GolfGTIforum.co.uk
Model specific boards => Golf mk4 => Topic started by: AndyMitton on 26 November 2007, 09:12
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where do i start? i am seriously fed up with this car. worst i have ever owned. got VAGCOM on this weekend again, and only fault codes were the pressure drop (check DV) one, and sexondary air injection system leak or something? ill post that up inabit.
checked all the hoses...nothing leaking. spent a while doing it. cleaned TB, used VAGCOM for adaption...
i loked at the missfire counter: occasionaly, when i revved it high, and then let the revs drop, there was a missfire on cylinder 3...on about 15 runs, i got a total of 3..there were none previous to this. maybe my plugs are a bit crap. didnt have time to look tbh
running bank 115 showed the turbo bossting at around 1040mb where 960 was being requeted for...this seemed to be hiigher than the requested on revving
MAF...the readings on idle seemed to be ok, about 2.8 to 3.0...only seemed to reach 80-85 on a full rev up. probablt due to it being revved in neutral, not using much load
logged block 032...both values were zero...now im led to believe from a few forums this represents the front o2 sensor being broken? is this correct...and could this be the casue of all this crap?
still getting poor mpg, bad idling (felt like was running on 2 cylinders this morning) and shoddy performance...
got the above errors and bank 032 both reading zero? any ideas people before i burn this dam car.lol
Thanks, Andy
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Did you read block 032 before or after you cleared the fault codes? clearing fault codes resets both 032 % values to zero. Did you check this guide by the way? http://www.ross-tech.com/vag-com/cars/fuel-trim.html
What symptoms does your car have?
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read them after i reset the DTC's that would explain
its getting poor economy...performance is reallly hit and miss, judders like nothing on earth some mornings...the revs are almost pulsating; feels like a bad missfire...this stops after a few minutes of driving, and the idling is always lumpy, although idle speed is within limit
Thanks, Andy
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ok, and what have you tried/changed so far? (Sorry im playing catchup here, dont get to read the forum much these days!)
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no worries....thanks
i had a bad temp sensor and changed that...that was casuing a fuel trim error code (rich running)
17545 - Fuel Trim: Bank 1 (Add): System too Rich
P1137 - 35-10 - - - Intermittent
which has now gone...i cleaned the MAF with that isopropyl whatnot...cleaned the throttle body and re-aligned with VAGCOM...changed the diverter valve (which a standard bosch one...which is stil in working order)
checked hoses and they seem to fine...maybe ive missed something though. just frustrating the hell out of me...every so often the emissions light pops on (and stays on until reset)
the two DTCs i get are
2 Faults Found:
16795 - Secondary Air Injection System: Incorrect Flow Detected
P0411 - 35-00 - -
17705 - Pressure Drop between Turbo and Throttle Valve (check D.V.!)
P1297 - 35-10 - - - Intermittent
thanks!
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Have you checked the small braided vacuum hose that controls the DV? It's getting more and more common now that these go brittle and crack, and its a b!tch to spot because the braiding hides it!
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I had/have the same thing with my 1.8t, i changed the same, also changing the DV for a forge one, however i took the cover off the top of my engine to find the coil pack wiring going to the plug had little slices in them from (at some point) someone checking them with one of those volt meters that cut in to the cable, i taped them up and am looking to find out where the coil loom joins, have a look close at the wires, my miss cleared after a couple of mins as well, (more than likly the insolation exspanding with the heat and sealing..)
just somethin to check for....
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i have...i think its been replaced...its not braided the one on mine...(the on on top of the DV?)
its just a rubbed pipe that connects to a much stiffer rubber pipe...this SEEMS to be in order. may be worth changing..what size is it? or is there a part number pls?
saying that, the diverted valve does sound loud sometimes and un noticeable others...(a woosh not chattering)...
Thanks
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Have you checked the small braided vacuum hose that controls the DV? It's getting more and more common now that these go brittle and crack, and its a b!tch to spot because the braiding hides it!
just nipped out to the car (im at work) and 2 of the brown wires leading to the coils have their copper wire visable...
noone has checked the car since it was bought (with a Vmeter or anything like that for definate or been near the coils), so dunno if that could be it? thanks!...would be great if so!
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Have you checked the small braided vacuum hose that controls the DV? It's getting more and more common now that these go brittle and crack, and its a b!tch to spot because the braiding hides it!
I was advise about this when changing my dv too, and yes its a twit!!
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Have you checked the small braided vacuum hose that controls the DV? It's getting more and more common now that these go brittle and crack, and its a b!tch to spot because the braiding hides it!
just nipped out to the car (im at work) and 2 of the brown wires leading to the coils have their copper wire visable...
noone has checked the car since it was bought (with a Vmeter or anything like that for definate or been near the coils), so dunno if that could be it? thanks!...would be great if so!
Mate i honestly think on coil recall all the vw garages used those type of meters to test, what to do is cover the wire in black tape making then wd40 them.... i did and it worked, still get the odd miss but hey, im lookin for a replacement loom.
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Well I just learned something new myself. I was ignoring the secondary air injection fault because that shouldn't be able to affect the performance of the car. However, it seems that a faulty fuel pump relay can also throw up that error code! Worth checking out.
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ill look at that...is it the fuel pump relay or regulator? could this cause the symptons u think? Thanks...ill try the coils too thanks!!
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Fuel pump relay (J17), and yes if that is shafted, then it could be playing havoc with your fuel pump and giving you the grief you described.
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ahhh....wel sometimes it makes the "noise" when u open the door (that's it priming i guess) but doesnt always do this...maybe this is the answer!!??
as for the pressure drop between throttle and turbo...no closer to that? lol
or maybe somehow related?
Thanks mate!!
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minute crack in a hose somewhere possibly, as its intermittent though i'd worry about clearing the other fault up first.. it'll be easier to pick up on the symptoms then.
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The pressure drop between turbo and throttle body can indicate a problem with the DV OR can be due to the throttle body sooting up. This happens when you are running rich for some reason, ie faulty MAF / O2 / Temp sensor (the most common ones) or any other fuelling issues that cause you to run rich. If you've ruled out the DV then clean and readapt the throttle body. If you haven't sorted out the problem that causes the TB to soot up it will just happen again though - and pretty quickly.
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i think the TB sooted up due to me having a faulty temperature gauge, causing rich running of the car.
it feels like a plugs problem with the car idling bad to be honest
should the fuel pump relay (well the fuel pump priming) be heard everytime the driver's door is opened after the car has been stood locked for a while?
Thanks, Andy
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i THINK I hear mine priming every time I open the door. Maybe not if I've just nipped into a shop and straight back out but even then I'm sure I can hear it....... I'll keep a closer ear to it for the next couple of days.
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When you open the door is quite a distinctive hummmm noise, you will know if you hear it or not.
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I know what it sounds like, Its just I've never paid much attention to when it happens or not! The more I think about the more I'm sure it happens every time you open the drivers door. (but it only happens once before starting ie if you open the door twice before you start the engine the pump will only prime once)
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That's what i thought...it only does it once in a while. like 1 morning out of 7.
does the fuel pump relay power anything else vital? i.e. any sensors?
Thanks, Andy
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don't know but it should definately buzz every morning. Sounds like you've found a strong contender there
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ok...ill investigate that. im thinking there maybe a leak or damaged valve in the secondary air injection system. been reading up on this a lot. seems to be a very common thing, with a wide range of solutions....anyone any experiences of getting this fixes?? Thanks, Andy
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A relay is cheap and easy to fix, If it isn't priming every time you open the door then to be honest I think you have found your problem.
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=1995162 is a link to some good info on SAIS issues. I had a problem where when running it was very noisy, it turned out that the rivets holding the SAIS pump together had rusted out and the casing had opened up, this was fixed by the garage with some replacement bolts. That said I had no fault codes for this - it was just noisy! There was no effect on performace. A genuine SAIS problem should not affect performance, the fuel pump thing obviously will.
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thanks for that mate
anyone know of any vag com checks for relay operation? are they listed in those downloadable manuals or anything like that?
also, has anyone experienced problems with their fuel pump relay..anyone expreieced what i'm getting?
Cheers!
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I drop my car off at the station in the morning and it buzzes in the morning. (07:00)
And it buzzes again in the afternoon (17:00)
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Just a further thought.... are you having any problems with your central locking not working properly or courtesy lights not coming on when they should? The reason I ask is that if you are having any problems with these then it could be your door switch thats at fault and consequently not telling the pump to start priming.
If these are working fine then its probably your relay. Unfortunately I don't know any way of testing it with Vag Com - all I know is how to read fault codes!
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When you open the door is quite a distinctive hummmm noise, you will know if you hear it or not.
so is that hummmm noise suppose to be there cuz like u said every time i open my door i can hear it ..... but i hvnt got any error code showing up .....
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Just a further thought.... are you having any problems with your central locking not working properly or courtesy lights not coming on when they should? The reason I ask is that if you are having any problems with these then it could be your door switch thats at fault and consequently not telling the pump to start priming.
If these are working fine then its probably your relay. Unfortunately I don't know any way of testing it with Vag Com - all I know is how to read fault codes!
that's a thought...my central locking is a bit poo...as to whether that's due to the fob/its battery i dont know
the courtesy lights are always fine tho
thanks for that one...ill look it up mate!
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When you open the door is quite a distinctive hummmm noise, you will know if you hear it or not.
so is that hummmm noise suppose to be there cuz like u said every time i open my door i can hear it ..... but i hvnt got any error code showing up .....
Thats normal mate, thats what should happen!
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anyone know the correct part number/cost for the fuel pump relay? looked on GSF and they list one for like 7 quid and another for 30odd quid
Thanks, Andy
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well, here we are again.
had a look on VAGCOM after messing about with my car...same codes as ive had before (fuel trim rich, secondary air leak, pressure drop between turbo and throttle...and a low signal to MAF fault...this may have been that i unplugged the MAF (cant remember if i unplugged the MAF before or after i reset the codes last time...) anyways...
cleaned the throttle body so its gleaming and re-aligned it...all seemed ok...much much smoother idling now
problem is, that its still giving crap fuel economy and the emissions light is bak on....i suspect i will recieve the same error codes from VAGCOM when i plug in tonight....has anyone any light to shed? all the hoses seem to be in good order. fed up...wish i still had my rover!!
Thanks, Andy
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...anyone...?
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So the fuel pump relay didn't make a difference then? :sad:Does it at least prime every time you open the door now?
I'll need to have a think......
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primes most time, yea. but sometimes ther's cars and that driving by so dont hear when i open the door...if it wansn't priming would the effects not be a lot worse?
its been pulling really well recently actually, just the emissions light is on again.
thinking MAF could be on its way out, but not too sure really. cleaning the throttle body out had made a difference though to be fair. just sometimes feels slow n sometimes its brilliant.
Thanks, Andy
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Its very very frustrating when this happens. I'm starting to think its your O2 sensor. MAF problems generally cause lean running not rich whereas generally O2 probs cause rich running. It would give you exactly the symptoms you describe too. When my MAF went I wasn't sure if it was the problem or not so when I went to the VW parts dept they agreed that they would take it back if it didn't solve my problem as long as I brought it back in a couple of days. Maybe yours will too? Or do you know anyone nearby with a 1.8T (or a 2.0 - same part no iirc) that you could do a swap with?
So what exactly have you done so far to address this problem?
Just a final (and probably stupid) thought but hows your oil level? If there is too much in there it will cause an emissions problem and will more than likely result in poor performance.
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deffo not too much oil. thanks though
the local VW dealers, to be named and shamed are Richard Alexander who are terrible! (wakefield)
so i won't b going there. well ill get it on my VAG COM tonight or tommorrow, and you can address bank 031/032 to check for the o2 sensors functioning
you're right, i MAF would cause lean running! Thanks!
i get a secondary air injection fault, so maybe a pipe's split; maybe i've not looked hard enough?
cleaned throttle body, new temp sensor, checked most hoses, throttle body alignment, new plugs (gapped at 28 thou), new diverter valve (other one was sha**ed)
Thanks mate, Andy
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Can you hear the secondary air injection pump? When you start her from cold (ie first start of the day) its quite a distinctive noise, especially with the bonnet open. Sort of sounds like a hoover. It should cut out after about 100 seconds and will coincide with your revs dropping. The SAIS only operates with a cold engine for a very short period of time so should not be causing any performace issues.
Given topher's post and you not hearing the pump priming I would be focusing on that. If the pump isn't priming (or operating at all) I think its possible that the engine would 'suck' the fuel out of the tank but would suffer from fuel starvation under high load or when going up hills etc etc. I could also be talking s**t here.
Let us know how you get on with the vag com results.....