GolfGTIforum.co.uk
Model specific boards => Golf mk3 => Topic started by: Rideandy on 25 March 2007, 18:52
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I got the double flash on the 7th feb and yesterday the letter form the law landed on my door step!
I was told that they had to send it out within 2 weeks, otherwise they cant do you!!Is this right??
At the time I was driving with a non updated Origin B2, won't be doing that again!
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origin B2, i may be being blonde, but whats that?!
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Andy, how many people do you have insured on your car.
Reason I ask, my mate has his mum, dad, girlfriend and him on his car. He got flashed and said he ddnt know who was driving at the time and go away with it.
God knows if they have 2 weeks, my missus said she got flashed about 2 months ago and is still insisting a noice is on its way.
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and this may be worth a read.
http://www.abd.org.uk/defence.htm
and this below from here... agreed from the mirror but still!
http://www.sundaymirror.co.uk/motoring/tm_headline=i-ll-fight-for-you-&method=full&objectid=18046659&siteid=62484-name_page.html
DID YOU KNOW
YOU can now be chased for speeding or parking tickets in most of Europe.
30 SPEEDING FINES
IT'S vital to check that the evidence against you is legally valid. Always ask police for photographic evidence of the alleged offence if they fail to provide it. Each year thousands of cases collapse when the police fail to provide a photo.
All camera-generated speeding fines have a 14-day time limit. The Notice of Intended Prosecution (NIP) must be received within two weeks of the alleged offence. If it isn't, the case can be dismissed. This is the first form sent by police saying that they plan court action. Alert your lawyer if it is not received within two weeks. Otherwise the case will collapse in court or be dismissed by prosecutors.
Check if the speed camera has been officially approved for operation at the site involved. Check with the police or Home Office, or ask your lawyer to check it out. If requested, the prosecutor must send written proof that the camera has been authorised for use on that road.
THE law says you are obliged to provide details of the driver who committed the alleged offence. If more than one person is insured to drive the vehicle and you can't remember who was driving it at the time, it is up to the police to prove who was behind the wheel. If you genuinely can't remember who was driving, you must say so, and it is then up to the police to prove a case against one individual or another.
DID YOU KNOW
ONLY four in 10 speed cameras in Britain are actively working at any one time, say anti-camera campaigners.
Also one of my friends has twice, yes twice got away without even going to court with the defense that... when he was a kid, to rob petrol from garages, they used to look for similar cars, get the reg plate, make a fake one, put the fake plate on their car and they had free petrol, thats what MUST have happened to you?!
Dont stand for it.
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Andy, how many people do you have insured on your car.
Reason I ask, my mate has his mum, dad, girlfriend and him on his car. He got flashed and said he ddnt know who was driving at the time and go away with it.
this defence is mentioned in the first link of my post, very clever how and why it works!
does depend how much you were speeding though, may be better off taking it than using this form of defense, you can get charged with failing to supply info even though you could just persistantly claim ignorance, this charge will be less than a ban but more than the usual 60 quid and 3 points. get out of it all together like my mate did.
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I think my mate mentioned something about asking for a pic and thats why nothing happened.
(difficult to remember the conversation exactly as we were on the beers at the time)
Seems the key to success is insure as many people on your car as you can, then two fingers up to all speed cameras :laugh:
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if you read the link it explains exactly why it works, it because basically they cannot force you to confess.
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Tom, its a speed camera detector. Thanks alot for the links and info, I will defo ask for proof,just to try and get out of it, I really don't want the points!Love the petrol story might have to use that!
Thanks again.
Patch, I am the only driver on my motor. Thanks for the help mate.
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Andy, one final suggestion. If the points are going to cause major hassle, if all else fails and someone in your family, partner is fully comp ask them to take the points.
My neighbour had 9 points and got flashed and her girlfriend took them for her, better than her losing her licence.
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just claim ignorance, they cannot prove it was you or that you knew who, how could they! if it comes to it like it says in that link even a duty brief will tell you they have to prove it or your innocent. and they cant! the only way they can prove it is with one of those new bloody no flash cameras that take a pic of your face, they are catching on to this loophole! ive been done, 46 in a 40, no hazards nothing, straight road, no reason for the camera at all. I hate it. my other friend got done by a hiding copper down an alley with a laser gun around town, another copper pulled him about 200 yrds down, they cant do that either, by law, he paid it though, and took the points, fool.
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Yeah your right I will fight this one.I have been passed this camera when the detector has been updated and it never beeped, so I was well gutted when it flashed me only doing 85 (I had dropped off my kids and just wanted to get home so was kind of slow for me) thanks for the advice mate.
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I got off one stating it must have been a "cloned" car as I was nowhere near that place at the time!
This defense works for any speed camera - unless they have a photo of you that is recognisable as you driving your car at the time of the alleged offense then they cant prove it!
Everybody should fight these unjust stealth tax gathering machines!
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Nice one Len.
I wrote to the the law today stating that I was no where near cambridge at the time.
Also I got it wrong the date of the ticket was the 7th Jan and not the 7th feb as I posted, nearly 3 months!!
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Even the Transport Minister stated this on Top Gear! He said no photo of me then no fine!
So if a Minster of our fantastic government is willing to say that on TV then why are they still charging everyone?
Uruk Hai is the one to ask about dates - think he said 28 days max!
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Thanks again Len
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send a PM to Uruk hai he's a good guy, he just happens to work in the Courts! :grin: he will give ya the info on dates.
When I did mine I first asked to see the photos their camera took, then they asked to see photos of the back of my car, so I changed a few things like rear light clusters and took stickers out the back window. And I then said well I can see at least 3 differences in the two photos!
And that was that they caved in and said they were dropping it!
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Very devious Len, I like it :evil:
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well generally I am a stand up law abiding citizen, but these traps are just money making/hit the motorist nonsense.
No you shouldnt speed in built up areas especially near scholls etc. But my "offense" was in the middle of nowhere and only just over the limit. So I did all I could to get out of it. And its not really the £60 but the points!
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Thanks again len I have also pmed Uruk Hai.
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Totally agree Len, most cameras are plain and simple money making machines.
Example, my missus had her Polo written off when it was parked up for the night. The person who hit it drove off without leaving any details. We live just up from a school, the person who hit her car was doing easy over 50mph in a 20 school zone ! Loads of people regularly speed up and down this road.
Have the police put a camera or the council put sleeping policemen in to slow people down - No. But they will happily stick a camera up on a road with no accident problem and nick people doing a couple of mph over the limit. What a joke.
FYI - the missus was only 3rd party so she wasnt covered. The police couldnt prove anything on the person who did it even though we gave them the registration number etc. A 3 grand car reduced to scrap in a minute.
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Everybody should challenge every single event. Innocent until proven guilty and they cant prove it was you!
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Your right ,now where is that spare tyre and gallon of petrol :grin:
Sorry to hear about your missus patch,find out where they live and pay them a visit! :angry:
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No need to go that drastic mate! :laugh:
But then I feel like getting a JCB and flattening the lot!!!
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Andy, the copper's told us where she lives - yes it was a woman driving the car that wrote off my missus's Polo or so the coppers said.
FYI, this is the best bit. The coppers said they wanted to prosecute her not for writing off the car but for the fact she was rude and snotty to them when they interviewed her ! Priceless :laugh:
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Patch thats unreal mate.
Makes it a bit different being a woman!
My mate had ACAB on his knuckles, i can see why. :angry:
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go on then ACAB? why? im prob being blonde, no offence to blonds, my missis is, shes not stupid, hmmm i should think about that statement!!! MY missis, NOT stupid, ha!
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All coppers are bastards! :grin:
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Not possible! My Dad was a copper! A very long time ago though when he could clip a kid round the ear etc. :laugh:
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Not the same anymore Len! :sad:
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This defense works for any speed camera - unless they have a photo of you that is recognisable as you driving your car at the time of the alleged offense then they cant prove it!
no it doesn't.
andy, patch etc, don't disagree with the sentiment but at the end of the day, are you guilty? ie were you speeding?
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jv , as said I am guilty,but just p*ssed off that it took nearly 3 months to come through and I am now looking for away to get out of it, if poss!
Open road, no traffic!
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i didn't read that quite correctly. is it cambs police?
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Yeah, your manor!
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what about this, get home tonight and have a new speed ticket from the same place but 21 days later!!!!! at the same time(I think 1st ticket at work) they have f*cked up surely
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so 2 tickets with a Jan date on them and you only just got them? well for starters if you hadn't responded within x (30?) days you would have had a follow up - that you also haven't got. all gone a bit wrong there.... i'll try and find out more tomorrow for you :)
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just to throw a spanner in the works here.
a few months ago my brother got caught speeding in a temp speed zone on a dual carriage way.
my dad and mum are also insured on the car, and no photo could be provided showing who was driving.
they tried this 'proove who is driving' lark, and no one took responsibility for it, as they couldnt proove who was driving.
did it work?
no... my bro still ended up with 3 points, so that plan doesnt always work and shouldnt be relied apon :cry:
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The only way you can get out of it that way mase is if the vehicle is registered to a Limited Company. There was a famous case of a Man Utd car where they refused to name the driver.
In your case mase it was obviously one of 3 and they will always go for one of those!
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1st ticket I hold my hands up to (07-01-07 at 14.07pm) the 2nd ticket which I received yesterday was defo not me they are saying the same camera got me on 29-01-07 at 14.09pm doing the same speed!!! :angry:
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The only way you can get out of it that way mase is if the vehicle is registered to a Limited Company. There was a famous case of a Man Utd car where they refused to name the driver.
In your case mase it was obviously one of 3 and they will always go for one of those!
thats tru... my uncle has gotten off speeding tickets for that very reason.
my old man is an avid reader of MCN, and they were saying there is some sort of loop hole involving cars which are insured to both a husband and wife, something about the police not bein able to make them testify against each other if they both deny driving... cant remember the exact details tho. but im sure there are loop holes and ways u can get out of them if the circumstances are correct.
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Andy - are these things you have just received the actual Notice Of Intended Prosecution? There is a 14 day time gap in which the incident can take place and the *registered owner* of the car receiving the NOIP. It is highly unlikely you have been sent these over 2 months late - they will have just cancelled them because they aren't valid anyway. However, if you have just received a chase letter then the 14 days is out of the window and there is a 12 month time period in place. Could the original NOIP have gone to the previous registered owner? Or have you not updated your V5 details? You should certainly question the evidence and take a trip down to Huntingdon to see the details.
FYI - the registered owner has to provide details on who was driving - not the Police prove who it was.
The Limited Company thing is also bollox. If it comes to it the MD will get the fine and points or the business a hefty fine for not keeping acurate records if it was a 'pool' vehicle.
:)
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jv ,Thanks, not sure if they are NOIP or not but its the 1st notices that I have been given.I will double check tomorrow as they are at work.
V5 details were updated early last year!
Cheers.
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sorry but if they cant prove it they cant just prosecute whoever they want, it doesnt work like that at all, and as for the husband and wife thing, they cant force you to testify against anybody ( including yourself thats the whole point!), you dont have to say a single word, but can then be faced with further charges ( like obstruction ). Unless they can prove you have done something, or if there is a jury ( in crown court i think )they may decide you did by your silence, they cant just throw prosecutions for things individuals havent done. dont get me wrong, im not saying they dont do it, they will get away with it for as long as fools keep accepting it.
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Cheers mate