GolfGTIforum.co.uk
Model specific boards => Golf mk2 => Topic started by: jaybv6 on 17 February 2007, 22:48
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Car - 88 GTi 8v PB
I finally got round to starting up my Golf today except that it won't. All leads and earths are in place. Removed the coil lead to the dizzy and cranked it over a few times to build up some oil pressure. I then reconnected the Coil lead to the Dizzy and fired up the car. It cranks over but no joy in starting. Removed a spark plug and cranked it over, there is a spark.
Have checked the timing and all is ok. Removed the inlet fuel hose and cranked it over, pump primes and fuel comes out of the hose. I drained the fuel from the tank as it was stale. Replaced fuel with the finest unleaded. Cranked it over, nothing. I tried to bridge the relay (number 2) for the fuel pump but it primes but then stops (I thought bridging it out would make it run constantly).
As the car started before I removed the head I'm at a loss as to why it won't start. The only 2 things that I've change from the original setup are the fuel injectors and the AFM (as it was attached to the Induction kit I bought). I'll give my original AFM a try in the morning and I'm sure the injectors are ok as there is fuel on the spark plugs when I remove them.
Have you any ideas what else may be causing the car to start? Any help or thoughts are appreciated.
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It does sound electrical. One of the sensors has a dodgy connection or there is a wire off. You say you have replaced the injectors? Have you replaced them with the same part number?
Also check your cam timing again. That job is a bugger. Either you get it first time and its the simplest thing in the world, or you end up farting about for hours with no results.
But go round all the connections first, starting with the water sensors.
One other thing. On the end of the injector rail is a screw plug. This is where you plug in a fuel pressure guage to check your injector pressure. Remove it and make sure that when you crank the engine, fuel comes out of it. This will get rid of any air locks. Then refit it and have another go.
I am not that au fait with these engines yet, but these are the things I would check first if I had your problems. Hope this helps. Good luck. :smiley:
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i know this may sound silly but have you checked the plugs :wink:
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Plugs are new :wink:
Cam timing is spot on. I'll check all the electrical connections again and see if anything is loose etc.
Water temp sensor is also new.
Injector have been checked and they are the right part number, they've also been confirmed as working hence I know that it may not be the injectors. Would a faulty MAF cause this issue?
Thanks for your help ;)
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Have you done a compression test? may need a tow start to fill cam followers with oil
Tom
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It could be the MAF, but if it was working before, it should work now. Try borrowing another from a mate.
Thom 89's suggestion could also be a possibility, although if the tappets were collapsed, you should still get a fire. Same as for if the tappets were overfull of oil. Well worth a tow round the block though, in gear.
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Cheers
The Tappets are new. I made sure to fill them with oil when fitting them but most of that has probably run out. Have tried a different MAF that's known to work and still the same. I'll try the tow thing with the old girl in gear.
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I had to tow my valver to get it going after new head rings and shells, after a couple of tows to get it going it then started to fire on the starter!
give it a go :wink:
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Is that normal then after fitting major engine components? I mean to build the pressure up? I removed the coil and cranked the engine for 10 seconds or so to do this but was unaware that it may need something more. It would defintely explain why it's having problems starting.
I'm going to do a compression test sometime this week.
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Have you checked the dizzy timing, the dizzy will spin freely once the belt is off :)
Edit: pressue should build up very quickly, I replaced the entire engine on my digifant and it didn't take long on the starter for it to fire. Also, does the pump prime when you turn the key 1 click?
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John,
Dizzy timing is spot on. Pump primes and fuel is being pumped into the cylinders. However I think that it's pumping it through too quick as the fuel is just coming out of the exhaust.
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sure the timing isnt 180 degrees out? If the pump is priming then the ecu is working, do you have a spark?
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sure the timing isnt 180 degrees out? If the pump is priming then the ecu is working, do you have a spark?
Yes, cam lined up correctly, spark is being produced and when timing is set to fire on cylinder 1 the dizzy is in the right place. I'll check again though.
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has the blue sender been replaced?
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i had the same problem with mine. this happend twice!
was the ignition moduel that sits ontop of the ecu.
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has the blue sender been replaced?
Yes, blue sender is brand new.
i had the same problem with mine. this happend twice!
was the ignition moduel that sits ontop of the ecu.
Can you please be a bit more specific? Dis you get a spark and was it turning your engine over? Mine sparks and turns over but the fuel just isn't igniting. It worked fine before the head removal.
The only thing that has changed is that I've removed the head, refitted the new head gasket and changed the injectors. I'm planning to attach my old injectors (one was split) to just rule out the new ones having a higher flow rate. Fingers crossed.
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HT leads on the plugs in the right order?
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HT leads on the plugs in the right order?
Yup, labelled them before taking them off :wink:.
Firing order is correct and I get a spark but fuel is not igniting. Stale fuel removed and fresh stuff put in just in case but nothing.
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its gotta be a weak spark, or low compression if you've got fuel and the pump isn't just running continuously...
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whats the compression. after i refitted the head on my mums 206, it took about 1 hour of solid cranking for the pressure to build back up from 8 Bar to 14 Bar. make sure the injectors are firing properly - take them out and point them into a bucket and watch them fire.
double check the timing is 100%, its easy to be a tooth out when tensioning, although it should start, other culmulitive factors may have a funny effect.
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Was the head refurbed or just taken from another car?? What made you change it in the 1st place?? Im not sure what your problem is but im about to attempt my 1st head change & will follow this post if I run into similar problems.
A while ago mine didnt fire up - just stopped one morning. I just stripped out every ignition parts & earth contacts & gave the contacts the best clean they have ever seen & it jumped into life 1st turn. I would go over them again just to be sure as I was going nuts for a few days thinking all sorts!!
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my m8 had the same symptoms when he had his head rebuilt.
we checked the ecu, injectors timing, spark the lot.
the fault was that the cambelt pulley had been fitted back to front.
once turned around the car was sweet as a nut.
may be worth checking it out.
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my m8 had the same symptoms when he had his head rebuilt.
we checked the ecu, injectors timing, spark the lot.
the fault was that the cambelt pulley had been fitted back to front.
once turned around the car was sweet as a nut.
may be worth checking it out.
Already checked as the timing mark on the inside face of the cambelt pulley is visible. I initially fitted it the wrong way round and when I could not see the puch mark realised it was incorrect and corrected it :wink:. Cheers for the suggestion though.
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It's worth double checking that when the mark is lined up the #1 cams are both pointing up. But there should be a punch mark on both sides of the cam wheel, at least all the ones I've seen have...
Is there an 'OT' mark on the outside of the cam wheel, this should line up with the 'OT' mark on the top of the cambelt cover if its a later one with the 2 piece plastic cover...
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Was the head refurbed or just taken from another car?? What made you change it in the 1st place?? Im not sure what your problem is but im about to attempt my 1st head change & will follow this post if I run into similar problems.
A while ago mine didnt fire up - just stopped one morning. I just stripped out every ignition parts & earth contacts & gave the contacts the best clean they have ever seen & it jumped into life 1st turn. I would go over them again just to be sure as I was going nuts for a few days thinking all sorts!!
I had two snapped exhaust manifold studs so head removed, all studs replaced, decoked, valve stem oil seals done, Buckets replaced and then new head gaskets and seals put on when putting the head back on.
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It's worth double checking that when the mark is lined up the #1 cams are both pointing up. But there should be a punch mark on both sides of the cam wheel, at least all the ones I've seen have...
Is there an 'OT' mark on the outside of the cam wheel, this should line up with the 'OT' mark on the top of the cambelt cover if its a later one with the 2 piece plastic cover...
I'll check tonight but I am pretty sure there is only one punch mark as I fitted the cam wheel the wrong way round and we (my mate and myself) looked for the mark and could not find it. I then found it on the outside where I'd put the wheel on the wrong way round. My Cam Cover is the Metall one and not the plastic kind.
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has the blue sender been replaced?
Yes, blue sender is brand new.
i had the same problem with mine. this happend twice!
was the ignition moduel that sits ontop of the ecu.
Can you please be a bit more specific? Dis you get a spark and was it turning your engine over? Mine sparks and turns over but the fuel just isn't igniting. It worked fine before the head removal.
The only thing that has changed is that I've removed the head, refitted the new head gasket and changed the injectors. I'm planning to attach my old injectors (one was split) to just rule out the new ones having a higher flow rate. Fingers crossed.
yes mate.
Had spark, had fuel, changed the large ecu, leads were in the right order + new leads and dizzy cap fitted blaa blaa.
Turned out to be the iginition moduel that sits ontop of the ecu. Soon as i changed it, it fired up.
Happend to to 2 digi engines ive had
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Have you tried a tow start yet?
Tom
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Have you done a compression test yet?
I have a compression tester and a couple of ignition modules you could borrow...
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Have you done a compression test yet?
I have a compression tester and a couple of ignition modules you could borrow...
I'm doing a compression test this evening. I'll give you a shout John if I need to borrow an ignition module.
Would I not get a spark if the ignition module was fubar?
My plan for this evening is to disconnect the fuel pump relay. Crank the car over and build pressure up. Do a compression test and once I am happy that the compression is there then I'll reconnect the fuel pump relay and give her a go.
It might be that I've not got the pressure in the new tappets yet, possibly?
What sort of compression figure am I looking for dry and wet?
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7.5-13bar is the acceptible range, with a max. difference of 3.0bar between cylinders :)
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Result, well sort of.
Did a compression test
Cylinder 1 - 120 PSi / 8.6 bar
Cylinder 2 - 110 PSi / 7.5 bar
Cylinder 3 - 110 PSi / 7.5 bar
Cylinder 4 - 110 PSi / 7.5 bar
Good news.
I cranked it over with jump leads and not plugs in plus disconnected the fuel pump relay to build pressure up. Mainly cause I replaced the buckets and they obviously haven't got much pressure in them.
So plugs back in and fuel pump relay in. Much cranking over and nothing, nothing, nothing and then something catches :grin: and then nothing :undecided:, nothing and then the battery dies.
Over comes my mate's Galaxy and out come the Jump leads. Turn it over and it's sort of spluttering and catching and nearly going but the battery hasn't got enough juice in it and it's really trying to start. It does look like the pressure is causing it :huh:.
So I've got to charge the battery up and then give it another kick in the knackers and see if it makes a difference.
Thanks for all your help :cool: and I'll keep you all updated with the progress after I get the battery charged up.
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It sounds like you are getting there. The engine incidently should start with collapsed tappets as the valves will still be opening, albeit not as advertised. Once the engine finally does fire, don´t be alarmed at the clattering from the cam, just don´t rev it too hard. The tappets will pump up within a few seconds to about a minute.
Good luck. :wink:
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Next time your mate comes over with the jump leads, tell him to keep his car running and give it a bit of revs, so you got the power off his alternator too, for that extra bit of oomph. :) uh if you did allready - my bad. :lipsrsealed:
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Next time your mate comes over with the jump leads, tell him to keep his car running and give it a bit of revs, so you got the power off his alternator too, for that extra bit of oomph. :) uh if you did allready - my bad. :lipsrsealed:
We did do that (Mate's a porsche technician). Still battery on charge now so we'll see what happens tomorrow.
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Charged battery fitted, splugs removed and fuel pump relay removed, more oil added. Cranked it over a few times to build some more pressure up.
Reconnected everything and turned the key
:laugh: lumpy at first then it caught and turned over.
She's alive and I was able to get it off the drive and took it a few yards to make sure I could get all the gears. Back on the drive now after fitting the exhaust (sleeve and collar for the front seciton as well as clamps for the rear) and she's idling really well. Gooing to get it tuned in the week down my mates and I'm ready to get her back on the road.
Looks like it was a lack of pressure in the lifters that caused the problem with it not starting. Thanks for all your ideas and help :wink:.
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finally - well done got there in the end!
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I'm just about to go through the same thing with mine. Got the head off, sump off, oil pump out and pistons out. Hoping to put it all back together this coming week with new rings and stuff. I'll bear this thread in mind.