and certainly more bang per £.

Nick
Title: Re: 2.0 16v (ABF) into MKII Digi 8v
Post by: rubjonny on 28 November 2007, 16:34
nah 2.0 bottom is by fa rthe easiest option, unbolt head, bolt to 2.0 block, fit engine back in same eway it came out, job done ;)
Title: Re: 2.0 16v (ABF) into MKII Digi 8v
Post by: Horney on 28 November 2007, 16:36
But surely with a bit of prep work on the wiring before hand the ABF is just remove engine, insert engine.

Nick
Title: Re: 2.0 16v (ABF) into MKII Digi 8v
Post by: rubjonny on 28 November 2007, 16:39
yeah, but old wiring has to come out, zuast has to be changed, etc etc ;)

Sorting the wiring alone took me pretty much all day, put it that way :)
Title: Re: 2.0 16v (ABF) into MKII Digi 8v
Post by: Horney on 28 November 2007, 16:45
True but I'm quite happy with wiring if I know what I'm doing and all that can be prep'd in advance and the exhaust is easy with the engine out.

Anyhoo I won't be doing it till next autumn so I'll have to wait till then to put my oney where my mouth is!

Nick
Title: Re: 2.0 16v (ABF) into MKII Digi 8v
Post by: rubjonny on 28 November 2007, 16:48
yes, im not saying abf is hard, but it certainly isnt easier than a 2.0 8v bottom end ;)
Title: Re: 2.0 16v (ABF) into MKII Digi 8v
Post by: MarkS on 28 November 2007, 20:01
Which is the better engine out of the mk2 16v engine and the mk3?
I heard that one of the mk3 engines (might have been the 8v?) felt a lot lazier than that of the mk2?
Or are the mk3 engines superior?

Just interested really  :smiley:
Title: Re: 2.0 16v (ABF) into MKII Digi 8v
Post by: rubjonny on 29 November 2007, 10:15
the abf engine is excellent, its very strong and can cope with boost as std.  Its very tunable also!  ABF on K-Jet is an excellent combination, and makes great power out of the box!
Title: Re: 2.0 16v (ABF) into MKII Digi 8v
Post by: WolfieMk2 on 30 November 2007, 06:14
Hi
Can someone direct me to the e38 site please. I'd like to read the article as I am considering an 8v to 2ltr 16v swap for my MK2 gti also. Thanks.
Title: Re: 2.0 16v (ABF) into MKII Digi 8v
Post by: Horney on 30 November 2007, 09:52
read thi sone bud, it's the same:


http://www.clubgti.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=133418

Nick
Title: Re: 2.0 16v (ABF) into MKII Digi 8v
Post by: woodlehouse on 02 December 2007, 12:08
why would you fit an abf then put all the sh1t usless kr crap all over it

to get an abf ( inc abf loom etc ) to 170bhp is a piece os p1ss

my old c reg mk3 1.3 that i 2.0 16v abf'd

(http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r276/oakgreen_est/my%20golfs/bluemk2golfabf.jpg)

stock engine , induction filter , 1.8 16v kr cams ( gives overlap on valves compared to stock abf cams ) de cat , scorpion exhaust , magnax 4 branch , ecu chip produced 174 bhp @ 5800 rpm & 159 ftlbs tork

( unfortuanatly car was written off by a mate i sold it too , so i fitted the engine to a lads car from sunderland below)

(http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r276/oakgreen_est/my%20golfs/bens2016v.jpg)

(http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r276/oakgreen_est/my%20golfs/20abfengine.jpg)

(http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r276/oakgreen_est/my%20golfs/20abfengine2.jpg)

currently building a mk2 track car for a client with abf for next years racing season should be up near 200 bhp n/a
will also be building an abf turbo polo classic saloon next year for our own road leagal track toy

the blue mk2 abf would keep with impreza wrx wagons upto 115 mph .well funny also did 145mph on the toledo clocks ( using 02a cable change box)

I WOULD SAY THE ABF IS THE BEST VALUE CONVERSION £ FOR BHP GOING & IS SO DRIVABLE  :laugh: SHOULD HAVE DONE ANOTHER INSTEAD OF THE 20VT PROJECT  :cry:

Title: Re: 2.0 16v (ABF) into MKII Digi 8v
Post by: WolfieMk2 on 02 December 2007, 12:16
Can anyone elaborate of what `iirc' South African cams are? Cam shafts of course, but out of what?
Title: Re: 2.0 16v (ABF) into MKII Digi 8v
Post by: rubjonny on 03 December 2007, 08:50
theres nothing wrong with KR managment, in fact if you run the ABF on KR mangement it'll be faster than it would be using the stock ABF managment ;)  Of course you can get the ABF remapped to bring the performance back up, the ABF managment is more tuned for economy than performance, with KR, the opposite is true :cool:

Plus if you already have a 16v MK2, theres no point ripping out all the managemnt and putting in the ABF stuff, when you can just chuck the ABF block in and plug all the KR stuff straight into the block, much easier.

Have a read of Toyotects posts, the ABF+KR managment offers the best out of the box performance, he only managed to improve it by going megasquirt!
Title: Re: 2.0 16v (ABF) into MKII Digi 8v
Post by: VeeDubGTI16v on 03 December 2007, 10:46
kjets been proven to work up to 200bhp as well so i see no point in swapping it until either forced induction or throttle bodies are fitted
Title: Re: 2.0 16v (ABF) into MKII Digi 8v
Post by: Ben Lessani on 04 December 2007, 09:18
Can I just jump in, which 2l block is it that bolts onto the GTi 8v K-Jet head to get a little power increase. Since I've got the engine out my car, it seems like the best time to just get it fitted up....and what else would need to be changed, clutch etc?
Title: Re: 2.0 16v (ABF) into MKII Digi 8v
Post by: Horney on 04 December 2007, 09:19
9a I think.

Nick
Title: Re: 2.0 16v (ABF) into MKII Digi 8v
Post by: rubjonny on 04 December 2007, 10:57
nope 9a is a 16v lump, you need a 2.0 8v lump like the 2e from the golf mk3/vento/passat/seat or 6a from an audi.  Problems with the dizzy will result from you having k-jet, you need a spacer ring and swap the dizzy gear from the old dizzy to the k-jet one.
Title: Re: 2.0 16v (ABF) into MKII Digi 8v
Post by: Horney on 04 December 2007, 10:59
My bad, the 16v nature of this thread made 9a pop into my head.

Nick
Title: Re: 2.0 16v (ABF) into MKII Digi 8v
Post by: VeeDubGTI16v on 04 December 2007, 11:01
6a is 16v aswell isnt it?
Title: Re: 2.0 16v (ABF) into MKII Digi 8v
Post by: rubjonny on 04 December 2007, 11:08
actually yeah now you mention it it is  :grin:
The 2.0 8v block is the 3A code, oopsy!