GolfGTIforum.co.uk
Model specific boards => Golf mk5 => Topic started by: speedynz on 18 November 2007, 05:41
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Just back from a 100 mile cross country dice with my mate and his Megane F1.
It was a bank holiday here so we set off at 6.45am and headed over the hills outside our local city. The roads were a mix of tight, bumpy off camber nightmares and very fast flowing B roads, they were virtually deserted so we weren't upsetting anyone. This was the hardest I had driven my Edition 30 and it was 10/10ths some of the time, four wheel drifts, plough on understeer, little lift off oversteer moments, furious scrabbling for traction out of the tight uphill bends and teeth clenching stuff through the 125+mph sweepers.
The Golf was brilliant, confidence inspiring, very assured and never outgunned but I would forget a big horsepower remap, this thing would benefit far more from a lsd to aid traction and quell understeer. It also rolled a little too much in tight bends and grounded the solid front spoiler much more than I would have liked (if it keeps on doing this I'll end up selling it as a lightweight RS version!), the F1 has a much lower front spoiler but it never touched the ground once and from behind it looked to have absolutely zero roll through any corner. The 'nuggety' round town ride of my Ed 30 finally came into its own and allowed faster cornering than in the standard GTI but the Megane was a match for my Golf everywhere, a little slower in a straight line but a bit quicker through the tight stuff, the F1's wide track, low roll angles and big tyres (235's) showing it a little advantage. My friend is a very good, agressive driver so it would have been intresting to swap cars :shocked: and see what happened.
The only damage for the day was when a huge errant Magpie didn't relate to my closing speed and stuffed itself through my front grille, smashing both bird and grille.
I don't think that much would have lived with us on these roads, except an Exige, Cayman or WRX/EVO. But none of those has the same day to day liveability.
Bloody good cars these Edition 30's but don't get too c*cky if you come across a well driven Megane F1.
And if the road is twisty and the Megane has 'R26' written on it then you might as well give up there and then. You won't see which way it went.
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:huh: I took one of these out yesterday!! Wasnt really a match to be honest, he simply fell behind a few car lengths and never really recovered. Until the 100 mark where he just got left further and further behind. Would have been nice to try him on the twistys... but I dont think he would have been able to keep up.. not with me and the old Haldex having stuck up a good understanding over the last few weeks!
Im suprised your Ed30 didnt give it more of a run... i know the r26's are quick but I would have thought the superior chassis of the golf would have meant it tackled the corners a little better. Although I guess you can appreciate that the Megane is definately the more race focused car.. So suffers on worse roads.
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i dont think theres any doubting the ability of the R26 , I very nearly bought one too.
At 10/10ths the LSD makes all the diff , and the ED30 with a remap and LSD would have been :laugh:
Great car , but for many reasons the Golf is a better day to day choice.
Gotta love them though , along with the Focus ST, we are spoilt for choice :smiley:
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:huh: I took one of these out yesterday!! Wasnt really a match to be honest, he simply fell behind a few car lengths and never really recovered. Until the 100 mark where he just got left further and further behind. Would have been nice to try him on the twistys... but I dont think he would have been able to keep up.. not with me and the old Haldex having stuck up a good understanding over the last few weeks!
Im suprised your Ed30 didnt give it more of a run... i know the r26's are quick but I would have thought the superior chassis of the golf would have meant it tackled the corners a little better. Although I guess you can appreciate that the Megane is definately the more race focused car.. So suffers on worse roads.
The Golf doesn't have a superior chassis to the R26 Megane, it's the other way round and very clear. Yes, the Ed 30 is quicker in a straight line but as I said before an R26 would (and does) leave an Edition 30 for dead on a twisty road and an Edition 30 would leave an R32 for dead on the same road, quite simply with all that weight the R32 couldn't change direction quickly enough. The 250kg (a quarter of a ton!) advantage that the Edition 30 has over the R32 far outweighs the traction advantage of the 4 wheel drive system.
What the MK5 Golf does have over the feisty Renault is superior ownership in day to day living - better residuals, economy, driving enviroment, comfort and class.
But a better chassis - no.
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I hear what you are saying about the suspension and the benefits of and LSD..but I only have one word that sorts out the Megane...........
DSG
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:huh: I took one of these out yesterday!! Wasnt really a match to be honest, he simply fell behind a few car lengths and never really recovered. Until the 100 mark where he just got left further and further behind. Would have been nice to try him on the twistys... but I dont think he would have been able to keep up.. not with me and the old Haldex having stuck up a good understanding over the last few weeks!
Im suprised your Ed30 didnt give it more of a run... i know the r26's are quick but I would have thought the superior chassis of the golf would have meant it tackled the corners a little better. Although I guess you can appreciate that the Megane is definately the more race focused car.. So suffers on worse roads.
The Golf doesn't have a superior chassis to the R26 Megane, it's the other way round and very clear. Yes, the Ed 30 is quicker in a straight line but as I said before an R26 would (and does) leave an Edition 30 for dead on a twisty road and an Edition 30 would leave an R32 for dead on the same road, quite simply with all that weight the R32 couldn't change direction quickly enough. The 250kg (a quarter of a ton!) advantage that the Edition 30 has over the R32 far outweighs the traction advantage of the 4 wheel drive system.
What the MK5 Golf does have over the feisty Renault is superior ownership in day to day living - better residuals, economy, driving enviroment, comfort and class.
But a better chassis - no.
I beg to differ. I have owned a megane previously and did not feel the chassis was anything special. The Golf's is far superior in my opinion, the only difference with the megane is that the suspension is so damn firm. Also if you think that a r32 cant change direction quickly enough then you are very mistaken (Unless you are doing a 3 point turn). As i said before i came up against the 225 and pulled 2-3 lengths ahead until about 100 after which the gap just grew and grew. The traction on the r32 is unbelieveable.. trust me! The way it moves the power round to make sure it all goes down on the road is nothing short of remarkable. There is simply no way that the megane would kick its a$$. The twistys are where the R32 really does kick some.. just read the sticky at the top of the page and some posts from people who have owned both...
And as for not seeing which way it went... i very much doubt that would happen to a good driver be it in a Ed30 or R32. Maybe some advance driving lessons are in order for chirstmas?? no offence :rolleyes:
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I hear what you are saying about the suspension and the benefits of and LSD..but I only have one word that sorts out the Megane...........
DSG
:grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin:
Thats right Hurdy... you tell him.. :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil:
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R32UK,
I understand your love of R32's and they are classy, capable and quick but that lovely V6 and 4 wheel drive gubbins make it the heaviest hot hatch you can buy and that's what blunts its agility. They are magic on fast flowing roads but too lardy to shine on the tight stuff. I've driven them and although the speed was deceptive because of the cultured delivery but they were still only 'quick' rather than scintillating.
It's common knowledge that the Edition 30 puts out close to 250bhp and 250 lbs ft of torque and that it weighs a quarter of a ton less than the R32 so the real power to weight ratios are 180 bhp/ton Ed 30 versus 155 bhp/ton for the R32. Torque to weight figures are even more loaded in the Ed 30's favour.
Back to the R26.
A quote from Autocar when they tested every hot hatch on road and track including Golf GTI, Audi S3, R32 and Megane.
"It's a serious piece of kit the R26, the sheer explosiveness of its performance might put unsuspecting punters off. But on the roads we drove it on and at the high speeds we drove it the R26 obliterated the opposition. We'd been wondering for a few days which car would be quicker across ground but when the time came the R26 just blew every other car into the undergrowth, Audi S3 included. It did so because it was that bit more responsive out of corners, sharper when commited to them, more accelerative down the straights and more agile than any of them anywhere"
Johnathan Palmer was present and stated "Anyone who wants to build a hot hatch should try this R26, it's amazing what a limited slip differential can do for a car. Awesome"
The test included 14 hot hatches, the R32 didn't make it into the best 7 cars cut. The GTI made the cut but not the top three, it was however chosen as the best all round hot hatch (if not the absolute best ground coverer).
R32UK, if you doubt the commitment to which my Edition 30 was driven you should note that the underneath of the front spoiler is now a horrifying sight and I put more wear on my tyres in that 100 mile run than in the preceding 3000 miles.
However, I would love advanced driving lessons for Christmas, it's a very generous offer, I'll PM you my address and look forward to recieving the voucher.
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Probably have to agree with you speedynz re overall speed and the handling, if all the reviews of the Megane I have read from the UK and Australia/NZ are correct.
The real issues with Megane however seem to be built quality, reliability and resale value.
Recommend inland South Island roads if you have a spare day or two - virtually zero traffic and any type of road you could wish for. A radar detector would be handy though....
Perhaps you could remind the UK lads that petrol is only about 65p per litre here as well, although we don't earn as much...
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Probably have to agree with you speedynz re overall speed and the handling, if all the reviews of the Megane I have read from the UK and Australia/NZ are correct.
The real issues with Megane however seem to be built quality, reliability and resale value.
Recommend inland South Island roads if you have a spare day or two - virtually zero traffic and any type of road you could wish for. A radar detector would be handy though....
Perhaps you could remind the UK lads that petrol is only about 65p per litre here as well, although we don't earn as much...
Ronnie,
Where are you?
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What the MK5 Golf does have over the feisty Renault is superior ownership in day to day living - better residuals, economy, driving enviroment, comfort and class.
I think this is the point. All cars are compromises, and I'm not sure there's any point to feeling bad that car X outdoes car Y in any one measure, since we all make our own decisions about what we want out of a car, and that informs our eventual choice.
I can't think of many cars I'd rather be in on a lovely twisty b-road with the sun shining than a Lotus elise or some other 'massless' car with so little weight that it just gobbles up the corners like a pig gobbles up acorns. Unfortunately, a lotus elise comes with lots of downsides too.
I didn't spare more than 5 seconds ruling out the renault, because:
a) It's as ugly as f***
b) Its price will drop like a stone
c) It's french. (just kidding. J'adore les grenouilles.)
Seriously, if the only thing it outdoes the golf on is on the limit driving.. well I want the gti to be damned good to drive, effortless through town, motorway and b-road, classy for me and my passengers, practical and not too 'in yer face'...and it delivers that.. I don't care that it can be outrun by this or by that.
So there :grin:
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I will agree with that AndyB. Having owned a megane previously it spent alot alot of time in the workshop so I know that them cars have serious issues.
I just find it difficult to understand that a R26 would leave an ed30 behind?? I have heard so much about how they put out more power than the 230ps stated. (Come on ED30 boys!!! some back up here!!)
As for leaving the R32 I fail to find that true too.. esp after my recent encounter. Any car putting out more that 200bhp through the front wheels is going to struggle for grip.. its a fact. This will be highlighted no more so than in tight corners where the car wil have to accelerate hard with the wheels not in a straight line.
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I will agree with that AndyB. Having owned a megane previously it spent alot alot of time in the workshop so I know that them cars have serious issues.
I just find it difficult to understand that a R26 would leave an ed30 behind?? I have heard so much about how they put out more power than the 230ps stated. (Come on ED30 boys!!! some back up here!!)
As for leaving the R32 I fail to find that true too.. esp after my recent encounter. Any car putting out more that 200bhp through the front wheels is going to struggle for grip.. its a fact. This will be highlighted no more so than in tight corners where the car wil have to accelerate hard with the wheels not in a straight line.
R26 has LSD
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I will agree with that AndyB. Having owned a megane previously it spent alot alot of time in the workshop so I know that them cars have serious issues.
I just find it difficult to understand that a R26 would leave an ed30 behind?? I have heard so much about how they put out more power than the 230ps stated. (Come on ED30 boys!!! some back up here!!)
As for leaving the R32 I fail to find that true too.. esp after my recent encounter. Any car putting out more that 200bhp through the front wheels is going to struggle for grip.. its a fact. This will be highlighted no more so than in tight corners where the car wil have to accelerate hard with the wheels not in a straight line.
Well Speedy tested a standard GTI against the Megane.. I think it would be a different proposition vs a Ed30 with DSG. However, given the LSD and harder suspension on the Megane, I think it would pip the Ed30 in terms of laptimes... but only by a very small margin - from the various articles I have read. But who wants to own a cr8ppy Renault because it's a second faster round a track. I'll just cheaply Revo or Oettinger my Ed30, stick in an LSD and blow the Megane into the weeds if I want... And before anyone says the Megane driver can do the same, the only thing I found with respects to tuning one of these was this http://www.k-tecracing.com/show_product.asp?id=2358 wow-wee, a 30hp increase for just under £500 :rolleyes: Giveme Revo anyday and 60-70bhp+ :drool:
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Then again, maybe the Megane owner could have a trump card up his sleeve and plaster it with those Japanese/Korean stickers to give it 1000+bhp
:grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin:
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I've seen a few of these megane r26 about and from a distance you can't make out whether they are a normal megane or the r26! Don't look as classy as the gti and not as much of an all rounder as the gti is - which is ultimately what hot hatches are all about, aren't they?
Then again, maybe the Megane owner could have a trump card up his sleeve and plaster it with those Japanese/Korean stickers to give it 1000+bhp
:grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin:
Forget korean stickers, these cars can come with FRENCH stickers at a no cost option!!! Maybe if you don't have the stickers on, the power goes down from 230bhp to 130bhp or something. Then we'll see who is quicker!! :grin:
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I will agree with that AndyB. Having owned a megane previously it spent alot alot of time in the workshop so I know that them cars have serious issues.
I just find it difficult to understand that a R26 would leave an ed30 behind?? I have heard so much about how they put out more power than the 230ps stated. (Come on ED30 boys!!! some back up here!!)
As for leaving the R32 I fail to find that true too.. esp after my recent encounter. Any car putting out more that 200bhp through the front wheels is going to struggle for grip.. its a fact. This will be highlighted no more so than in tight corners where the car wil have to accelerate hard with the wheels not in a straight line.
still doesnt put power down through 4 wheels
R26 has LSD
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I wrote as fair and balanced a thread as I could concerning these two cars. I wrote it as I saw it. I didn't write it on the basis of cost price, residual values, build quality or subjective aesthetic appeal. It was an objective assesment of these two cars ground covering abilities across sinuous country roads.
It wasn't a brief traffic light thrash, a max speed run on an autobahn or an ownership statement on how these cars behave on the daily commute. It was 100 miles of very fast country road driving in two of the most accomplished cars for the money.
I also (mainly) left aside subjective analysis of their respective handling and power delivery characteristics in order to keep the thread simple.
The Megane may not be everyone's taste (no one's on here unsuprisingly) but there is no denying its ability to cover ground quickly.
These are cars that are seperated by 10ths on a race track so it's no suprise to find that 'figuratively' the are very closely matched on the road.
Illyun: I was in an Edition 30.
Andy B: Nice post about the Elise.
Hurdy: DSG versus manual, no contest :wink:
R32UK: Your well documented traction benefits due to 4 wheel drive cannot be denied, nor can the drawbacks of the excessive weight this system imparts. If I stuck a quarter of a ton of lead on my car it would have a huge detrimental effect and that is exactly what has happened to the R32. It's a great car, a really lovely one, but it weighs an awful lot.
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Glad you recognise the superiority of......
DSG....DSG....DSG....
err....sorry...couldn't resist :embarassed: :wink:
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What benefit's that then :huh:
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err,
faster.
quicker gearchanges.
No missed gearchanges.
Let's you concentrate on the road as you're not constantly thinking about the gearchanges for the road ahead and so flows better.
Two hands on the wheel at all times and so it is safer.
Inspires confidence.
No fear of trashing the clutch/gearbox/engine by selecting the wrong gear.
You can always have one foot for braking and one for accelleration and so can react faster for both and don't have to mess about with heel/toeing which is a pain (but great when you get it right :wink:)
Launch control feature.
Lets you use it as both a manual or an auto for the best of both worlds
and for the boring bits:-
Better fuel consumption (although minimal)...apart from my 9.5mpg thread :embarassed:
Better round town in the awful traffic jams we get over here in the UK :sick:
Reversing up a steep incline doesn't fcuk your clutch up (I live on a city with hills everywhere!)
And the benefit of manual over DSG is?
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I wrote as fair and balanced a thread as I could concerning these two cars. I wrote it as I saw it. I didn't write it on the basis of cost price, residual values, build quality or subjective aesthetic appeal. It was an objective assesment of these two cars ground covering abilities across sinuous country roads.
It wasn't a brief traffic light thrash, a max speed run on an autobahn or an ownership statement on how these cars behave on the daily commute. It was 100 miles of very fast country road driving in two of the most accomplished cars for the money.
I also (mainly) left aside subjective analysis of their respective handling and power delivery characteristics in order to keep the thread simple.
The Megane may not be everyone's taste (no one's on here unsuprisingly) but there is no denying its ability to cover ground quickly.
These are cars that are seperated by 10ths on a race track so it's no suprise to find that 'figuratively' the are very closely matched on the road.
Illyun: I was in an Edition 30.
Andy B: Nice post about the Elise.
Hurdy: DSG versus manual, no contest :wink:
R32UK: Your well documented traction benefits due to 4 wheel drive cannot be denied, nor can the drawbacks of the excessive weight this system imparts. If I stuck a quarter of a ton of lead on my car it would have a huge detrimental effect and that is exactly what has happened to the R32. It's a great car, a really lovely one, but it weighs an awful lot.
FAir play... but you do realise the R32 has 50bhp more than the std golf! (on paper) And gets it down really well in any weather. No wheel spin, or understeer... yes a little more weight but overall a better bhp/tonne ratio. So now imagine your golf being able to get nearly all its power down all of the time. Just a thought..
-
err,
faster.
quicker gearchanges.
No missed gearchanges.
Let's you concentrate on the road as you're not constantly thinking about the gearchanges for the road ahead and so flows better.
Two hands on the wheel at all times and so it is safer.
Inspires confidence.
No fear of trashing the clutch/gearbox/engine by selecting the wrong gear.
You can always have one foot for braking and one for accelleration and so can react faster for both and don't have to mess about with heel/toeing which is a pain (but great when you get it right :wink:)
Launch control feature.
Lets you use it as both a manual or an auto for the best of both worlds
and for the boring bits:-
Better fuel consumption (although minimal)...apart from my 9.5mpg thread :embarassed:
Better round town in the awful traffic jams we get over here in the UK :sick:
Reversing up a steep incline doesn't fcuk your clutch up (I live on a city with hills everywhere!)
And the benefit of manual over DSG is?
Hmmm let me think.
1. It just feels normal
2. Something to keep your left leg from being skinnier than your right one.
3. Perfect starts everytime, if you know how.
4. Skip gears when and if its required.
5. Better economy (yes this is true simply because i say so!! and the fact that you can read the road ahead better than the car can)
6. Dont have to waste time explaining to people that its manual.. when you really know it isnt
7. no jerkiness below 10mph
8. no problems parking.
9. No need to switch between modes
10. No future problems.. or paddel problems
i got more if you want :grin:
-
err,
faster.
quicker gearchanges.
No missed gearchanges.
Let's you concentrate on the road as you're not constantly thinking about the gearchanges for the road ahead and so flows better.
Two hands on the wheel at all times and so it is safer.
Inspires confidence.
No fear of trashing the clutch/gearbox/engine by selecting the wrong gear.
You can always have one foot for braking and one for accelleration and so can react faster for both and don't have to mess about with heel/toeing which is a pain (but great when you get it right :wink:)
Launch control feature.
Lets you use it as both a manual or an auto for the best of both worlds
and for the boring bits:-
Better fuel consumption (although minimal)...apart from my 9.5mpg thread :embarassed:
Better round town in the awful traffic jams we get over here in the UK :sick:
Reversing up a steep incline doesn't fcuk your clutch up (I live on a city with hills everywhere!)
And the benefit of manual over DSG is?
Hmmm let me think.
1. It just feels normal
2. Something to keep your left leg from being skinnier than your right one.
3. Perfect starts everytime, if you know how.
4. Skip gears when and if its required.
5. Better economy (yes this is true simply because i say so!! and the fact that you can read the road ahead better than the car can)
6. Dont have to waste time explaining to people that its manual.. when you really know it isnt
7. no jerkiness below 10mph
8. no problems parking.
9. No need to switch between modes
10. No future problems.. or paddel problems
i got more if you want :grin:
preach, my brother :smiley:
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Err,
It's faster (despite VW's claims)
It's one of the best manual changes in any hot hatch and a delight to use,
It's always up to the the driver what gear you are in, not the intuition of a computer,
The manual never misses a gear - sometimes DSG doesn't respond at all, sometimes it chooses the wrong gear,
You always, always know which gear you are in,
It doesn't break,
It's cheaper (much),
It doesn't pause then lurch on initial take off,
Launch control is always engaged
You have a choice to heel and toe (and the pedals are absolutely perfect for this)
It's tactile, far more engaging and a wonderfully integral part of the car/driver interface,
It's a real gearbox and not two tiny, tappy switches hidden somewhere between the steering wheel and control stalks,
If you've got fingers bigger than a childs you don't have to engage main beam and the rear wiper to fit the gear lever,
Was that two taps? or three? Oh noooooooooooo!
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I wrote as fair and balanced a thread as I could concerning these two cars. I wrote it as I saw it. I didn't write it on the basis of cost price, residual values, build quality or subjective aesthetic appeal. It was an objective assesment of these two cars ground covering abilities across sinuous country roads.
It wasn't a brief traffic light thrash, a max speed run on an autobahn or an ownership statement on how these cars behave on the daily commute. It was 100 miles of very fast country road driving in two of the most accomplished cars for the money.
I also (mainly) left aside subjective analysis of their respective handling and power delivery characteristics in order to keep the thread simple.
The Megane may not be everyone's taste (no one's on here unsuprisingly) but there is no denying its ability to cover ground quickly.
These are cars that are seperated by 10ths on a race track so it's no suprise to find that 'figuratively' the are very closely matched on the road.
Illyun: I was in an Edition 30.
Andy B: Nice post about the Elise.
Hurdy: DSG versus manual, no contest :wink:
R32UK: Your well documented traction benefits due to 4 wheel drive cannot be denied, nor can the drawbacks of the excessive weight this system imparts. If I stuck a quarter of a ton of lead on my car it would have a huge detrimental effect and that is exactly what has happened to the R32. It's a great car, a really lovely one, but it weighs an awful lot.
FAir play... but you do realise the R32 has 50bhp more than the std golf! (on paper) And gets it down really well in any weather. No wheel spin, or understeer... yes a little more weight but overall a better bhp/tonne ratio. So now imagine your golf being able to get nearly all its power down all of the time. Just a thought..
I said it earler R32UK, it's not "a little more weight" it' a quarter of a ton for christ sake, and the 'real' BHP/ton ratio of an Edition 30 is 180/ton and for the R32 it's 155/ton. My car will sit still, spin its wheels and go nowhere on an uphill wet standing start and your R32 would just rocket away but there are drawbacks to all that weight, we just have to be open about our respective cars benefits and disadvantages.
-
err,
faster.
quicker gearchanges.
No missed gearchanges.
Let's you concentrate on the road as you're not constantly thinking about the gearchanges for the road ahead and so flows better.
Two hands on the wheel at all times and so it is safer.
Inspires confidence.
No fear of trashing the clutch/gearbox/engine by selecting the wrong gear.
You can always have one foot for braking and one for accelleration and so can react faster for both and don't have to mess about with heel/toeing which is a pain (but great when you get it right :wink:)
Launch control feature.
Lets you use it as both a manual or an auto for the best of both worlds
and for the boring bits:-
Better fuel consumption (although minimal)...apart from my 9.5mpg thread :embarassed:
Better round town in the awful traffic jams we get over here in the UK :sick:
Reversing up a steep incline doesn't fcuk your clutch up (I live on a city with hills everywhere!)
And the benefit of manual over DSG is?
Hmmm let me think.
1. It just feels normal
2. Something to keep your left leg from being skinnier than your right one.
3. Perfect starts everytime, if you know how.
4. Skip gears when and if its required.
5. Better economy (yes this is true simply because i say so!! and the fact that you can read the road ahead better than the car can)
6. Dont have to waste time explaining to people that its manual.. when you really know it isnt
7. no jerkiness below 10mph
8. no problems parking.
9. No need to switch between modes
10. No future problems.. or paddel problems
i got more if you want :grin:
Alleylooyah!!!
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Launch control is alwaysengaged
????
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You can always have one foot for braking and one for accelleration and so can react faster for both and don't have to mess about with heel/toeing which is a pain (but great when you get it right :wink:)
I only use my right foot for both the accelerator and braking... :undecided:
My left foot is to heavy for anything except resting and a clutch if driving a manual... :rolleyes:
-
err,
faster.
quicker gearchanges.
No missed gearchanges.
Let's you concentrate on the road as you're not constantly thinking about the gearchanges for the road ahead and so flows better.
Two hands on the wheel at all times and so it is safer.
Inspires confidence.
No fear of trashing the clutch/gearbox/engine by selecting the wrong gear.
You can always have one foot for braking and one for accelleration and so can react faster for both and don't have to mess about with heel/toeing which is a pain (but great when you get it right :wink:)
Launch control feature.
Lets you use it as both a manual or an auto for the best of both worlds
and for the boring bits:-
Better fuel consumption (although minimal)...apart from my 9.5mpg thread :embarassed:
Better round town in the awful traffic jams we get over here in the UK :sick:
Reversing up a steep incline doesn't fcuk your clutch up (I live on a city with hills everywhere!)
And the benefit of manual over DSG is?
Hmmm let me think.
1. It just feels normal
2. Something to keep your left leg from being skinnier than your right one.
3. Perfect starts everytime, if you know how.
4. Skip gears when and if its required.
5. Better economy (yes this is true simply because i say so!! and the fact that you can read the road ahead better than the car can)
6. Dont have to waste time explaining to people that its manual.. when you really know it isnt
7. no jerkiness below 10mph
8. no problems parking.
9. No need to switch between modes
10. No future problems.. or paddel problems
i got more if you want :grin:
You forgot torque limitation when remapping :cry:
-
err,
faster.
quicker gearchanges.
No missed gearchanges.
Let's you concentrate on the road as you're not constantly thinking about the gearchanges for the road ahead and so flows better.
Two hands on the wheel at all times and so it is safer.
Inspires confidence.
No fear of trashing the clutch/gearbox/engine by selecting the wrong gear.
You can always have one foot for braking and one for accelleration and so can react faster for both and don't have to mess about with heel/toeing which is a pain (but great when you get it right :wink:)
Launch control feature.
Lets you use it as both a manual or an auto for the best of both worlds
and for the boring bits:-
Better fuel consumption (although minimal)...apart from my 9.5mpg thread :embarassed:
Better round town in the awful traffic jams we get over here in the UK :sick:
Reversing up a steep incline doesn't fcuk your clutch up (I live on a city with hills everywhere!)
And the benefit of manual over DSG is?
Hmmm let me think.
1. It just feels normal
2. Something to keep your left leg from being skinnier than your right one.
3. Perfect starts everytime, if you know how.
4. Skip gears when and if its required.
5. Better economy (yes this is true simply because i say so!! and the fact that you can read the road ahead better than the car can)
6. Dont have to waste time explaining to people that its manual.. when you really know it isnt
7. no jerkiness below 10mph
8. no problems parking.
9. No need to switch between modes
10. No future problems.. or paddel problems
i got more if you want :grin:
You forgot torque limitation when remapping :cry:
Your not supposed to mention that one :wink:
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R32UK reply.
Hmmm let me think.
1. It just feels normal - so does a dsg!
2. Something to keep your left leg from being skinnier than your right one. - that's why I left foot brake!
3. Perfect starts everytime, if you know how.- ONLY if you know how!
4. Skip gears when and if its required. Why would you want to skip gears when accellerating? The DSG can skip gears going down - never heard of kickdown :rolleyes:
5. Better economy (yes this is true simply because i say so!! and the fact that you can read the road ahead better than the car can) - If you say so it must be right!
6. Dont have to waste time explaining to people that its manual.. when you really know it isnt - No I boast that it is a DSG - twin clutch manual - without an archaic clutch pedal and just happens to have auto modes :wink:
7. no jerkiness below 10mph - Neither has mine. Ive seen plenty of kangarooing manuals, usually when some numpty doesn't give it enough gas or gets the clutch wrong :rolleyes:
8. no problems parking. - Same here
9. No need to switch between modes - only EVERY gear! :rolleyes:
10. No future problems.. or paddel problems - only worn clutches, shagged gearboxes, Over revved engines from numpties selecting 2nd gear on motorways etc :lipsrsealed:
i got more if you want - For every one you have....I have more :wink:
Speedynz reply
It's faster (despite VW's claims) - ONLY if you power shift and long term that is just going to knacker the car. A DSG can be used fully more of the time and the power is easier to access
It's one of the best manual changes in any hot hatch and a delight to use - I can't dispute that :cool:
It's always up to the the driver what gear you are in, not the intuition of a computer, Can't dispute that either, although the DSG as you know does have a manual mode and when you combine that with the faster change times is very satifying too
The manual never misses a gear - sometimes DSG doesn't respond at all, sometimes it chooses the wrong gear, - I have heard of this, but I haven't had it yet in over 5000 miles. The manual may never miss a gear, but I bet you have :undecided:
You always, always know which gear you are in, - I don't need to know what gear I am in, I know by the rev counter, the engine pull and the sound of the engine if I am in the right gear - don't you?
It doesn't break, - bit of a broad comment this one. Maybe the DSG has some issues as it is a modern, complicated, state of the art piece of engineering - unlike the antiquated engineering of a manual gearbox :smug:
It's cheaper (much), - yes, but you have to pay for perfection :wink:
It doesn't pause then lurch on initial take off, - neither does mine! I suppose manual gearboxes or more precisely their users, never fluff takeoffs or stall on take off? :undecided:
Launch control is always engaged - I know where you are coming from with this one and I guess you are right as long as you select the traction control off too :cool:
You have a choice to heel and toe (and the pedals are absolutely perfect for this) - ok, got me on this one :embarassed:
It's tactile, far more engaging and a wonderfully integral part of the car/driver interface, - agreed, so is the DSG if you use it as a manual (which I do regularly)
It's a real gearbox and not two tiny, tappy switches hidden somewhere between the steering wheel and control stalks, - the DSG is TWO gearboxes spliced together in perfect harmony :smug:
If you've got fingers bigger than a childs you don't have to engage main beam and the rear wiper to fit the gear lever, OKAY, so I have hit the main beam once before instead of the down shift paddle :embarassed: but I'm used to it now :cool:
Was that two taps? or three? Oh noooooooooooo! - was that third or first...oh my poor manual gearbox!
I suppose we could bat on like this ad infinitum. I guess the only thing we can agree on is that we differ in our choice of preferred gearbox, which I respect and wouldn't have it any other way as it makes for great threads like this :cool:
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60% of Audi R8 are sold with manual gearbox...
but this is meaningless discussion anyway
I chose manual because I am used to them, and I did not want another computer doing things for me.
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In my opinion. Manual sells the least in South Africa. The Dsg box is sooooo smooth and perfect. Our only reason for not getting it is cos its my moms car and she hates automatic.
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DSG is a manual with an auto function :wink:
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You can get uprated parts for the DSG box though... and then skys the limit as far as remapping and torque is concerned... but its such a new area that at the moment only one company I know of sells the parts and is brave enough to mess about with the DSG software. But it costs a lot because its so new.
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DSG is a manual with an auto function :wink:
Ha ha!! Good post!! I must say when i first heard about the dsg i was convinced it was the future and that i would have to get it. Its only when I got to the showroom and found out it was a £1000 or so extra that i became a little hesitant. Anyway.. on the test drive it seemed to change gears too soon for me, and I found in to be a little eager to do things also. Which I guess is quite good if your driving style is always the same, but i often find my driving reflects my mood, which can change quite a few times within a journey. Anyway back to my DSG test.. the actual change in gear is flawless and you just cant knock a change that swift, with no jerk. It was almost as if your just in one gear... but i just found it a little problematic when it came to putting your foot down. Which do i used the paddels?? or the stick?? Why have the paddels gone when i go round a corner and decide to change gear?? What are all the different modes for?? i must say the sales guy didnt actually fill me with any confidence.. he just said its for people who like auto's. Which I am not a great fan of. Anyway his tact of explaining how it works wasnt great but i just wasnt convinced and thought maybe i should wait until im in my 30's/40's before I start to cut the old left leg some slack.
just my opinion :laugh:
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Wait till your 30's/40's?
Err I'm 43, so I must be ancient :undecided: :cry:
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and thought maybe i should wait until im in my 30's/40's before I start to cut the old left leg some slack.
Thats one reason I bought it too :embarassed: Still only 32 at the moment, but this car is going to stay with me for a long time hopefully.
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Wait till your 30's/40's?
Err I'm 43, so I must be ancient :undecided: :cry:
Yeah you are ancient.. you old codger :laugh: You make Red Robin look young and he's in his 60's :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin:
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Its all good as long as you dont drive like most 60yr olds :grin:
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Its all good as long as you dont drive like most 60yr olds :grin:
I drive it like I stole it!...If that's the correct saying for you young whippersnappers(http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o313/stewmenoo/Animations/old.gif)
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(http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o313/stewmenoo/Animations/old.gif)
Hey Hurdy, nice photo. Honestly you don't look that old. :grin: :grin: :grin:
Well, not as old as I imagined :rolleyes:
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Its all good as long as you dont drive like most 60yr olds :grin:
I drive it like I stole it!...If that's the correct saying for you young whippersnappers(http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o313/stewmenoo/Animations/old.gif)
Thats not bad at all Mr Hurdy!! Do you rekon you could photoshop in your walking sticks hanging off your wing mirrors lol
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Its all good as long as you dont drive like most 60yr olds :grin:
I drive it like I stole it!...If that's the correct saying for you young whippersnappers(http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o313/stewmenoo/Animations/old.gif)
Thats not bad at all Mr Hurdy!! Do you rekon you could photoshop in your walking sticks hanging off your wing mirrors lol
I thought about grafting in a Zimmerframe, but then I realised VW had already done that to the front of the MKV R32 :rolleyes: :evil:(http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t8/hurdy_album/fishing1.gif)
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^^^
Legendary :laugh:
Hurdy. My mom cant drive automatic. Dont let me get started on what happened when she last drove the Mitsubishi PAjero which is Tiptronic :lipsrsealed:
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Its all good as long as you dont drive like most 60yr olds :grin:
I drive it like I stole it!...If that's the correct saying for you young whippersnappers(http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o313/stewmenoo/Animations/old.gif)
Thats not bad at all Mr Hurdy!! Do you rekon you could photoshop in your walking sticks hanging off your wing mirrors lol
I thought about grafting in a Zimmerframe, but then I realised VW had already done that to the front of the MKV R32 :rolleyes: :evil:(http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t8/hurdy_album/fishing1.gif)
ahh!! I like that one.. :grin: Or could it just be the old shakes effecting the trigger finger :rolleyes: