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Model specific boards => Golf mk4 => Topic started by: svartalf on 14 February 2004, 14:52

Title: Revo and insurance implications
Post by: svartalf on 14 February 2004, 14:52
Hi all  - first time poster so bear with me.

I've had my 150bhp gti for a year now and am thinking of going for a Revo upgrade to get some more juice out of it.  My mate with his tdi was gobsmacked after getting his done and has sold me on the idea. However, I am concerned about what my nice (!) insurance company will say.

He hasn't told his insurance company though (naughty boy) as he reckons it is undetectable (but he has a switch to put it back to stock firmware if required).

Being a law abiding kind of guy I was wondering what the insurance hit is likely to be.

Also, is it true that it is undetectable? Presumably Revo can tell what you're running so why can't the main dealers and insurance assessors?

Much obliged for any help.

Rich
Title: Re:Revo and insurance implications
Post by: red16v on 14 February 2004, 15:56
It's very easy to detect whether any VW Golf is running the factory fitted software or not. Your mate assumes that if he is involved in an accident he is going to quietly go round to the front of his car, lift the bonnet and flick a switch to turn off the Revo software - I wonder how he's going to do that from a hospital bed ? and when he comes round he'll find he had no insurance and may have damaged himself, other people and other vehicles.

I wonder, when reading the pages of this forum, why people go to the expense of spending money on a 'power enhancing upgrade' for their car but spend no money on a matching 'stopping power upgrade' and then top it off by not informing their insurance companies what they've done - they actually spend money on insurance for nothing.

As you guessed a 'favourite' topic of mine, and I assume I'll get jumped on for it. But I'm right really aren't I? Don't lie to your insurance company or don't do the upgrade. Regards, yt.
Title: Re:Revo and insurance implications
Post by: S11EPS on 14 February 2004, 16:56
^ Wise words. A lot of people on here complain about how much their insurance costs, then go and mod their car without telling anyone. This invalidates the insurance, so they're paying all that money for f*ck all!

An insurance company will use whatever they can do get out of paying a claim, so if you're running an uprated backbox and,  you're involved in an accident, chances are they won't pay if you haven' told them.

Svartalf, speak to tophuh, his 150bhp 1.8t is booked in on moday for a revo tune and exhaust. He should be able to give you the lowdown.
Title: Re:Revo and insurance implications
Post by: jv on 14 February 2004, 16:58
It's a tricky one for sure. VW themselves are getting hot on checking for ECU changes if you want warranty work done. Fair enough as well, they sold it to you with 150bhp and you break something when it has 197!

Some changes you just think, I can't be bothered to tell the insurance. I mean swapping my mk2 arches for G60 ones, only Golf geek's are ever going to notice.

I think with a big change in performance like the Revo, APR etc achieve you need to be honest. Find a good insurer and I don't think you will get too stung. You will still be smiling from the 30% power hike for 400 quid anyway!!!
Title: Re:Revo and insurance implications
Post by: svartalf on 14 February 2004, 17:22
Thanks for the advice -  it's kind of what I suspected. I only wondered as the Revo FAQ states the following which didn't really make sense to me;

=========================
Can the insurance company see that the car is modified?
Insurance companies, like dealers, use different methods of discovery when it comes to chipping. Some use dealer computers to inspect the ECU while others physically open the ECU to inspect the soldering on the chip.
In either event the software would be completely invisible.
=========================


I'm out of warrenty and use a local independent garage anyway so I'm not too concerned about VW's opinion. I just didn't know whether it was standard practice for insurance assessors to hook their laptop up if you have a prang.

I'll have a word with tophuh.

cheers,

rich
Title: Re:Revo and insurance implications
Post by: GaryM on 14 February 2004, 17:24
I have 4 Bar Revo with CAI, Full milltek exhaust, 18" RS4's and various bodykit. Im insured through Liverpool Victoria for ?860.00 fully comp with protected NCB.
They seem very mod friendly and could be a good option for a lot of people but don't chip/remap without telling your insurance company as Mk4 GTI's are renouned (sp?) for chips/remaps and it will be one of the first things an insurance assessor will check for.
Title: Re:Revo and insurance implications
Post by: red16v on 14 February 2004, 18:28

So Revo are saying

 "... In either event the software would be completely invisible..."

Speaking as a professional electronics engineer of 30 years standing, I've never heard such nonsense in all my life. If you know what's supposed to be in a chip you can tell very quickly if something else is in the chip whether it is instead of or in addition to the proper contents. Regards, yt.


Title: Re:Revo and insurance implications
Post by: GaryM on 14 February 2004, 18:32
It may be invisible to VW's diagnostic equipment but don't think for one minute it will be invisible to an Insurance assessors equipment who are looking for such things.
Title: Re:Revo and insurance implications
Post by: red16v on 14 February 2004, 18:47

Spot on GaryM. Regards, yt.
Title: Re:Revo and insurance implications
Post by: kniterider on 15 February 2004, 00:04
i agree tell your insurers EVERYTHING!!!!, i had to tell em the other week id cahnged me no plates to provate reg and they banged me ?15 admin cost!!, but they know already that i have non standard alloys, badging and suspension, it aint worth the risk when your running ?7k car+!!!!, on me mk2 the wifey insures it and theyve been told its got none tsandard alloys, lowered suspension and up rated exhaunst etc, all for ?5 extra per month!, so it aint worht the risk! tell em all!! ;D
Title: Re:Revo and insurance implications
Post by: rickardo on 15 February 2004, 07:44
Dont mean to be pidantic, but where do you draw the line with declaring mods to insurance companies.  I went to fit a rear spoiler on my mk 4 and because it was a deviation for the original manufactures spec they wouldn't entertain it (main stream insurer; Big red remote controlled phone).  Hence spoiler is still in bubble wrap in garage.  

So are the rabbit badge, fabia wiper, and wood trim (from a turbo, mines a non-t) all deamed as mods and invalidate my insurance.

If so, f@$k me, the UK is soooo Fu$ked up. ???

any advice
Title: Re:Revo and insurance implications
Post by: GaryM on 15 February 2004, 09:46
I suppose anything that makes your car look like something it isnt - ie adding a GTI badge, smoked rear lights and clolour coding the strips to a  1.6 to make it look like a GTI is enhancing the chances of it being stolen so therefore should be declared. Performance mods should also be declared for obvious reasons.
If you are unsure then just phone your insurance company, it could save you a little heartache when you need to claim.
Title: Re:Revo and insurance implications
Post by: kniterider on 15 February 2004, 13:51
this is where the rules are strange, if u say u bought car like that and previous owner told you it was standard i dont know how youd stand
insurers will try to find any way to get out of settling a claim!! ;D
Title: Re:Revo and insurance implications
Post by: topher on 15 February 2004, 14:08
when I changed policies I was asked, and I quote: "To your knowledge are there any modifications to the vehicle ?" don't know how that'd stand up in court mind lol
Title: Re:Revo and insurance implications
Post by: svartalf on 15 February 2004, 19:52
aye -  I'm not ignorance is a defence. And if the worst happened I'm not sure I'd fancy finding out....
Title: Re:Revo and insurance implications
Post by: Terminator on 16 February 2004, 10:26
I echo what has been said about declaring mods and also what was said earlier about Liverpool Victoria. Their Website gives the impression that they will not entertain mods but they will if you phone them and providing the mods do not increase engine cc they will entertain up to ten.
Title: Re:Revo and insurance implications
Post by: svartalf on 17 February 2004, 11:34
Liverpool Victoria seem to be the one to go for. Admiral wouldn't entertain me for a bhp increase of over 25% but Liverpool Victoria were fine. All they were concerned about was whether it had the original engine or not.
Title: Re:Revo and insurance implications
Post by: papperbear on 17 February 2004, 12:54
Its not worth the heartache ....  before my mk 4 GTI T I had a BMW which was modded (full exhaust, upgraded alloys, chipped and K&N filter) and I chose not to tell my insurance company.

I was involved in a crash, which wrote the car off and I panicing for months waiting for the news from the insurance assessor.  I can tell you from experience that it's not worth the worry.   But saying that I've got the anniversay rabbit badge on the back of mine and I havent even thought that this was a mod!?!

Title: Re:Revo and insurance implications
Post by: papperbear on 17 February 2004, 12:57
.... just been thinking about this some more and I'd rather go for a car with a bigger standard BHP, ie the anniversay GTI rather than the standard if I wanted to have a more powerful car.  I know it's not a cheap alternative but legal at least.
Title: Re:Revo and insurance implications
Post by: golfvr6 on 17 February 2004, 13:01
Technically you should tell your insurance company about anything that isn't original stock parts.
That means if you change your suspension for a new even standard suspension from say GSF then you could technically invalidate your insurance.
Isn't that right red16v?
Title: Re:Revo and insurance implications
Post by: GaryM on 17 February 2004, 19:27
.... just been thinking about this some more and I'd rather go for a car with a bigger standard BHP, ie the anniversay GTI rather than the standard if I wanted to have a more powerful car.  I know it's not a cheap alternative but legal at least.

I have the 180bhp engine and its not fast enough, trust me!
With my Revo remap and all my other mods I am anticipating 240bhp and around 265ft/lbs or torque and its still not fast enough  ;)
Title: Re:Revo and insurance implications
Post by: red16v on 18 February 2004, 20:47

Hi Golfvr6,

Yes I would think you are right. From my own conversations with insurance agents the only common point seems to be that 'yes' they are interested in any modification to a standard car but it is only modifications that increase the output power of the engine or affect the roadholding of the car that is likely to lead to any increase in premium. It's obvious to say it, but a modification to improve say the braking performance of the car (say fitting ventilated disks in place of non-ventilated disks) would not in itself warrant an increase in premium - for obvious reasons. On those rare occasions when I change my insurance company I always declare everything that I believe to be non-standard and make a note of the time that telephone conversation finished (on the basis that with some insurance companies all these calls are recorded and archived, you can subsequently refer to what you pointed out during the conversation if it is disputed). Regards, yt.
Title: Re: Revo and insurance implications
Post by: noobdubber on 11 June 2005, 15:47
Liverpool and victoria just quoted me £1883-WITHOUT ANY MODS!!!!!!!!!!!
would hate to think with mods!
Title: Re: Revo and insurance implications
Post by: GotaGTI on 11 June 2005, 16:57
Is the Revo remap electronicly date stamped ?


Will a free 5 Hr trial show up on Diagnostics  ?

Title: Re: Revo and insurance implications
Post by: noobdubber on 11 June 2005, 17:47
Just on my trial now. The revo trial stays on the ECU forever!!!!
wouldnt mind knowing myself if its date stamped, but you can get the ecu wiped and re-flashed with the original settings by the revo dealer.
Title: Re: Revo and insurance implications
Post by: Ivor Mk4 Turbo on 12 June 2005, 12:11
Last year, my mate had his remapped (Jabbasport 150 > 211 bhp) Mk4 T wrote off. He never told his ins. co., they didn't notice & he received a full payout.
Title: Re: Revo and insurance implications
Post by: noobdubber on 12 June 2005, 13:27
My insurance company wants an extra £760 a year just for the phase 1 revo?
wish I'd never phoned them and asked now, now they know Imight be getting it done, if I write it off, It'll be one of the first things they'll check
Title: Re: Revo and insurance implications
Post by: akz786 on 12 June 2005, 13:52
hi guys being a law student there is always clause to what you can and cannot legally. Your insurance company is not there to catch out but there to help you with regards to the third party.they are all letigation experts who know the law but will not pay out if you have like a 1.6 golf with a GTi engine inside it!..after all they are in the business to make money not to catch you out. Its simple when you get your quote....answer the questions they ask..to the best of your knowledge and then dont worry..the only insurance companys to worry about are the specialist brokers who know abouts mods and VW specialists...there you can state things like remap...to be honest someone like more than insurance may not even know what a remap is!