GolfGTIforum.co.uk
Model specific boards => Golf mk5 => Topic started by: RedRobin on 29 June 2007, 15:02
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I haven't been visiting this forum for long but it seems to me that very few of you mod your Mk5 GTI's. Why is that?
The most that anyone does is a remap, and yet it's more sensible to do other 'hardware' mods first and ones which support a remap better. Is it a UK thing? In America they go to the other extreme. I found it quite scary to read posts here from people not knowing what a Diverter Valve is, and I'm neither a mechanic nor engineer.
Discuss?
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RR must say your car looks the biz........:wink:
As for modding, IMHO the Mk V is a 'grown up' GTI and (stereotyping I know), it is mainly the younger element (with the obvious exception here :shocked:) who are into modding. I'm pushing the big 50 in December and have always liked my sporty cars, but the last car I modded was a second hand 1992 Mk II GTI :laugh: By then I'd already gone through the Ford Fiesta XR2 and Peugeot 205 GTI 1.9 phases and got a bit tired of the harshness of the ride and poor build quality. Guess I got old awful quick :embarassed:
Ever since then I've had new cars and the thought of meddling with a new car under warranty seems foreign to me. I used to work in the motor trade many years ago and still have a basic understanding of mechanics but the days are long gone when I would get my own hands dirty, apart from being fastidious in keeping the GTI looking good. Modern day electronics and diagnostics are something I wouldn't meddle with either. Then there is the cost of modding - something you know well :grin: It can get out of control. Personally, I would rather spend my bucks changing to another car if I thought my current one wasn't delivering what I wanted. I would also never consider tracking my own car. I worked too hard to risk bending it and would never thrash it anyway.
I moved from a Boxster back to a GTI last year and that was for both financial and relaibility issues. I could have pushed the boat out and bought a new Porker but I decided to compromise and get a new car with a 3year warranty and keep the wife happy as well, so I also bought her a new Toyota :shocked:
So there it is, too old, too frightened, too wise or too tight :smug:
Take your pick :grin: :grin: :grin:
Cass
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if the question is why don't people mod much....
1) I dont want to mess with the warranty
2) you never get your money back on mods when you sell
3) I don't want to look/sound like a chav
:laugh:
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if the question is why don't people mod much....
1) I dont want to mess with the warranty
2) you never get your money back on mods when you sell
3) I don't want to look/sound like a chav
:laugh:
ditto, the last thing id wanna do is maybe wrap my car round a lamp post!!, or wreck my warranty,car insurance if found out, on a car ive spent best part of £23000!, too risky and for that extra half a second or maybe mid range pull scooby catcher, i cant justify it myself. Just my oppinion. Car is superb as it is, why adjust suspention , chav valve it,make it sound like a 1.1 corsa with large bore exhaust (you know the sound!) when its CLASS as it stands! :nerd: just my pennys worth................ok know for the stick from all modders........lay it on :wink:
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if the question is why don't people mod much....
1) I dont want to mess with the warranty
2) you never get your money back on mods when you sell
3) I don't want to look/sound like a chav
:laugh:
I agree. Modding also makes your car harder to sell on. I wouldn't touch a car someone else had modded.
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You could give a Yank the best car ever made, and they'd still pull it apart and mod it.
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I agree with all your comments, the Gti is great, why change it!?
On the other hand, I have an old VW Camper..... that's where my creative mind & money will be going over the next 12 months.... just need to find the best options to lower, upgrade the brakes and fix the rusty bits!! :grin:
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An interesting set of responses :cool:
I do the mods for my enjoyment, no-one else's, and don't care if I get my money back because I know I won't - I don't buy a car as an investment. I plan to keep my car and have it just as I like it by modding. The suspension, brakes, and Stage1 mods enhance what is already a great car but make it excellent in my opinion.
My VW dealer knows about all my mods and is happy about them all. We discuss them before they are done. There is a risk to warranty but by sensible modding, that risk is reduced.
Does my GTI look or sound chavvy? Be honest but judging by the compliments I recieve everywhere, I think not.
(http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b308/RedRobin_05/RED_CoolLighting.jpg)
(http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b308/RedRobin_05/RED_Rear3quarter.jpg)
You guys are right about the Americans modding anything that moves! And doing it from Day One! :smiley:
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Your gti is good. Like the colour coded rear bumper.
Red is an ace colour
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Honest answer, nice colour coding, but the exhaust and stickers in the windows are a bit chav, along with the number plate, I think we know its a RED VW!!!! :evil:
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looks good :cool: only thing I'm not overly keen on is the twin set of tailpipes :undecided:
love the mirrors though :wink:
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I like the twin pipes it balances the back end same as I like the R32 pipes :) good looking Mk5 and they still haven't grown on me :laugh:
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Honest answer, nice colour coding, but the exhaust and stickers in the windows are a bit chav, along with the number plate, I think we know its a RED VW!!!! :evil:
....Gee, you're very conservative but I respect your honesty and it would be dull if we all liked the same. There's more to the plate than stating it's a red VeeDub - Red Robin Music Productions. If it was chav, the plate would have been illegally spaced and in a different script. Anyway, most people including myself at 60yo think it's cool and "all done in the best possible taste" (Kenny Everett) :smiley:
Btw, I got a special offer on my Milltek quads - It would have been rude to refuse and say no.
Je regrette rien.
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I agree with Robin. Most people here go for a bluefin or some other remap, but noone upgrades suspension or exhaust... the desire for speed, I guess...
I go the other way - first I upgrade suspension with Eibach Pro-System-Plus (=shocks, springs, ARBs) right before the delivery
then I wait for Milltek exhaust for Ed30.
then I upgrade air intake
then I do Oettinger remap with mapswitch.
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I'm very much liking that Monza Blue 16v VeeDub - The colour suits it really well :cool:
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Love the colour coding of your car Robin, but the tails pipes are a bit over the top for me. A bit too Saxo boy for my liking. Each to their own I guess, and if you get some enjoyment out of it it has to be worth it. Life's too short after all.
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I go the other way - first I upgrade suspension with Eibach Pro-System-Plus (=shocks, springs, ARBs)
I've never found any problems with the stock suspension as it is, is it worth upgrading?
Your GTI looks cracking RedRobin, quads not for me but I think they still look in keeping with the cars overall image, I want mirrors like yours, and the nose piece! Not sure it would look so good on black though...
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I agree with most of your comments made on here about modding. However, it you are into modding then it does make sense to go down the road that Peskarik is doing. Eventually I will go down this route and would end up doing the following:-
Upgrade brakes (AP/ brembo)
Upgrade cooling (Twintercooler)
Upgrade DV (not for an atmospheric, but would consider a switchable)
Upgrade suspension (Unsure as yet whether to go springs or full adjustable coilovers) also wondering whether new TT upgrade is compatible?
Ram air system
Remap
Yet again, most people would cite cost against these, but as RR says you don't do mods as an investment.
There is a fine line between chav mods and sensible mods. For the most part performance mods are sensible IMO. It is simply a matter of time until the MKV becomes affordable to people who want to do mods and by then the cars will for the most part be out of warranty anyway....then watch the modding scene take off :shocked: :rolleyes:
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I've never found any problems with the stock suspension as it is, is it worth upgrading?
....I never had any problems with stock either but after driving a modified suspension version I realised how much better planted the car is with sus mods when driven hard. Anti-roll bars make a significant difference and I'd say it's worth just doing those. Ray West advised me and did my suspension and he's a very experienced race car builder and driver - We did the suspension for fast road use and would probably use Bilstein for track.
It's a very slippery slope but with all that extra power your remapped Ed30 has, you would appreciate AP Racing's Big Brake kit (fronts only). Again, the stock brakes are good but will fade and the pedal response could be better when driving enthusiastically.
Btw, I don't drive 'enthusiastically' all the time but only sometimes when conditions allow - Otherwise why have a GTI?
Your GTI looks cracking RedRobin, quads not for me but I think they still look in keeping with the cars overall image, I want mirrors like yours, and the nose piece! Not sure it would look so good on black though...
The carbonfibre eye-candy nose piece and mirrors are by OSIR via their exclusive European distributor The TTshop in Bedford. Not cheap but high quality. Personally I think CF on a black car would look very subtle but there's no performance return for your money! If you contact them, speak nicely to Justin or Dave and mention me - Robin.
:cool:
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I agree with most of your comments made on here about modding. However, it you are into modding then it does make sense to go down the road that Peskarik is doing. Eventually I will go down this route and would end up doing the following:-
Upgrade brakes (AP/ brembo)
Upgrade cooling (Twintercooler)
Upgrade DV (not for an atmospheric, but would consider a switchable)
Upgrade suspension (Unsure as yet whether to go springs or full adjustable coilovers) also wondering whether new TT upgrade is compatible?
Ram air system
Remap
Yet again, most people would cite cost against these, but as RR says you don't do mods as an investment.
There is a fine line between chav mods and sensible mods. For the most part performance mods are sensible IMO. It is simply a matter of time until the MKV becomes affordable to people who want to do mods and by then the cars will for the most part be out of warranty anyway....then watch the modding scene take off :shocked: :rolleyes:
I did my main performance hardware mods before remapping too.
Brakes - With your Ed30 I would definitely be considering brakes! It's an often overlooked mod. AP are part of Brembo.
Twintercooler - Hmm, not so critical in the UK unless global warming kicks in big time!!
Forge DV - More of a wise precautionary measure as the stock one is not very robust - What Revision # is on the Ed30? C?
Suspension - Just makes it even more of a joy to drive. Anti-roll bars and the best return for money.
Ram Air intake - More useful if you have a Hi-flow Milltek or similar exhaust.
Remap - Releases the potential as long as reliablity isn't compromised by pushing that envelope too far. VW generally build-in about +40% 'headroom'.
Yes, you're so right about how the Mk5 modding scene will take off! It's traditional if you run a GTI isn't it?
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ditto, the last thing id wanna do is maybe wrap my car round a lamp post!!, or wreck my warranty,car insurance if found out, on a car ive spent best part of £23000!, too risky and for that extra half a second or maybe mid range pull scooby catcher, i cant justify it myself. Just my oppinion. Car is superb as it is, why adjust suspention , chav valve it,make it sound like a 1.1 corsa with large bore exhaust (you know the sound!) when its CLASS as it stands! :nerd: just my pennys worth................ok know for the stick from all modders........lay it on :wink:
- Yes, my warranty is more at risk but it's not a heavy risk and my VW dealer is cool about all my mods and even fitted some of them.
- My insurers know all about my mods.
- I mod for my own driving enjoyment and not to street race scoobies etc.
- The stock Mk5 GTI truly is superb but it doesn't mean it can't be made even better. Suspension makes it much better planted and handling.
- No Milltek exhaust sounds 'Saxo-boy'. the Mk5 cabin is too well soundproofed in my opinion and the Milltek sound is subtle. Hi-flow helps the engine breathe.
But I respect you not feeling any need to mod. It's an exceptional car just left as stock. :cool:
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Love my GTI - but an alternative slant :rolleyes:
Paid £25k for my current GTI last year :smug: Will not mod it :lipsrsealed:
Paid £29.5k for a Porsche Boxster 2.7 with 12 months OPC warranty :wink:
Both cars are totally different with a huge difference in running costs.
Never thought of modding the Boxster - always more than enough car for for me and I've had good training and driven some :rolleyes:
Was horrified when I read posts of Boxster owners considering this (mainly younger owners) :angry:
Heavy heart when I came to sell it. Would have loved a 911 (993) BUT...................
Decided to go back to my roots and bought a GTI, which I love :kiss:
But........I'm not modding it :cool:
But, there again, who's to say I'm right :huh:
Cass
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Yes, I doubt very much indeed if I would mod a Porsche or an Evo X for example. But those are primarily performance cars and the Mk5 GTI is a good allrounder and has more potential for modding. But it doesn't mean anyone has to mod their GTI though.
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Honest answer, nice colour coding, but the exhaust and stickers in the windows are a bit chav, along with the number plate, I think we know its a RED VW!!!! :evil:
I'm not a modding fan either but your car looks great and the exhausts are different but I think you get away with it - just about :wink:
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Must admit, I do like the quad exhausts and the lowered suspension :embarassed:
Slap, slap, slap - repeat the mantra - I will not mod, I will not mod, I will not mod !!!
Wife - You will not mod, you will not mod, you will not mod - you know the penalty for non-compliance :rolleyes:
HELP :huh:
Cass
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OMG - just remembered this:
http://www.golfgtiforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=62057.0
Ordered Bluefin brochure :shocked: :shocked: :shocked:
Cass
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I didn't mean to start such an argument, it just my opinion after all..... maybe i've getting old... but funnily enough I do love modding in the right circumstances...
http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa150/beardyw5/lowresPaulsMini2.jpg
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I didn't mean to start such an argument, it just my opinion after all..... maybe i've getting old... but funnily enough I do love modding in the right circumstances...
http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa150/beardyw5/lowresPaulsMini2.jpg
Never really fancied a GTI in blue :laugh:
Cass
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I didn't mean to start such an argument, it just my opinion after all.....
....Don't worry, mate - It's not an argument, we're just discussing our different points of view. In fact, I have to say that peeps on this forum are noticeably respectful of each other's opinions. [so far!]
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Must admit, I do like the quad exhausts and the lowered suspension :embarassed:
Slap, slap, slap - repeat the mantra - I will not mod, I will not mod, I will not mod !!!
Wife - You will not mod, you will not mod, you will not mod - you know the penalty for non-compliance :rolleyes:
HELP :huh:
Cass
....No longer having a wife may have something to do with me being off the leash and indulging myself!
Btw, my suspension is only lowered 5-10 mm - Otherwise the KoniFSD's don't work properly.
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Have been considering upgrading the suspension and brakes for a while. Just a bit worried i may compromise ride comfort - is there any compromisation?
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Have been considering upgrading the suspension and brakes for a while. Just a bit worried i may compromise ride comfort - is there any compromisation?
....To avoid compromising the ride for road use is why I went for the KoniFSD's. Anti-roll bars help keep any car more flatly planted. Big Brakes won't compromise the ride - AP's in particular are very smooth and don't snatch - They're an expensive mod though.
The aim is to firm up the stock suspension without adding harshness to the ride. If you want to experience harshness, try an Audi S4 on an average British road!
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My two pennys worth on this topic! I personally like the aftermarket products and would definately consider the milltek exhaust and other subtle visual changes (interior or exterior). I doubt (never say never!) I would go for the remap option due to warranty concerns and the fact that I am still getting used to the Golf from my previous Audi A3 diesel, at the moment it seems plenty quick enough!! Induction kits and dump valves are not to my taste although the carbon fibre airbox/kit looks sweet!!!
Any visual mods in keeping with the original GTI/Ed30 look are fine but i'm not into the big wings, fins etc look of the max power brigade! For = enhancement, appearance, performance. Against = warranty issues, costs, adds little to resale value, (unless selling to an enthusiast), imho :smiley:
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Why Don't you mod?...
My reasons and mine alone.
I don't like to draw attention to myself.
Theres too many car jackers, tea leafs, scumb etc out there too make your car stand out too much nowadays imo.
If i wanted to stand out there is many bewinged cars out there as standard.
I see it as wasting money as the little extra you gain. 5mph more round a corner, a little bit here and there maybe at most is not worth it too me the roads are just too crowded nowadays.
I also don't like wasting money for the sake of it.
After experience of a certain company with a huge rep a few years back i would prob never remap again anyway.
What would i mod or may mod in the future?
Audio is in the works: I have been into SQ audio for about 16 years and am well know for it, Thats SQ audio not the rep caraudio has not the general perception of caraudio, Im talking imaging/staging/tonality at moderate levels, the standard system is in so need of sorting as its really pants.
When the standard exhaust rots off i will prob replace it with something like the miltex one but the one that looks like the standard version tail pipes.
Somehow i got talked into the monza 18s but then i paid nothing for them lol.
I may also change the silver VW badge to black as it bugs me.
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....Don't worry, mate - It's not an argument, we're just discussing our different points of view. In fact, I have to say that peeps on this forum are noticeably respectful of each other's opinions. [so far!]
I'm not into mods myself, purely because spare cash does not exist in our house... That said, I think RR's GTi is the dog's b0110cks... IMHO I've never seen a car enhanced to that quality before. I particularly love the cf mirrors and the colour coding. But if was to be a real pain in the ass I'd have to say I'm not impressed with the stickers and the ally bee sting aerial. Right, feel better now I got that off my chest. :nerd:
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may I ask, whats SQ audio?
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I'm not into mods myself, purely because spare cash does not exist in our house... That said, I think RR's GTi is the dog's b0110cks... IMHO I've never seen a car enhanced to that quality before. I particularly love the cf mirrors and the colour coding. But if was to be a real pain in the ass I'd have to say I'm not impressed with the stickers and the ally bee sting aerial. Right, feel better now I got that off my chest. :nerd:
....Thanks for the compliment - It's appreciated. The stickers are a bit questionable but. The ali aerial is because the stock one fouls my up-and-over garage door! I guess I could have got one of those stubby black ones.
:cool:
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may I ask, whats SQ audio?
SQ = Sound Quality.
Basically its not SPL (sound pressure level(how loud it will go)) or Boom Tiss Boom Tiss boy racer style the image car audio has thanks to the gutter press.
Its recreating a high soundstage with solid image placments with good tonality as you would with a very good home audio system.
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may I ask, whats SQ audio?
SQ = Sound Quality.
Basically its not SPL (sound pressure level(how loud it will go)) or Boom Tiss Boom Tiss boy racer style the image car audio has thanks to the gutter press.
Its recreating a high soundstage with solid image placments with good tonality as you would with a very good home audio system.
Interesting - Where will you be going with this and at what cost ?
Cass
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Theres alot of myth and hype in audio of all descriptions (I now work in the industry its amazing what you find out on the inside :wink: ) Most of what people take as FACT is marketing men hype and its amazing how many magazines follow this hype to the letter and have done for decades without any scientific proof or and Engineering (Acoustic, Mecanical or electrical) to back it up.
Cost? I can get most stuff for personal use at cost+10% so around 45% off rrp, so when it comes to the time i want to change something i don't normally loose anything come resale time :wink: before anyone says im wasting money on mods lol. I admit i do loose money on the build mateials though lol.
Im currently waiting for the JBL MS8 processor to come out and one or two other bits and bobs i want to use.
The boot build is in progress and is a simple build like many others already shown here already, I want to keep the boot very practical and useable no painted fibreglass bathtubs here lol. So simply two builds one on either side of the boot one with the sub the other with the processor and amps as i said like others that have been on forums before with stealth covers so nothing stand out at the supermarket car parks etc.
The kickpanels are currently in prototype stage this is were i won't compromise the cars in danger here lol. Theres alot of not commonly known about acoustic theorys been used behind the sences on the frontstage that should improve things.
The key to good imaging is low PLDs (path length differences*) and very solid install with minimum vibration as vibrations cause sound at other frequencies that draw your attension to the mounting locations. Also high quality drive units with low harmonic distortion are needed if i could give one bit of advice to anyone whos building a system its get the best speakers you can don't spend lots of money on exotic amps, exotic wire, fancy source units spend it on things that make a measurable difference speakers and quality mounting.
*PLD In the frequncy range of ~100Hz to ~2Khz if you measure with a tape measure from the voice coil of the speaker on your right to your right ear, Then measure from the left speakers voice coil to your left ear. Then take the right measurment away from the left giving you a +# number if this number is less than 12 inch you stand a chance of getting some sort of image the lower this number the better. In otherwords the further away from the speakers you are the better chance you have of getting the system to image. Above ~2Khz you can compensate for a high PLD by using intensity differences in other words by angling the closest driver away from you more than the otherone. Don't worry to much about the height of drivers as the way our brain/ear system works we can fool it into thinking drive units are higher than they are thanks to us having ears on the side of our heads not on the top and bottom of it. :wink:
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OK, I'll chip into this one too!
Firstly, referring only to RedRobin's GTI, I had a look at it at Inters, on the Sunday (when it was dry). I personally don't think any of the major mods were at all chavy, and Robin would be the last person on the planet who you would descrive as a "chav" !!! I agree with other comments on the stickers - not really my taste. The carbon bits, I thought were lush - but it is not something I would personally consider, because I like my cars to have the "Q" car look.
Regarding the "mechanicals" on RRs car; the suspension, whilst I personaly feel no need to upgrade the springs and dampers, I fully support RRs stance that his kit is more "quality", and better engineered, compared to the "compromise" which all production cars are. However, I emphatically agree with better anti-roll bars. These are a component which can dramatically improve handling, without affecting the quality of the ride - so these are a big yesssssss.
The brakes - even on my standard GTI, I personally find them a little "weak", and lacking in feel. I agree that improvements to the brakes on a "tuned" car are a very wise option. Robin has taken quite an extreme choice, with AP racing discs, calipers, and braided hoses. Other less extreme alternatives to consider would be simply replacing the pads for a "fast road" type, (keeping the existing discs, calipers, etc) which provide greater resistance to fade. Or you could change all the flexy rubber brake hoses for braided steel items, which would give a noticeable improvement in "pedal feel" (but don't improve the overall efficiency). Another alternative would be to fit the slightly larger R32 brakes, keeping the OEM look. One thing I would categorically avoid, though, is any kind of "grooved" discs, as these provide no improvement in braking efficiency (dispite what the Max muppets magazines will try to tell you). If I were to change the OEM discs, but keeping the same size, then cross drilled discs would be the only consideration.
The quad exhaust, again personally not my thing, but they do look quality. However, the "aftermarket" exhausts can have a "bad name", and all seem to get tarnished with the same brush. However, Milltek are very, very different. Milltek exhausts are undoubtedly regarded as the leader in exhausts. Their build quality is truely superb, and the fit, finish and function are unparalled. Oh, the sound quality - Milltek produce a very "mature" and unoffensive sound. Yes, they are louder than standard zorsts, but they are NOT "in your face", or obtrusive. To the vast majority of other road users, they probably wouldn't notice any change from standard.
Remaps, again, I fully agree with RR. I'm sure everyone on this forum knows my postition on using only dedicated VAG chip tuners.
Right, that is my comments on RRs car - now for my own take, on my own cars.
I would only personally modify a car if it gave a quantifiable improvement over the standard set-up. I personally would not consider any mods to the bodywork (splitters, spoilers, carbon bits, etc), because I'm at that age where I prefer the "Q" car look.
The warranty issue is another area of concern to me, so I would avoid anything which could jeopardise the warranty. However, there does seem to be certain mods you can carry out, which have no effect on warranty, and the obvious is a cat-back Milltek exhaust. Milltek have been around for such a long time, they really are very well known throughout the Volkswagen Audi Group, and can be trusted not to jeopardise the warranty. I certainly wouldn't be as confident with a warranty claim if I had a Janspeed, or Pico, or other such chav-scum pipe. I also wouldn't be confident with any Superchips remap, and certainly not any of the "custom code" type remaps. It is proven, however, that Revo are a company which (some) stealers will still allow the warranty, and indeed, some stealers are actual Revo installers!
If we now look at my current and recent VAG fleet, my RS4 will probably get a Milltek - that's enough! Bollox - I lie - I will ditch the fcuking lethal Pirelli P-Zero Rossos, and get some boots which actually grip - you don't need to ask what! :wink:
My previous S4, I was desparately after improvements to the brakes, but sadly, most of the "info" came from the other side of the pond. There was no definative proof of any quantifiable improvements in braking efficiency. I was going to get the Milltek, but ordered my new RS4, so that was pointless. I changed the standard H7 main beams for some Philips Vision Plus (it had Xenons, but they were the old skool dip-only). I also got some silver OEM Hella rear light clusters, because they looked much better than the "red" clusters on my silver car. I wasn't after more power, so a remap, or any kind of induction kit or revised air filter was not even considered.
Now to the Golf (SWMBOs). I will put a Milltek on it, but it will be the traditional twin outlet, rather than the quad outlet. A "quality" remap will be on the cards too, but after the warranty has expired. I would be very interested in uprated anti-roll bars, and would strongly consider the R32 brakes, with braided hoses.
My two wheeled transport is rather different though. I have done quite a few mods to both my mountain bike, and my CBR600 !!! :wink:
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Cheers, TT :smiley:
Agreed about my brakes being slightly extreme but I helped AP and they made me a generous offer - It would have been rude to have said no. Superb brakes and have kept me safe on several occasions when some other muppet has done something stupid which I have needed to quickly avoid. Also extremely reliable for the pure fun of late braking into roundabouts. Reliable and smooth at high 130 mph autobahn speeds too.
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methinks this thread should be made a sticky just for TT's excellent post... I've copied and pasted it for myself :wink:
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One thing I would categorically avoid, though, is any kind of "grooved" discs, as these provide no improvement in braking efficiency (dispite what the Max muppets magazines will try to tell you).
....Reading this again I'm not sure about your comment on grooved discs, TT. I question it only because I have total faith in AP Racing's products - I know how extremely rigorously they are tested both on the bench 24/7 and in the field before being released. AP are part of Brembo and design and produce brakes and clutches for nearly all the major F1 teams, NASCAR, etc etc. The particular disc (part of a Big Brake kit put together specifically for the Mk5 GTI - hence my involvement) is well tested. However, I am not knowledgeable enough to say that TT is totally wrong about grooved discs.
(http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b308/RedRobin_05/AP_Brake1.jpg)
The other important factor is to match a brake pad as being appropriate to the disc material - It isn't just a matter of changing pads to something with a good reputation, it should be known to be suitable for your car's disc. Also type of brake fluid is a contributing factor to good brakes. AP offer a complete kit.
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I think the modding i will do will be slight. insurance being one of the issues why.. but i will be considering a exhaust (miltek as u all say there the best) and forge DV. i MAY change the rims at some point but notreally thought the need yet. other than that i dont intend of changing anything.
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methinks this thread should be made a sticky just for TT's excellent post...
:smiley: :smiley:
I've copied and pasted it for myself :wink:
<cough> as long as there is no plagiary <cough> :wink: :wink: :grin: :grin:
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....Reading this again I'm not sure about your comment on grooved discs, TT.
OK, thought provoking discussion is very good! :smiley:
I question it only because I have total faith in AP Racing's products - I know how extremely rigorously they are tested both on the bench 24/7 and in the field before being released.
I fully agree with that.
AP are part of Brembo and design and produce brakes and clutches for nearly all the major F1 teams, NASCAR, etc etc.
Ohhh - someone's been telling you porkies!
Whilst both AP Racing, and Brembo design and develop brakes and clutches for all aspects of the motorsport arena, that is where the similarity ends. AP Racing and Brembo are NOT connected in any ownership way at all.
AP Racing are a very well established high performance division of AP automotive products, who are based in Coventry. AP have a considerable span of history. However, whilst their general automotive division may produce OEM parts, their Racing division has no such OEM ties (with any of the mainstream car manufacturers, like Ford, GM, VAG etc).
Brembo are a completey separate, privately owned Italian brake specialist (who also own Marchesini wheels - muts nuts motorcycle rims!), and have strong OEM ties. Indeed, Brembo stuff is standard on all Audi RS models, Lamborghini, Porsche and Ferrari.
If I had to pin my flag to the mast, and state who makes the absolute best brakes, it would have to be Brembo - even though it pains me to think an Italian company is better than an English company! Oh, Brembo products are also German TuV approved too.
The particular disc (part of a Big Brake kit put together specifically for the Mk5 GTI - hence my involvement) is well tested. However, I am not knowledgeable enough to say that TT is totally wrong about grooved discs.
I'm not saying grooved discs are bad. It is simply that they have no design function, which will either increase, or maintains brake efficiency.
The discs are generally grooved for one simple purpose - STYLE, and nothing else.
If you believe the tosh that gets drivelled out in the mags like Max Power, they claim that the grooves clear the gasses generated in the pad at the moment of brake fade. This is pure nonsence, and has no engineering proof! The centrifugal effect of the rotation of the disc, coupled with the airflow over the general brake area due to forward motion is what cools discs and pads. Under very extreme conditions, when brake fade does occur, the only proven method which helps dissipate the gasses is cross drilling. This allows the gasses to "bleed" into the central vents of the disc, whereby the centrifugal effects will help "pull" the gasses more quickly away from the pad surface.
What AP Racing have done with their "grooving" (just like Brembo, too), is to simply address the "style" or desireabilty, in the same manner in which they paint their calipers bright colours, such as red or yellow. In terms of painting, the only colours proven to help dissipate heat quicker are darker colours, such as black or dark grey. It is for that reason why Audi, with their big, heavy RS cars (and also the R8) have black calipers, or anthracite calipers on the ceramic brake options.
(http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t108/Teutonic_Tamer/Audi%20R8/DSC00112.jpg)
(http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t108/Teutonic_Tamer/my%20B7%20RS4%20saloon/bd220cd0.jpg)
The painting of calipers on Porsches, either the "big reds" on the iron discs, or "yellows" for their ceramics, are possible because Porsches are generally much lighter than the "uber" saloons and Avants from Audi. Porsche brakes tend to be much more "over-engineered" when compared to Audis, too - which explains why Audi need the darker colour paints, whereas Porsche can get away with more "style over function".
to be continued . . .
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continued . . .
The other important factor is to match a brake pad as being appropriate to the disc material - It isn't just a matter of changing pads to something with a good reputation, it should be known to be suitable for your car's disc.
Hmmm - that is less critical than you would think. Afterall, all "metalic" car brake discs are made from cast iron. OK, some may have varying content of carbon (Tarox black diamond come to mind), but they are all basically iron. Discs on motorcycles are quite different, many being made of steel, rather than iron - hence the need for appropriate pad material.
Regarding car pads, it is not uncommon to find different pad manufacturers approching performance pads from different perspectives. Some rely on kevlar, some rely on copper powder, some use copper strands, other metalic substances, and even ceramic materials too. Regarding "makes", well, Pagid, Bendix, EBC, Mintex and Ferodo - all produce performance pads, and what may work for one person, another person may not like.
Also type of brake fluid is a contributing factor to good brakes.
Another myth. Any decent DOT4 fluid is satisfactory - just change it at least every 2years! If you track your car, then an annual brake fluid change with a quality DOT4 will suffice.
Do NOT, under any circumstances, use the silicone based DOT5 on any road car! It is horrendous stuff, and should only be used in propper race cars or bikes, who have their brake systems completely stripped and rebuilt after every race meeting.
If you really are desparate for a better brake fluid with a higher boiling point, then only use a glycol based DOT5.1. However, if you were at the stage where you were regularly boiling fresh DOT4, I would personally consider improved air ducting, to improve wheel area cooling! :nerd:
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TT - I'm afraid that some of what you have posted is directly contradictory to what I have understood from a Senior Engineer at AP.
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TT - I'm afraid that some of what you have posted is directly contradictory to what I have understood from a Senior Engineer at AP.
What, in particular, don't you agree with? :smiley:
Oh, and BTW, unlike the engineer at AP, I am not trying to sell you anything! :wink: :smiley:
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I thought the groves on discs were to constantly scrape the pad of the old material so you effectively get a nice fresh clean brake pad every time :undecided: they certainly made a HUGE difference to my mk1's brakes :wink:
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TT - I'm afraid that some of what you have posted is directly contradictory to what I have understood from a Senior Engineer at AP.
What, in particular, don't you agree with? :smiley:
Oh, and BTW, unlike the engineer at AP, I am not trying to sell you anything! :wink: :smiley:
....I don't wish to go into the details of my relationship with AP but suffice it to say that I am not subject to sales efforts and neither do I gain from sales of their products.
AP's Mk5 GTI big brake kit package has included conscious consideration of disc material, grooves or not, pad substance, fluid type (amongst many other things). I am not an engineer but various conversations with someone at AP with over 30 years experience specialising in brake technology plus my own experience of how well those brakes actually work on a car plus many many other driver's assessments of AP Racing's brakes, don't cause me to question what he has told me. Consequently, T_T, I don't entirely agree with your posts about disc grooves, pad to disc material considerations, or benefits of fluid - In the case of AP Racing's product.
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A mate works at AP in Coventry, they make brakes and clutches for most of the F1 teams, I think they know what they are doing :smiley:
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I thought the groves on discs were to constantly scrape the pad of the old material so you effectively get a nice fresh clean brake pad every time :undecided: they certainly made a HUGE difference to my mk1's brakes :wink:
Yet another meaningless theory!
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TT - I'm afraid that some of what you have posted is directly contradictory to what I have understood from a Senior Engineer at AP.
What, in particular, don't you agree with? :smiley:
Oh, and BTW, unlike the engineer at AP, I am not trying to sell you anything! :wink: :smiley:
....I don't wish to go into the details of my relationship with AP but suffice it to say that I am not subject to sales efforts and neither do I gain from sales of their products.
Oh, I'm not asking you to. It was partly a "tounge in cheek" comment. But it was also a basic "business" comment too, insomuch as AP are a commercial company, and need to sell stuff to make a profit. Part of one company achieving greater sales over a competator lies with the "visual appeal" or aesthetics, as well as functionality. Indeed, if aesthetics don't come into it, then no one would ever buy an Audi A3, and instead we'd all be driving Kia Rios, or other such hideous crap.
And it didn't even cross my mind that you were "associated" in any way with AP.
AP's Mk5 GTI big brake kit package has included conscious consideration of disc material, grooves or not, pad substance,
I agree. But you miss the point. Part of the "concious consideration" will be primarily with function, and another consideration will be the general asthetics, ie, making them visually appealing. I stand by my opinion that grooved discs offer absolutely no increase in efficiency. Put it another way, if grooves DID offer increases in braking efficiency, why arn't grooves used in Formula 1, or BTCC, WTC, DTM, LeMans endurance racers, GT racers, Formula Ford, A1 GP, Indy Cars, MotoGP, WSB, BSB, etc? Why arn't they used on Porsches, Bugatti, Bentley, Audi R8. I really think I have proven my case. Grooves are just added soley for purpose of style, and nothing else.
fluid type (amongst many other things).
Strongly disagree. Simple hydraulics. All fluids are in-compressible. Water, even urine would transmit the same force as old skool DOT3, the now common DOT4, or indeed any of the more fancy DOT5 and DOT5.1. The only advantage DOT5.1 has over DOT4 is a very slightly higher dry boiling point, and a noticeably better wet boiling point. However, the wet boiling point shouldn't even be an issue, if you have your brake fluid changed at the recommended intervals. Regarding the silicone based DOT5, well it wouldn't surprise me if it were actually made illegal for road use. A simple test on the MoT would detect that. Silicone brake fluids really are the work of the devil in road cars, and can cause considerably more hassle than they are worth.
To the "average" motorist, these fancy brake fluids are just snake oils.
I am not an engineer but various conversations with someone at AP with over 30 years experience specialising in brake technology plus my own experience of how well those brakes actually work on a car plus many many other driver's assessments of AP Racing's brakes, don't cause me to question what he has told me.
So, basically, you are an interested and enthusiastic bystander. Am I correct in assuming you have no qualifications in Automotive Engineering, or Automotive Maintenance.
And, with the greatest of respect, Robin, when have I ever questioned the efficacy of AP Racings brakes? For the record, I actually praised them very highly! So please don't accuse me of "questioning" the efficiency and efficacy. I have merely stated a point of engineering fact on the grooves on discs, but at no time did I state that the grooves detracted in any performance in any way!
Oh, by the way, one of my college modules was actually set and examined by AP from Coventry, and I still have all their handouts and tutorials in my loft somewhere - so I am more than aware of the fundamentals of engineering, and particulalry the aproach which AP as a company take.
Consequently, T_T, I don't entirely agree with your posts about disc grooves, pad to disc material considerations, or benefits of fluid - In the case of AP Racing's product.
I'm not saying we should all agree on everything. However, if you are unable to offer specific information then we will reach a stalemate. Just like other members of this forum, I am here to learn too! But if you, for whatever reason, fail to offer specific "counter-claims", to specific areas that you claim to disagree with, then I'm quite sure that it will be more than just myself that will be left with an element of suspicion or confusion, when you rebut my opinion, but don't offer anything in return.
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A mate works at AP in Coventry, they make brakes and clutches for most of the F1 teams, I think they know what they are doing :smiley:
Actually, APs share of the F1 parc is actually quite small, when specifically regarding brakes. Brembo has by far the greatest share of F1 contracts. :nerd:
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T_T, I think you misunderstand me. Perhaps I did not make it clear enough that I am not qualified in any branch of engineering or even related subjects, and as such I personally am not qualified to debate/challenge your earlier comments in detail. I was merely pointing out that I have great faith in AP's big brake kit for the GTI and their reasons for the design in spite of your comments. However, I take note of and respect your opinions and comments.
I can only report things as I percieve them, whether that be correct or incorrect information. It is up to others to make up their own minds rather than take anything either you or I write as gospel. I really don't wish to enter into a more involved debate on this subject. As far as I'm concerned, I have faith in my AP brakes and that's all that matters. The rest becomes academic. :cool:
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T_T, I think you misunderstand me. Perhaps I did not make it clear enough that I am not qualified in any branch of engineering or even related subjects, and as such I personally am not qualified to debate/challenge your earlier comments in detail. I was merely pointing out that I have great faith in AP's big brake kit for the GTI and their reasons for the design in spite of your comments. However, I take note of and respect your opinions and comments.
OK. I hope you understand my reasoning, purely and simply to explore "alternative angles" of the subject in question. I don't wish to be disrespectful to you Robin, nor to AP. Like I have said before, AP make superb products.
I can only report things as I percieve them, whether that be correct or incorrect information. It is up to others to make up their own minds rather than take anything either you or I write as gospel. I really don't wish to enter into a more involved debate on this subject. As far as I'm concerned, I have faith in my AP brakes and that's all that matters. The rest becomes academic. :cool:
A very valid, and mature statement. Probably time to put this thread to bed! :wink:
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Sorry - just picked this thread up!!
Why dont i mod? simple - i cant afford to!!!! :cry:
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Sorry - just picked this thread up!!
Why dont i mod? simple - i cant afford to!!!! :cry:
+1
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wahey 1st post.
I didn't start modding till later in life 30ish, In November i take delivery of an Edition 30 and i have plans for it already, the exterior will remain largley OEM as i think the car looks good enough as it is, exhaust will more than likely to be a return to Milltek having had one on my mk4 gti, non resonated mind as the prev non resonated one had a rather annoying boom when passing the 80mph mark.Induction will probably be a Carbonio or Forge, i will utilise my Forge short shifter currently fitted to my MKII Leon staying with Forge it could see the addition of the new FMFSITV and then look for a suitable 'switchable' map poss GIAC.All this will after 1500 miles.I will also have a Koni FSD suspension kit that is again fitted to the Leon, but the Eibach springs will not fit the Golf but if the ride is ok then thats going to be sold.
Red Robin your GTi looks good as do a good few others on here, while i dont like the max power brigade cars its each to their own i say, but there does seem to be some good advice on here and some varied opinions.but those crazy yanks they are into modding in a big way not like us more reserved Brits.
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A Warm Welcome to this forum, k4ith :smiley:.
I didn't start modding until I was 58yo! I'd approach the idea of GIAC with great caution - Probably more suitable for the American cars. Also, I haven't heard much good said about their sole UK distributors. Revo, for example, are far more established with their tuning of UK GTI's.
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Thanks R/R
reason i mentioned GIAC is that i have used Star Performance for both my last cars and they sell GIAC plus another tuner/maper who i cant remember of the top of my head but they were TUV approved and they did the maps for my MK4 GTi, I looked at Revo but the only dealer was Drivers in Glasgow and when i called about mapping the MK4 they weren't exactly forthcoming and cust serv/attitude plays a big part with me that and the fact they didn't have a rolling road to compare before and after with.I also here good things about Custom Code but again its the lack of quality tuners up in Scotland.
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Thanks R/R
reason i mentioned GIAC is that i have used Star Performance for both my last cars and they sell GIAC plus another tuner/maper who i cant remember of the top of my head but they were TUV approved and they did the maps for my MK4 GTi, I looked at Revo but the only dealer was Drivers in Glasgow and when i called about mapping the MK4 they weren't exactly forthcoming and cust serv/attitude plays a big part with me that and the fact they didn't have a rolling road to compare before and after with.I also here good things about Custom Code but again its the lack of quality tuners up in Scotland.
GIAC certainly wont be TuV approved, as they are an American company, and TuV is a German standard. AFAIK, the only TuV approved VAG tuner is Oettinger http://www.rsdcars-uk.co.uk/Oettinger.htm.
Do NOT go with ANY American chip, as their engine management is completely different to European set-ups. They don't have the stratified mode of FSI enabled in US/Cdn, because they have shyte fuel. There are also concerns that "tuned" FSI engines in the states are now suffering from excessive engine wear, due to overfuelling and washing the oil off the cylinder bores (concrete evidence that the stratified mode is disabled). :smug:
I would also strongly recommend against any kind of "custom" re-map - too many pitfalls. Ask, if you want to know more, but I'll reply later, as I'm hungry, and SWMBO calls! :rolleyes:
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GIAC certainly wont be TuV approved, as they are an American company, and TuV is a German standard. AFAIK, the only TuV approved VAG tuner is Oettinger http://www.rsdcars-uk.co.uk/Oettinger.htm.
Do NOT go with ANY American chip, as their engine management is completely different to European set-ups. They don't have the stratified mode of FSI enabled in US/Cdn, because they have shyte fuel. There are also concerns that "tuned" FSI engines in the states are now suffering from excessive engine wear, due to overfuelling and washing the oil off the cylinder bores (concrete evidence that the stratified mode is disabled). :smug:
I would also strongly recommend against any kind of "custom" re-map - too many pitfalls. Ask, if you want to know more, but I'll reply later, as I'm hungry, and SWMBO calls! :rolleyes:
....I agree with T_T (yet again! But we don't always agree :smiley:).
Regal Autosport, Southampton are GIAC agents in England. I've yet to hear good things about them and I certainly have been very unimpressed by their poor customer service.
Those American boys have leapt straight into very extensive modding and remapping, so it sounds as if they might be in for some nasty surprises.
T_T, I've got to ask you: What does "SWMBO" stand for? I can't work it out but expect it's very obvious! :smiley:
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she who must be obeyed
so who do you recommend?
i have heard some bad stuff about superchips and have noticed from your posts TT that your not their No1 fan LOL
some folks advise their bluefin corrupts if a dealer flashes the ECU while in on a service.
The reason i mentioned TUV was that as a standard for Germany i expect it to be high, could be wrong?
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she who must be obeyed
so who do you recommend?
i have heard some bad stuff about superchips and have noticed from your posts TT that your not their No1 fan LOL
some folks advise their bluefin corrupts if a dealer flashes the ECU while in on a service.
The reason i mentioned TUV was that as a standard for Germany i expect it to be high, could be wrong?
Hi,
New on here and don't have a Golf GTi, but do have a MK2 Leon Cupra. I was also planning to have a GIAC map done by Star Performance in Fife. However this has worried me somewhat. I may well hold off tuning until a few more of these have been done.
I guess it would be worth asking Star if the GIAC maps are TUV approved Keith and to see if the stratified mode is enabled on the maps they provide.
One thing I do know about remaps are that as time goes on, better code is developed, hence the reason my AUQ 1.8T with an exhaust managed over 240bhp and earlier remapped 1.8T's with the same mods managed only 220 or 230 odd.
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you would think GIAC would realise this and alter it for the European market.
a lot of the MKII Cupra guys seem to be leaning to Revo at the moment.my car will not arrive till Nov so looking to wait till Jan/Feb 2008 so hopefully there will be more info buy then.
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you would think GIAC would realise this and alter it for the European market.
Exactly what I thought.
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TT - Think your services may be required on cupra.net!
www.seatcupra.net/forums/showthread.php?t=137823
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....I agree with T_T (yet again! But we don't always agree :smiley:).
This is getting to be a habit! :grin:
T_T, I've got to ask you: What does "SWMBO" stand for? I can't work it out but expect it's very obvious! :smiley:
She Who Must Be Obeyed - wife, girlfriend, daughter ( :shocked: ), etc
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so who do you recommend?
i have heard some bad stuff about superchips and have noticed from your posts TT that your not their No1 fan LOL
some folks advise their bluefin corrupts if a dealer flashes the ECU while in on a service.
You are spot on - I would NEVER recommend Superchips. OK, some people may be happy with their Bluefin, there are proven cases where Superchips remaps blow turbos. To use a simple, and loosely related analogy <sp??> - if you regularly blast up and down the motorways at 100mph, pass a copper, but don't get caught and knicked - that then doesn't make 100mph a legal speed. In the same way that a number of people may be happy with their Supersh!ts stuff - it doesn't make it the best remap for the GTI (or any VAG for that matter).
Regarding the "dealer" issue, two things, firstly, any remap from any supplier will be overwritten by the dealer during routine maintentance or warranty work, if an updated factory map has been made available (the better VAG tuners are aware of this, and will arrange for your remap to be re-instated after any dealer over-writes). Secondly, there is a "flash count" stored on the ECU, which the stealer will check, particularly for any warranty work. If the cars own flash count doesn't match the factory details, then bye-bye warranty. Bluefin are hugely affected by this issue. :smug:
Regarding recommendations - well I'm not going to recommend anyone specifically, but I would strongly advise that you only use one of the long established dedicated VAG tuners, who include Revo, MTM, and Oettinger.
The reason i mentioned TUV was that as a standard for Germany i expect it to be high, could be wrong?
The TuV is simply a German "quality" standard, similar to the "CE" mark, or the obsolete British Standard Kitemark. The TuV is regarded as an extremely stringent standard, however, just because a product has a TuV (or any other standards) approval, it doesn't actually mean that the product in question is better than a non-approved product. Take ring spanners - you can get TuV ring spanners from Lidl, but are they better than non-TuV approved SnapOn ring spanners??
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New on here and don't have a Golf GTi, but do have a MK2 Leon Cupra. I was also planning to have a GIAC map done by Star Performance in Fife. However this has worried me somewhat. I may well hold off tuning until a few more of these have been done.
I guess it would be worth asking Star if the GIAC maps are TUV approved Keith and to see if the stratified mode is enabled on the maps they provide.
GIAC maps are definately NOT EU based maps, and as such, do NOT have stratified mode enabled. If you want to strip down your FSI engine every 10k miles, rebore, new pistons and rings, and rebuild (OK, slightly extreme, but still possible) - then go for GIAC - however, my personal advice is DON'T GIAC!
As quoted in another post, even if GIAC were TuV approved (which I very, very strongly doubt), it still would not make the remap any better.
One thing I do know about remaps are that as time goes on, better code is developed, hence the reason my AUQ 1.8T with an exhaust managed over 240bhp and earlier remapped 1.8T's with the same mods managed only 220 or 230 odd.
Differences in ambient temperatures, more miles on the clock mean a "looser" engine which develops more power, and so on . . . that really isn't conclusive of anything.
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you would think GIAC would realise this and alter it for the European market.
Why the fcuk should they? Afterall, most yanks cant even spot their own country on a map, so getting them to understand that Europe even exists will be a major hurdle. :smug:
Don't forget, it was nigh-on soley down to the yanks sheer arrogance and muppetery which caused the 1.8 20VT sludge issues, and gave VAG such a bad name! :angry: :angry:
a lot of the MKII Cupra guys seem to be leaning to Revo at the moment.my car will not arrive till Nov so looking to wait till Jan/Feb 2008 so hopefully there will be more info buy then.
They are learning well, then! :smiley: :smiley:
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TT - Think your services may be required on cupra.net!
www.seatcupra.net/forums/showthread.php?t=137823
I haven't got time to slave away on another forum!
However, can you ask them to edit the original post, and give me credit for the comments, and also post the full URL (http://www.golfgtiforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=62109.0).
Regarding post #3 on SCN, the 1.8 20VT can better handle overfuelling because it is NOT FSI, ie, on the 1.8 the fuel is injected conventionally into the inlet manifold, and mixed with the air BEFORE entering the combustion chamber, whereas FSI engines inject neat petrol directly into the combustion chamber. Any overfuelling of any direct injection petrol engine (FSI, or the Mitsubishi GDI) will dramatically wash the oil from the cylinder bores.
Moving onto post #4, a UK code may have been sent to the US - but which code, from which engine, from which model year, from which manufacturer software revision ????? Then there is the issue that US fuel is very different from ours. And finally, how the fcuk can they properly rolling road test their so called "UK" maps on a US spec car, with US fuels. I rest my case, your honour!
Staying with post 4 (and 5), US fuel is VERY different to UK and EU fuels (which is why they have very different ECU maps to start with - doh). It has fcuk all to do with the different ways of measuring octane ratings, but has everything to do with the fact they do NOT use low sulphur fuels, let alone the "ultra low sulphur" fuels which are required buy the FSI. Changing oil more frequently on a modified car is always wise, but it will NOT prevent the effects of over-fuelling, and oil dilution, which is also regualrly reported in the US on FSI engines.
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T_T, I've got to ask you: What does "SWMBO" stand for? I can't work it out but expect it's very obvious! :smiley:
She Who Must Be Obeyed - wife, girlfriend, daughter ( :shocked: ), etc
....In my case, being divorced my SWMBO is my 16yo daughter who lives with me.
I must add SWMBO to my vocabulary along with Donkey Power :grin:
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Changing oil more frequently on a modified car is always wise, but it will NOT prevent the effects of over-fuelling, and oil dilution, which is also regualrly reported in the US on FSI engines.
....I'm assuming that a Revo (Stage1) ECU remap takes the dangers of over-fuelling into account as Revo are strongly reputed to know what they are doing.
So far on my modded GTI (39k miles and Revo'd at 23k miles) has only been having it's oil+filter changed on 'longlife' service intervals, so your comment attracts my attention. What would you recommend please, T_T ? All my 'hardware' performance mods were done one by one over time but long before the remap. I say "all" but should exclude the Neuspeed Discharge&Charge pipes and Forge DV.
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i personally dont see the problem with modding, i dont like it loud but like it to look good and go fast, I just had my gti remapped by celtictuning.co.uk, they stated that they put 65hp ontop of its hp, so should be running at 265hp just from a remap. i also has new susspension fitted and audi A5 nuvolarai alloys, all i want now is colour coded bumpers (ed30) and miltex catback exhaust, im worried that this will make it lous tough, what do you think?
(http://DSC00261)
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(http://C:\Documents and Settings\Joe Hargreaves\Desktop\DSC00261.JPG)
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Changing oil more frequently on a modified car is always wise, but it will NOT prevent the effects of over-fuelling, and oil dilution, which is also regualrly reported in the US on FSI engines.
....I'm assuming that a Revo (Stage1) ECU remap takes the dangers of over-fuelling into account as Revo are strongly reputed to know what they are doing.
I think you may be confused by the simplistic term of "overfuelling". There is nothing wrong with provding excess fuel at certain limited times when the engine needs it (during cold starts), or when it can use the excess fuel (during high load and hard acceleration).
The specific issues with the FSI and US maps relates to overfuelling when it can NOT be used. The stratified mode (which is disabled in US/Cdn cars) operates during light engine loads and part throttle. At this stage of operation, the engine is designed to operate on a very lean fuel mixture. This creates exceedingly high operating temperatures in the combustion chamber (this is why Ultra Low Sulphur petrol is required), but because this is still within the design specification, the ignition timing, and more importantly, the fuel injection timing are modified by the ECU to cope with this specific scenario. However, on the yankee maps, because the stratifed mode is disabled, a "conventional" amount of fuel is injected (but the standard yankee ECU is designed to cope). However, this is not ideal, because fuel is injected directly into the combustion chamber, and any critical excesses of fuel will wash the oil film off the cylinder bore. Now compound this issue with a US remap, which will obviously by supplying more fuel than standard (to cope with the supposed increase in power from the remap) and it goes beyond the critical over supply of fuel = recipee for dramatic engine wear.
So, to answer your question, I don't think you need to worry about a Revo map providing excess fuel during periods when the engine can use it.
So far on my modded GTI (39k miles and Revo'd at 23k miles) has only been having it's oil+filter changed on 'longlife' service intervals, so your comment attracts my attention. What would you recommend please, T_T ? All my 'hardware' performance mods were done one by one over time but long before the remap. I say "all" but should exclude the Neuspeed Discharge&Charge pipes and Forge DV.
OK, I have stated this elsewhere, but allow me to refresh.
Firstly, the LongLife serving regime should be separated from the LongLife oils.
LongLife servicing regime
The actual LongLife serving regime really should not be used on any high performance, high revving petrol engine. Although the LongLife regime was introduced across virtually all VAG cars in 2001, with virtually no restrictions on useage, as time has progressed, and presumably VAG have gained "real-world" data, then the LongLife "requirements" have changed quite noticeably. From 2006, the detailed requirements for LongLife were notably "downgraded".
This is the actual list of requirements for LongLife regime:
- Mileage: more than 30 miles per day
- Type of Journey: Motorway and main road driving. Mainly longer distance journeys. Constant speeds.
- Conditions: Normal engine loading - eg, with little or no towing, with little or no hill climbs. Normal vehicle loading.
- Driving style: Moderate acceleration, moderate braking, engine revs mainly below 3000rpm
You need to be able to comply with all those requirements. If you cant, then you should not even consider LongLife.
LongLife oils
LongLife oils are a specific high grade fully synthetic. They undergo all the "standard" oil tests, but also have to undergo more rigourous tests. The two crucial areas are the "duration" tests, and HTHS tests. The duration tests demand that the oil can last over twice as long as the ACEA requirements for conventional drain high performance engine oils. The HTHS is more intersting, and relevent to turbos. HTHS stands for High Temperature High Shear, and basically places an additional, extremely rigorous test at 150deg C, whereas conventional ACEA tests only go up to 100deg C.
So it can be deduced that LongLife oils are of considerably higher quality than even the best conventional fully synthetic oils.
My recommendation for "modified" cars
Now, to the point of modifications, particularly engine based mods. My advice is simple. Do NOT use the LongLife servicing regime, and only use the conventional fixed interval "Time and Distance" servicing regimes. However, please DO continue to use the higher quality LongLife oil, and not the lesser quality Time and Distance oils.
Still awake at the back . . . . :smiley:
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i personally dont see the problem with modding, i dont like it loud but like it to look good and go fast, I just had my gti remapped by celtictuning.co.uk, they stated that they put 65hp ontop of its hp, so should be running at 265hp just from a remap. i also has new susspension fitted and audi A5 nuvolarai alloys, all i want now is colour coded bumpers (ed30) and miltex catback exhaust, im worried that this will make it lous tough, what do you think?
Is this just a statement, or do you wish for us to comment?
BTW, you can't upload pictures off your own PC - you need to use a remote photo host, such as Photobucket.com
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....High quality help and info as usual, T_T :smiley: Thanks.
I'll talk to my VW dealer tomorrow and get things changed. My tuner JKM is recommending I change oil every 10k miles.
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One of the nice features of the GIAC map is that it does not increase the flash count when the programme on the ECU is changed from stock to mapped mode.
Does the switchable Revo system increase the flash counts or not?
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One of the nice features of the GIAC map is that it does not increase the flash count when the programme on the ECU is changed from stock to mapped mode.
Does the switchable Revo system increase the flash counts or not?
....I have no idea if the Revo increases the flash count or not and furthermore I don't care. Why? - Because I think it's foolish to try and hide a remap. I discussed having a remap with my VW dealer and my insurer before I had it done. I'd rather have everyone on the same team as myself.
I always switch to stock map for the dealer to be able to work on my car in a state which he is familiar with and trained for.
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I actually think that hiding it is a good policy - My stealer told me how one of his customers went on about how a remap transformed his car, and the amount of problems it had that could be associated with a remap (potentially) invalidated his warranty.
That plus it is pretty obvious when you drive a 310+bhp in to a garage for a service that is only supposed to have 240bhp - Its not like they are not going to notice the extra 1/3 power.
My last car had a switchable map and it did increase the flash counter and had loads of warranty repairs, but they never once said anything about the number of flash counts and they never had any hint of it being tuned.
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I actually think that hiding it is a good policy
Why on earth do you think that! :shocked:
That statement must be THE most stupidest thing ever posted on GolfGTIforum !!! :rolleyes:
My stealer told me how one of his customers went on about how a remap transformed his car, and the amount of problems it had that could be associated with a remap (potentially) invalidated his warranty.
That plus it is pretty obvious when you drive a 310+bhp in to a garage for a service that is only supposed to have 240bhp - Its not like they are not going to notice the extra 1/3 power.
And it will also be pretty obvious too, if you start to lie, or hide the truth from the stealer. I know that stealers always seem to get low opinions, but that is absolutely no excuse for us to treat them in that manner. Afterall, they are the ones who will be working on our cars.
Oh, another thing. Most dealer techies wont actually see any of the "high performance" models on a "day-to-day" basis. Their bread and butter work will no doubt be 1.9TDIs - so when they do get the occasional Cupra, weather it has 240 or 310PS, they will simply think "this goes like fcuk" !!
My last car had a switchable map and it did increase the flash counter and had loads of warranty repairs, but they never once said anything about the number of flash counts and they never had any hint of it being tuned.
And ?????? What, exactly is that meant to tell us?
Are you also going to tell us that you drive at 100mph on the m-ways everyday, but havn't been caught, so it must be legal! :rolleyes:
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That statement must be THE most stupidest thing ever posted on GolfGTIforum !!! :rolleyes:
I guess you missed the bloke who cut down his springs then :grin:
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I actually think that hiding it is a good policy
Why on earth do you think that! :shocked:
That statement must be THE most stupidest thing ever posted on GolfGTIforum !!! :rolleyes:
Not very good with the English language then mate? The most stupidest is it?! :grin:
Well opinions are like assholes and some stink, but my point was that if you don't go blowing or showing, at the very least the Stealer is not going to get a whiff of the fact the car has been played or tinkered with. That is worth something to a lot more than just me.
I am going to be doing some research in to this when time allows as I am keen to map my car, but rather than deal with heresay from someone off a car forum, I would prefer to deal with fact.
I also plan to see what GIAC have to see about some of your comments to see if there is any truth in them.
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but my point was that if you don't go blowing or showing, at the very least the Stealer is not going to get a whiff of the fact the car has been played or tinkered with. That is worth something to a lot more than just me.
....You are, of course, entitled to think and do as you please but just because there are a lot of others (according to you) who would hide "the fact the car has been played or tinkered with" it doesn't make doing so a wise course of action. The words "played or tinkered with" say it all and it's people like you with such attitudes which understandably make VW's attempts to give us good service more difficult.
Do you also advocate hiding "the fact the car has been played or tinkered with" from your insurer? What's the betting?....
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"People in glass houses" and all that :wink: "heresay" is actually "hearsay" :wink:
Getting back on topic, I would prefer to be open and honest about any mods I undertake... saves any grief at a later stage. Mind you, the only mods I plan are an Edition 30 front, colour coding of the side skirts and perhaps fitting a full milltek when the exhaust is on its way out... but not before.
Not very good with the English language then mate? The most stupidest is it?! :grin:
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I actually think that hiding it is a good policy
Why on earth do you think that! :shocked:
That statement must be THE most stupidest thing ever posted on GolfGTIforum !!! :rolleyes:
Not very good with the English language then mate?
English language may not my strongest attribute, but I don't think I'm too bad. It does, however, show you have to stoop so low to the gutter, in trying to exert your indefensable comments.
However, I am a very highly qualified Motor Vehicle Technician, and a very experienced "spanner monkey" too. So I think I'm just slightly better positioned to voice my opinion, compared to you. :smug:
I am also lead to believe other regular members of this, and other fourms, appreciate that my posts are based on valuble experience and knowledge, and that I am generally trustworthy, and don't post bollox. Or maybe my specticles are the wrong shade?
Oh, and I don't know where you got the idea from that I was your "mate"!
Well opinions are like assholes and some stink,
You should know, because it appears you like burying your head up your own ar$ehole, when you don't want to listen or accept what others have to say! :smug:
but my point was that if you don't go blowing or showing, at the very least the Stealer is not going to get a whiff of the fact the car has been played or tinkered with.
WRONG - the stealer WILL know the car has been "tampered" with. Just like the stealer will be able to detect if non-VW approved engine oil is used.
Can I suggest you remove those very restrictive blinkers you appear to be wearing. They really are only meant for creatures which have an extremely limited intelligence, such as horses.
That is worth something to a lot more than just me.
Explain.
I am going to be doing some research in to this when time allows as I am keen to map my car, but rather than deal with heresay from someone off a car forum, I would prefer to deal with fact.
So, where to you propose to get your "facts" from, then? :rolleyes:
I also plan to see what GIAC have to see about some of your comments to see if there is any truth in them.
And . . . we all await with baited breath.
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but my point was that if you don't go blowing or showing, at the very least the Stealer is not going to get a whiff of the fact the car has been played or tinkered with. That is worth something to a lot more than just me.
....You are, of course, entitled to think and do as you please but just because there are a lot of others (according to you) who would hide "the fact the car has been played or tinkered with" it doesn't make doing so a wise course of action. The words "played or tinkered with" say it all and it's people like you with such attitudes which understandably make VW's attempts to give us good service more difficult.
Do you also advocate hiding "the fact the car has been played or tinkered with" from your insurer? What's the betting?....
Well said Robin. Very mature and appropriate comments.
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"People in glass houses" and all that :wink: "heresay" is actually "hearsay" :wink:
Not very good with the English language then mate? The most stupidest is it?! :grin:
Sweet revenge! Well-spotted, thanks.
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Can I suggest you remove those very restrictive blinkers you appear to be wearing. They really are only meant for creatures which have an extremely limited intelligence, such as horses.
....Very much off topic (I think! :smiley:) but having worked with and befriended horses for many years I can say that their 'intelligence' is sometimes astounding. Donkeys, on the other hand....
I totally see the reason for comparison though, T_T :smiley:
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TT - Think your services may be required on cupra.net!
www.seatcupra.net/forums/showthread.php?t=137823
I haven't got time to slave away on another forum!
However, can you ask them to edit the original post, and give me credit for the comments, and also post the full URL (http://www.golfgtiforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=62109.0).
Moving onto post #4, a UK code may have been sent to the US - but which code, from which engine, from which model year, from which manufacturer software revision ????? Then there is the issue that US fuel is very different from ours. And finally, how the fcuk can they properly rolling road test their so called "UK" maps on a US spec car, with US fuels. I rest my case, your honour!
I am the post of post 4 in answer to the question the ECU code was for a Leon Cupra one of the first UK 2L TFSI models. The code was sent the US tweaked sent back and map tested on the UK car on the rollers and on the road and datalogged and the map sent back for more tweaking this was over the period of a week or two I beleave. As you say impossible to road test in US, now the main point to be made at the time (may even still be the case) there was not a factory VAG car that has the engine/turbo combination in the USA so how as you state can GIAC use USA code for it ??
Also the GIAC map that is provided for the 185 model was developed using the dealers own UK demo car.
My car is standard so not really a issue for me, I would just like some proof from what you stating, if you have it fair enough but lets see it.
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Thanks for the nice warm welcome and for listening to points of view different from your own one. It is good to see that input from all is welcomed and appraised constructively here rather than just ripping it to bits.
Unfortunately I do not have the time to bother engaging myself in to such trivial banter, and even if I did, I am not sure that I could be arsed as it would clearly fall on deaf ears.
What I am looking forward to however is the evidence that backs the claim that US based tuners use US code on UK cars and that this code causes premature and excessive wear on the engine. I will be forwarding this link on to Regal this afternoon and will be interested in their response.
FYI, after a quick phone call earlier, part of the initial response from Regal was "...the people saying these things no doubt very much pro Revo...". After a quick search on here, it appears that Revo is certainly the preferred option for tuning.
Nonetheless, like Dave above, my car is still standard. My aim is to find the best switchable map for my car. My reasons for having a switchable map are my own, and I don't really give a sh!t if anyone approves or disapproves of them. Yes the remap will be declared to the insurers, and no the Stealer will not know about it and the car will always be returned to the Stealer in the stock state of tune.
I am sure this post will be delicately dissected like the previous ones as part of a carefully constructed offensive, but it would perhaps be better for cards to be placed on the table with proof, facts and info rather than toys thrown out of the pram.
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I actually think that hiding it is a good policy
Why on earth do you think that! :shocked:
That statement must be THE most stupidest thing ever posted on GolfGTIforum !!! :rolleyes:
Not very good with the English language then mate?
English language may not my strongest attribute, but I don't think I'm too bad. It does, however, show you have to stoop so low to the gutter, in trying to exert your indefensable comments.
However, I am a very highly qualified Motor Vehicle Technician, and a very experienced "spanner monkey" too. So I think I'm just slightly better positioned to voice my opinion, compared to you. :smug:
I am also lead to believe other regular members of this, and other fourms, appreciate that my posts are based on valuble experience and knowledge, and that I am generally trustworthy, and don't post bollox. Or maybe my specticles are the wrong shade?
Oh, and I don't know where you got the idea from that I was your "mate"!
Well opinions are like assholes and some stink,
You should know, because it appears you like burying your head up your own ar$ehole, when you don't want to listen or accept what others have to say! :smug:
but my point was that if you don't go blowing or showing, at the very least the Stealer is not going to get a whiff of the fact the car has been played or tinkered with.
WRONG - the stealer WILL know the car has been "tampered" with. Just like the stealer will be able to detect if non-VW approved engine oil is used.
Can I suggest you remove those very restrictive blinkers you appear to be wearing. They really are only meant for creatures which have an extremely limited intelligence, such as horses.
That is worth something to a lot more than just me.
Explain.
I am going to be doing some research in to this when time allows as I am keen to map my car, but rather than deal with heresay from someone off a car forum, I would prefer to deal with fact.
So, where to you propose to get your "facts" from, then? :rolleyes:
I also plan to see what GIAC have to see about some of your comments to see if there is any truth in them.
And . . . we all await with baited breath.
Relax :grin: :grin: :grin:
Thanks for the nice warm welcome and for listening to points of view different from your own one. It is good to see that input from all is welcomed and appraised constructively here rather than just ripping it to bits.
Unfortunately I do not have the time to bother engaging myself in to such trivial banter, and even if I did, I am not sure that I could be arsed as it would clearly fall on deaf ears.
What I am looking forward to however is the evidence that backs the claim that US based tuners use US code on UK cars and that this code causes premature and excessive wear on the engine. I will be forwarding this link on to Regal this afternoon and will be interested in their response.
FYI, after a quick phone call earlier, part of the initial response from Regal was "...the people saying these things no doubt very much pro Revo...". After a quick search on here, it appears that Revo is certainly the preferred option for tuning, which is fine.
Nonetheless, like Dave above, my car is still standard. My aim is to find the best switchable map for my car. My reasons for having a switchable map are my own, and I don't really give a sh!t if anyone approves or disapproves of them. Yes the remap will be declared to the insurers, and no the Stealer will not know about it and the car will always be returned to the Stealer in the stock state of tune.
I am sure this post will be delicately dissected like the previous ones as part of a carefully constructed offensive, but it would perhaps be better for cards to be placed on the table with proof, facts and info rather than toys thrown out of the pram.
To be honest I dont really care about this topic. My father owns an oil company and knows a lot about engines etc and he stands strong with what TT posted (I showed him the thread).
Yes the remap will be declared to the insurers, and no the Stealer will not know about it and the car will always be returned to the Stealer in the stock state of tune.
I have a problem with this. Because the next possible owner who buys the car may end up with problems due to you chipping the car. Unfortunatly i feel that no matter what chip you use it still damages the engine in some way. Why be honest to the insurance company and not to the dealer?
I am sure this email will be delicately dissected like the previous ones as part of a carefully constructed offensive, but it would perhaps be better for cards to be placed on the table with proof, facts and info rather than toys thrown out of the pram.
The cards have already been placed on the table. If its facts you want then just run a search on youtube and watch a few videos. That should say enough. i seen more then one video of cars (not MK5's in specific) burst into flames or had something blow because of chips.
I dont want to be on the offensive and I am a young teenager but from what I have heard from proffesional technicians etc on this forum I would not chip my own car.
But its up to you. If you gonna get it chipped. Then yes. Revo is pretty popular. :smiley:
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Had a quick search on youtube just now and saw the old video of the MK4 GTi 1.8T with the big turbo conversion on fire, but nothing about engine wear on MK5 Golfs with tuned TFSi engines.
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Thanks for the nice warm welcome and for listening to points of view different from your own one. It is good to see that input from all is welcomed and appraised constructively here rather than just ripping it to bits.
Unfortunately I do not have the time to bother engaging myself in to such trivial banter, and even if I did, I am not sure that I could be arsed as it would clearly fall on deaf ears.
What I am looking forward to however is the evidence that backs the claim that US based tuners use US code on UK cars and that this code causes premature and excessive wear on the engine. I will be forwarding this link on to Regal this afternoon and will be interested in their response.
FYI, after a quick phone call earlier, part of the initial response from Regal was "...the people saying these things no doubt very much pro Revo...". After a quick search on here, it appears that Revo is certainly the preferred option for tuning.
Nonetheless, like Dave above, my car is still standard. My aim is to find the best switchable map for my car. My reasons for having a switchable map are my own, and I don't really give a sh!t if anyone approves or disapproves of them. Yes the remap will be declared to the insurers, and no the Stealer will not know about it and the car will always be returned to the Stealer in the stock state of tune.
I am sure this post will be delicately dissected like the previous ones as part of a carefully constructed offensive, but it would perhaps be better for cards to be placed on the table with proof, facts and info rather than toys thrown out of the pram.
....I merely challenged your attitude about hiding a remap and don't recall throwing any toys out of any prams. I would challenge anyone who expresses such attitudes as yours in the (possibly vain) hope that you might rethink as a result of it and even benefit. However, I don't think any of us here expect to agree about everything and debate is quite healthy.
I too will be interested in what Regal, as GIAC's representative, have to say, but I won't be holding my breath! My 'issue' with you is that if you have it in your character to hide a remap etc from your dealer, then what else is in your character? Besides which, for reasons already explained it simply doesn't make good sense. But each to their own and you obviously don't have to agree. :cool:
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I myself for my previous car didn't advise my VW service dept that i had a 'remap' software version done via the OBD port, I didn't kid myself that the software was inpart always there but when in for a service i would revert back to stock, giving some credit to the mech's there but i dont think they would actively go looking for signs of a map even if they knew how to.My car was obviously not OEM as there was a Milltek downpipe and system fitted which one of the mech's commented on, we got onto the subject of maps and there response was what we dont know wont hurt us.Every garage is different but i would suspect a large number of them would not look kindly on 'maps' of any kind, even if it was a revo one :wink:, but i have been fortunate not to be in the predicament when push came to shove that the dealer would back my claim up even if i had been honest with them, as all garages are with their clientel.
The current car i did disclose all my additions to the head of the service dept and i also advised i was actively seaking a remap, he did say this would def affect any warranty work as any extra power/torque would probably have an adverse affect on the car.Even though in Spain they can order a map as an optional extra!
There is also a dealer in Glasgow who's demo Seat Cupra is fitted with a Giac Map and they demo this to customers if they are inclined that way and you order this as an optional extra, also you can get leather fitted too, but they advise not to spec this from factory but instead get from a local supplier...... surely not, is that not against their franchise???
who knows but in time i will find out.
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When I picked up my white swan :smug: the dealer said straight away that they would remap the engine if I wanted to (they are ABT representatives, as well). I mentioned the insurance company, and the dealer said: "no need to mention anything to the insurance company". :lipsrsealed:
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It's more important to mention a remap to your insurance company than anything else.
Say a kid runs out and you have no way of avoiding him/her. Although you were within the speed limit etc, he's killed. But it's clearly not your fault. However, you didn't inform your insurer of your remap. You could then find yourself in very serious trouble: The police as standard procedure in a fatality may impound your car and inspect it very thoroughly. if your undeclared remap is discovered your insurance could become null and void. You could be facing some very major claims.
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It's more important to mention a remap to your insurance company than anything else.
Say a kid runs out and you have no way of avoiding him/her. Although you were within the speed limit etc, he's killed. But it's clearly not your fault. However, you didn't inform your insurer of your remap. You could then find yourself in very serious trouble: The police as standard procedure in a fatality may impound your car and inspect it very thoroughly. if your undeclared remap is discovered your insurance could become null and void. You could be facing some very major claims.
it's all about risk-return trade-offs and probabilities: do I declare remap to insurance firm and suffer immediate and continuous stream of higher insurance costs or do I take my chances. I haven't decided so far.
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It's more important to mention a remap to your insurance company than anything else.
Say a kid runs out and you have no way of avoiding him/her. Although you were within the speed limit etc, he's killed. But it's clearly not your fault. However, you didn't inform your insurer of your remap. You could then find yourself in very serious trouble: The police as standard procedure in a fatality may impound your car and inspect it very thoroughly. if your undeclared remap is discovered your insurance could become null and void. You could be facing some very major claims.
I agree you would be facing a major claim. However (and not taking any sides here!), the insurance company would still be legally obliged to cover the third party side of any claim. Fully comp. is a different matter :nerd:
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....Yes, I guessed my example might not be 100% accurate but it's just to illustrate a real possibility of what might happen if you keep information from your insurer. Any premium savings could potentially fade into utter insignificance if things went pear shaped. Personally I find it very difficult for anyone to justify hiding a mod from either their insurer or dealer/garage. To me it's a no-brainer!
On the subject of mods (what this thread is about) I have discussed in detail every mod I've thought of doing with both dealer and insurer before doing it.
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I always declare everything to my insurer as well as taking a like for like policy, Green light & Ad Flux look kindly to modified cars.
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It's more important to mention a remap to your insurance company than anything else.
Say a kid runs out and you have no way of avoiding him/her. Although you were within the speed limit etc, he's killed. But it's clearly not your fault. However, you didn't inform your insurer of your remap. You could then find yourself in very serious trouble: The police as standard procedure in a fatality may impound your car and inspect it very thoroughly. if your undeclared remap is discovered your insurance could become null and void. You could be facing some very major claims.
:nerd: Wise words them... A friend of mine fell foul to something similar which ended with him loosing his job, his car was impounded for 6 months and one failed suicide attempt (well glad he failed that :sad:)
Driving down the road happily minding his own business when a Civic TypeR pulls out on him, mate pulls round the slow moving car only to be overtaken 20 seconds later by same Civic. 2 mins down the road my mate comes round a bend to find an accident, civic had killed some old lady - several witnesses claimed my mate was racing the Civic (which didn't stop) police popped round to his house in the middle of the night, arrested him and his car was impounded for 6 months, during which time my mate was on police bail for causing death by dangerous driving, he lost his job as he couldn't drive anywhere (painter& decorator) and the stress & worry of going to prison, coupled with not being able to pay the bills etc... was too much for him to bear.
Fortunately the civic driver was found, went to court and my mate was cleared by the jury, but Imagine how much worse it could have been if his insurance was voided for not declaring something.
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It's more important to mention a remap to your insurance company than anything else.
Say a kid runs out and you have no way of avoiding him/her. Although you were within the speed limit etc, he's killed. But it's clearly not your fault. However, you didn't inform your insurer of your remap. You could then find yourself in very serious trouble: The police as standard procedure in a fatality may impound your car and inspect it very thoroughly. if your undeclared remap is discovered your insurance could become null and void. You could be facing some very major claims.
:nerd: Wise words them... A friend of mine fell foul to something similar which ended with him loosing his job, his car was impounded for 6 months and one failed suicide attempt (well glad he failed that :sad:)
Driving down the road happily minding his own business when a Civic TypeR pulls out on him, mate pulls round the slow moving car only to be overtaken 20 seconds later by same Civic. 2 mins down the road my mate comes round a bend to find an accident, civic had killed some old lady - several witnesses claimed my mate was racing the Civic (which didn't stop) police popped round to his house in the middle of the night, arrested him and his car was impounded for 6 months, during which time my mate was on police bail for causing death by dangerous driving, he lost his job as he couldn't drive anywhere (painter& decorator) and the stress & worry of going to prison, coupled with not being able to pay the bills etc... was too much for him to bear.
Fortunately the civic driver was found, went to court and my mate was cleared by the jury, but Imagine how much worse it could have been if his insurance was voided for not declaring something.
i remember you posting that end of last year / beginning of this year; what a terrible time for your mate!! Glad they caught the scum that actually caused the accident :afro: doesn't give your mate his life back so easily though :sad:
Declaring mods should be a given; for the extra price you pay in your insurance (or not depending if you shop around) gives you complete peace of mind should anything happen to your pride and joy and if you've just shelled out 20K plus on a car then you should be able to afford the insurance!!
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Not saying you should, but if your third party then you can aget way with pretty much anything as they dont give too hoots about your car. I have had several friends who have crashed their cars into other people and only been 3rd party. Insurance company didnt bother looking at their car. Could have had anything under the hood.