GolfGTIforum.co.uk
Model specific boards => Golf mk2 => Topic started by: Blazing Storm on 01 November 2007, 22:42
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My MFA hasn't worked since owning my car and now more important things are sorted I want to try and sort it. The only two things that work are time and ambient temperature.
Here's what the other settings give:
Driving time: 0:08 (reaches that after about five minutes, as it slowly goes up)
Distance driven: 0 miles
Average speed: between about 1 and 3
Average consumption: 1.0
Engine oil temperature: ---
It doesn't matter how long I drive for it doesn't change.
I'm not sure what to try so do you guys know what could be wrong? I've tried clearing the memory but that doesn't make any difference. Also removed the fuse and inserted again after 10 secs but that didn't help either.
Thanks in advance
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Anyone got any ideas? :sad:
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I'm no expert, but the read-outs are controlled by both vac pipes and temp senders etc. so check for leaks/test the senders, but to be honest, it sounds like the clocks are fooked. You could always try removing the clocks (it looks easy) and check the connections at the back of them.
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OK, I'll see how easy it is to do. Thanks for the response.
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John has done a great guide here for taking them out:
http://www.golfgtiforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=10385.0
tbh yours sound well gone. Have a look at your earthing (valve cover to coil bracket) as well as Conker's suggestion, otherwise its Ebay time. :smiley:
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Cheers, will look into it.
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Mine reckoned I was doing 90+ mpg as I tanked down the A34 on Saturday!
I have since found a disconnected pipe.......
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A question has just occured to me. I have 140MPH clocks in my 8v Golf. I thought 120MPH clocks were fitted to the 8v and 140MPH to 16v; is this not the case?
With the underdash tray out I can see a hose connected to the MFA which must be for the MPG reading. I'll have to check there are no breaks in it. In the engine bay there is a hose that has been cut and plugged; not too sure what it is. It's located at the back by connection to the airbox.
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No mk2 16v cars wer fitted with 160mph clock and run out model 8 valves 140mph clocks.As for mfa there should be a vacuum pipe on the back off the clock and also if the oil temperature still aint working ceck the oil switch in the head.
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No mk2 16v cars wer fitted with 160mph clock and run out model 8 valves 140mph clocks.As for mfa there should be a vacuum pipe on the back off the clock and also if the oil temperature still aint working ceck the oil switch in the head.
OK, thanks. Just wondered if clocks had been replaced and connections broken or something. The vacuum pipe is definitely connected to the clocks.
If I bought new clocks is there anyway of changing the mileage to what my current ones say now?
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Here's that disconnected pipe:
(http://img57.imageshack.us/img57/7302/pipejh5.jpg)
Anyone know what it is?
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I'm pretty sure they all have that mate. For what reason i do not know!
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mines got the same blanking device...
thats not ur problem
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Weird how they all have that. Learn something new everyday. Thanks for telling me. Wonder what it's for!
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I think its a left over from the earlier days of the Golf when they were fitted with an economy meter. ie, you could moniter how much gas or power you were using.
It would have been connected to what is essentially a manifold pressure guage. Turbo or supercharged cars would have this connected to a boost pressure guage.
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Cool, well that's another thing learnt. :cool:
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Could someone tell me if I bought new clocks is there anyway of changing the mileage to what my current ones say now?
Peel, which pipe did you find disconnected on yours?
How do you check that the oil temp sender is working?
With the underdash off I can see that everything is connected to the clocks. I've looked around the engine bay and can't see any disconnected pipes.
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Just a suggestion but the MFA didnt work on my 8v for ages until I found out that the car had the incorrect battery fitted, chnaged it for a new one and hey presto!
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Really? I think it's the right one but I'll check tomorrow. Don't really see why it should make a difference though. Maybe resetting the MFA worked for you when you disconnected the battery.
I find it strange that the ambient temp is being shown on the MFA but nothing else on it works correctly.
If anyone could answer the other questions from my last post that would be great. :smiley:
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Yeah as far as Im aware the MFA isnt high on the electrical systems list of priorities so if the battery is underpowered or buggered then it wont work apparently. Id had the old battery on and off a few times to do work on the car so it cant have been re-set. As for your other questions Im unsure bud :cool:
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Thanks anyway. I'll definitely take a look tomorrow.
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Mines balloxed too kind of given up on it tbh tried changing the clocks and allsorts, still no bloody joy!!
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What readings work on yours?
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Oil temp, Outside temp, Time. And thats it!
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I reckon oil temp may work on mine if I changed the sender. Looks like we're in the same boat. Rather puts me off replacing the clocks. I wonder what might be causing it then? I've heard there's a little black box under the dash that controls the MFA but not sure it's true. Another thing I'll look into tomorrow. Rubs would probably know. Seems to know his stuff.
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Changed that too, it controls the ISV. It used to work thats the annoying thing I think it stopped when I changed my bulbs for LEDs.
I have changed allsorts matey
All vac hoses,
all temp senders,
Clocks,
ECU, Ignition amplifier,
Voltage Regulator in clocks,
Vac unit in clocks,
Speedo Cable,
Oil pressure sender,
Oil temp sender,
my last ditch attempt is to change the LED's back to bulbs and the stalks and see if that cures it, can't see why it would but you never know!
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To answer my own question from earlier I've found I can keep my original mileage if I do the same as was done here: http://www.golfgtiforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=46057.70
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that hose isnt to sdo with the econ gauge, that would be working off the vac hose to the back of the clocks. Fort a start the digifant wasn't even invented when that gauge was around ;)
That hose and the other blanked of hose at the front is used for automatic engines and things like the emissions controls fitted to countries like the US with stricter laws.
Looking at your issue I'd say nthe problem is due to the speedo sensor screwed to the back of the speedo, without this non of the milage & mpg related settings will work. Also your oil temp gauge is buggered, or the wiring to it has snapped, or just a dirty connection between the 2. The oil temp sender is the small one on the oil filter housing with a black/green wire, to test if it the sender or wire, remove the wire and earth it to the block. If the gauge shoots to max you know its a sender issue or the connection needs cleaning up!
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Thanks rubjonny.
"Looking at your issue I'd say the problem is due to the speedo sensor screwed to the back of the speedo, without this non of the milage & mpg related settings will work."
How is best to fix this?
Is it the black box here:
(http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k234/mattneck/DSC02823.jpg)
Reference: http://www.golfgtiforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=46057.70
Do I simply replace it?
Cheers
:cool:
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1st thing to do is just have a shufti at it, make sure its screwed in place properly and the PBC is clipped in it properly. If it all looks ok you could find one from another set o clocks and swap over, but you would need another set o GTI clocks! If you got another set o clocks just chuck em in, if it fixes it you know its a problem with the old cluster, if not issue is elsewhere...
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yep thats the puppy, you can see the mountin screws on it, plus the clip either side that allows you to open it and reseat the pcb :)
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Cheers. I'll take a look in a minute. If it looks OK I'll get some other clocks. Does it matter if the new clocks are 120mph rather than 140mph ones? Will the sensor be the same is what I mean?
Thanks for your help. I feel more hopeful about it now.
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yeah it'll work fine :)
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Peel, which pipe did you find disconnected on yours?
Sorry mate only just spotted this. Day off work tomorrow to do some Golf stuff so I'll post up a pic asap...
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Thanks Peel. I have a feeling the speedo sensor rubjonny mentions is the most likely cause of the problem but it's good to check everything at the same time.
I've had a look and can see the sensor, which appears to be screwed in properly so I'll now have to take the clocks out and take a closer look.
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I changed that on mine as well :laugh: runnning out of things to change!
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Also your oil temp gauge is buggered, or the wiring to it has snapped, or just a dirty connection between the 2. The oil temp sender is the small one on the oil filter housing with a black/green wire, to test if it the sender or wire, remove the wire and earth it to the block. If the gauge shoots to max you know its a sender issue or the connection needs cleaning up!
How do I go about earthing it to the block? I've just been out and have cleaned the connection, which was quite corroded. Just not sure how to earth it to the block now. I know I need to warm the engine up first but may as well ask the question now.
I changed that on mine as well :laugh: runnning out of things to change!
Makes me wonder if it's worth taking out the clocks at all then. If I get the oil temp working I may not bother.
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just touch it to something metal, engine block, chassis etc. the battery -ve would do if it can reach! Trouble is holding it there while you check the mfa oil temp gauge...
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just touch it to something metal, engine block, chassis etc. the battery -ve would do if it can reach! Trouble is holding it there while you check the mfa oil temp gauge...
Exactly. May just get someone to hold it there whilst I check the MFA. So, if I still don't get a reading when the connection is on the block does that mean the wire has snapped or could it be something else?
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if still nothing then you got a breeak in the wiring or a problem with the dash cluster
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Thanks. :smiley:
How much does the dash cluster control the MFA because my brother is sure that a black box under the dash controls the MFA entirely?
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mfa circuitry is all contained within the dash clocks, no idea what the black box your bro is talking about is, but it aint mfa related ;)
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The black box is on the 16v and controls the ISV, it's behind the centre console
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The black box is on the 16v and controls the ISV, it's behind the centre console
OK, thanks. :smiley:
I have been looking just to buy some clocks off of Ebay but people want stupid money sometimes and with Christmas coming up I think It'll have to wait until afterwards.
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i got some clocks you can buy.. how much you willing to pay? only 120mph ones mind but all working
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Thanks for the offer but I'd rather get some 140MPH ones, which are the ones I currently have.
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no worries
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your 140mph speedo will fit the 120mph clocks ;)
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I know, from what you said earlier, but if I end up swapping the clocks over completely I want the 140MPH ones really.
rubjonny, do you know if one can change the mileage on the clocks to match existing mileage?
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tis easily done, but requires taking the speedo out, popping the needle off, removing the face etc etc. If you want to do that might as well just swap the whole speedo over, wont take 5 minutes.
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Oh I see. Just remove the speedo half and swap onto the other clocks. I take it there's nothing MFA related in that half that could have gone wrong?
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only the speed sensor, which you'll be keeping from the new clocks :)
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Great, thanks rubjonny. I feel better about it now. Not such a problem if I can keep my mileage.
:smiley:
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Before you start stripping and swapping around speedos put the new ones in as is and go for a drive make sure that is definitely your problem first. Been there done that got the tshirt as they said in the 80's!
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Hm, I held the oil temp connector to the head when the engine was warm today and still get no reading on the MFA. Very disappointed. :cry:
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I went for an anger drive this evening and actually found that the driving time appears to be working. Does this mean the speedo sensor is OK and the problem is elsewhere?
Thanks
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Nope mine works as well! I did find that putting it into test mode and nothing on the screen matches up to what it should be, I've bought a new set of clocks from Ebay so will try them when they get here, also got a new MFA stalk to try! I will get it working again!!!!!!!!! (maybe) (I hope)
No warranty is given or implied, failure to keep up with repayments may put your house at risk!
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driving time just means the clock works, its the avg speed & distance travelled that run off the speedo sensor ;)
If the oil temp still dont work when you earth the plug you got a snapped wire somewhere, check my fusebox FAQ :)
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My wiring looks like it may have been messed around with in the past, though I have nothing to compare it to. Here's a couple of pics:
(http://img61.imageshack.us/img61/8784/wiresui6.jpg)
(http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/3600/greenblackpp7.jpg)
Is it normal to have those joint connections on some?
I've shown the green and back wire because that must be the oil temp sensor wire?
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Also, you'll notice in the top pic there's a brown wire with a white connector that isn't connected to anything. What is that for?
I've just been looking at your fusebox FAQ guide rubjonny but you say about several brown wires.
Under the fuse box I have a black wire and plastic connector connected to nothing and also a white and blue wire with black connector that isn't connected to anything. Not sure what they are either.
Finally there's a red and black wire that isn't connected to anything and has black tape over it.
I'm sure one of the connectors was for the alarm that was removed but what about the others?
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Here's a pic of those connectors:
(http://img502.imageshack.us/img502/5765/loosewirespc2.jpg)
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Looks like its had an alarm fitted then hacked out, thats deffo not factory fitment. That wire isnt for the sensor its probably for the indicators or something, the oil temp wire will be buried behind the fusebox :)
The black wire is a spare ign live, the white blue is spare lights on feed and the brown wire will be an earth, if you cant see any other brown wires with no home to go to then its again a spare. VW had a std loom, and the spare connectors are used for options that were available at the time but not installed :)
Not sure what the red/black is, could be for an alarm follow it and see where it goes :)
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OK, thanks rubjonny, I'll have to take a look behind the fusebox for the oil temp sensor lead then. :smiley:
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Well after 2 years of no MFA mine is working at last :) I bought some clocks from Ebay they got delivered this morning and I fitted them at lunchtime! so might be worth changing your clocks out as you have the same symptoms as mine apart from the oil temp sender.
Wish I hadn't in a way because it confirms that I'm getting an average of 21 mpg :(
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Well after 2 years of no MFA mine is working at last :) I bought some clocks from Ebay they got delivered this morning and I fitted them at lunchtime! so might be worth changing your clocks out as you have the same symptoms as mine apart from the oil temp sender.
Wish I hadn't in a way because it confirms that I'm getting an average of 21 mpg :(
Good news you've got yours working. :cool:
I'm currently watching a direct match to mine on Ebay. I'll get them if they go for a decent amount.
Know what you mean about the MPG. On my 8V I average 30 to a tank and I know it's supposed to get more. I've had the timing sorted and the emissions are set up right too. Just doesn't make sense.
Hopefully I'll get some clocks soon to try, though will probably be after Christmas the way things are going.
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Wish I hadn't in a way because it confirms that I'm getting an average of 21 mpg :(
:shocked: :shocked: :shocked: :shocked: :shocked: jesus,. I AM VERY lead footed, and still average 28 to a gallon
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I know thats after an engine rebuild! it costs me 57p a mile :laugh: fooking crazy ain't it, ah well smiles per gallon, smiles per gallon.