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Model specific boards => Golf mk2 => Topic started by: jammac on 07 October 2007, 16:15

Title: crap heater!
Post by: jammac on 07 October 2007, 16:15
winter is coming!

my heater is absolute cack unless ive been driving for an hour or so!

any ideas anyone?

it does blow some hot air once the coolant is warmed but not enough to de-ice my windscreen at 6am before work in january!

ive had a feel of the pipes leading in and out of the engine bay bulkhead and they are both nice and hot so im thinking air in the heater matrix? what can i do to get rid?

cheers all

Title: Re: crap heater!
Post by: clipperjay on 07 October 2007, 16:22
Do you have a heater bypass valve just before the two pipes going into the heater matrix?
If you do you can either replace stock item or just take it out and use copper pipes to make a clear connection essentially removing the blocked bypass valve :smiley:
J
 
Title: Re: crap heater!
Post by: golf8v on 07 October 2007, 16:28
does the gauge go up half way?? or is it not moving?
Title: Re: crap heater!
Post by: fused on 07 October 2007, 17:48
Yeah if the bypass is faulty that might do it or if both pipes are toasty right up next to the bulkhead then probaly a blocked matrix, ie limescale/radiator weld that sort of thing. Try a search but I think a mk3 matrix is a straight swap? and not prone to the dangerous leaks of originals.

When I changed the matrix and stupidly  :embarassed: replaced the bypass mine was fine but holy did she ever got hot once I got rid of the bypass  :shocked: 3-4 mins before warm/hot then 5mins+ = :cool: beach in Mexico!
Title: Re: crap heater!
Post by: 8vRicey on 08 October 2007, 05:15
I concur.
Get rid of the bypass valve and you will be lovely n toasty !!  :grin:
Title: Re: crap heater!
Post by: jammac on 08 October 2007, 10:05
im not sure if ive got a bypass valve? what would it look like? which pipe would it be on drivers or passenger side?

 i think both pipes go straight into the bulk head? i cant remember off my head if theres any kind of valve there?

my coolant gauge is working correctly. it goes up to just below halfway with normal driving and goes higher when im sitting in traffic so i dont think its anything to do with that. 

ill take a pic and post it in abit if i can

cheers for ya help guys
Title: Re: crap heater!
Post by: jammac on 08 October 2007, 11:43
not a great pic but you can get the jist of it. there are only 2 pipes going into the bulkhead. i looked on ebay for a heater bypass valve and now realise i definatly dont have one as there is no pipe work going from one of these pipes to the other therefore bypassing my heater matrix. i guess my matrix is blocked then huh? or an air lock? any suggestions?  :cry:

(http://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z34/jamiemacpherson1981/DSC00194.jpg)

Title: Re: crap heater!
Post by: dabill on 08 October 2007, 13:43
heater matrix is a major pain to change! try bleeding the system, if not, then spanners might have to come out...
Title: Re: crap heater!
Post by: clipperjay on 08 October 2007, 15:29
Try running two part Holts rad flush firstly it might eat away the crap blocking the heater matrix then stick a water hose down one on the inlet's and flush away. Cheapest way I know without heater matrix being removed which I have to say is a bloody pain as the whole under dash has to come out just to get to the firewall pipes.

J

Title: Re: crap heater!
Post by: jammac on 08 October 2007, 16:01
sounds like a right arse! ill try that rad flush and bleed the system as per rub jonnys guide. hope that sorts it cos ive had a look  at the heater matrix guide also and it sounds like a nightmare!

cheers for ya help guys ill let ya know if it works after a good fluch/bleed
Title: Re: crap heater!
Post by: Horney on 08 October 2007, 16:22
Heater matrix change? Cheaper and less hassle to buy a decent coat and gloves. I did one a few years back and it was the worst job I've ever had to do on a MKII. I ended up having to source loads of bits frm the scrappy as the box with all the flaps in for directing the air just fell to bits when I took it out. VW wanted £150 for a replacement!

Nick
Title: Re: crap heater!
Post by: jammac on 08 October 2007, 16:31
GREAT! im filling with confidence now!

ive just bled the system as per R.Js guide. hasnt seemed to have done much at first glance but i guess i wont know until i start her up from cold as to whether or not its worked? rad flush tomorrow anyway i think as my coolant is looking pretty brown!
Title: Re: crap heater!
Post by: Horney on 08 October 2007, 16:34
I think mine went as wrong as it's possible to go, they're not all that bad.

Nick
Title: Re: crap heater!
Post by: jammac on 09 October 2007, 14:04
OK i think its safe to say bleeding the system has done naff all as i had to drive home from a nightshift freezing my arse off this morning!! ill get on with the rad flush when its not raining.
Title: Re: crap heater!
Post by: Ben Lessani on 09 October 2007, 20:58
The bypass valves look like this...the lower left corner with the u-shaped pipe and jubilie clips on it

(http://img420.imageshack.us/img420/8233/minicimg3333zw5.jpg)


then after you remove them, if will look something like this....to the right hand side of the rocker cover, the two copper pipes

(http://img118.imageshack.us/img118/7365/minicimg3494yr6.jpg)
Title: Re: crap heater!
Post by: Organisys on 09 October 2007, 21:18
Flush the matrix in reverse direction. Find a mechanic with a pressure stream cleaner of you can.

Search Ebay for cheap coat as Nick mentioned. Leave coat in car, job done.

 :smiley:
Title: Re: crap heater!
Post by: clipperjay on 09 October 2007, 21:54
Can you buy like an electric fan that plug into the ciggie and bingo instant heat no need to wait for the car to warm up either! :laugh:
J
Title: Re: crap heater!
Post by: Ben Lessani on 09 October 2007, 22:09
Trouble is electric heaters draw a few hundred watts of power, usually 500+ ..... a good 40 amps of power, might melt the poor quality ciggy wiring.
Title: Re: crap heater!
Post by: clipperjay on 09 October 2007, 22:11
Trouble is electric heaters draw a few hundred watts of power, usually 500+ ..... a good 40 amps of power, might melt the poor quality ciggy wiring.

Yeah I was taking the pisss fella  :wink:
Title: Re: crap heater!
Post by: Dolly on 09 October 2007, 22:38
mine is luke cold at best its the stat.. its open all the time hence longer warm up times and heater times.. it sits halfway between a quater and half driving and takes an eternity to get there.. if i sit idle for 10 mins and it finally hits halfway (normal operating temp) the heaters work fine.. ill see how it goes when i put a G60 in with a working stat in the baby
Title: Re: crap heater!
Post by: jammac on 10 October 2007, 00:51
yeah i definatly havent got a bypass valve then and by the looks of it none of the previous owners have bodged in any copper pipe either!

Flush the matrix in reverse direction. Find a mechanic with a pressure stream cleaner of you can.

Search Ebay for cheap coat as Nick mentioned. Leave coat in car, job done.

 :smiley:

i do own a coat as sometimes its cold and wet in england!!!!
Title: Re: crap heater!
Post by: jammac on 10 October 2007, 16:35
 :huh:

im a little confused as ive just taken off the hoses that run upto my heater matrix and shoved a hose pipe into one of em...... the water that came out the other was as clear as it went in and not particualrly restricted?????? put it back together and bleed the system again and still no joy!!?!?!

ill try some radflush over the weekend but im dreading the matrix change which i think might have to be my next option
Title: Re: crap heater!
Post by: Heyho on 10 October 2007, 17:17
Just something to try - with the engine up to temp, and the heater set to hot with the fan blowing, can you feel any appreciable difference in temp between the in and out pipes on the matrix (under bonnet)?

The other thing to consider (don't think it's been mentioned yet) is the blending flap in the heater box - does the hot/cold slider control move smoothly, or even feel like it's attatched to anything?  I'm pretty sure that it's cable operated, and they can become dislodged or even damaged by ham fisted radio fitting.
Title: Re: crap heater!
Post by: clipperjay on 10 October 2007, 17:27
:huh:

im a little confused as ive just taken off the hoses that run upto my heater matrix and shoved a hose pipe into one of em...... the water that came out the other was as clear as it went in and not particualrly restricted?????? put it back together and bleed the system again and still no joy!!?!?!

ill try some radflush over the weekend but im dreading the matrix change which i think might have to be my next option

Try the other pipe there is two fella!

J
Title: Re: crap heater!
Post by: Uruk Hai on 10 October 2007, 18:53
I know this sounds a bit simplistic but the heater on my first golf ended up pants so I was told to try swapping the direction of flow through the matrix and it did the trick, lovely and warm  :smiley:
Title: Re: crap heater!
Post by: Organisys on 10 October 2007, 19:13
I know this sounds a bit simplistic but the heater on my first golf ended up pants so I was told to try swapping the direction of flow through the matrix and it did the trick, lovely and warm  :smiley:

hmmm, i might have to try that one


By the way, am I the only one who finds it hilarious that this type of thread always pops up at this time of year?!?  :laugh:  :laugh:

wait a few months, then you will all be complaining properly!  :grin:
Title: Re: crap heater!
Post by: clipperjay on 10 October 2007, 19:20
I know this sounds a bit simplistic but the heater on my first golf ended up pants so I was told to try swapping the direction of flow through the matrix and it did the trick, lovely and warm  :smiley:

How does that work if the pump flows/spins in only one way? :smiley:
Do you mean swap the two pipes in the cabin the other side that would work as they are both still ilets and outlets, but still flowing same direction I think I'm confused there fella! :undecided: :laugh:
J
   
Title: Re: crap heater!
Post by: Uruk Hai on 10 October 2007, 19:36
Take the two pipes off the matrix and swap them round i.e the inlet becomes the outlet and vise versa, worked on mine  :smiley:
Title: Re: crap heater!
Post by: 8vRicey on 11 October 2007, 05:17
I know this sounds a bit simplistic but the heater on my first golf ended up pants so I was told to try swapping the direction of flow through the matrix and it did the trick, lovely and warm  :smiley:

hmmm, i might have to try that one


By the way, am I the only one who finds it hilarious that this type of thread always pops up at this time of year?!?  :laugh:  :laugh:

wait a few months, then you will all be complaining properly!  :grin:

I sorted mine in August !!  :laugh: :laugh:
Now it's August all year round !!   :grin: :grin:
Title: Re: crap heater!
Post by: g60 matt on 11 October 2007, 10:13
i had to change mine in febuary! job its self is quiet straight foward just a case of getting on to everything. think a new matrix was about £45 so worth doing if you have nothnig to do one afternoon as its soooooo warm now.
Title: Re: crap heater!
Post by: Dubloon on 11 October 2007, 21:56
I'm halfway through changing my Matrix as we speak. Its tricky but not megger difficult and believe me I'm no mechanic :undecided:

My heater was also sh!te so I decided to remove the bypass and copper tube it, big mistake! Two days later, a drip at my feet, fogging screen and the lovely smell of red hot coolant :cry:

If you do decide to change it, print off RJs guide (cheers RJ)  and use it alongside the Haynes.
Title: Re: crap heater!
Post by: Ben Lessani on 11 October 2007, 22:54
thats what my car probably smells of.....and the windscreen does fog immediately after turning the hot air onto it......oh no
Title: Re: crap heater!
Post by: Uruk Hai on 12 October 2007, 13:00
Sorry to hear that mate how much water is it useing ?
Title: Re: crap heater!
Post by: clipperjay on 12 October 2007, 16:40
Haa gues what..... my heater matrix just pooped itself!!!! Lol how many of you would like a Pictoria done on this?
It will be left hand drive my first done right, but slightly different on a Rallye possibly? :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:
Title: Re: crap heater!
Post by: Dubloon on 12 October 2007, 18:15
thats what my car probably smells of.....and the windscreen does fog immediately after turning the hot air onto it......oh no

Dont worry mate, like I said its a bit tricky but if you dont rush and get all stressed its easily done. Read Rjs guide and it will become clear as you do each bit.
Title: Re: crap heater!
Post by: Dubloon on 12 October 2007, 18:16
Haa gues what..... my heater matrix just pooped itself!!!! Lol how many of you would like a Pictoria done on this?
It will be left hand drive my first done right, but slightly different on a Rallye possibly? :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:


Good idea mate and a nice offer :wink:
Title: Re: crap heater!
Post by: Ben Lessani on 13 October 2007, 00:48
im gonna pressure test it first anyway, see if i have any leaks. then i'll swap it if needs be.....no task is too tall for me
Title: Re: crap heater!
Post by: Uruk Hai on 13 October 2007, 11:40
clipperjay, good idea mate. I think a good how too with pics would be brillaint as its obviously not a rare problem but I dont think that many of us have done a matrix before so it would be realy usefull (after saying that I bet my f*cking matrix goes bang now  :rolleyes:)
Title: Re: crap heater!
Post by: clipperjay on 13 October 2007, 11:51
clipperjay, good idea mate. I think a good how too with pics would be brillaint as its obviously not a rare problem but I dont think that many of us have done a matrix before so it would be realy usefull (after saying that I bet my f*cking matrix goes bang now  :rolleyes:)

Yeah I'll give it ago I'm not starting until monday(stripping off) when I have time plus the new matrix is coming in the next two working days.
Can you believe that a left hand one is more expensive and VAG wanted £120.00 the cheapest I could get it was £78. But Egay does have its uses and £35 all in saved the day!

I haven't decided the methodology yet, either take out the whole dash or the bottom end method which requires a bit of pull and tug which might end up a longer job or breakage during the vent junction part? :undecided:


Jay

Title: Re: crap heater!
Post by: jammac on 16 October 2007, 08:52
HEY!

I flushed my coolant system with that holts 2 part flush stuff and guess what!?!?

it has made a little bit of a differance! and my engine temp is about 4-6 degress less!!!

still not hot enough to de ice my windscreen at 6am in the morning in january though, so i guess the inevitable is here!!! ill hang back for your picy guide though clipperjay! thanks for your help mate!
Title: Re: crap heater!
Post by: clipperjay on 16 October 2007, 11:28
HEY!

I flushed my coolant system with that holts 2 part flush stuff and guess what!?!?

it has made a little bit of a differance! and my engine temp is about 4-6 degress less!!!

still not hot enough to de ice my windscreen at 6am in the morning in january though, so i guess the inevitable is here!!! ill hang back for your picy guide though clipperjay! thanks for your help mate!

I did my flush twice..... I think cascade problems cause meno end of grief, but  a car that has sat for 10 years in a barn I'm not surprised. Its grief doing this job I'm waiting for the delivery of the new rad can't carry on until then. Bloody postal strike! My problems is defo blocked heater matrix the massaging of the pipes I did ended up pooping the blocked rad.
You are using de-ionised water arent you, after flushing? keeps it nice and clean no lime scale to bugger it up again.
J


 
Title: Re: crap heater!
Post by: moimo on 16 October 2007, 21:15
the heater matrix from new was always an issue, the tempreture and the combination of pressure caused as people know the matrix to go which as we all know is a pain in the rear end to change, a mod/recall was insigated and this is the heater bypass valve which allows water to circulate round the system bypassing the matrix, irstly if your car hasnt got one its very easy to tell, the inlet and outlet that go through the bulk head will be straight pipes and nothing attached, if the is one it will consist of a metal valve a plastic cylinder and it will be connected between the in and out for the heater matrix under the bonnet as shown by photos alreayd posted. as the valve gets old it stops allowing water to circulate through the heater matrix and only acts as a bypass hence the purpose. unless you are a real gambler i would replace as a matter of course when ever you by a car, its the equiv of changinf the cam bel to stop valve damage, they are about 30.00 last on i got from gsf, oem vw part as thats the only people who make them (some one may have started but for 30 quid get the quality one). hey take about 10 mins to change an if you have no leaks in your system and the engine is hitting normal temp this is hat it will be, i would strongly advise against running with out one, that said people have done for years and thee will be lots of golfs that have never had one. anyway a lot of waffle

basically, change the valve when you change yr car, rember check antifreeze mixture especially this time of year, hope hats of help Mo
Title: Re: crap heater!
Post by: dubmaster77 on 16 October 2007, 22:50
I have changed my matrix valves and thermostat, Now i get a rweading on the temp gauge but still no warm air through my blower!!! Gutted!!!!!11 Im losing patince with it fast!!!
Title: Re: crap heater!
Post by: golf8v on 22 October 2007, 20:08
get rid off the bypass valves they were my problem. now i have lovely heat..
Title: Re: crap heater!
Post by: FAZAT on 15 November 2007, 15:02
Just thought I would BUMP this tread as I have no heaters at the mo.
But I now have a list of things to try :cool: